Wednesday, 2014-08-13

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JayFfyi; I just dropped a -2 on any remaining open ironic-specs reviews00:14
openstackgerritEllen Hui proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Make DHCP provider pluggable  https://review.openstack.org/11235100:27
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openstackgerritJosh Gachnang proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Improve IPA client library  https://review.openstack.org/11111800:28
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openstackgerritMichael Davies proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Driver merge review comments from 111425-2-3  https://review.openstack.org/11375002:14
mrdaAny Ironic eyeballs welcomed on ^^^.  These are requested changes from Nova cores to the Ironic Driver, which need to be reviewed and approved, before we can move forward in Novaland.02:18
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openstackgerritRamakrishnan G proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Mechanism to cleanup all ImageCaches  https://review.openstack.org/11056004:05
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openstackgerritRamakrishnan G proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Take iSCSI deploy out of pxe driver  https://review.openstack.org/11123205:37
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openstackgerritRakesh H S proposed a change to openstack/ironic: IPMI double bridging functionality  https://review.openstack.org/9577505:52
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dtantsurMorning Ironic06:08
ZerpexMorning :(06:09
dtantsurZerpex, morning, what happened?06:10
ZerpexNew day starts - trying to downgrade ironic :D06:11
Zerpexdtantsur: do you know which version of ironic in git is compatible with Icehouse?06:19
dtantsurZerpex, hmmm... it's hard to figure out.06:24
dtantsurlemme try06:25
dtantsurZerpex, chances are 4d4aeab4e57d623ca06bdfdceddbee2791851d03 is still compatible. I can't verify it though06:26
ZerpexI'll take a look, thanks!06:26
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ZerpexFound this commit https://github.com/openstack/ironic/commit/02417ebe8d506c1d6a0a7439e0352aed597470cf06:34
ZerpexSo I guess Ifa98e88c4c78ef904b79da57a47195344ff4b3fb will be what I need06:35
ZerpexAnd is non existing.. FML06:35
dtantsurZerpex, it's not what you need I guess06:37
dtantsurZerpex, Icehouse branch is https://github.com/openstack/ironic/tree/stable/icehouse06:38
Zerpexhttps://github.com/openstack/ironic/tree/stable/icehouse also seems like there's a stable branch for icehouse :o06:38
dtantsuryes :)06:38
Zerpexhaha nice one06:38
dtantsurZerpex, commit ID that I posted previously is my attempt to guess the last _Juno_ commit that _might_ work with Icehouse Nova06:38
dtantsurand btw things starting with I... like Ifa98e88c4c78ef904b79da57a47195344ff4b3fb are Gerrit change ID, not commit ID06:39
Zerpexohh06:40
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/python-ironicclient: Optimize get_by_instance_uuid  https://review.openstack.org/11346906:58
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Zerpexhmm, now I'm both running Ironic Icehouse + rest of openstack in Icehouse - but nova scheduler still gives http://snaps.lucasrolff.com/6a5035spaqwq8tn.png when I give it a restart :/07:07
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openstackgerritGhe Rivero proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Raise MissingParameterValue when validating glance info  https://review.openstack.org/10845607:53
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lucasagomesjroll, hey... will take a look. When you pinged me it was really late here (~1am) :( so I didn't see08:24
* lucasagomes coffee08:25
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rameshg87dtantsur, hi09:02
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GheRiveromorning all09:53
mrdaHi GheRivero09:55
lucasagomesmorning GheRivero mrda09:59
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mrdahey lucasagomes10:01
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openstackgerritRamakrishnan G proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Take iSCSI deploy out of pxe driver  https://review.openstack.org/11123210:01
dtantsurrameshg87_, hi!10:03
dtantsurGheRivero, mrda, lucasagomes, morning/evening :)10:04
rameshg87_dtantsur, ^^^10:04
rameshg87_dtantsur, hi10:04
dtantsurrameshg87_, yeah I see10:04
rameshg87_dtantsur, i think i will have to do relative import in atleast one place10:04
rameshg87_dtantsur, and delay it until the opts are loaded10:05
mrdahey dtantsur10:05
dtantsurrameshg87_, I'm a bit confused, there should be not difference between absolute and relative import10:06
dtantsurrameshg87_, also, relative imports won't work in (future) Oy3k10:06
dtantsurPy3k actually10:06
dtantsurrameshg87_, I still don't get why you can't just do 2 usual imports10:06
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dtantsurrameshg87_, but import_opt is ok, the only question is what's the problem with absolute import10:07
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mrdalucasagomes: jroll wants me to add https://review.openstack.org/108545 and https://review.openstack.org/113036 to the nova ironic patch series.  But I'm only happy to do that if a) the pass tests (jroll: :-P) and b) a few cores agree with the changes.  So if you don't mind taking a look, I think jroll would be happy.  As for me, I'll come back online in 13 hours and see where those patches are at.10:09
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rameshg87_dtantsur, sorry keeps getting disconnected10:09
lucasagomesmrda, I will take a look... if we think it's important to go in we also should check if the reviews on nova doesn't already have a +210:10
lucasagomesI wouldn't like to override reviews with a +2 :(10:10
lucasagomesI've reviewed the first patch, there's a py3 incompatible problem there10:10
mrdalucasagomes: We won't be doing that :) But I'll add them on the end of the patch series as "improvements" so as to be able to keep the +2's10:11
mrdaI don't want to make things harder, or discourage, nova reviewers10:11
lucasagomesmrda, ah, I see... isn't it something that jroll can do himself? (add to the end of the patch series)10:12
lucasagomesand that will be a review in nova10:12
dtantsurlucasagomes, +1 to having independent review in nova10:12
dtantsurthat's how we'll work in the future anyway :)10:12
lucasagomesyeah10:12
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mrdawell, deva has sworn everyone away from the proposed patches, so I'll happily do it.10:12
mrdaThat way I can keep on top of them10:12
mrda:)10:13
mrdaas in "this is the official patch series we want landed in Juno, there's no extra cruft, only what needs to be included at this time"10:13
