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| openstackgerrit | Duong Ha-Quang proposed openstack/governance master: Add kolla-ansible-plugins https://review.openstack.org/491413 | 01:17 |
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| persia | Does anyone have a handy script to get from the content of an email to openstack-dev (or just the Message-ID) to an http link to the archive on lists.openstack.org? | 02:07 |
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| fungi | i don't, no | 02:17 |
| fungi | unless maybe plugging a relatively unique string sample into a web search engine counts | 02:18 |
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| breton | lol, apache fortress | 14:01 |
| breton | why are we poking it? It doesn't map to what we do in keystone at all | 14:02 |
| cdent | breton: with a name like fortess it is just begging to be poked? | 14:04 |
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| lbragstad | breton: it was something dims and i were talking about - more or less discussing the use case of having a hook to offload policy decisions to something else | 14:13 |
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| lbragstad | breton: not *necessarily* apache fortress | 14:14 |
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| dims | breton : i added a HttpsCheck https://review.openstack.org/#/c/491783/ | 14:14 |
| dims | breton : similar to the kubernetes webhook's for authorization decisions - https://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/authorization/webhook/ | 14:15 |
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| sdague | dims: wandering a bit off path, would json web tokens get you anything there? | 14:26 |
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| sdague | dims: which I bring up, because I've got a use case of wanting keystone auth plugged into mosquitto (mqtt), which has json web token support baked in | 14:27 |
| dims | sdague : yep, jwt will work for authentication, i was looking at hooks for authorization. we had HttpCheck which is not secure at all, so adding the support for SSL | 14:28 |
| sdague | dims: ah, gotcha | 14:28 |
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| dims | sdague : we will need oslo.context to pass along extra information too (say a new paste filter grabs more info from http context and passes it along to the HttpCheck) | 14:29 |
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| sdague | dims: that could probably be done in keystonemiddleware | 14:34 |
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| dims | sdague : will we still need a bag to pass the data collected along? | 14:36 |
| sdague | dims: sure, enhance context in the process | 14:36 |
| sdague | but you can probably do it without paste.ini changes | 14:36 |
| sdague | fortunately over the past couple of cycles pretty much everything is using this path for creating contexts - https://github.com/openstack/oslo.context/blob/e23339728ac2c121d8849467fc1d508395579d26/oslo_context/context.py#L384-L385 | 14:37 |
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| sdague | that's why the global request id work was actually a small amount of code | 14:38 |
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| dims | gotcha sdague. makes sense. thanks, will look deeper | 14:41 |
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| ttx | jamespage: saw https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/1709032 ? Looks like a kernel regression in Xenial | 16:14 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1709032 in Linux "Creating conntrack entry failure with kernel 4.4.0-89" [Critical,Confirmed] | 16:14 |
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| ttx | (that is what caused neutron functional job fails recently, but it probably affects regular Xenial/OpenStack users too) | 16:15 |
| jamespage | ttx: yeah I just saw that go past in the ML | 16:15 |
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| ttx | cool, wanted to make sure you saw it :) | 16:15 |
| jamespage | ttx: escalating to kernel team right now :) | 16:17 |
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| thingee_ | dhellmann: I recommended the moderator for http://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MEX-ops-documentation-of-older-versions to see Mitaka looks as an archive. | 16:23 |
| thingee_ | It’s really important to not use the word supported. Until we have CI testing for older versions. | 16:24 |
| dhellmann | yeah, the plan I've proposed is to just stop deleting content | 16:24 |
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| dhellmann | there's some detail in the mailing list thread | 16:24 |
| dhellmann | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2017-July/010069.html | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-July/120254.html | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-August/120541.html | 16:25 |
| thingee_ | dhellmann: awesome. I’m just an annoying attendee here | 16:25 |
| thingee_ | I’m assuming there will be a big warning | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | we need to work out how to do that, but yeah, that's the idea | 16:25 |
| thingee_ | Great love it | 16:25 |
