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| mordred | clarkb, fungi: you know - we could switch infra servers to run freebsd - it doesn't have systemd | 01:30 |
| bswartz | +1 | 01:30 |
| clarkb | mordred: or gentoo | 01:31 |
| clarkb | mordred: did you see the recent freebsd security bug? | 01:31 |
| mordred | clarkb: no, I didn't. Also, gentoo has moved to systemd | 01:32 |
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| clarkb | mordred: if you run freebsd you need to pdate your kernel and reboot, and :( I thought they were committed to openrc | 01:33 |
| mordred | clarkb: oh - my bad - they just support it | 01:33 |
| StevenK | mordred: Rargh, when did Gentoo do that? | 01:34 |
| mordred | clarkb: but openrc looks similarly extra baroque | 01:35 |
| * StevenK makes a face at the lack of good food around Sea-Tac C gates. | 01:35 | |
| dstufft | there's a good chance FreeBSD will move to something systemd or lanuchd esque | 01:36 |
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| mordred | StevenK: the good food is in the center food court | 01:36 |
| mordred | StevenK: between concourses B and C | 01:36 |
| mordred | dstufft: sigh | 01:36 |
| StevenK | The systemd guys have said they refuse to add support for non-Linux APIs | 01:36 |
| StevenK | So this might be hilarious | 01:36 |
| dstufft | hence the "esque" ;) | 01:37 |
| clarkb | mordred: you are already flying away from scale? | 01:37 |
| StevenK | If they write systemd-but-no-lennart, I'm going to sigh, and then ponder porting it. | 01:37 |
| mordred | in my talk today, I had a list of untruths that we perpetrate in the tech world | 01:37 |
| mordred | such as "mysql doesn't support transactions" | 01:37 |
| mordred | the last in the list was "sysvinit needs to be replaced" | 01:38 |
| StevenK | Bwaha | 01:38 |
| mordred | it got a positive vocal response | 01:38 |
| StevenK | mordred: "postgresql is slower than mysql" ? :-P | 01:38 |
| dstufft | I'm ok with replacing sysvinit if it means i never need to write another crappy shell script to start my services | 01:38 |
| StevenK | dstufft: You'd rather to have to write service files? | 01:38 |
| dstufft | yes | 01:38 |
| StevenK | ... | 01:38 |
| mordred | dstufft: i'd be ok with not having a shell script if I could actually simply achieve "please run this script, then start networking" | 01:39 |
| dstufft | declarative is great | 01:39 |
| dstufft | I don't care what flavor you use | 01:39 |
| dstufft | systemd, upstart, whatever | 01:39 |
| mordred | without creating 7 files with a bunch of sym links | 01:39 |
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| mordred | I find systemd and upstart to both have fine models for expressing something that I do not need to express | 01:39 |
| StevenK | Sadly, upstart seems to have lost the war. | 01:39 |
| mordred | upstart is not any better | 01:40 |
| StevenK | Well, no. | 01:40 |
| mordred | it still makes simple tasks hard | 01:40 |
| mordred | and hard tasks copletely unintelligible | 01:40 |
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| StevenK | But if your only requirement is "Boot my system, and don't make me write shell scripts to start services" then ... | 01:40 |
| dstufft | ehhh | 01:40 |
| dstufft | I find upstart things pretty easy to write :shrug: | 01:40 |
| dstufft | I've never actually written a sysvinit script, I just copy/paste one and try to adjust it until it works | 01:41 |
| dstufft | cargo culting ftw | 01:41 |
| StevenK | Unless you want it to start it before other things, but it depends on a few other things. | 01:41 |
| StevenK | Then it's *mind-bending* | 01:41 |
| StevenK | start on (local-filesystems | 01:41 |
| StevenK | and (stopped udevtrigger or container)) or runlevel [2345] or stopped networking RESULT=failed PROCESS=post-stop EXIT_STATUS=100 | 01:41 |
| bswartz | sysvinit had a good solution for that problem | 01:42 |
| mordred | yeah - I think this is why I've come to really like ansible | 01:42 |
| mordred | it turns out that listing an order of steps is very understanable | 01:42 |
| StevenK | How is that that A) readable, B) any better whatsoever? | 01:42 |