dtantsurrameshg87_, another suggestion (not sure): can we move definitions of the options to iscsi_deploy.py without changing them (thus staying backward compatible)10:14
lucasagomesI see... well I think the cache is important, but if it's only going to be added to the end of the patch series or going to override a +2 in nova... I think we should wait the series to get merged and them we can propose it in nova directly10:14
mrdalucasagomes: then it won't land in J10:15
rameshg87_dtantsur, ah okay, still retaining the same group name ?10:15
dtantsurrameshg87_, yeah10:15
lucasagomesmrda, right... but it wouldn't anyway right? by adding it to the end I mean it's very unlikely that it's going to be merged10:15
mrdabasically, outside of what we deem as important, won't land because 3 weeks10:15
dtantsurrameshg87_, this will keep you from creating circular imports (which work, but I'd better do w/o them)10:15
rameshg87_dtantsur, devananda raised concern on requiring users to change config files10:15
mrdaI can only hope :)10:15
rameshg87_dtantsur, if we do this, that is address10:15
dtantsurrameshg87_, that won't change config, if you keep the group and name10:16
dtantsur(it will change comment in the example config, which is not relevant to backward compatibility)10:16
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lucasagomesmrda, btw, patch series #5 there's a -1 from dan about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113047/10:19
lucasagomeswhich is now merged in ironic10:19
mrdathanks lucasagomes10:19
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rameshg87dtantsur|lunch, we cannot move all definitions to iscsi_deploy.py10:42
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rameshg87dtantsur|lunch, for example image_cache_ttl and image_cache_size for now is shared between iscsi_deploy.py and pxe.py10:43
rameshg87dtantsur|lunch, so i guess we will have to import for atleast two of these at one place10:43
rameshg87dtantsur|lunch, or move all definitions to iscsi_deploy and do import from pxe. let me try that.10:44
rameshg87dtantsur|lunch, and circular import with absolution "from X import Y" doesn't seem to work10:44
rameshg87dtantsur|lunch, this fails: http://paste.openstack.org/show/94314/10:45
openstackgerritRamakrishnan G proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Take iSCSI deploy out of pxe driver  https://review.openstack.org/11123210:59
openstackgerritLucas Alvares Gomes proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Add iPXE Installation Guide documentation  https://review.openstack.org/10680911:00
openstackgerritLucas Alvares Gomes proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Add iPXE Installation Guide documentation  https://review.openstack.org/10680911:02
openstackgerritRamakrishnan G proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Add support for creating vfat disk images  https://review.openstack.org/10541311:05
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openstackgerritRamakrishnan G proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Add support for interacting with swift  https://review.openstack.org/10579511:34
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openstackgerritRamakrishnan G proposed a change to openstack/ironic: IloVirtualMediaIscsi deploy driver  https://review.openstack.org/11386512:22
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openstackgerritLucas Alvares Gomes proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Add list() to Chassis, Node, Port objects  https://review.openstack.org/11387713:14
jrollmorning ironic13:14
jroll:)13:14
jrolllucasagomes: no worries on pinging you late, I just ping people whenever, and let them deal with it when they're around :)13:15
lucasagomesjroll, :D sure13:15
jrolljust like when you ponged it was 1:30 here :P13:15
lucasagomeshah13:15
lucasagomesyeah TZ's sucks :/13:15
jrollmrda, I feel like that cache needs to land in juno... ironic is fairly unusable without it at any sort of scale13:16
jrollyep13:16
openstackgerritLucas Alvares Gomes proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Add list() to Chassis, Node, Port objects  https://review.openstack.org/11387713:18
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dtantsurjroll, morning13:27
openstackgerritLucas Alvares Gomes proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Add list() to Chassis, Node, Port objects  https://review.openstack.org/11387713:28
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jrollmorning dtantsur :)13:32
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dtantsurhey, anyone here with HP box can call `sudo ipmitool lan print`?13:52
dtantsurwe're collecting some statistics :)13:52
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openstackgerritLucas Alvares Gomes proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Add list() to Chassis, Node, Port objects  https://review.openstack.org/11387714:05
lucasagomes>.<'14:05
openstackgerritJim Rollenhagen proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Query full node details and cache  https://review.openstack.org/10854514:11
openstackgerritJim Rollenhagen proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Use cache in node_is_available()  https://review.openstack.org/11303614:11
jrolllucasagomes: ^ addressed your comments14:11
jrollnot sure yet why tempest was failing, I'll take a look a bit later14:12
lucasagomesjroll, ta much! will take a look I gotta a call pretty soon14:12
lucasagomestake a look soon*14:12
jrollno worries, I'm going to head to the office and whatnot so I'll be afk for a bit14:12
lucasagomesack14:12
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NobodyCamhappy hump day Ironic14:17
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/ironic: Raise MissingParameterValue instead of Invalid  https://review.openstack.org/10845514:19
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lucasagomesNobodyCam, morning14:24
NobodyCammorning lucasagomes :)14:24
lucasagomesNobodyCam, I was thinking about u after I saw a very weird bug ticket (not in ironic)14:24
lucasagomesI know you like odd bugs hah14:24
lucasagomeslemme find the link14:24
Shrewsomg... i totally misread that14:24
lucasagomesNobodyCam, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/255161/comments/2814:24
lucasagomescheck that out ^14:24
Shrews"NobodyCam, I was thinking about u after I saw a very weird bug"14:24
lucasagomesShrews, u too :P14:24
NobodyCamlol morning Shrews :)14:25
lucasagomeshah, I mean weird == funny :)14:25
lucasagomes"open office will never print on Tuesdays"14:25
Shrewsi read it as bug == 6 legged insect14:25
NobodyCamhahhahaha14:25
NobodyCamShrews: 6 legs much better then 814:26
NobodyCam:-p14:26
