| ZZelle_ | clarkb, one is to enforce git review use (stop doing doing git push and remember git review would have been better) | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
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| ZZelle_ | clarkb, for repos where reviews is not required (mustly tools) but could be useful to discuss a new tool | 00:05 |
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| clarkb | ZZelle_: I think for both options can't you just use gitolite/gitosis and not have the overhead of a gerrit? | 00:06 |
| clarkb | ZZelle_: I guess to me gerrit is specifically about code review | 00:07 |
| clarkb | and not submitting code before it is reviewed | 00:07 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch zuul and zuul-dev to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122533 | 00:07 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch jenkins to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122893 | 00:07 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch accessbot to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122894 | 00:07 |
| clarkb | so the auto submit feels like it belongs in a non gerrit managed repo | 00:07 |
| jeblair | clarkb, nibalizer, fungi: ^ new approach | 00:07 |
| * nibalizer looks | 00:09 | |
| openstackgerrit | Ramy Asselin proposed a change to openstack-infra/devstack-gate: Add a pre-clean hook. https://review.openstack.org/122896 | 00:11 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ok 122533 lgtm | 00:11 |
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| ZZelle_ | clarkb, previously we used gitolite: some was allowed to push to master and merge branches, others only to create feature/bug branches | 00:12 |
| ZZelle_ | clarkb, it was a mess because we cannot comment correctly previous branches | 00:14 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: what does 'base' in projcet_config do? | 00:14 |
| ZZelle_ | clarkb, and XP sharing is poor | 00:14 |
| nibalizer | oh is does that | 00:14 |
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| lifeless | mordred: don't tempt me, rewriting pbr is something I'd be totally up for | 00:15 |
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| fungi | lifeless: you're saying mordred should take longer and more frequent vacations? | 00:19 |
| ZZelle_ | lifeless, if you do, please allow to disable pbr version computation ... | 00:19 |
| fungi | ZZelle_: it can already be disabled | 00:20 |
| ZZelle_ | fungi, through configuration? | 00:20 |
| fungi | ZZelle_: there are several different envvars you can pass when sdisting to hardcode versions | 00:20 |
| ZZelle_ | currently i need to trick pbr by defining a PBR_VERSION env variable ... does not really feet the descriptive setup.cfg approach | 00:21 |
| lifeless | ZZelle_: in what context are youneeded to do that ? | 00:22 |
| lifeless | ZZelle_: if its the current-tag-ignored there is a patch up and in the merge queue to fix that | 00:22 |
| lifeless | ZZelle_: is there a bug describing your issue? | 00:22 |
| lifeless | also PBR_VERSION is totally broken at the moment when installing multiple packages.... since it wins over metadata and thus we report the same version for all packages. | 00:23 |
| lifeless | fungi: no such thing ;) | 00:23 |
| ZZelle_ | lifeless, our internal process requires to provide code without versioning files and without packaging ... | 00:26 |
| ZZelle_ | lifeless, i didn't take the time to create the bug | 00:26 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: lets us work from a subdir of the project-config repo, so dev versions of files can be in the same hierarchy under dev/ | 00:27 |
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| mordred | ZZelle_: your usecase is not one pbr aims to support, sorry | 00:34 |
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| mordred | ZZelle_: there may be some workarounds I could suggest, but pbr does not intend to support being used in an infinitely flexible number of ways ... it attempts to encode and simplify one approach | 00:36 |
| lifeless | ZZelle_: so, start with a bug, and we can see whats actually happening in detail. | 00:38 |
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| lifeless | ZZelle_: as mordred says, pbr is opinionated, but if there is a way to get you what you need without compromising the pbr design/reliability/etc I'd be happy to help you design it | 00:38 |
| mordred | ++ | 00:39 |
| ZZelle_ | mordred, lifeless, pbr feets to our needs except version computation | 00:40 |
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| lifeless | ZZelle_: I have to go; please file a bug. Be specific about what you do with things and where it breaks please. | 00:40 |
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| ZZelle_ | lifeless, mordred, so our setup.py looks like http://paste.openstack.org/show/113533 | 00:42 |
| jeblair | anteaya: i'm also thiking of re-orging slave_scripts and jenkins_job_builder under jenkins/; updated etherpad again | 00:42 |
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| mordred | ZZelle_: why? | 00:43 |
| lifeless | ZZelle_: pastebin is not a bug :) | 00:43 |
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| lifeless | ZZelle_: I'm asking for a bug because - I won't remember this conversation to file one myself, I need to go, and IRC while fine for brainstorming is terrible for getting lots of input. | 00:46 |
| ZZelle_ | lifeless, will do on monday (i have no example on me :)) | 00:47 |
| ZZelle_ | mordred, mustly a creepy packaging workflow ... my team should provide deb packages to the next team but we disagree on the dependencies to embed so we provide code with the versioning files ... | 00:47 |
| ZZelle_ | s/with/without/ | 00:48 |
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| fungi | jeblair: oh, saw this earlier today and thought it might be of interest to you... https://bugs.debian.org/762152 | 01:06 |
| jeblair | fungi: oh nice! | 01:07 |
| jeblair | fungi: i guess since the "requests" issue is solved for openstack, it won't be an issue for gertty in debian if someone packages it? | 01:08 |