| mordred | StevenK: ++ | 01:42 |
| StevenK | *And* it still includes 55 lines of shell | 01:43 |
| StevenK | Haha. Heard in Sea-Tac: "Final chance for <name> to board flight <number> to SFO. Please run to gate C9, doors will close in one minute." | 01:45 |
| mordred | nice | 01:45 |
| StevenK | I'm tempted to hang around if they announce, "Too bad <name>, you've missed your chance!" | 01:46 |
| dstufft | StevenK: That bothers me less than a sysvinit script yes (It's quite possible I'm a wierdo though :V) but even then, if we assume for a moment that upstart and/or systemd's syntax for specifying that isn't good, I still think that line of init is better than writing a shell script and then having to go around and adjust the filenames to add some 0's or so to make sure things boot in the order you need them too | 01:47 |
| StevenK | Usually you add or minus 1 to the number | 01:48 |
| dstufft | If I'm on a dstiro that doesn't have upstart or something like it, I go and install supervisord instead to run my services so I don't have to write some sysvinit's | 01:48 |
| StevenK | If that doesn't work, add a z st the start or something | 01:48 |
| StevenK | dstufft: Pffft. Put them in /etc/inittab, and sob, like a real man. | 01:48 |
| dstufft | (I support using FreeBSD for other reasons, becuase I <3 FreeBSD) | 01:49 |
| StevenK | I'd prefer contributing to a community that doesn't flame newbies so hard they are indistinguishable from ash. | 01:50 |
| dstufft | most of my upstart files have start on/stop on's as simple as ``start on started postgresl`` or ``stop on stopping postgresql`` | 01:50 |
| dstufft | StevenK: so not LKML then? ;) | 01:51 |
| StevenK | You don't tend to see many newbies posting to LKML | 01:51 |
| dstufft | oh right, Linus just tells long term contributors they should have been aborted | 01:51 |
| StevenK | dstufft: How often do you see people who have installed Linux the day before for the first time posting to any mailing list, let alone LKML? | 01:52 |
| * StevenK goes to follow mordred's direction to some hopefully good food in Sea-Tac. | 01:53 | |
| dstufft | StevenK: dunno, I don't subscribe to any linux MLs besides debian-python and fedora-python because I avoid that community where I can | 01:54 |
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| SpamapS | StevenK: still waiting on delayed flight? | 07:25 |
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| StevenK | SpamapS: Yup | 07:29 |
| StevenK | Doesn't board until 0205 local | 07:30 |
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| SpamapS | StevenK: blech | 08:03 |
| SpamapS | StevenK: regarding neutering dh_installinit, I don't think thats what you want | 08:04 |
| SpamapS | StevenK: what you probably want is a policy-rc.d to not run things on install. | 08:04 |
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| StevenK | SpamapS: But that's up to machine we're installing onto, dh_installinit -n means it won't do it for any machine. | 08:07 |
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| StevenK | SpamapS: But I guess you know that -- given the hacks we have in TripleO that insist policy-rc.d is not enough, what are your thoughts? | 08:11 |
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| SpamapS | StevenK: -n means the init scripts don't get inserted into the normal boot sequence. | 08:19 |
| SpamapS | StevenK: if that's ok (I'm ok with that) then yeah, it's the way to go. | 08:19 |
| SpamapS | StevenK: if we want them to start on boot w/o puppet having run (that might be a mistake) then policy-rc.d is the way to go | 08:20 |
| SpamapS | (and damn the hacks. ;) | 08:20 |
| SpamapS | anyway, time for me to sleep | 08:20 |
| StevenK | SpamapS: I wish it was for me, I have another 1h40 to go until boarding. :-( | 08:20 |
| StevenK | I daresay not getting fed until 0400 | 08:21 |
| SpamapS | morganfainberg: btw, I've been poking at a thing to make broadcast work with coalsced workers as the subscribers and less chance of loss. More on Monday. :) | 08:21 |
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| StevenK | SpamapS: I'm hacking on deloran, we shall see how far I get before boarding. | 08:21 |