Shrewswell, yeah. one less pair of shoes to buy14:26
lucasagomesheh14:27
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Shrewswow, that is a neat bug14:28
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NobodyCamthat is a neat bug14:28
NobodyCamlol14:28
NobodyCamraining quite a lot this morning up in north WA :-p14:30
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NobodyCamlol : https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140809132357-1270637-an-honest-message-from-your-it-guy14:36
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/ironic: Mechanism to cleanup all ImageCaches  https://review.openstack.org/11056014:38
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NobodyCamrloo: do you have a second to take another look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10845615:00
rloolooking...15:00
rlooNobodyCam: so I don't understand why Ghe wants to make this one change.15:00
rlooNobodyCam: there are other places that use InvalidParameterValue too. Why just change this one?15:01
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NobodyCamlooks 108455 looks like it got the bulk of them15:01
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rlooNobodyCam: so MissingParameterValue is subclassed from InvalidParameterValue. Which means that if you use InvalidParameterValue, it is OK.15:02
NobodyCamwould you be better if there was a bug to track any reamaining ones?15:02
NobodyCamI took it as providing a clear error to the operator15:03
rlooNobodyCam: well, I'd like some consistency. I wonder whether subclassing makes things muddier.15:03
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rlooNobodyCam: I did a quick test by unsubclassing MissingParameterValue, and the unit tests failed in various places. So why just modify one of those places?15:04
rlooNobodyCam: I'm not saying that the change is wrong, I would like to understand the reasoning for that one change vs changing them all.15:05
NobodyCamI can understand that. I will see if I can get GheRivero to post a comment as to the reasoning for it15:06
rlooNobodyCam: notice that others have asked too, why he didn't make the change in 108455, and I don't see any reply.15:07
NobodyCamrloo: ya, I saw that. but when I looked 108455 had landed15:08
rlooNobodyCam: yeah, I approved 108455 today ;)15:09
NobodyCam:)15:10
dtantsurfolks, let me retry please: <dtantsur> hey, anyone here with HP box can call `sudo ipmitool lan print`?15:13
lucasagomesNobodyCam, ^15:17
lucasagomesdtantsur, maybe also some people on TripleO with access to the tripleo cloud15:17
lucasagomesdtantsur, I think they can access the boxes there15:18
NobodyCamdtantsur: I have a hp laptop with ubuntu I run that command on ... wil that work for you?15:18
lucasagomesdtantsur, check with derekh on #tripleo, he's on top of CI stuff15:18
dtantsurNobodyCam, only if it has BMC running :) likely no15:18
lucasagomesNobodyCam, I think he mean a HP iLO server15:18
NobodyCamya15:18
NobodyCam:( not me sorry :(15:19
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openstackgerritImre Farkas proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Add DracDriver and its DracPower module  https://review.openstack.org/10485015:36
openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Use valid exceptions in start_shellinabox_console  https://review.openstack.org/11393915:43
NobodyCamis there a rule about copyright dates if / when you split functions from one file to a new one.. ie do we keep the orginal copyright date, use current date, or add current to the new file so it has both?15:50
lucasagomesNobodyCam, hmm good q... I'm not sure, but I think that it would be nice to copy the copyright string as-is over to the new file15:51
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NobodyCamlucasagomes: thats what they did.. I was thinking we should add a new header for the current date too? example https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111232/9/ironic/drivers/modules/iscsi_deploy.py15:53
lucasagomesNobodyCam, hmm... well, like updating the date? if they updated the code yeah it may make sense15:54
lucasagomestho I wouldn't care much about it, this copyright lines are all optional15:55
lucasagomesand all the code belongs to the openstack foundation anyway (you signed the CLA)15:55
lucasagomesso15:55
NobodyCamya just looked odd seeing new files with old dates15:55
NobodyCam:-p15:55
NobodyCamwouldn't -1 it for that15:55
NobodyCamjust looked odd to me15:55
lucasagomesyeah, but anyway... i don't know if there's an methodology for that15:56
lucasagomesI would say that if u updated the code when moved it would makes sense to update the date15:56
lucasagomesif you just moved I would leave the date as is15:56
lucasagomesbecause git tracks content and not files anyway15:56
lucasagomesso the content is the same as when it was written15:56
NobodyCamahh good point15:56
Shrewshttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LegalIssuesFAQ#Copyright_Headers15:59
lucasagomesjroll, this is a theory... when I use the cache patch my machines won't PXE boot. And I think that's because the nova driver will update the node with the VIF information, but when it gets from the cache that info may not be there... so it fails to update neutron and the thing won't boot15:59
lucasagomesand that's my theory why the tempest is not passing15:59
NobodyCamoh great find Shrews TY15:59
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Shrewsugh. gate is amazingly unstable lately16:02
NobodyCamlately = last couple of months?16:02
NobodyCam:(16:02
Shrewswell, yesterday and today especially16:03
lucasagomesShrews, if you have time https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113276/ this is a tempest patch for the management interface stuff16:03
lucasagomesthe last one16:03
Shrewslucasagomes: looking...16:03
lucasagomesif you get a time to review it, it's quite small16:03
lucasagomesafter that we can mark the blueprint as completed16:03
rlooyuriyz: wrt your comment for 113939 -- good catch. should that be in a separate patch though?16:04
Shrewslucasagomes: bah. i thought i reviewed that yesterday? sorry, guess i got distracted and forgot to vote16:04
lucasagomesShrews, heh, thanks!16:04
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rlooyuriyz: never mind, I'm going to make the change anyway and see if anyone objects. thx!16:04
yuriyzhi rloo ok :)16:05
jrolllucasagomes: you might be right, I like that theory16:12
jrollI hate it because it means my code is wrong, but16:12
jrollya know.16:12
lucasagomesheh yeah16:13
openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Use valid exception in start_shellinabox_console  https://review.openstack.org/11393916:13
openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Use valid exception in start_shellinabox_console  https://review.openstack.org/11393916:14