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| thingee_ | odyssey4me: fyi we’re discussing containers with kolla and and OpenStack Ansible https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MEX-ops-documentation-of-older-versions | 16:35 |
| thingee_ | Whoops | 16:37 |
| thingee_ | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MEX-ops-openstack-on-containers | 16:37 |
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| jamespage | ttx: thanks for the headsup btw - should have kernel team focus shortly | 16:46 |
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| thingee_ | dhellmann, fungi: I thought we were moving away from the wiki? http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/docs-specs/specs/pike/os-manuals-migration.html#what-is-happening-to-each-guide | 17:03 |
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| thingee_ | Or is that no longer the case with spam being handled | 17:03 |
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| fungi | thingee_: infra would still like to be rid of the wiki, but there's been significant community demand to keep it maintained and since spam volume seems to be under control i need to pick back up the efforts on getting it into configuration management finally | 17:26 |
| fungi | i'm still dubious that "moving the ops guide to the wiki" will draw enough contributors to get it current again and keep it that way, but it seems like more of a last-ditch effort | 17:26 |
| fungi | as opposed to just deleting/retiring it entirely | 17:27 |
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| dhellmann | fungi, thingee_ : that content has already been deleted from docs.o.o. The wiki move was proposed by some ops folks, but hasn't had much traction yet. One or two people are looking at tools, I think. | 17:49 |
| dhellmann | basically, the potential contributors said they didn't want to deal with gerrit | 17:49 |
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| thingee_ | dhellmann: my only worry is the content being good if there’s no reviewing | 18:13 |
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| dhellmann | thingee_ : the docs team has said it's going to be up to whoever decides to pick up the project to decide how to implement it. | 18:14 |
| thingee_ | That makes me happy the docs team is allowing projects to decide on that. I guess I’m just giving feedback and curious if we like that’s a showstopper to figure out. | 18:15 |
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| thingee_ | Unless people are like any content is better than none | 18:16 |
| thingee_ | Even if doesn’t work | 18:16 |
| thingee_ | If it* | 18:16 |
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| dhellmann | sure. my point is just that it will be more useful to have that conversation is with the people who are going to maintain it -- the operators guide is no longer a docs team deliverable | 18:17 |
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| fungi | and really, if the docs team already wasn't maintaining the ops guide effectively, then the content was going to stop being "good" regardless | 18:33 |
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| fungi | i guess the real concern is that we would have content that is published but not "good enough" such that it was misleading or actively damaging to downstream relationships and so worse than not having that content at all | 18:35 |
| fungi | however, i do think that having that on the wiki instead of docs.openstack.org also mitigates that argument some | 18:35 |
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| fungi | i.e., "it's on the wiki, what do you expect?" | 18:35 |
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| thingee_ | Hey all, ops meet up is discussing upgrades and migrating https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MEX-ops-migrations-upgrades | 18:37 |
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| thingee_ | mriedem dansmith ^ | 18:37 |
| thingee_ | sdague: | 18:38 |
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| sdague | thingee_: it's pretty hard to follow a remote etherpad. If there are specific asks that can be responded to on IRC, that would be cool | 18:52 |
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| sdague | thingee_: what would be probably very useful to capture in that room (assuming you are in that room) | 18:55 |
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| * cdent doesn’t understand why everyone doesn’t do the parallel thing mentioned | 18:55 | |
| cdent | I guess because $$ | 18:56 |
| sdague | Q1: what current makes upgrades hard (personal perspective from folks) | 18:56 |
| sdague | Q2: what has gone wrong in upgrades (specific instances) so things that can be addressed in the future | 18:56 |
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| thingee_ | sdague: going to ask the group now | 18:57 |
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| smcginnis | Running out of time with so much focus on skip upgrading but would be good answers to have. | 18:57 |
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| thingee_ | Yea | 18:57 |
| sdague | Q3: what process have people implemented for doing upgrades beyond what's in upstream docs (or even what's in there) that they've found very successful (so that patterns can be established) | 18:58 |
