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| jamielennox | how do i just run glance unit tests | 05:18 |
|---|---|---|
| jamielennox | if i do tox -e py27 in most places it works | 05:18 |
| jamielennox | but in glance i get a whole bunch of functional failures first that i can't seem to skip | 05:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Pankaj Mishra proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: python-glanceclient doesn't support $HOME while uploading image https://review.openstack.org/310397 | 07:27 |
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| rosmaita | flaper87: put a patch up yesterday, stuart commented, put up PS 2: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311871/ | 12:39 |
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| hemanthm | jokke_: why do you think it's unnecessary? | 12:47 |
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| hemanthm | jokke_: we are doing this so that it's easier to maintain our config opts. | 12:52 |
| hemanthm | specifically it is easier to do the other steps of the categorized config options work. | 12:55 |
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| hemanthm | besides that, if one can see all config opts in one central place, one may re-evaluate the need for adding a new config opt | 12:56 |
| hemanthm | and when adding a new config opt, one would be forced to stick to the help text template and add other required flags because all the opts are doing it | 12:57 |
| hemanthm | and it's going to be easier for reviewers as well | 12:58 |
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| kragniz | fwiw, I think we have a slightly crazy number of config files | 13:06 |
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| flaper87 | rosmaita: awesome | 14:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hemanthm: just thinking about centralise configuration, hows that discussion going? | 14:53 |
| hemanthm | johnthetubaguy: we are still trying to convince jokke_ who believes it could break things in ways that our tests may not necessarily catch | 14:56 |
| hemanthm | johnthetubaguy: did you notice config centralization breaking anything in nova so far? | 14:57 |
| jokke_ | johnthetubaguy: yet to see any value for it compared to the effort and risk, no | 14:59 |
| hemanthm | jokke_: what is the risk you are referring to here? | 15:01 |
| hemanthm | jokke_: and centralization is not a huge effort by itself but it makes things easier later | 15:02 |
| jokke_ | hemanthm: as said yesterday the refactoring has it's risks of breaking things we might not catch and all the rest of youyr points are nicely collected per service on the example config files | 15:06 |
| hemanthm | jokke_: are you concerned that tests won't catch it? | 15:07 |
| hemanthm | jokke_: the example config files are not updated frequently enough for developers' use | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | jokke_: so granted the problem is worse in nova than glance, but the why is so its easier to shame config options into getting good option descriptions, and to make it harder to create two different configurations for the same setting, just used in two different bits in the code. | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | jokke_: totally getting the grouping in the sample file, and the better option descriptions is the more important part though | 15:10 |
| * nikhil scrolls back | 15:11 | |
| johnthetubaguy | nova builds the configuration sample file and pops that into our developer docs, if that helps with making sure that doesn't break | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats proved very handy a couple of times | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | we regressed a whole heap of stuff in the transition, but now its more central, its going to be way easier for us to keep that looking good | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | as I say, getting a good experience for the operators is key here, the centralise is just to make it easier for reviews and developers to no regress that work | 15:12 |
| jokke_ | hemanthm: now when the example configs does not roll fully around and become 6000 line changes we should be regenaring them with any change that touches the config options | 15:14 |
| jokke_ | there is no excuse not to | 15:14 |
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| nikhil | I am still fuzzy on what exactly being discussed here | 15:16 |
| jokke_ | nikhil: nothing new | 15:16 |
| hemanthm | nikhil: config centralization | 15:16 |
| nikhil | it seems like we are proposing refactor of glance/common/config and the likes of it | 15:17 |
| nikhil | correct | 15:17 |
| nikhil | ? | 15:17 |
| nikhil | (trying to break down the problem) | 15:17 |
| hemanthm | yes | 15:17 |
| hemanthm | and wherever the config opts are defined | 15:17 |