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NobodyCammorning jroll :)16:20
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jrollmorning NobodyCam :)16:24
openstackgerritEllen Hui proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Make DHCP provider pluggable  https://review.openstack.org/11235116:28
devanandamornin, all16:33
NobodyCamgood morning devananda16:33
rloomorning devananda16:34
dtantsurdevananda, morning16:34
jrollmorning deva16:35
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openstackgerritLucas Alvares Gomes proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Remove objectify decorator from dbapi.update_* methods  https://review.openstack.org/11396816:41
lucasagomesdevananda, morning16:41
jrolllucasagomes: so on your theory... where does the nova driver update neutron? all of the (un)plug_vifs calls do a node.get16:47
jrollafaict16:47
lucasagomesjroll, hmm wait... the ironic nova driver doesn't update neutron it updates the nodes in ironic with the VIF infos...16:49
lucasagomesjroll, lemme try to dig more into it here, I got the env16:49
devanandanova compute makes those calls16:49
jrollyeah16:49
devanandait gets the MAC addr from ironic16:49
lucasagomesoh16:49
devanandaget_macs_for_node16:49
devanandatrace back to what calls that16:50
jrolllucasagomes: regardless, there's a node.get at the beginning of spawn()16:50
JayFWould most folks in here consider it a bug that Ironic uses power status to validate power status was changed but doesn't use get boot device similarly?16:50
jrolllucasagomes: I think there is a nova thing that does hit neutron, however16:50
* jroll digs16:50
lucasagomesdevananda, right, just to give you a context... the cache patch that jroll is working on is making my machines to fail to PXE boot, so I'm trying to look around the VIF stuff on the driver. And the theory was that the driver will update the ironic node with the VIF info, but when it gets that node again from the cache that info may not be there16:51
lucasagomesbut I'm not sure... yeah lemme dig more into it16:51
jrolllucasagomes: I'm also curious, because patch set 2 passed tempest and not a lot changed, just the refresh=True, really16:52
lucasagomesJayF, power status to validate power status?16:52
jrollalso deallocate_networks_on_reschedule landed16:52
jrolllucasagomes: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108545/2..6/ironic/nova/virt/ironic/driver.py16:52
lucasagomesJayF, setting the power/provision state is async in Ironic, where setting the boot device is not16:53
NobodyCamdevananda: got's a second to take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113750 (has three +2's) but is to nova driver so no one is +a'ing :-p16:53
devanandalucasagomes: ahh. right ...16:53
lucasagomesJayF, if we want to make it async, yeah I would think that we need a target_boot_device etc...16:53
JayFlucasagomes: Let me ask the question in a less generic way then: Is it reasonable for me to want Ironic to validate the BMC did what it said it did w/r/t setting a boot device. With power status we confirm this with a loop, by running it after we set power state, etc16:54
JayFlucasagomes: I'm seeing cases where I have a strong suspicion that something failed -- most likely in the bmc -- when setting a boot device... but with power these cases are caught because power status doesn't match what it's supposed to be16:54
lucasagomesJayF, right... well if it fails in the BMC I would expect the ipmi command to fail... but let's assume it failed but the ipmi command succeed in run, you still can do a get_boot_device() to confirm that the request device is the one set on the BMC16:55
lucasagomesnow I don't know if that should be the default behavior :/16:56
lucasagomesunless we _can't_ really trust any of the ipmi commands to say it ran successfully when it didn't16:56
JayFlucasagomes: We have a specific failure case on our BMCs where 'power off' commands can be ignored. i.e. you tell a  node to power off, and it just stays on.16:57
devanandabrb16:57
JayFThat failure case is fixed on our nodes now, but I'm just seeing behavior that makes me suspect the same could be happening with boot device16:57
JayFbut ironic doesn't check any of that right now... I think it'd certainly be interesting to make boot device state work like power state16:58
JayFwhere we know what it should be, sync it up, etc16:58
lucasagomesJayF, yeah, I think that the idea of having a fully async api in K is to make everything that talks to the BMC like the power state we have today16:58
lucasagomesall async with target states etc16:59
lucasagomesso yeah, that's urgh... BMCs seems to be super problematic and not trustable at all :( (I've almost no hands on experience with it, so it's good to have feedback from guys like u)17:01
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JayFfor most people bmc is a service of last resort17:03
JayFi.e. "man I'm glad I have this BMC so I don't have to drive to the datacenter"17:03
JayFnot people writing software suites to use them to manipulate hardware :)17:04
jrollI want opencompute hardware with an open source ilo controller17:04
lucasagomes:D17:04
lucasagomesic, so I think we should work hard on K to get the fully async API and convert everything that touches the BMC to a same/similar model of the power state stuff17:05
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jrolllucasagomes: when your servers fail to pxe, are you sure they're turning on at all?17:07
jrolllucasagomes: in CI logs I don't see a deploy request :|17:07
jrollI think it might be a resource tracker issue17:07
lucasagomesjroll, yup, it's power on with a "no more network devices" error message from pxe17:08
jrolloh hm17:08
* jroll spins up devstack17:08
lucasagomes 4     baremetalbrbm_0                running17:08
jrollcool17:08
lucasagomesvirsh output ^17:08
lucasagomesvirsh list*17:09
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* lucasagomes fetches the last version of the cache patch and re-run devstack17:12
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lucasagomesjroll, ew wait... it just PXE booted here with the last version... >.<17:22
jrollyay, transient bugs.17:22
lucasagomes:/17:22
jrollI have a new patch, we'll let tempest run on that17:22
dlaubeJayF: I'm curious about what hardware vendor/BMC you guys are using17:22
dlaubeRE "BMCs where 'power off' commands can be ignored"17:22
JayFdlaube: It's a bug in our specific revision of the ME we're using.17:23
dlaubeahh ok17:23
openstackgerritJim Rollenhagen proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Query full node details and cache  https://review.openstack.org/10854517:23
dlaubewe are about to buy some hardware and want to use ironic for our provisioning17:23