| fungi | the maintainers are, i think, used to having to patch out imports from embedded/vendored modules... does gertty call requests.packages.urllib3 rather than urllib3? | 01:09 |
| * fungi could just git grep his clone | 01:09 | |
| jeblair | fungi: no, it only uses the very top level requests api | 01:10 |
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| fungi | yeah, which is not a problem. it seems to also use urllib3 directly as a separate package | 01:10 |
| jeblair | fungi: i only see 'urllib' | 01:11 |
| fungi | er, yeah not urllib3 anyway | 01:11 |
| fungi | python-requests is in debian just fine, but if you try to "from requests.packages import foo" you'll have issues | 01:11 |
| jeblair | yeah, not planning on doing that | 01:12 |
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| fungi | right, that was the only real point in that nearly endless ml thread | 01:13 |
| fungi | that basically requests (when not run from distro packages anyway) calls its own copy of things like urllib3 and if you want to interact with/override aspects of those then you're stuck talking to the vendored modules rather than using separately packaged versions | 01:14 |
| jeblair | yeah. i mostly asked because if it were to present any additional difficulty to the debian maintainers, i'd be happy to drop use of requests (or help SpamapS maintain his fork), but it sounds like that's not necessary. | 01:15 |
| mordred | btw ... I think that the only value in that endless thread was to point out the ever-widening POV between devs and distros | 01:15 |
| mordred | it may come as no surprise, but I'm on the side of the requests folks here and not of debian | 01:16 |
| * jeblair wonders whether he's a dev or a distro | 01:17 | |
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| mordred | the urllib 'vendored' code inside of requests should just be seen as part of requests from debian's pov | 01:17 |
| mordred | it's not debian's job to refactor upstream software | 01:17 |
| jeblair | mordred: i think you may be correct about that. i also think that requests should not vendor urllib3. :) | 01:17 |
| mordred | jeblair: that I also agree with | 01:18 |
| mordred | jeblair: but in this case, the response to them having poor engineering choices by debian is completely bananas | 01:18 |
| mordred | jeblair: I mean, hell, things probably shouldn't be written in PHP - but debian doesn't rewrite them in another language just because of poor upstream engineering decisions | 01:18 |
| jeblair | mordred: that would be so cool if they did. | 01:19 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 01:19 |
| jeblair | itp all the php | 01:19 |
| mordred | jeblair: maybe we shoudl start a distro which does not pacakge other people's software | 01:19 |
| mordred | jeblair: but instead rewrites everything from scratch | 01:19 |
| mordred | jeblair: we could call it OSX | 01:19 |
| mordred | jeblair: so, I'm about to add trove support to ansible ... | 01:20 |
| fungi | i was gonna say NeXT | 01:20 |
| mordred | jeblair: I'm thinking I should add a list of databases to the inventory that's returned, and have them be a list of things on the "localhost" host | 01:20 |
| mordred | jeblair: since they dont' actually have cloud-level relationship with individual nodes | 01:21 |
| fungi | (well, NeXTSTEP anyway) | 01:21 |
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| jeblair | mordred: assuming everything has to be related to a host, that seems reasonable | 01:23 |
| mordred | jeblair: in the inventory, it does | 01:23 |
| jeblair | mordred: note, the thing after ansible should handle non-host things better :) | 01:23 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 01:24 |
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| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch gerrit to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122894 | 01:31 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch jenkins to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122893 | 01:31 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch zuul and zuul-dev to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122533 | 01:31 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Move zuul layout into /etc/zuul/layout https://review.openstack.org/122532 | 01:31 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch nodepool to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122902 | 01:31 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch accessbot to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122903 | 01:31 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch specs to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122904 | 01:32 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Switch gerritbot to project-config https://review.openstack.org/122905 | 01:32 |
| jeblair | so those are all the code changes; still need to update docs | 01:32 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: /me looks at etherpad to see what is new with slave_scripts and jjb | 01:36 |
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| anteaya | added a note to self there so I have the changes clear | 01:37 |
| anteaya | line 16 | 01:37 |
| jeblair | anteaya: ah, yep, sorry | 01:38 |
| anteaya | np | 01:38 |
| anteaya | so far it is all making sense | 01:38 |
| anteaya | was going to spend time getting the commands down for the re-org so thanks for doing this now | 01:38 |
| anteaya | going to spend time tomorrow getting the commands down | 01:39 |
| jeblair | sounds good, and no problem | 01:39 |
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| mordred | SlickNik: ok. you just made my naughty list | 01:40 |
| mordred | SlickNik: self.cs = client.Client(options.os_database_api_version, os_username, | 01:41 |
| mordred | SlickNik: I'll let you ruminate on what's wrong in that signature | 01:41 |
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| mordred | SlickNik: (I'll give you a friendly hint - your python API requires, same as glanceclient, which I blame jaypipes for, an API_VERSION parameter ... except that as a user I have no way of knowing in advance what that might be | 01:44 |
| mordred | ) | 01:44 |
| jeblair | mordred: start at 11 and count backwards until something works | 01:45 |