| nikhil | ok, so let's start evaluating this objectively | 15:17 |
| nikhil | 1. where will the configs move? (to-from) (some diverse examples) | 15:18 |
| hemanthm | to a new package glance.conf | 15:18 |
| nikhil | 2. what is currently being used by operators? glance-api.conf.sample etc.? | 15:18 |
| nikhil | 3. where is the breakage expected? code, sample, config builds, reorder of configs? | 15:19 |
| nikhil | 4. whom & how is the nova developer documentation helping with currently ? | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | can I do 4. | 15:20 |
| nikhil | 5. johnthetubaguy mentioned about something being regressed -- can we define in glance what would be expected & the likelihood? | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | it means every change generates a sample config you can review in the jenkins output, to see what the current output of the sample file is | 15:21 |
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| jokke_ | So the main question I have been asking without answer is "What this would provide that we do not have available yet?" | 15:21 |
| nikhil | ok, I am done with questions. feel free to continue with responses.. | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | 4 also means you ensure the sample generation doesn't error out at any time (we hit that, for another thing) | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | jokke_: being in one place, its easier to add new configs in a consistent way with existing configurations | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | now thats a big deal for nova, the code base is huge, and most people don't know most of the code base | 15:22 |
| hemanthm | 3. the centralization itself should not change the contents of the sample file | 15:23 |
| hemanthm | 3. centralization should not result in any content-/structure-related changes in the config files | 15:24 |
| nikhil | johnthetubaguy: I see, so centralization will help with getting a sense of ~800 config options easily for developers and avoid duplication? the debate seems to be on the value addition for this change to glance | 15:25 |
| jokke_ | johnthetubaguy: and that's fair. Fos us, we have the example configs in tree for reference and the code base is not that huge (while still not all bits extra familiar for everyone, like myself). But that centralization also looses the perspective and possible causes those issue the x-proj spec tries to solve where changing one option affects many places. Just because it's easier to not think the consequences and go with "That's similar | 15:26 |
| nikhil | thanks for elaborating #3 hemanthm | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | jokke_: not sure what you mean about the changing one option that affects many places? thats not a problem I have been thinking about at least | 15:27 |
| nikhil | hemanthm: do we have a idea of the reuse of config options for api, registry, scrubber etc? | 15:27 |
| hemanthm | nikhil: yes, we do that now and that would continue to be the case | 15:28 |
| rosmaita | ls | 15:28 |
| hemanthm | no change there | 15:28 |
| jokke_ | johnthetubaguy: that was one pointer in the x-proj spec or the comments where issues were raised of changing config option causing unexpected behavior somewhere else | 15:28 |
| rosmaita | (sorry) | 15:28 |
| nikhil | rosmaita: :) | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | jokke_: hmm, OK, I don't remember that, its more focused on the deployer issues with using our current config | 15:29 |
| nikhil | jokke_: I see | 15:29 |
| nikhil | jokke_: I am skeptical though, do we check that even today? | 15:29 |
| nikhil | jokke_: if not, we should something about it :) | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | what we need is deployers not having to read the code to understand how to use a CONF setting | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | so thats kinda included in that, I guess | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | you need to know what it does | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | part of the exercise is, when its super hard to use, we need to change | 15:31 |
| jokke_ | nikhil: we do not have tests for that, if that's what you mean. | 15:31 |
| nikhil | hemanthm: I dunno if that's the case what jokke_ is thinking about as well. where the same config is used by different place in the code base and centralizing may loose some hold on the right changes for the config in future. | 15:31 |
| nikhil | jokke_: yeah | 15:31 |
| jokke_ | and I see that as problem if that config is not defined close by. | 15:32 |
| hemanthm | jokke_: we have configs defined in arbitrary places even now. Our configs are not necessarily defined near their usage points | 15:32 |