dlaubeI'm wondering if one vendor is better supported than others17:24
JayFdlaube: I would not personally speak on that, because that's not my job at Rackspace so much17:24
dlaubeor if it mainly boils down to wonky IPMI/BMC stuff between the different types of hardware out there17:24
JayFdlaube: but I will philosophically endorse the use of OpenCompute design servers17:24
NobodyCammrda: are you around?17:25
JayFPretty much. I think it's a matter of pick your quirks, not sure picking one without quirks is an option :P17:25
jrolldlaube: there's a hot new ilo driver coming down the pipe, I like that from a software standpoint but I've never used it :P17:25
dlaubegotcha17:25
dlaubeheheh17:25
jrolldlaube: most out-of-band stuff sucks, btw17:25
jrollas far as I can tell17:25
jrollbrb17:25
dlaubeI've been following this -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95775/17:26
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dlaubein hopes of using more dense hardware and controlling via BMC17:26
* lucasagomes gotta review that patch17:29
lucasagomesfrom the last review I did I think it was quite OK, so I think it may land soon in ironic17:30
lucasagomesand that's priority as well since we have a blueprint for that work17:30
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lucasagomesjroll, ohhhhh you may be right about the resource tracking man17:31
dlaubelucasagomes: that's good to hear17:32
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lucasagomesjroll, I usually kill n-cpu to speed up the resource tracking stuff17:32
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lucasagomesjroll, http://paste.openstack.org/show/94524/17:33
lucasagomesjroll, now I can see that tho my node has a valid power state (that's what the driver looks at before returning back the resources status) the tracker still reporting 0 CPUs, DISK, etc...17:33
lucasagomesthat may cause tempest to timeout17:34
NobodyCambrb17:35
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lucasagomesbrb too, it's late here... jroll I will look more into it later/tomorrow17:35
lucasagomeshave a good night everybody17:35
devanandadlaube: reviews and comments to the effect of "hey, i tested this on $my-hardware and it works" are great. so are the opposite (hey, it broke!)17:36
devanandag'night lucas!17:36
lucasagomesnight!17:36
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dlaubedevananda: I'll be sure to chime in here with some feedback once we get rolling with ironic17:38
devanandadlaube: if you dont mind, i'm curious - who do yo uwork for, and what size deployment are you expecting soon(tm)?17:39
dlaubeI sure wish there was a supported/tested hardware doc out there17:39
dlaubeworking for a small host and we are looking to get our feet wet with ironic. We've previously used homebrewed provisioning systems to interact with PXE booting, imaging servers, etc17:40
dlaubewe'll be deploying to a lab environment soonish17:40
devanandacoolness17:41
devanandafor hardware - anything with IPMI support should work17:41
devanandai'd stay away from supermicro - their IPMI security is fairly poor - if that's sometjhing you care about17:42
devanandamost major vendors should implement the common things that ironic needs17:43
dlaubesweet17:43
devanandaHP is a major contributor, so you can probably expect good hardware support (disclaimer: i work for them, too)17:43
dlaubeyeah, we are not glued to one vendor or another but we were looking at supermicro17:43
dlaubehehe, thank you for the honesty ;)17:43
devanandawatch out for their low-end stuff. anything that puts the IPMI controller on a shared data port is *bad* for security17:44
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jrolllucas-dinner: hmm, I'll check it out. thanks for the info, have a good night :)17:44
dlaubedevananda: are you referring to those boxes that only have two NICs for *everything*? As opposed to two NICs for public/private traffic and a third just dedicated for IPMI LAN ?17:47
devanandadlaube: yes17:47
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devanandadlaube: "those boxes" have a hidden MAC on the first data port, which internally maps to the IPMI controller17:48
devanandatldr; you need a dedicated IPMI LAN17:48
devanandaif the hardware doesn't support that, don't buy it17:48
jroll10:48:03             <-- | dlaube (~Adium@2601:9:6a80:3e3:d0ba:4c13:9668:ae8d) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)17:49
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/ironic: Add list() to Chassis, Node, Port objects  https://review.openstack.org/11387717:51
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NobodyCambrb ... quick walkies in the rain :-p18:14
* dlaube forgets what rain walkies feel like after moving to the bay area18:15
jrollheh18:15
jrolldlaube: you missed this:18:16
jroll10:48:19       devananda | dlaube: "those boxes" have a hidden MAC on the first data port, which internally maps to the IPMI controller18:16
jroll10:48:32       devananda | tldr; you need a dedicated IPMI LAN18:16
jroll10:48:39       devananda | if the hardware doesn't support that, don't buy it18:16
jrollsorry deva for the pings :/18:16
dlaubeahhh18:16
dlaubethank you!18:16
JayFdlaube: yeah, dedicated BMC port is one feature I'd look for, and good on deva for thinking of it when I didn't :)18:16
dlaubegood stuff18:17
jrollwho in here can get devstack cores to review things, because apparently I can't18:18
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Shrewsjroll: have you pinged people directly?18:36
Shrewsi've found general pleas for help will get ignored. you need to go right to the source18:36
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Shrewssource(s)18:37
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jrollShrews: idk who to ping :(19:12
NobodyCamjroll: https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/50,members19:13
jrollhow do you get to those groups, I can never find them :(19:13
jrollah I see19:13
* jroll bookmarks19:13
NobodyCamhttps://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/19:14
NobodyCam:)19:14
jrollnow the trick is mapping to irc nicks :P19:14
NobodyCamthats another story :-p19:15
jrollwheeee, got two19:15
jrollsdague seems to be offline19:15
jrollwhich is weir19:16
jrolld19:16
Shrewsjroll: he should be your last resort19:16
jrolloh? why?19:17
jrollShrews: he's just super busy or?19:17
ShrewsJames "sdague" Brown? Hardest working man in Openstack19:17
Shrews:)19:17
Shrewsyeah, just has his hands in everything.19:18
Shrewsbusy busy19:18
jrolllol19:18
ellenhjroll: could you take another look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112351/ when you have time?  Finally passing tests. :D19:21
jrollellenh: sure, gimme a few19:23