| mordred | SlickNik: I recommend, fwiw, that such a thing be an OPTIONAL parameter, and that in the absence of one, the keystone service catalog is consulted and a version is selected taht the library knows how to talk to | 01:45 |
| mordred | jeblair: well, it turns out that not only is it a required parameter, there is one and only one valid value | 01:45 |
| mordred | jeblair: '1' | 01:45 |
| jeblair | mordred: see my algorithm would have worked | 01:46 |
| mordred | jeblair: yes. it would have | 01:46 |
| mordred | jeblair: I may implement it for trove and glance | 01:46 |
| jeblair | haha | 01:46 |
| mordred | SlickNik: also, don't feel _personally_ bad or singled out - I'm on a campaign of complaining about EVERY problem I encounter while trying to write software to use openstack | 01:46 |
| mordred | SlickNik: but I will be beating you with something next time I see you | 01:47 |
| mordred | just for good measure | 01:47 |
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| * anteaya hands mordred a pillow | 01:48 | |
| jeblair | mordred: check out this doc update diff: | 01:49 |
| jeblair | -In order to make the process of managing hundreds of Jenkins jobs easier | 01:49 |
| jeblair | +In order to make the process of managing thousands of Jenkins jobs easier | 01:49 |
| jeblair | you know, it's important to keep these things up to date ;) | 01:50 |
| mordred | jeblair: NICE | 01:51 |
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| mordred | jeblair: I have emailed the dev list about the above client lib issue | 01:53 |
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| mordred | jeblair: for completeness, I blamed bcwaldon, since he's abandoned us | 01:53 |
| jeblair | there's enough blame to go around | 01:53 |
| mordred | also | 01:55 |
| mordred | this: | 01:55 |
| mordred | except exc.Unauthorized: | 01:55 |
| mordred | raise exc.CommandError("Invalid OpenStack Trove credentials.") | 01:55 |
| mordred | except exc.AuthorizationFailure: | 01:55 |
| mordred | raise exc.CommandError("Unable to authorize user") | 01:55 |
| mordred | would be funny | 01:55 |
| mordred | if it wasn't a completely pervassive pattern that's actually encoded into openstack.common | 01:55 |
| mordred | please. someone. explain the difference | 01:55 |
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| nibalizer | maybe like 'i know you, but you're not allowed' but the other is 'i dont know you' | 01:57 |
| mordred | nibalizer: isn't splitting the two a security anti-pattern? | 01:57 |
| blkperl | yes | 01:57 |
| nibalizer | mordred: thats an affirmative | 01:57 |
| mordred | nibalizer: like, isn't it a 30 year old industry best practice to not report back to the user the difference? | 01:58 |
| * mordred stabs people | 01:58 | |
| nibalizer | mordred: no the 30 year best practice is ldap creds into plain http | 01:58 |
| jeblair | i'm hoping it's "your username or credentials are wrong" vs "i am unable to complete a request with the server" | 01:58 |
| nibalizer | this being despite http is not 30 years old | 01:58 |
| jeblair | i have no basis for that hope | 01:58 |
| mordred | well, it gets better | 01:58 |
| mordred | there is also "Forbidden" | 01:59 |
| jeblair | "account disabled?" (he says hopefully) | 01:59 |
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| mordred | so - it seems that Unauthorized == 401, Forbidden == 403 and AuthorizationFailure == "Cannot authorize API client." | 01:59 |
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| mordred | that's from reading the code in openstack/common/apiclient/exceptions.py | 02:00 |
| nibalizer | one of these things is not like the other | 02:00 |
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| mordred | second mailing list message away | 02:01 |
| mordred | I may have insulted termie in this one | 02:02 |
| mtreinish | mordred: just saw that ml post. It get's worse the more you look at the version or any discovery options in the apis, nothing is consistent between anything: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/tempest/tree/tempest/cmd/verify_tempest_config.py | 02:02 |
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| dstufft | mordred: what if I like to make dolphens weep tho | 02:02 |
| mordred | mtreinish: I cannot continue to read that code | 02:02 |
| clarkb | dolphins are cool | 02:02 |
| clarkb | leave them alone | 02:02 |
| mordred | dstufft: then please write more code in python-*client | 02:02 |
| clarkb | jeblair nibalizer has pictures of whiteboards for you | 02:03 |
| nibalizer | we took pix! | 02:03 |
| mordred | clarkb: oh my | 02:03 |
| mordred | clarkb: what did you whiteboard? | 02:03 |
| clarkb | mordred nibalizer insisted I listen to how we should puppet and that required drawinf | 02:03 |
| mordred | clarkb: ah! fun | 02:03 |
| clarkb | its actually good byt I think orthogonal to the config file split thing | 02:04 |
| clarkb | so we can deal with it separately | 02:04 |
| mordred | cool | 02:04 |
| nibalizer | yup | 02:04 |
| jeblair | baby steps is the way to do this :) | 02:04 |
| clarkb | nibalizer imgur them now | 02:04 |
| anteaya | clarkb: so are nibalizer's thoughts captured in a spec yet? | 02:05 |
| anteaya | or is that a todo item? | 02:05 |
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| clarkb | it was marker on wall a half hour ago | 02:08 |
| anteaya | k | 02:09 |
| clarkb | jeblair yup completely agree | 02:11 |
| mordred | nibalizer: do you still need more grokking on the ansible+puppet apply idea? | 02:12 |
| mordred | nibalizer: (trying to decide which thigns need more explanation and which just need patches) | 02:12 |
| nibalizer | mordred: eh, my brain is elsewhere right now | 02:12 |
| nibalizer | lets link up, but not right now | 02:12 |
| mordred | nibalizer: ok. we'll come back to it | 02:12 |
| mordred | nibalizer: is you brain in beer? | 02:12 |
| nibalizer | as is the portland way | 02:13 |
| * mordred has brain in cachaça | 02:13 | |
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| mordred | as is the mordred way | 02:13 |
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| anteaya | nibalizer: is there a point to waiting for imgur images right now? | 02:14 |
| jeblair | stackforge.rst did not make good use of the :file: custom role... | 02:14 |