| jokke_ | johnthetubaguy: I totally agree that deployers should not need to read the code. But I don't see how bringing all the config code would help on that. Quite opposite "Why should we do example configs? It's all there in the config module, easy to check there." | 15:33 |
| hemanthm | some of our configs are in glance/common/config.py and others are scattered all over the place and imported | 15:34 |
| jokke_ | hemanthm: great, let's start by fixing that ;) | 15:34 |
| hemanthm | jokke_: I don't think we can. | 15:34 |
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| jokke_ | Bringing it all together even | 15:35 |
| hemanthm | we can't always have option definitions close to usages | 15:35 |
| hemanthm | it's at least consistent | 15:35 |
| jokke_ | hemanthm: that's the reality, but that does not justify taking it all as far as we can either | 15:35 |
| nikhil | hemanthm: yes I agree on that fact, and that's never a possibility | 15:35 |
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| hemanthm | here is an example: https://github.com/openstack/glance/blob/master/glance/scrubber.py#L36-L38 | 15:36 |
| hemanthm | that option is not used by scrubber at all | 15:36 |
| hemanthm | it's only used by the API | 15:37 |
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| jokke_ | but anyways as there doesn't seem to be anything new still around the topic, I'll get back to work. No offence meant to anyone. | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | jokke_: I am more thinking about the docs that describe the config, rather than the sample file, getting good descriptions into the config def | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the best approach is probably do whats needed for operators, and see how it works | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | nova has found it easer to centralize first, but thats more the case of the scale of the problem | 15:38 |
| nikhil | yeah, I think this will help and may hurt glance. it's a good and bad experience for sure. | 15:39 |
| jokke_ | johnthetubaguy: and that I'm really supportive. My point is that we have all the config options and their helptexts grouped in the sample configs. There is no better place to reference them for improvements that the example configs that are directly meant for deployers | 15:39 |
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| nikhil | johnthetubaguy: I think this will help in the long term though, at least the session during the summit convinced me. | 15:40 |
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| nikhil | jokke_: yeah, I think the problem being solved is for developers as I understood from the session. hemanthm please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong | 15:42 |
| hemanthm | nikhil: it is for the developers | 15:42 |
| nikhil | I think I gave a similar summary in the email as well (hoping that memory served right) | 15:42 |
| hemanthm | that's mentioned on the spec as well | 15:42 |
| nikhil | it's meant to put guilt feeling in dev mind when they introduce new ones | 15:42 |
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| nikhil | and it's meant for helping ops and tech writes to improve configs | 15:43 |
| nikhil | more of providing a platform for that case | 15:43 |
| hemanthm | well, we are not seeking any help from them at this point | 15:43 |
| nikhil | ok, good! | 15:44 |
| hemanthm | but it's to help the developers get a consolidated view of the configs | 15:44 |
| hemanthm | which helps in maintaining the config opts | 15:44 |
| nikhil | and I think we need a strong example for it hemanthm | 15:44 |
| hemanthm | there is a patchset nikhil | 15:45 |
| nikhil | because that argument is subjective and resulting in differeing opinions | 15:45 |
| nikhil | the one you linked in the etherpad? | 15:45 |
| hemanthm | yes | 15:45 |
| nikhil | k, thanks | 15:45 |
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| hemanthm | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/303552/ | 15:46 |
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| hemanthm | there are options that are defined in different modules but depend on each other | 15:46 |
| hemanthm | it'll be easier to discover such dependencies too if we have them all centralized at one place | 15:47 |
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| jokke_ | how? If those dependencies are not documented they won't pop up from anywhere else than the actual code | 15:47 |
| jokke_ | and if they are documented, they are also documented in the example configs | 15:48 |
| hemanthm | jokke_: populating the dependencies is a part of the x-proj spec | 15:48 |
| nikhil | yeah, I think this can be elaborated a bit. what was happening before and how it's helping now? | 15:49 |
| hemanthm | like the config option I mentioned above delayed_delete | 15:49 |
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| hemanthm | delayed_delete is an API option but that determines whether or not scrubber options should be set | 15:50 |