NobodyCamjroll: looks like a new version of 111223 was pushed up with out landing 105590 :-p19:26
jrollwtf19:33
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NobodyCam:(19:36
NobodyCamnight dtantsur|afk19:36
jrolland now it has a +219:37
jrollso mrda won't update it again19:37
jrolllovely19:37
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NobodyCam:(19:37
jrollmrda: if you change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111223/ please please please add in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10559019:37
jrollhuh, this doesn't look right :/19:38
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NobodyCammaybe more please's?19:43
jrollPLEASE19:43
jroll:P19:43
NobodyCamlol19:44
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NobodyCamGheRivero: if you get a free minute maind rebasing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10368519:47
NobodyCams/maind/mind/19:47
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Shrewsellenh: any particular reason you defined a __init__ in the dhcp base class that does nothing? i'm not seeing a need for that.19:50
Shrewsshould only need the abstract methods19:50
ellenhShrews: ah, good point.  It used to have a concrete method, i just forgot to remove __init__19:52
Shrewsellenh: :)  i left a comment19:53
ellenhShrews: thanks! :)19:53
NobodyCamoh this is a new one: http://logs.openstack.org/31/103331/3/check-tripleo/check-tripleo-ironic-undercloud-precise-nonha/ec9b74e/console.html.gz#_2014-08-08_23_58_57_53419:57
openstackgerritEllen Hui proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Make DHCP provider pluggable  https://review.openstack.org/11235120:00
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GheRiveroNobodyCam: on my way to rebase https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10368520:30
NobodyCamGheRivero: Awesome Thank you :)20:32
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NobodyCambrb20:49
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mrdaMorning Ironic!21:08
jrollmorning mrda21:10
* jroll looks around for something sharp :)21:10
mrdaorly?21:10
* mrda reads scrollback21:10
JayFjroll: point those scissors away from your monitor21:10
NobodyCamgood morning mrda21:11
NobodyCamlol21:11
NobodyCamgood afternoon JayF :)21:11
mrdahey NobodyCam21:11
mrdaLooks like my late night push wasn't quite right21:11
NobodyCammrda: I had a question but i've forgotten it now..lol :-p21:12
mrdaumm, so NobodyCam, can you please +2 +A https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10559021:12
mrdaI'll push a new 111223 this morning and include jroll's patch21:12
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NobodyCammrda: yep ..TY :)21:13
mrda(if you're happy doing so)21:13
NobodyCami think I +2'd it already21:13
mrdanah, lucas did21:13
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jrollmrda: I know there's already a +2 on whatever that's rolling into, so if you don't want to apply it that's fine21:14
NobodyCamoh I thought I did21:15
NobodyCamlet me run a recheck odd nova error in check-tripleo-ironic-undercloud-precise-nonha21:15
mrdajroll: I just want the ironic side to be up to date with what is going into Nova21:16
jrollmrda: I see21:16
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NobodyCamquick run to grab a pack of smokes... brb21:46
jrolllifeless: I think there are plenty of reasons to support "not using neutron" for dhcp :/21:52
jrolllifeless: there are deployers that choose not to use neutron21:53
jrolllifeless: there are deployers with existing dhcp infrastructure21:53
jrolletc etc21:53
lifelessjroll: thats like deployers that choose not to use keystone21:53
jrolllifeless: there are also methods of configuring a deploy ramdisk that are not dhcp-based, as well, this could support that21:53
lifelessit doesn't really make sense because they can just have a no-op keystone21:53
jrollI tend to disagree21:54
lifelessI'm fine with non-dhcp ramdisks21:54
lifelessthats orthogonal21:54
lifelessexisting dhcpservers - sure, thats where you replace the dnsmasq backend in the dhcp aagent21:54
lifelesshave the agent talk to isc-dhcp or whatever21:54
lifelessbut it doesn't make technical sense to have multiple copies of the abstraction point21:54
lifelesshell, they can deploy the neutron-server and dhcp-agent on the same machine as a conductor, write their abstraction point there, and away they go21:55
lifelessno bigger implications21:55
jrollso for people that want a single static configuration for ramdisk dhcp, they should write a no-op neutron dhcp driver?21:55
lifelesslet me check I understand the scenario21:56
lifelessdifferent l2 network for deploying vs deployed21:56
lifelessand in the deploying scenario they're happy for wildcard dhcp ?21:56
lifelesss/happy/desirous of|whatever21:57
jrollnot wildcard necessarily, but not controlled by ironic21:57
lifelessso sure, in fact they don't need to do anything special, the runtime neutron being on a different l2 network will have no impact21:57
jrollfor the deployment network, I don't want ironic to control dhcp21:58
JayFlifeless: in our case specifically; our DHCP configs are built using teh same automation from our 'cmdb' source that we use to add nodes to ironic21:58
jrolland I don't want to run neutron on that network21:58
JayFlifeless: so we aren't running wildcard dhcp fwiw21:58
lifelessjroll: right, thats what I just said21:58
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lifelessjroll: Ironic doesn't need to know that its not doing dhcp on the deployment network as we don't have any assumption about source IP address during deployment21:59
jrollso you're saying to make a bunch of api calls to neutron that don't actually affect anything21:59
lifelessjroll: they would be setting it up for deployed status21:59
lifelessjroll: which is actually important ;)22:00
jrollI'm not sure I'm grokking what you're saying here22:00
jrollironic has nothing to do with dhcp for a provisioned server22:00
lifelessjroll: sure does22:00
JayFjroll: it does for pxe nodes22:00
lifelessjroll: perhaps not in onmetal22:01
jrolloh22:01
jrollright22:01
JayFlifeless: not in ipa driver, you mean22:01
jrollso there are drivers that don't pxe boot22:01
jrollthe instance image22:01
jrollin tree22:01
lifelessJayF: IPA will need to support pxe boot too eventually22:01
jrollagree22:01
lifelessJayF: so I don't see it being a driver issue22:01
lifelessits a user choice22:01
lifelessif they supply a full disk image22:01
JayFA user should be able to choose to deploy ironic without Neutron, I fully agree :)22:01
lifelessvs a AMI/AKI/ARI tuple22:01
jrollheh22:01
jrollright, that's the main issue here22:01
jrollis that ironic should be able to be run/deployed without neutron22:02
jrollwithout nova22:02
jrollwithout keystone22:02
lifelessbut why22:02
lifelessI get without nova22:02