| jeblair | it's about to. and the new :config: custom role too. | 02:15 |
| blkperl | anteaya: nibalizer just left to go get icecream, so waiting might be a while | 02:15 |
| jeblair | i don't really know what to do about running-your-own.rst. | 02:16 |
| jeblair | i think it's about to get really, really out of date. | 02:16 |
| anteaya | blkperl: thanks for the update | 02:16 |
| mordred | blkperl: I'm disappointed that he's not irc-ing on his phone like clarkb | 02:16 |
| mordred | or, to be fair, me most days | 02:16 |
| jeblair | i'm thinking of punting for now, and stucking a 'may be out of date' alert at the top, and then revisit it after we end up in a better place. | 02:17 |
| clarkb | its a thing. 4th ave is shutdown my bus is super late woo | 02:17 |
| mordred | https://i.imgur.com/jSwchY4.jpg | 02:17 |
| mordred | for the record | 02:17 |
| mordred | I just send that from my phone | 02:17 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 02:17 |
| blkperl | he might be irc'ing on his phone, but the ice cream mission might be distracting :) | 02:18 |
| mordred | just saying, I'm drinking AND posting pictures of dogs drinking | 02:18 |
| mordred | tell nibalizer he needs to up his game :) | 02:18 |
| * mordred is now scared of what may happen | 02:18 | |
| anteaya | ice cream and phones sounds like a bad combo | 02:18 |
| anteaya | clarkb: why is 4th ave shutdown? | 02:19 |
| blkperl | construction | 02:19 |
| anteaya | yay | 02:20 |
| blkperl | just the 4th and harission intersection | 02:21 |
| blkperl | harisson* | 02:21 |
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| clarkb | "just" | 02:21 |
| blkperl | :) | 02:21 |
| anteaya | blkperl: so when are we going to suck you into code contributions? | 02:22 |
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| blkperl | ha, not anytime soon, my new job is an AWS shop | 02:23 |
| anteaya | hah | 02:24 |
| anteaya | congratulations | 02:24 |
| blkperl | thanks | 02:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Doc updates for project-config https://review.openstack.org/122908 | 02:26 |
| openstackgerrit | James E. Blair proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Doc updates for project-config https://review.openstack.org/122908 | 02:27 |
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| nibalizer | how do i imgur from phone | 02:31 |
| nibalizer | i've been trying to gdrive but that has been failing | 02:31 |
| * nibalizer shakes fist at cloud | 02:31 | |
| nibalizer | anteaya: i think a spec is a ways out | 02:31 |
| anteaya | kk | 02:31 |
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| anteaya | looks like iad and dfw recently fixed the/an error issue | 02:39 |
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| bswartz | hey the python-manilaclient change merged: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122863/ | 02:43 |
| bswartz | that only took about 6 hours :-/ | 02:43 |
| anteaya | yay | 02:44 |
| anteaya | not bad considering the queues and the fact that all host regions have been having significant error states | 02:44 |
| anteaya | glad it merged | 02:44 |
| bswartz | if anyone has some fairy dust to sprinkle on the other job, please do so | 02:45 |
| bswartz | it's up to 5 hr 22 min and still in check, hasn't even gone to gate yet | 02:45 |
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| anteaya | well noone has any fairy dust to get it through check any faster | 02:46 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/devstack-gate: Remove ramdisk build option for Ironic agent driver https://review.openstack.org/121601 | 02:49 |
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| mordred | nibalizer: well, I use irccloud on my phone, and it has a button | 02:53 |
| mordred | blkperl: you know, we know places that aren't focused on AWS that we could probably hook you up with - just for the record :) | 02:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to stackforge/gertty: Add sample config for Gerrit's Gerrit https://review.openstack.org/122550 | 03:09 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to stackforge/gertty: Add submit functionality https://review.openstack.org/122579 | 03:09 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to stackforge/gertty: Be more careful with null accounts https://review.openstack.org/122443 | 03:09 |
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| bswartz | hey the manila change merged too! https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122862/ | 03:20 |
| bswartz | someone did have some fairy dust because that sailed through the gate in no time | 03:20 |
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| lifeless | ohhh | 03:23 |
| lifeless | I was just pointed at http://python-future.org/ | 03:23 |
| lifeless | shiny | 03:23 |
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| blkperl | mordred: hah, thanks, maybe I'll ask you in a couple years :) | 03:49 |
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| * SpamapS reads backscroll and ponders responding to two interesting points | 04:43 | |
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| SpamapS | mordred: regarding the vendoring discussion, I actually agree with you, but I want there to be a formal way for projects to enumerate what they've vendored, to help auditors reconcile what they find on a system. | 04:44 |
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| mordred | SpamapS: I hear that... I'm just not sure what the difference is ... the auditors should know that requests is installed. | 04:51 |
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| SpamapS | mordred: they have to perform a full audit of _requests_ to find what they're looking for (presence of urllib3) | 04:57 |
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| SpamapS | mordred: urllib3 isn't actually stated anywhere that is straight forward to discover. | 04:58 |
| SpamapS | Tons of methods, but there's nowhere a well meaning library can go to say "I vendor this!" and have that included with the end package. | 04:59 |
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| mordred | SpamapS: no. what I'm saying is "what would drive their need to do that" | 05:01 |