| dansmith | cdent: no it's because of pets | 18:58 |
| sdague | yeh, skip upgrades are what people want to talk about, but I want to ask the question why people got so far back that they need to do that | 18:58 |
| dansmith | sdague: it's not just that it's also upgrade frequency | 18:58 |
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| dansmith | the choice I've been trying to push for internally is: | 18:59 |
| dansmith | if you value uptime, you upgrade more frequently and can have things online during the upgrade | 18:59 |
| dansmith | if you value infrequent updates, then you take a lot of downtime and roll through the steps to go from N to M and then turn things back on | 18:59 |
| dansmith | you get to prioritize one thing, but not both | 18:59 |
| sdague | dansmith: sure, that's fair | 19:00 |
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| dansmith | and FWIW, | 19:00 |
| dansmith | we've been doing some testing of scripting the N to N+3 procedure for completely offline upgrades | 19:01 |
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| dansmith | just by going through each step, applying migrations, and then moving on | 19:01 |
| dansmith | and that works, of course, modulo the config changes, deprecations, etc | 19:01 |
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| dansmith | things like being graceful about a missing placement and warning about stuff gets skipped, so you have to know what is required at each step, but it's just not that hard | 19:01 |
| sdague | dansmith: right, the thing I get concerned about there is the config changes. You are going to have to do a lot of upfront validation of what goes away and changes around. | 19:01 |
| dansmith | yep, and it's all on you (or your vendor) to make sure they have that worked out | 19:02 |
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| dansmith | for sure | 19:02 |
| thingee_ | sdague: your questions are on the bottom of the etherpad for people to respond | 19:02 |
| dansmith | there be dragons | 19:02 |
| dansmith | it's really unfortunate to try to be having this conversation with a remote group of people in a room | 19:03 |
| cdent | dansmith: if one wanted to try really hard, one could presumably live migrate a-soon-to-be-orphaned pet using libvirt alone? (not suggesting it, just feeling things out) | 19:03 |
| dansmith | cdent: no | 19:04 |
| dansmith | cdent: nova would and should kill it off as none of the nova-side setup will be there | 19:04 |
| sdague | thingee_: thanks | 19:04 |
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| cdent | feh | 19:05 |
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| thingee_ | sdague: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-forum-skip-level-upgrading seems related | 19:06 |
| dansmith | thingee_: I was in that session | 19:07 |
| sdague | thingee_: yeh, it's hard to digest everything in etherpads. Anyway, any time someone has an upgrade database corruption, please please tell them they need to file a bug | 19:07 |
| sdague | because stuff like that we try to look at, but if there is no bug, there is no way to know this happened | 19:07 |
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| smcginnis | Challenge is by that point they are scrambling to recover and taking time to collect logs and triage is last of their concerns. But agree we need to try to get what we can. | 19:08 |
| sdague | yeh, I do get that, but without capture it can't be actioned on | 19:09 |
| dansmith | zero sympathy for that | 19:09 |
| sdague | if nothing else, reporting it pays it forward so there could be a fix by the time the next person shows up | 19:10 |
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| thingee_ | sdague: will tell people to report bugs =/ | 19:11 |
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| fungi | if you see something, _say_ something | 19:29 |
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| smcginnis | Only you can prevnt data center fires. | 20:32 |
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| * fungi has had more issues with data center floods in recent years, but sure | 20:51 | |
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| thingee_ | Hey all, Melvin is doing his best with trying to do a last minute stream of the ops meet up https://www.pscp.tv/w/bFoZiTFETEVCRFJieXlxS0p8MWxEeExrcXlxWWtKbTmL47yoWMBpisbPPCK7NVSFx7ZlzbKCHhSIUihYjB9bcurrent topic is https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MEX-ops-resiliency agenda is https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MEX-ops-meetup | 20:57 |
| thingee_ | sdague dansmith ^ | 20:57 |
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| thingee_ | Fixed stream link https://www.pscp.tv/mrhillsman1/1lDxLkqyqYkJm | 21:00 |
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| mtreinish | thingee_: hah, I clicked that link and the video is the back of someone's leg standing in front of the camera :) | 21:20 |
| mtreinish | oh, they moved | 21:20 |
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| thingee_ | For people involved with zero downtime, zero impact etc, I believe things stalled because we didn’t know how would we do this test. This surfaced from the product working group https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/user-stories/proposed/openstack-extreme-testing.html | 21:44 |