lifelessif you don't want quotas etc22:02
jrollbecause monolithic software sucks22:02
lifelesstotally fine22:02
jrollbecause neutron sucks22:02
JayFA secondary issue is whether or not we should spend time talking about the suitability of a feature after the spec has not only been approved, but spec approval deadline has passed :(22:02
* JayF thought we had finished with this part of the discussion and moved on to implementing things22:02
lifelessjroll: I'm not promoting monolithism22:04
lifelessjroll: I'm promoting using the API as the abstraction since thats what its *there for*22:04
lifelessjroll: rather than adding a lot of code to implement the same abstraction in Ironic22:04
jrollrequiring me to run a specific service, at all, is promoting monolithism IMO22:04
JayFrequiring me to write plugins to Neutron is promoting cruel and unusual punishment IMO ;)22:05
jrollironic should be coupled to as little software as possible22:05
lifelessjroll: APIs provide loose coupling - particularly good ones22:05
lifelessjroll: arguing that neutron sucks -> so lets help make neutron suck less22:05
jrollexcept that it becomes another service that I need to deploy, operate, and HA22:06
lifelessjroll: I know plenty of folk that would love an isc-dhcp backend for the dhcp agent22:06
jrollsure22:06
jrollI would like that as well22:06
jrollbut I wouldn't run it22:06
jrolland I don't know dhcp well enough to implement it22:06
jrolland that makes for a really bad developer of a feature22:06
lifelesswhy wouldn't you run it? I thought Rackspace had deployed Neutron now?22:06
jroll(I might run it, idk)22:07
jrollwe have22:07
jrollit's also an operational PITA for us :)22:07
lifelessso look, I'm not going to block this - if I was I would  have -2'd it.22:07
lifelessBut it doesn't make any technical sense to me.22:07
jrollsure22:08
jrollI happen to disagree and wanted to have the conversation22:08
lifelessThe broad use cases ('I want to deploy with a different infrastructure and deployer network'), 'I want a different DHCP server under the hood' etc do.22:08
jrollI do agree that it's a fine line, I think I'm just slightly on the other side22:08
lifelessMy objection is that whenever we add abstraction points that duplicate those elsewhere in OpenStack, we split effort22:08
lifelessand we end up with bloated hard to maintain software22:09
JayFI would make the exact argument against what you're advocating for :)22:09
jrollright, I see your point22:09
lifelesslike22:10
JayFThat having external services/apis adds a significant maintenance cost22:10
lifelesswe wouldn't add a thing to Ironic to teach it to create VMs22:10
openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Use valid exception in start_shellinabox_console  https://review.openstack.org/11393922:10
openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Improve exception handling in console code  https://review.openstack.org/11404622:10
lifelessnow, I think its likely an *entirely* fair argument to say that DHCP management via API would make sense as a standalone service much smaller than Neutron22:11
lifelessand I'd support ripping it out of Neutron into such a mini or even micro service.22:11
lifelessbecause Neutron is fat (as is Nova).22:12
jrollagree22:12
jrollcan I write it in twisted?22:12
lifelessthats not my call :/22:12
jrollI'm half joking22:13
openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Use valid exception in start_shellinabox_console  https://review.openstack.org/11393922:13
openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Improve exception handling in console code  https://review.openstack.org/11404622:14
NobodyCamrloo: just a commit message update for 11393922:15
rlooNobodyCam: yes, I accidentally reverted the commit msg change in 113939, so added it back again. All for a missing 'w' :-)22:16
NobodyCamlol I saw that22:16
NobodyCamhehehehe22:16
jrolluh oh, when did twisted get removed from global-requirements.txt? :(22:17
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jrolllifeless: https://github.com/psychomario/PyPXE :)22:19
jrollspecifically https://github.com/psychomario/PyPXE/blob/master/pypxe/dhcp.py22:19
lifelessjroll: cool22:20
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SpamapSWhats the word on retrying a 'deploy_failed' node?22:25
jrollSpamapS: do you really want to know? :|22:26
jrollupdate nodes set provision_state = NULL, target_provision_state = NULL where uuid = '$uuid';22:27
jrollafaik22:27
JayFs/NULL/decommissioning/ if you're running the agent and live in the future22:27
jroll-.-22:28
mrdaNobodyCam: looks like 105590 passed.  Feel free to +2 +A :)22:29
jrollwoot22:30
mrdajroll: once that process *starts* I'll push a new 11122322:31
jrollmrda: no worries, just let me know if I can help with anything22:31
jroll:)22:31
NobodyCammrda: jroll: 105590 on its way down hte pipe :)22:32
jrollwheeeeee22:32
NobodyCam:)22:33
jrollone less patch on my dashboard22:33
NobodyCamonly if it passes gate tests :-p22:33
* JayF rolls 2d622:33
NobodyCamlol22:33
JayFNot craps! Looks like we pass the gate this time22:33
NobodyCamJayF: maybe we should use 2d1022:34
mrdathanks NobodyCam - will go get you a free drink in Paris :)22:34
NobodyCamlol :)22:34
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SpamapSjroll: so.. Kilo? ;)22:38
jrollSpamapS: I hope so :(22:38
jrollthere's so many kilo specs I want to submit already22:39
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SpamapSFor now, if we fail to PXE boot a compute node.. ah so sorry user, your instance go bye bye22:40
dguerri`afkhello there! Is this: http://s27.postimg.org/3kn2i9d1u/Screen_Shot_2014_08_13_at_11_37_42_pm.jpg a known bug?22:40
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dguerriit seem my baremetal node is using more cpu than it has22:41
dguerri:)22:41
dguerriI expected the scheduler selected the second node22:42
jrollSpamapS: yes22:44
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jrolldguerri: interesting, also what dashboard is that?22:44
dguerrihorizon, from devstack (Hypervisor page)22:45
jrollah yeah22:45
dguerriactually just a portion of that...22:45
dguerri:)22:45
jrollyeah, I haven't seen that, but I doubt most folks look at their hypervisor stats for ironic nodes :)22:46
dguerrihehe22:46
dguerriI was just playing with the scheduler and I noticed that22:46
JayFcomstud: ^ didn't we see this? a node that got double-provisioned? I remember avail_ram showing up as -32GB on one of our compute nodes once22:46
jrollah yeah22:46
comstudthe -32GB is a side effect of...22:46
comstudputting a node in maintenance while it has an instance22:46
dguerriI will fill a bug report, but I would like to be sure it not.. me22:47
comstudthat's all22:47
comstudwhat happens is...22:47
jrolldguerri: it might be you, but yeah go ahead :)22:47