| SpamapS | mordred: a problem or concern about urllib3 | 05:01 |
| SpamapS | Or one of its dependencies | 05:02 |
| mordred | so? the library is requests and it's not using urllib3 as a library | 05:02 |
| SpamapS | but the day urllib3, the library, is found to have a weakness, security minded folk will want that weakness identified, assessed, and erradicated from their systems. | 05:02 |
| mordred | sure | 05:02 |
| mordred | but life is hard | 05:03 |
| mordred | what if they forked urllib3? | 05:03 |
| SpamapS | so they'll do the pip freezes, the apt-cache searches .. but then they won't know that requests also has the problem and needs an update. | 05:03 |
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| mordred | what if they just copied one file? | 05:03 |
| SpamapS | same problem really | 05:04 |
| SpamapS | but less risk :) | 05:04 |
| mordred | at some point, requests is the library and has to be treated as such | 05:04 |
| SpamapS | So if requests committed to filing CVE's for itself whenever urllib3 has a problem, that helps a lot. | 05:04 |
| mordred | it would have, wouldn't it? | 05:05 |
| mordred | have to | 05:05 |
| SpamapS | But that only helps with public disclosure. | 05:05 |
| SpamapS | There are plenty of consumers of open source software who are constrainted from publicly reporting the results of their audits. | 05:05 |
| SpamapS | So if this spooky black ops support org finds a urllib3 bug, and thinks they fixed it.... | 05:06 |
| SpamapS | realistically | 05:06 |
| mordred | right. what I'm saying is that you're describing an unsolvable problem | 05:06 |
| SpamapS | might be better to use known code matching techniques to find vulnerable files | 05:06 |
| mordred | because the distros have failed at providing developers value | 05:06 |
| mordred | SpamapS: yah | 05:06 |
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| SpamapS | mordred: the distros do indeed slow people down a _lot_. | 05:06 |
| mordred | all of this requires the devs all playing ball | 05:06 |
| mordred | and for the python/perl/ruby/java/javascript people tehre is no motivatino to do so | 05:07 |
| mordred | except for MAJOR big things | 05:07 |
| nibalizer | a vote of no confidence in the distros | 05:07 |
| nibalizer | lets all switch to nixos | 05:07 |
| SpamapS | thing is | 05:07 |
| mordred | so, imho, chasing adherance to the "rules" the distros have laid down is a total waste of time | 05:07 |
| mordred | and instead | 05:07 |
| SpamapS | the distros have their own tools that need to work too | 05:07 |
| mordred | the distros shold focus on the actual situation | 05:07 |
| mordred | nope | 05:07 |
| mordred | the distros have tools that they fetishize | 05:08 |
| SpamapS | so another way of thinking is, there's system libs, and then there's "not system libs" | 05:08 |
| mordred | yup | 05:08 |
| mordred | the distros obsess over their tools - but those tools work once again does not provide value to the developers writing code in the same way as it does for folks writing C | 05:08 |
| mordred | s/work/working/ | 05:08 |
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| SpamapS | well I'm thinking more like, Ubuntu has a python daemon that reports bugs when things crash. | 05:09 |
| SpamapS | that kind of tool | 05:09 |
| mordred | yah. I uninstall that first thing with prejudice, btw | 05:09 |
| SpamapS | hater | 05:09 |
| mordred | it's VERY evil | 05:09 |
| SpamapS | yuno help? | 05:09 |
| SpamapS | (everybody should remove it from their servers.) | 05:09 |
| mordred | I don't want python programs spinning up every time a thing I'm hacking on exits non-zero | 05:10 |
| mordred | SpamapS: it should never get installed on servers in the first place | 05:10 |
| SpamapS | Yeah its not for you. :) | 05:10 |
| mordred | nibalizer: if I could fully understand how to do that, I might be tempted | 05:10 |
| SpamapS | You'd hate it | 05:11 |
| SpamapS | the first time you have to compile python3 | 05:11 |
| mordred | SpamapS: I may still be on a war path because of the distro response to horizon wanting to use actual javascript tools | 05:12 |
| mordred | SpamapS: which then led to the creation of a BUNCH of fake python pacakges that install javascript | 05:12 |
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| mordred | SpamapS: at some point the distros need to remember that their job is to DISTRIBUTE software that people write - not to tell them how to write it | 05:13 |
| * mordred throw wet cats at everyone | 05:13 | |
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| SpamapS | mordred: The problem is they have to redistribute the same copy in 10 places and then update it in 10 places when it is broken. I agree it's annoying, but I can't just discount their attempts to lighten that burden as useless whining. | 05:21 |
| SpamapS | the Debian security is really wringing their hands over mariadb, mysql, and percona xtradb cluster | 05:21 |
| SpamapS | They'd rather we just pick one. | 05:21 |
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| mordred | SpamapS: I _TOTALLY_ understand their point | 05:22 |
| mordred | I just think that they're winning battles and losing the war | 05:23 |
| SpamapS | They need to be Switzerland | 05:23 |
| SpamapS | Which is basically what NixOS/CoreOS type things are doing. | 05:24 |
| SpamapS | Minimal container w/ bootstrapping tools available. | 05:24 |
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| SpamapS | Just give people a place to hook into the kernel, and don't ask questions about what they're doing. | 05:25 |
| SpamapS | But that also gives rise to a lot of duplicated work that eventually will end up in a distro anyway. :-P | 05:26 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sumit Naiksatam proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: UI, automation repos for group based policy project https://review.openstack.org/122922 | 06:15 |
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| lifeless | mordred: SpamapS: +1 :) | 06:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Improve filtering of translations https://review.openstack.org/122928 | 07:08 |