| SpamapS | StevenK: ugh. I always hate when they feed me not in sync with destination timezone. That will mean you're eating at like 23:00 Sydney time won't it? | 08:22 |
| StevenK | Nope, 0400 local is probably 2200 Sydney time | 08:22 |
| SpamapS | close enough | 08:22 |
| StevenK | Which is a pretty late dinner, but bareable | 08:22 |
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| SpamapS | well good luck | 08:23 |
| SpamapS | passing out in 5...4.. | 08:23 |
| StevenK | SpamapS: Haha. Sleep well. | 08:23 |
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| openstackgerrit | Max Rydahl Andersen proposed openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder: Remove nonexistent servername and cleanup build publisher https://review.openstack.org/156091 | 11:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | greghaynes proposed openstack-infra/project-config: Support custom static nameserver during build https://review.openstack.org/157554 | 15:00 |
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| SpamapS | hm | 16:14 |
| SpamapS | so playing with gear | 16:14 |
| SpamapS | not clear how to say "block until my submitted job is responded to" | 16:14 |
| openstackgerrit | Matt Riedemann proposed openstack-infra/project-config: Revert "Temporarily disable swift-dsvm-functional for Icehouse" https://review.openstack.org/158133 | 16:14 |
| SpamapS | ah I think I have to poke the connection.readPacket() calls | 16:17 |
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| TheJulia | /w/win 7 | 16:19 |
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| SpamapS | no.. that doesn't work | 16:21 |
| SpamapS | hrm | 16:21 |
| * SpamapS gives up and loops sleeping | 16:22 | |
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| clarkb | SpamapS is supposed to be async | 16:24 |
| clarkb | your client overrides the message received handler(s) | 16:25 |
| clarkb | see zuul/zuul/launchers/gearman.py | 16:25 |
| SpamapS | clarkb: I have that. but I don't know how to say "block until I got a message" | 16:25 |
| clarkb | you dont is what I am saying | 16:26 |
| SpamapS | I really do have to block. :-D | 16:26 |
| SpamapS | same way getJob blocks | 16:26 |
| SpamapS | It's not fire and forget for sync jobs. I am waiting for a response. Right now I only know how to wait by sleeping in a loop | 16:27 |
| SpamapS | I think it might just be a missing API call | 16:27 |
| SpamapS | even async things have select() :) | 16:27 |
| clarkb | submitJob can block | 16:28 |
| clarkb | but it sounds like you are just waiting for data to arrive which by default doesnt have a block here and wait iirc | 16:28 |
| SpamapS | oh hah, zuul sleeps too | 16:29 |
| SpamapS | clarkb: I may have an enhancement to gear's API once I get through this broadcaster worker thing I'm poking at. :) | 16:29 |
| clarkb | well gear doesnt coalesce so at least that :) | 16:30 |
| SpamapS | eh? | 16:30 |
| SpamapS | uniques are ignored? | 16:30 |
| clarkb | no it just wont collapse them into a boradcast | 16:31 |
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| SpamapS | it's not an easy thing to do, so I wouldn't be surprised | 16:31 |
| SpamapS | clarkb: that's the same thing. :-d | 16:31 |
| clarkb | I think the conn + uuid is the key | 16:31 |
| clarkb | no its not | 16:31 |
| SpamapS | you get one job to workers | 16:31 |
| clarkb | coalesce is racy what gear does shouldnt be | 16:31 |
| SpamapS | but then what? | 16:31 |
| SpamapS | if you only get one job to workers, then it does coalesce | 16:32 |
| SpamapS | as that is the point | 16:32 |
| SpamapS | if it has to iterate and send each client a response, that's fantastic | 16:32 |
| SpamapS | that's really multiplexing, not broadcasting in the wire-protocol sense | 16:32 |
| SpamapS | but that's how gearmand does it too | 16:32 |
| clarkb | pretty sure you get two jobs run each reported to the client | 16:33 |
| clarkb | because its conn + uuid, but its easy to test/double check | 16:33 |
| SpamapS | so there's a uuid that matches, but you get two jobs to the workers? | 16:33 |
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| clarkb | pulling up that source file on phone is sad times | 16:35 |