comstudthe driver reports the node has 0 memory22:47
comstudand nova subtracts the instance usage from that22:47
JayFhis is the opposite though22:47
JayFnova says it's provisioned 2 cpus on a node that only has 122:47
JayFso probably unrelated?22:47
comstudi have never seen that.. the resource tracker should prevent 2 instances from going to same node22:48
jrolloh, the node's properties could have changed22:48
jrollif it had 2 at provision time22:48
comstudsorry, gotta step away for a few22:48
jrolland now it has one22:48
jrolldguerri: ^^ feasible?22:48
comstudyeah, that could happen22:48
comstudmaybe22:48
SpamapSjroll: at the very least, we need to stop turning power off on a box when it errors22:48
jrollthat is a known bug22:48
SpamapSjroll: I've lost the console because of that.. so I don't even know why it failed :-P22:48
dguerrijroll nope22:48
jrollSpamapS: why, you actually want to debug things? :)22:48
mrdajroll: you should be happy now :)22:49
dguerrijroll I have created a node with 2 cpus just to try out the scheduling22:49
jrollSpamapS: I had to hot-patch that code when we initially started spinning up our environment22:49
jrollmrda: thank you!22:49
jrollmrda: I have more patches to get through, but there's a resource tracker bug in them22:49
jrollcomstud: when you're back maybe you want to help me with that ^ :)22:50
mrdajroll: 3 more commits to go to get things back to normal :-/22:50
dguerrithe problem is that the scheduler selected the wrong node..22:50
jrolldguerri: oh, are you using the exactcpufilter or whatever?22:50
dguerricould that be something wrong with the flavor I am using?22:50
jrollor that22:50
dguerriexactcpufilter !22:50
dguerriseems interesting22:51
dguerriwhat is that? :)22:51
jrollyes22:51
jrollsec :)22:51
dguerriit makes sense22:51
jrollI mean, it shouldn't choose one with not enough cores22:51
jrollbut yeah22:52
dguerrichecking...22:52
dguerrijroll do you have a link handy?22:53
comstudYeah, I was just coming back to say..22:53
jrolldguerri:22:53
jrollscheduler_available_filters=ironic.nova.scheduler.default_filters.default_filters22:53
jrollscheduler_default_filters=RetryFilter,ComputeFilter,ExactRamFilter,ExactCoreFilter22:53
comstudIf you don't ahve an ExactCoreFilter, that would also do it22:53
jrollis what's in our environment22:53
NobodyCamnice error: http://logs.openstack.org/36/96136/14/check/check-tempest-dsvm-virtual-ironic/39f6a36/console.html.gz#_2014-07-23_22_46_13_00022:54
jrollcomstud: but it looked for 2 CPUs and got one afaik22:54
jrollwhich is... odd22:54
comstudjroll: that nova.scheduler.default_filters.default_filters may only be in our branch22:54
jrollcomstud: heh22:54
jrollI was wondering, I didn't think I saw that before22:54
comstudas a hack to avoid a puppet issue we have22:54
jrollyeah22:54
* jroll looks for real ironic docs22:54
comstud[15:53:44] <jroll> scheduler_default_filters=RetryFilter,ComputeFilter,ExactRamFilter,ExactCoreFilter22:55
comstudthat's correct22:55
jrollah ok22:55
comstudif you pull the ironic stuff into the nova tree22:55
comstudand you don't have to change scheduler_available_filters22:55
comstudbut if you run with the filters out of tree, you have to modify the available filters22:55
jrollyeah, that's the problem :P22:55
comstud(which is what we do right now)22:55
comstudone may want to add the ExactDiskFilter too or whatever22:56
comstudbut it's not necessary for us.. at least atm22:56
jrollright22:56
comstudthe Ram Filter actually covers us completely22:56
comstudheh22:56
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openstackgerritGhe Rivero proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Avoid calling _parse_deploy_info twice  https://review.openstack.org/10844223:01
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openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/ironic: Allow Ironic URL from config file  https://review.openstack.org/10559023:07
NobodyCamjroll: ^^^^^23:07
JayFjroll: ^ woo23:07
mrdaglad that happened since I prposed it in the driver :P23:09
mrdaoh, btw ironic cores, can I get a +A on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113750/ ?23:10
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mrdaI'd like to propose this into nova today23:11
mrdaNobodyCam Shrews jroll23:12
mrda^^^23:12
openstackgerritGhe Rivero proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Fix tear_down a node with missing info  https://review.openstack.org/10368523:13
NobodyCammrda: +a'd23:14
NobodyCamGheRivero: Awesome TY23:14
mrdathanks NobodyCam - much appreciated!23:14
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/11405723:19
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed a change to openstack/ironic-python-agent: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/11405823:19
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jrollmotherfffffffffff23:32
jrollI found the issue with 10854523:32
jrollthe cache is populated before power state is grabbed23:32
jrollI also wonder if the resource tracker loop isn't running, or if it doesn't refresh the cache23:33
jrollI think the latter23:33
NobodyCam anyone seen this one: No distributions matching the version for oslo.config>=1.4.0.0a323:35
jrollcomstud: ^ I decided to use the refresh parameter to get_available_nodes, resource tracker loop doesn't send True for that23:36
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openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Use valid exception in start_shellinabox_console  https://review.openstack.org/11393923:37
jrollNobodyCam: yeah, upgrade your pip I think23:37
openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed a change to openstack/ironic: Improve exception handling in console code  https://review.openstack.org/11404623:37
jrollNobodyCam: and/or pass --use-wheel? iirc23:37
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jrollhmmmm, not sure how I want to work around this :|23:39
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NobodyCamjroll: upgraded from pip 1.2.1 to 1.5.6 and still have same error :(23:47
jrollNobodyCam: try with --use-wheel23:47
jrollor something like that23:47
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/ironic: Raise MissingParameterValue when validating glance info  https://review.openstack.org/10845623:49
openstackgerritA change was merged to openstack/ironic: Driver merge review comments from 111425-2-3  https://review.openstack.org/11375023:49
NobodyCamjroll: add that to pip or tox command?23:52
jrollNobodyCam: pip23:52
jrollbut not entirely sure23:52
NobodyCamoh neat... http://paste.openstack.org/show/94707/23:54
NobodyCamlooks like the py2.py3 tag is throwing me for a curve23:55
jrollNobodyCam: hrm, idk23:59
jrollprobably want to ask infra23:59

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