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| JadnG | pls help us add gerrit group member, thx. https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1363860 | 09:29 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1363860 in openstack-ci "request gerrit group for tricircle" [Undecided,New] | 09:30 |
| JadnG | Our initial source code is waiting for review ( https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122933/) | 09:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed a change to openstack-infra/config: Use python-jobs and publish docs for manila https://review.openstack.org/122076 | 12:12 |
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| sdake | morning | 15:15 |
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| sdake | anyone know what ends up on the staypuft controller node? | 16:04 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: is review-dev.projects.yaml in the dev/zuul/ directory after the re-organization or the dev/ directory? | 18:44 |
| anteaya | line 7 https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Le2P9YegAx | 18:47 |
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| mordred | sdake: sorry, we don't do anything with foreman | 19:03 |
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| sdake | mordred huh? | 19:05 |
| sdake | mordred did I mention something about foreman? personally I think its a bit bloatead and pokey :) | 19:05 |
| mordred | sdake: you asked about a staypufft controller nodr | 19:05 |
| sdake | must have been in wrong channel | 19:06 |
| sdake | sorry | 19:06 |
| mordred | :) | 19:06 |
| sdake | then nevermind my harsh criticism of foreman ;) | 19:06 |
| mordred | anteaya: I believe it would be dev/ | 19:06 |
| mordred | sdake: oh, that I don't mind | 19:06 |
| sdake | mordred yup scrolled back, that was wrong channel | 19:08 |
| sdake | thanks for letting me know, I'll ask in the right place ;) | 19:08 |
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| anteaya | mordred: thanks I will go with dev | 19:15 |
| anteaya | about to create a sample repo for further review | 19:15 |
| mordred | woot | 19:16 |
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| anteaya | it is raining hard enough noone is currently backing up machinery, I have the windows open listening to the beautiful rain, monks are chanting, the beeswax candle is burning in the pottery lamp I made and dinner is simmering on the stove | 19:25 |
| anteaya | I have my moment of long sought after peace | 19:25 |
| anteaya | :D | 19:25 |
| anteaya | and git filter branch is filter branching | 19:25 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: https://github.com/anteaya/reorganized-project-config-01 | 19:48 |
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| clarkb | just pushed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122960/ up | 20:28 |
| clarkb | yolanda appears to not be in channel but reviews are super welcome | 20:28 |
| clarkb | also I wonder if we need to splay our image builds at all since we are centralizing them? | 20:28 |
| anteaya | clarkb: will this affect your patch at all? https://github.com/anteaya/reorganized-project-config-01 | 20:31 |
| anteaya | since you are using teh nodepool/elements | 20:32 |
| clarkb | anteaya: no, since we will need a change to explicitly chaneg to using project_config like jeblair's zuul change | 20:32 |
| clarkb | anteaya: so we should be able to do this mostly side by side at the same tim | 20:32 |
| anteaya | okay | 20:34 |
| mordred | clarkb: the node config specifies fake-dib-image not devstack-trusty | 20:46 |
| clarkb | mordred: whoops did I fail at copy pasta | 20:49 |
| clarkb | fixed | 20:50 |
| clarkb | mordred: also, for rax what makes a pvhvm node a pvhvm node? in the past it sounded like if we grab ubuntu images we get all the drivers we need? do we actually want to test that before we throw load at dib images on rax? | 20:51 |
| jroll | clarkb: it's just the image afaik | 20:53 |
| jroll | oh, your question is probably "what about the image" | 20:53 |
| * jroll hides | 20:53 | |
| clarkb | jroll: :P since we will be transitioning to building our own images I want ot make sure we do it right | 20:55 |
| jroll | right | 20:55 |
| jroll | I can ping people if you don't figure it out | 20:55 |
| jroll | but wouldn't expect an answer until monday | 20:55 |
| jroll | I'm not even sure what the benefits of pvhvm is | 20:55 |
| clarkb | jroll: ya not too worried about it for the near future. baby steps. need to get an image doing anything at all and I can do that over in kvm land with little fuss | 20:55 |
| jroll | s/is/are/ | 20:55 |
| jroll | yeah | 20:56 |
| clarkb | jroll: you get better performance | 20:56 |
| jroll | figured :P | 20:56 |
| clarkb | its like fairie dust for servers | 20:56 |
| jroll | heh | 20:56 |
| clarkb | our tempest runs do run noticeably quicker on pvhvm compared to normal images. not significantly so but a measurable amount | 20:56 |
| mordred | clarkb: I _believe_ it's just kernel drivers or something | 20:58 |
| jroll | clarkb: oh, looks like it's a xen thing | 20:58 |
| jroll | and you just need to set metadata on the image in glance | 20:58 |
| jroll | https://developer.rackspace.com/blog/custom-images-via-boot-dot-rackspace-dot-com-training-wheels-included/ | 20:58 |
| jroll | step 12 | 20:58 |
| clarkb | mordred: ya I think so. your image needs proper drivers to tie into things on the hypervisor side | 20:58 |
| * jroll mbw | 20:59 | |
| jroll | "Upstream vanilla kernel.org Linux 2.6.36 kernel and later versions contain Xen Project PVHVM drivers out-of-the-box!" http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Xen_Linux_PV_on_HVM_drivers#Xen_Project_PVHVM_drivers_for_Linux_HVM_guests | 20:59 |
| clarkb | hrm so we may need to update nodepool to set those flags when it uploads them | 20:59 |
| jroll | from there it looks like it's all on the hypervisor | 21:00 |
| jroll | yeah | 21:00 |
| mordred | clarkb: yah. we need to set xenapi_use_agent=false too | 21:01 |
| mordred | clarkb: the text and the examplse show differet spelling for that, btw | 21:01 |
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| clarkb | ok, something to do in parallel while we kick the tires with kvm | 21:02 |