| nikhil | hemanthm: is that going to be part of help text? | 15:50 |
| hemanthm | yes | 15:50 |
| nikhil | ok, then that's a BIG win! | 15:50 |
| hemanthm | the help text format has related options section | 15:51 |
| nikhil | because that's the only way a new developer will bother to look to introduce such weirdness | 15:51 |
| hemanthm | and once we populate the depedencies through oslo.config flags, it'll be generated via oslo config generator as well | 15:51 |
| nikhil | hemanthm: but that happens today as well right? | 15:52 |
| hemanthm | generating dependencies through oslo config generator? | 15:52 |
| nikhil | hemanthm: yeas? | 15:52 |
| nikhil | oh wait, no | 15:53 |
| nikhil | today it's generating them all unwisely | 15:53 |
| hemanthm | yes | 15:53 |
| nikhil | putting all irrelevant in the unnnecessary files | 15:53 |
| nikhil | TBH, our sample files are terrible! | 15:53 |
| nikhil | I can rant about them for hours | 15:53 |
| nikhil | there have been at least 5 requests on this channel over the last few months asking what configs are to be set for api and for registry | 15:54 |
| nikhil | because they are all mixed up!! | 15:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | so... the centralise is not about helping the deployer, its about giving developers the visibility to update the descriptions so docs and sample config are good for the deployers, if that makes sense | 15:54 |
| hemanthm | ++ johnthetubaguy | 15:55 |
| nikhil | johnthetubaguy: yes, sorry about side tracking the convo.. | 15:55 |
| hemanthm | nikhil: yeah, that's where we want to get at with the x-proj sepc | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | nikhil: no worries, side tracks are important | 15:55 |
| hemanthm | once we categorize opts into required, normal, advanced and deprecated, operators would be able to see exactly what's required to run a particular service | 15:55 |
| jokke_ | johnthetubaguy: and that why we have glance/etc/* and why I have been so stubborn not to get rid of them ;) | 15:56 |
| kairat | So we will consider CONF as global variable then | 15:56 |
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| jokke_ | johnthetubaguy: now I probably really just need to be even more bitch and demand on the reviews those to be updated when ever the options are touched | 15:57 |
| nikhil | johnthetubaguy: is the documentation going to be somewhere on *.openstack.org/*/*/config-options ? | 15:57 |
| kairat | Do I understand correctly? | 15:57 |
| jokke_ | nikhil: iirc those exists already | 15:57 |
| nikhil | kairat: not python global | 15:57 |
| nikhil | kairat: module globals as they are today | 15:57 |
| nikhil | kairat https://review.openstack.org/#/c/303552/ | 15:58 |
| nikhil | I'm looking at that and trying to figure out +s and -s | 15:58 |
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| nikhil | I know there's a install guide | 15:59 |
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| kairat | ++ to nikhil | 15:59 |
| kairat | For me it looks like we are getting everything in one place just because our code is not structured well | 16:01 |
| kairat | But maybe I am wrong so need to review better | 16:01 |
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| nikhil | kairat: nah, I think the idea is to give a holistic perspective on the configs. the specs (xprj and glance ones) tell a bit of the story but we need wider input here. | 16:03 |
| kairat | Can you please point me to x-proj spec? | 16:04 |
| nikhil | kairat: sure, a sec | 16:04 |
| hemanthm | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/295543/ | 16:04 |
| kairat | I am interested how this would help long-term | 16:04 |
| nikhil | I, myself, need re-reading and some more input from other teams with smaller codebase | 16:04 |
| kairat | nikhil, thanks! | 16:04 |
| hemanthm | nikhil: keystone maybe a good option | 16:05 |
| hemanthm | they have done centralization too | 16:05 |
| nikhil | hemanthm: oh I see, thanks. | 16:05 |
| nikhil | I will also look for one that has not done it to see why | 16:05 |
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| nikhil | Thanks all for chatting, I gtg. Let's reconvene later. | 16:08 |
| jokke_ | nikhil: you might get directed to project called Glance with reason "Because there is one stubborn core" :P | 16:08 |
| nikhil | jokke_: LOL | 16:08 |
| flaper87 | jokke_: make that two | 16:08 |
| nikhil | jokke_: with good reason. I just need one more team to say to that they don't want to else glance would be a odd one out. | 16:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | nikhil: I think the docs are already there, I should find the link | 16:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | nikhil: this one: http://docs.openstack.org/mitaka/config-reference/ | 16:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | nikhil: there is another one somehwere though... hmm | 16:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so the key bit is making the config options are understood without reading code, the how is totally up to each project | 16:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | the x-project spec is really just sharing what has worked in the past | 16:29 |