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| SpamapS | clarkb: no worries I'm reading it. And it doesn't break anything for what I'm doing if the server just ignores uniques across the pool of workers and only does them for each worker connection. | 16:39 |
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| clarkb | SpamapS: https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/gear/tree/gear/__init__.py#n3000 right around there | 16:41 |
| clarkb | SpamapS: notice that "unique" isn't the key used | 16:41 |
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| clarkb | its definitely part of the data, but I think the job will run as many times as you submit it | 16:42 |
| clarkb | also the function on 3025 | 16:44 |
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| SpamapS | clarkb: ah yeah, that's interesting actually. Handle should be identical on a given server for jobs with the same name+unique ... | 16:59 |
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| SpamapS | clarkb: that wouldn't be hard to change, and might not even cause issues. ;) | 17:02 |
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| mordred | SpamapS: you look to be having fun this morning! | 17:09 |
| SpamapS | mordred: I am | 17:10 |
| SpamapS | though | 17:10 |
| SpamapS | I think I just did a git checkout on the last 2 hours of work | 17:10 |
| mordred | uhoh | 17:11 |
| mordred | I hate it when I do that | 17:11 |
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| SpamapS | I was trying to git checkout blahblah.pyc so I could get rid of them | 17:12 |
| SpamapS | and tab[enter] too fast | 17:12 |
| mordred | L( | 17:12 |
| SpamapS | and of course vim is no help | 17:12 |
| SpamapS | can I reconstruct from the pyc? ;) | 17:12 |
| mordred | possibly? it's not very different from the .py ... | 17:13 |
| mordred | SpamapS: https://github.com/wibiti/uncompyle2 | 17:13 |
| SpamapS | yeah trying that now | 17:14 |
| SpamapS | also why doesn't git just stash somewhere before checkout? | 17:15 |
| SpamapS | nice | 17:17 |
| SpamapS | full recovery | 17:17 |
| SpamapS | but still wtf | 17:17 |
| SpamapS | http://paste.ubuntu.com/10359400/ | 17:17 |
| SpamapS | not an insignificant win | 17:17 |
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| SpamapS | btw this is what I've been working on | 17:24 |
| SpamapS | https://github.com/SpamapS/gearhorn | 17:24 |
| * SpamapS realizes he should have boiler plated this with the openstack boiler platey thing | 17:24 | |
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| * SpamapS finds cookiecutter in his offline memory (~/src) | 17:25 | |
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| mordred | SpamapS: hey - you know lots of things (as do you fungi if you're around...) | 17:34 |
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| mordred | I'm applying a license to some html | 17:34 |
| mordred | obviously I can put in a comment | 17:34 |
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| mordred | but is there an html meta tag that people use for such things/ | 17:34 |
| mordred | ooh - https://wiki.creativecommons.org/Extend_Metadata | 17:36 |
| SpamapS | mordred: that one :) | 17:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | Khai Do proposed openstack-infra/publications: add git logo https://review.openstack.org/158134 | 17:47 |
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| SpamapS | hm | 18:11 |
| SpamapS | why does gear force <2.0 for python-daemon | 18:11 |
| clarkb | Spamaps python-daemon 2.0 and several other relaeses after were broken | 18:13 |
| SpamapS | suck.. since it looks like 2.0 added py34 support | 18:13 |
| clarkb | you can use >=2.0.4 iirc | 18:13 |
| * SpamapS tries that | 18:16 | |
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| SpamapS | clarkb: with that, py34 fails for py34 difference reasons, so might be close to being able to py34 gate gear. :) | 18:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Russell Bryant proposed openstack-infra/project-config: Add stackforge/networking-ovn project https://review.openstack.org/158137 | 18:27 |