| mordred | clarkb: sigh. so- that's annoying - maybe we should add a key-value dict of image metadata in nodepool.yaml and put it in the provider section? | 21:02 |
| clarkb | mordred: that is what I was thinking | 21:03 |
| jroll | mordred: ugh, our dev docs are horrible | 21:03 |
| clarkb | mordred: and just pass it through | 21:03 |
| jroll | markdown. | 21:03 |
| mordred | clarkb: ++ | 21:04 |
| mordred | jroll: any idea whether it's xenapi_use_agent or xenapiuseagent? | 21:04 |
| clarkb | mordred: just set both >_> | 21:04 |
| jroll | mordred: not offhand, I would guess xenapi_use_agent, thinking the underscores rendered to italics in the not-code-block | 21:04 |
| mordred | oh - I get it | 21:04 |
| mordred | yeah | 21:04 |
| * mordred agrees with jroll - I believe the rendering shows that it's xenapi_use_agent | 21:05 | |
| clarkb | cool | 21:05 |
| jroll | hatehatehate our docs | 21:05 |
| clarkb | I may end up hackign on that later this weekend but not anytime soon so anyone else should feel free to do it too :) | 21:05 |
| mordred | jroll: well, don't get me started on hating things ... I had to set this earlier: | 21:05 |
| clarkb | mordred: we couldn't agree if we should do brisket or pork butt so we are smoking both tomorrow | 21:06 |
| mordred | service_type='rax:database', | 21:06 |
| jroll | uhhh. | 21:06 |
| mordred | jroll: because, you know, heaven forbid the service catalog return things that things expect | 21:06 |
| clarkb | because more meat is clearly the answer to all our problems | 21:06 |
| mordred | clarkb: awesome! | 21:06 |
| jroll | oh, don't get me started on our service catalog | 21:06 |
| mordred | clarkb: oh - while I'm hacking in on things ... isn't there a weird thing we have to do with glance at rackspace? | 21:06 |
| jroll | or ya know, the fact that we're running wannbe-keystone | 21:06 |
| clarkb | oh thats the other thing we need to check with rax and nodepool images | 21:06 |
| clarkb | rax glance catalog entry is fubar or something and we need to make sure we work with it | 21:07 |
| mordred | clarkb: or, was that just swift? | 21:07 |
| clarkb | mordred: no it was both and fubar in different ways iirc | 21:07 |
| mordred | clarkb: awesome | 21:07 |
| clarkb | swift uses a different tenant, glance just gives you the wrong endpoint | 21:07 |
| mordred | clarkb: is the glance thing just a screwed service_type? | 21:07 |
| clarkb | mordred: that may be it | 21:07 |
| clarkb | and the workaround is to give the endpoint directly | 21:08 |
| mordred | clarkb: do we have that written down in a script somewhere? (like what the right endpoint is?) | 21:08 |
| clarkb | s/tenant/project/ whatever the term of the week is | 21:08 |
| clarkb | mordred: I don't think so bceause we have never used it | 21:08 |
| mordred | clarkb: project is back to being right | 21:08 |
| mordred | clarkb: zomg. how did we find what that right URL is? | 21:09 |
| clarkb | I want to say chmouel blogged about it but I think that was the swift issue | 21:09 |
| * mordred sobs | 21:10 | |
| clarkb | fungi did most of the testing and knows much more than I do | 21:10 |
| mordred | jroll: I'm going to be mailing a bag of wet cats to the castle, just a warning | 21:10 |
| clarkb | I tested the hp side | 21:10 |
| jroll | mordred: as you should | 21:10 |
| dtroyer | [note to self: get mordred a cat dryer for christmas] | 21:11 |
| mordred | dtroyer: :) | 21:11 |
| clarkb | I feel that I should point out that the amount of code we can merge after we fix all the bugs ever is amazing | 21:11 |
| clarkb | therefore maybe we should spend more time fixing all the bugs | 21:11 |
| mordred | ++ | 21:12 |
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| jroll | god forbid we don't dedicate 100% of time to new features | 21:13 |
| clarkb | if you count the week starting last saturday through friday (saturday is when all the bug fixes got in) we merged 576 commits to openstack/openstack | 21:13 |
| mordred | mordred@camelot:~/src/shade$ glance image-listNo handlers could be found for logger "keystoneclient.httpclient" | 21:13 |
| mordred | {'sort_key': 'name', 'sort_dir': 'asc', 'owner': None, 'filters': {}} | 21:13 |
| mordred | HTTPInternalServerError (HTTP 500) | 21:13 |
| clarkb | more than any other week according to github (but I haven't checked all arbitrary contiguous 7 day periods) | 21:13 |
| mordred | just, you know, marvel in that | 21:13 |
| anteaya | jroll: people in management would fall over and die if that happened | 21:13 |
| clarkb | its also more than we have ever done in the istory of openstack/openstack | 21:13 |
| mordred | clarkb: nice | 21:14 |
| jroll | mordred: https://github.com/rackerlabs/developer.rackspace.com/pull/870 | 21:14 |
| anteaya | jroll: because every feature is perfect when written right? | 21:14 |
| jroll | anteaya: cool :) | 21:14 |
| jroll | of course | 21:14 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 21:14 |
| clarkb | so just saying that its amazing what we can do when we focus on fixing problems | 21:14 |
| mordred | jroll: thanks! | 21:14 |
| jroll | :) | 21:14 |
| anteaya | clarkb: it is like fixing bugs helps us somehow | 21:15 |
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| mordred | clarkb: didn't you upload the trusty image by hand? | 21:18 |
| clarkb | maybe we should treat the low incidence of bugs as a feature | 21:18 |
| clarkb | mordred: I did way back when | 21:18 |
| clarkb | mordred: just to make sure that we could do it | 21:19 |
| * mordred just trying to figure out the trick for talking to rackspace glance | 21:19 | |
| clarkb | oh I only did it to hp. fungi did rax | 21:19 |
| clarkb | and I think he specified a specific endpoint that someone gave him? | 21:19 |
| jroll | clarkb: maybe we should treat "actually works" as a feature | 21:19 |
| clarkb | mordred: you know what. I bet that if you read pyrax you will find the magic | 21:20 |
| dtroyer | tox | 21:20 |
| dtroyer | damn, that didn't do anything here…need a bot | 21:21 |
| mordred | clarkb: oh holy shit ... read http://docs.openstack.org/developer/heat/_modules/rackspace/clients.html | 21:21 |
| mordred | clarkb: and marvel at a couple o things: | 21:21 |
| mordred | clarkb: a) that there is a rackspace.clients module in the openstack heat source tre | 21:21 |