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| openstackgerrit | Brian Rosmaita proposed openstack/glance: WIP: WADL to RST migration https://review.openstack.org/312259 | 16:41 |
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| nikhil | johnthetubaguy: ack. thanks for the link! | 16:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Darja Shakhray proposed openstack/glance: Add transaction layer https://review.openstack.org/272118 | 17:32 |
| openstackgerrit | Stuart McLaren proposed openstack/glance: [WIP] Image import: prototype /import implementation https://review.openstack.org/312653 | 17:36 |
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| openstackgerrit | Hemanth Makkapati proposed openstack/glance: Improve help text of scrubber opts https://review.openstack.org/312720 | 19:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Hemanth Makkapati proposed openstack/glance: Improve help text of scrubber opts https://review.openstack.org/312720 | 19:57 |
| hemanthm | rosmaita ^ | 19:57 |
| * rosmaita looking | 19:58 | |
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| ntaylor1781 | So I am interested in contributing, just trying to make sure I have the process down right. First I would create a blueprint, then I would create a glance-spec (that would have the link to the blueprint). At which point we can discuss the need, befor I would start supplying the code? | 20:51 |
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| nikhil | ntaylor1781: heya! | 20:55 |
| ntaylor1781 | Howdy! | 20:55 |
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| nikhil | ntaylor1781: thanks for your interest. What are you interested in contributing? | 20:55 |
| nikhil | ntaylor1781: I'm working on finalizing the process and we will have a better answer for you next week. But to clarify your question I need the info :) | 20:56 |
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| nikhil | rosmaita: tsymancz1k : hello | 20:56 |
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| ntaylor1781 | So while at the Openstack summit I met with a guy who was working on getting glance to support multiple backends, specifically multiple ceph backends. I have started working on that with him, and want to make sure I do everything right. | 20:56 |
| tsymancz1k | hello. my connectivity through all of the symantec firewalls is extremely poor. | 20:56 |
| nikhil | rosmaita: tsymancz1k : you guys wanna discuss Community images spec and do a __init__ convo on it tomorrow's meeting https://review.openstack.org/#/c/271019/ ? | 20:57 |
| rosmaita | sure, we could discuss during tomorrow's meeting | 20:57 |
| tsymancz1k | i'll be there. happy to discuss whatever you want. | 20:57 |
| nikhil | tsymancz1k: ah, np at all. just fyi -- I've been having conn issue so trying out irccloud. it's a web thing so works fine for now. | 20:57 |
| nikhil | rosmaita: tsymancz1k thanks! | 20:57 |
| nikhil | ntaylor1781: ok. sure, you want to create a full spec for that as what you say involved a bit of location magic that not many are comfortable with in glance atm. | 20:58 |
| nikhil | ntaylor1781: the process is | 20:58 |
| nikhil | 1) create a BP in lp | 20:59 |
| nikhil | 2) create a spec against openstack/glance-specs repo (using template and older specs to fill out the info) | 20:59 |
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| nikhil | 3) highlight me or someone you talked to at the summit to get that going (glance cores need to determine how much of energy and interest people are putting behind their proposals) | 21:00 |
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| nikhil | 4) you can continue working on your code once you get a first pass from someone that is positive in your approach and you don't have to wait up on spec approval. | 21:00 |
| nikhil | 5) world peace :) | 21:01 |
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| ntaylor1781 | lol | 21:01 |
| ntaylor1781 | perfect thanks. | 21:01 |
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| nikhil | 👍 | 21:01 |
| ntaylor1781 | Yea my company has desperate need for it, and I'm a huge fan of contributing upstream. I don't like to just patch local versions, especially if other people can benefit from it. | 21:02 |
| ntaylor1781 | I will start looking at that, and also go over the glance contributing stuff again, just to make sure I have everything right. | 21:02 |
| ntaylor1781 | Thanks for your input! | 21:02 |
| nikhil | ntaylor1781: ack. yw! | 21:02 |
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