| openstackgerrit | yolanda.robla proposed openstack-infra/shade: Add caching interval to mutable caches https://review.openstack.org/158138 | 18:27 |
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| SpamapS | some definite weirdness in the interactions between gear and py34 | 18:37 |
| SpamapS | looks like some stuff doesn't raise OSError anymore | 18:37 |
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| SpamapS | and even more fun, now there are threads timing out that should have errored leading to about 30s before the debugger gets preempted somehow | 18:54 |
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| mordred | SpamapS: wow, you're having a fun day of hacking! | 19:08 |
| clarkb | mordred did you know jeff gordon is 6th all time in nascar laps led? | 19:09 |
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| mordred | clarkb: I did not - but it does not surprise me at all | 19:12 |
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| * dtroyer til clarkb doesn't run and hide from NASCAR broadcasts… | 19:22 | |
| clarkb | I'm bored | 19:22 |
| clarkb | its perfect boredom television | 19:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | Armando Migliaccio proposed openstack-infra/project-config: Make neutron-pylint voting again https://review.openstack.org/158144 | 21:28 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 21:29 |
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| fungi | clarkb: nascar is mildly more exciting if you remember that it descended from prohibition era bootleggers | 21:47 |
| fungi | clarkb: still not exciting enough to keep me from hating it though | 21:47 |
| fungi | growing up in nc results in overexposure to nascar | 21:47 |
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| openstackgerrit | Douglas Mendizábal proposed openstack-infra/project-config: Add a new devstack-gate job to Barbican's tests https://review.openstack.org/157607 | 22:03 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jamie Lennox proposed openstack/requirements: Update version of neutronclient https://review.openstack.org/142657 | 22:29 |
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| openstackgerrit | Clint 'SpamapS' Byrum proposed openstack-infra/gear: Raising pid of python-daemon to aid with python3 https://review.openstack.org/158146 | 22:43 |
| openstackgerrit | Clint 'SpamapS' Byrum proposed openstack-infra/gear: Resolve python3 byte/string type failures https://review.openstack.org/158147 | 22:44 |
| SpamapS | pid doh | 22:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Clint 'SpamapS' Byrum proposed openstack-infra/gear: Resolve python3 byte/string type failures https://review.openstack.org/158147 | 22:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Clint 'SpamapS' Byrum proposed openstack-infra/gear: Raising pin of python-daemon to aid with python3 https://review.openstack.org/158146 | 22:46 |
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| openstackgerrit | Clint 'SpamapS' Byrum proposed openstack-infra/project-config: Add py34 check job for gear https://review.openstack.org/158148 | 23:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Clint 'SpamapS' Byrum proposed openstack-infra/gear: Fix acl.py for py3k sort/dict_items changes https://review.openstack.org/158149 | 23:20 |
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| SpamapS | aha | 23:31 |
| SpamapS | in python2.7, b'\x00'[0] == b'\x00' | 23:31 |
| SpamapS | but in python3.4, b'\x00'[0] == int(0) | 23:31 |
| SpamapS | thats a new one on me | 23:32 |
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| dstufft | SpamapS: yea indexes a bytes preoduces int in py3 | 23:42 |
| dstufft | it's terrible, but can't be changed now | 23:42 |
| dstufft | you can do b"\x00"[0:1] to get the same behavior on both | 23:43 |
| clarkb | there is a way around that iirc, you slice or something silly | 23:43 |
| clarkb | ya | 23:43 |
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| dstufft | I think mostof python-dev realize that the new behavior is subpar, but ~backwards compat~ | 23:44 |
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