| thingee_ | Someone at the ops meet up with ntt is claiming that they’re interested in solving these problems. | 21:44 |
| thingee_ | I think this conflicts with our documented tags anyways | 21:44 |
| thingee_ | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/tags/assert_supports-zero-downtime-upgrade.html and https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/tags/assert_supports-zero-impact-upgrade.html | 21:45 |
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| thingee_ | Dev digest or something, I’ll be listing contacts who are interested in these efforts, as well as attempting to give them previous irc meetings, threads etc for context | 21:47 |
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| fungi | sounds awesome | 22:34 |
| fungi | persia: diablo_rojo: tonyb: smcginnis and i noticed that the timestamps/countdown on https://governance.openstack.org/election/ vary depending on the tz of your browser. probably not a great situation since everyone has a different impression of how long they have left to submit nominations and what time the election actually starts... probably need to anchor to utc or something in the page/javascript? | 22:36 |
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| fungi | for me it says PTL nomination End Date is "Aug 09, 2017 23:45 UTC" and that there's 0d1h7m32s remaining | 22:37 |
| fungi | the math works out correct, but for him it presents the end time in his tz and lists 5 additional hours in the countdown | 22:38 |
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| diablo_rojo | fungi, the times and dates have been consistent in the emails. We can try to fix this on the site now, but persia and I are still trying to verify the rolls | 22:39 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm not saying patch it before the election, just wanted to make sure you're aware | 22:40 |
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| persia | fungi: That page is also fairly out of date in terms of the current merged nominees. Not now, but I wonder if we can have it update as part of the post-merge pipeline. | 22:41 |
| tonyb | fungi: Thanks. It might be better to remove it as doing it timzeoe local is a bit hard. | 22:41 |
| tonyb | fungi: something to fix before the TC election | 22:42 |
| persia | Pity, as without timezone restrictions, it's meaningless | 22:42 |
| persia | (there are 50 hours in each calendar day, currently) | 22:42 |
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| fungi | persia: it's updated in the post pipeline, but because of the rc rush and us being down a bunch of ci quota at the moment we're running a backlog in post | 22:44 |
| fungi | looks like post is running nearly 14 hours behind | 22:45 |
| smcginnis | My guess is the end time string just needs a "Z" on the end so it gets interpreted as UTC. | 22:45 |
| fungi | 111 commits with jobs queued | 22:45 |
| fungi | persia: in the past i've recommended to election officials to leave themselves 24-48 hours between the nomination period and the start of the election so they have time to generate and vet rolls. pity i forgot to catch it on the schedule proposal this time | 22:46 |
| persia | fungi: No worries then. I just saw many hours go from git update to posting, so got worried that it might be on cron or something. | 22:46 |
| fungi | that would also have allowed time for the pending post jobs to complete | 22:47 |
| persia | Yes. Allowing ourselves 15 minutes proves not to have been the best practics of foresight. | 22:47 |
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| fungi | genera; patch activity has died down and the ci system is catching up, so i anticipate we'll start burning down the pending commits in the post pipeline here shortly | 22:49 |
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| fungi | unfortunately for this situation, post gets the lowest of the 3 priority levels we can set for pipelines so tends to suffer the longest delays when we're overloaded | 22:50 |
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| smcginnis | Good, check and gate queues are looking much better. | 22:51 |
| persia | I deeply approve of post being the lowest priority. That shows a deep appreciation that the development of openstack is the focus, and the deployment of openstack is largely best-effort except when managed by some downstream. | 22:51 |
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| fungi | or as we like to call it, "eventually consistent" ;) | 23:09 |
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| rama_y | Hi clarkb, posted a patch to enable tls for ironic gate jobs: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/492231/ | 23:14 |
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| tonyb | fungi: there was ~4 days between gerrit update deadline and start of the election | 23:57 |
| tonyb | fungi: I figured that was enough time | 23:57 |
| tonyb | fungi: granted it isn't between nominations closing and start of election but it shoudl have been enough | 23:57 |
| tonyb | fungi, persia, diablo_rojo: I'm not certain why this is so much more complex than before. I look forward to reading the dump of what went wrong | 23:58 |
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