| mordred | then, scan down to RackspaceGlanceClient | 21:22 |
| mordred | and enjoy the commend: | 21:22 |
| mordred | comment: | 21:22 |
| mordred | # Rackspace service catalog includes a tenant scoped glance | 21:22 |
| mordred | # endpoint so we have to munge the url a bit | 21:22 |
| clarkb | I just saw that | 21:22 |
| clarkb | munge is such a fun word | 21:22 |
| clarkb | it keeps the scheme and hostname | 21:23 |
| clarkb | then overrides everyting else | 21:23 |
| anteaya | clarkb: good idea | 21:24 |
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| mordred | if anyone wants to read my latest raging: | 21:28 |
| mordred | https://review.openstack.org/122962 | 21:28 |
| clarkb | I am always up for a fun read | 21:28 |
| clarkb | mordred: but how will we know how to make glance work in that cloud now :P | 21:30 |
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| mordred | clarkb: stab stab stab | 21:39 |
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| bknudson | there's some RAX extension docs in identity for some reason -- http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-identity-v2.html#rax-grpadm-ext | 21:55 |
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| mordred | bknudson: I find that offensive | 21:55 |
| mordred | like, it's all over the place in our repos | 21:56 |
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| mordred | bknudson: when did rax extensions just become something we support upstream? | 21:56 |
| bknudson | mordred: I always found it to be pretty sketchy. Nobody has ever asked me about them, though. | 21:57 |
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| mordred | bknudson: https://review.openstack.org/122967 | 21:58 |
| bknudson | nice! | 21:58 |
| mordred | I also just submitted a patch to troveclient to remove rax-auth support | 21:58 |
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| mordred | bknudson: https://review.openstack.org/122968 | 22:03 |
| mordred | bknudson: I have written a quick TC resolution on the subject | 22:03 |
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| bknudson | I don't get to vote | 22:05 |
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| bknudson | mordred: http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-identity-v2.html#hp-idm-admin-ext | 22:07 |
| mordred | bknudson: thanks. I'll remove that too | 22:07 |
| mordred | bknudson: done. https://review.openstack.org/122969 | 22:10 |
| jroll | mordred: what are these TC resolutions? just things TC has decided? | 22:11 |
| mordred | jroll: yah | 22:11 |
| morgan_remote_ | Mordred: ++ removing that stuff. | 22:11 |
| * jroll nod | 22:11 | |
| mordred | jroll: I mean, I have no idea if the rest of the TC will agree with me | 22:11 |
| jroll | right | 22:12 |
| jroll | which is what gerrit is for | 22:12 |
| mordred | yup! | 22:12 |
| mordred | same with teh 4 patches I just submitted to various places which delete compat things | 22:12 |
| mordred | btw - I still can't get glance image-list to work | 22:13 |
| mordred | glance --os-image-url https://dfw.images.api.rackspacecloud.com/v2 image-list is my latest try | 22:13 |
| jroll | ugh | 22:13 |
| jroll | I remember trying to do this once and giving up | 22:13 |
| mordred | I'm tempted to open a support ticket | 22:13 |
| jroll | mordred: I hate to say this, but try --os-auth-strategy rackspace | 22:14 |
| jroll | or rax, dunno | 22:14 |
| jroll | do it | 22:14 |
| mordred | I don't have an API key though | 22:14 |
| mordred | I have a password | 22:14 |
| jroll | I'm a big fan of making noise | 22:14 |
| jroll | if you log into mycloud.rackspace.com you can get an api key | 22:14 |
| mordred | yeah - but then I'm back to using not-openstack | 22:14 |
| mordred | I mean, I could use pyrax | 22:14 |
| jroll | likely a way to do that with keystone client too | 22:14 |
| jroll | right | 22:14 |
| mordred | well, I don't WANT to do that | 22:14 |
| mordred | I want to add solid openstack support for glance to ansible | 22:15 |
| jroll | I'm ignoring our broken shit for a moment and trying to get you a working glance client | 22:15 |
| jroll | ah | 22:15 |
| jroll | hrm | 22:15 |
| mordred | oh - no, sorry - I'm quite specifically trying to make a thing the works more broadly | 22:15 |
| mordred | I can't have glance auth differently than everything else | 22:15 |
| jroll | indeed | 22:15 |
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| anteaya | mordred: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122964/ needs a rebase | 22:53 |
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| mordred | anteaya: thank you. done | 23:13 |
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| anteaya | thanks | 23:19 |
| anteaya | oh and this is interesting: http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/september/motivation-walton-carr-091514.html | 23:19 |
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| mordred | anteaya: interesting! | 23:32 |
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| anteaya | I found it so | 23:37 |
| anteaya | explains a lot to me about why I enjoy working with the people I enjoy working with and why I feel drained by the people I feel drained by | 23:38 |
| anteaya | the difference between tell me the minimum I have to do so I don't have to think about this again, and hey this is fun, what else can we do? | 23:39 |
| jroll | anteaya: ++ | 23:40 |
| jroll | I've noticed this as well | 23:40 |
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| mordred | clarkb: I was just reading chromakode's blog, and learned about "aptitude why" - which I did not know about since I don't use aptitude | 23:44 |
| mordred | clarkb: it seems like a thing we've needed in the past from time to time | 23:45 |
| anteaya | jroll: cool :D | 23:45 |
| jroll | mordred: neat | 23:46 |
| anteaya | awesome | 23:48 |
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| anteaya | now I had to install aptitude first since I didn't yet have it but handy now | 23:48 |
| mordred | yah | 23:48 |
| mordred | anteaya: for f in $(dpkg -l | grep '^ii' | awk '{print $2}') ; do echo $f ; aptitude why $f ; done | 23:50 |
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