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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Blacklist Pillow 4.1.0 https://review.openstack.org/453513 | 08:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Use case analysis for Golang addition to Openstack https://review.openstack.org/451524 | 08:45 |
| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: [I18n] Renew & add Zanata dev members as extra ATC https://review.openstack.org/451625 | 08:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Clarify project addition process https://review.openstack.org/452073 | 08:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Blacklist Pillow 4.1.0 https://review.openstack.org/453513 | 08:47 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Use case analysis for Golang addition to Openstack https://review.openstack.org/451524 | 09:06 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Clarify project addition process https://review.openstack.org/452073 | 09:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: [I18n] Renew & add Zanata dev members as extra ATC https://review.openstack.org/451625 | 09:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Revert "Blacklist Pillow 4.1.0" https://review.openstack.org/453570 | 10:45 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/governance master: Draft technical committee vision for public feedback https://review.openstack.org/453262 | 11:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Revert "Blacklist Pillow 4.1.0" https://review.openstack.org/453570 | 12:06 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: The Gerrit service on http://review.openstack.org is being restarted to address hung remote replication tasks, and should return to an operable state momentarily | 12:50 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Alexandra Settle proposed openstack/governance master: Add a "docs:follows-policy" tag https://review.openstack.org/445536 | 14:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alexandra Settle proposed openstack/governance master: Add a "docs:follows-policy" tag https://review.openstack.org/445536 | 14:33 |
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| mriedem | hogepodge: i'm surprised that boot from volume isn't part of defcore, is there some doc or reasoning behind that? | 14:42 |
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| hogepodge | mriedem: I think it's because it's not a widely deployed capability | 14:55 |
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| hogepodge | mriedem: I'll ask during the meeting today. I can't find documentation in the obvious places. | 14:55 |
| hogepodge | (obvious to me that is) | 14:55 |
| hogepodge | markvoelker: what do you think about mriedem's question? | 14:56 |
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| mriedem | that's surprising, i figured it would be widely deployed | 14:56 |
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| mriedem | boot from volume is a terrible mess of technical debt in nova so whenever we try to change it, it's tough because of existing use cases | 14:56 |
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| markvoelker | hogepodge: mriedem: Offhand, seems like a thing most clouds support, IMHO. Don't recall if it's been discussed previously in scoring conversations offhand. | 14:58 |
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| hogepodge | mriedem: one question, is boot from volume tested in tempest? | 14:59 |
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| mriedem | hogepodge: most definitely | 14:59 |
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| mriedem | https://github.com/openstack/tempest/blob/master/tempest/scenario/test_volume_boot_pattern.py | 15:00 |
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| mordred | hogepodge: I am not aware of any clouds with cinder that do not have support for boot-from-volume | 15:00 |
| hogepodge | That's the problem, we need a direct API test that's non-administrator | 15:01 |
| hogepodge | We don't admit capabilities that only have scenario tests, yet | 15:01 |
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| mriedem | i can poke around for a non-scenario compute api test for bfv | 15:01 |
| mordred | there's nothing about it that requires admin capabilities | 15:01 |
| mriedem | yeah it's definitely not admin-only | 15:01 |
| hogepodge | Just stating the requirements | 15:01 |
| mriedem | i think tempest historically has used a scenario test b/c it involves multiple services | 15:01 |
| hogepodge | We could certainly add it as a capability | 15:02 |
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| hogepodge | We're evaluating that right now, so it's perfect timing | 15:02 |
| mriedem | ftr, i'm not pushing for it for interop, i was just surprised it wasn't already and was wondering if there was good reason | 15:02 |
| mriedem | because if we removed it or broke it somehow, people would lose it | 15:02 |
| mordred | hogepodge, mriedem: fwiw, https://github.com/openstack-infra/shade/blob/master/shade/tests/functional/test_compute.py#L204 is the shade test that tests it (and shows it not not need admin) | 15:02 |
| hogepodge | That would be the reason, we were working from a set of criteria and that capability didn't pop up on our radar because of it. | 15:02 |
| hogepodge | So if you add an api test, we can score the capability and have it required as early as 2018.01 | 15:03 |
| mordred | ++ | 15:03 |
| hogepodge | (2017.07 ish as advisory) | 15:03 |
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| mriedem | https://github.com/openstack/tempest/blob/master/tempest/api/compute/servers/test_device_tagging.py will test boot from volume in the api, but is a microversion | 15:03 |
| mriedem | so that excludes it from defcore | 15:04 |
| mordred | defcore can't do microversoins? | 15:04 |
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| mriedem | ^ requires 2.32 | 15:04 |
| mriedem | which would mean you'd have to have newton at least to be compliant | 15:04 |
| mordred | mriedem: yah - I think we need to add a specific boot-from-volume test | 15:05 |
| mordred | they don't tend to like tests that test other things by happenstance | 15:05 |
| mriedem | i'm not seeing anything under tempest/api/compute | 15:05 |
| mriedem | gmann: mtreinish: is there a specific reason there are no direct boot from volume tests in the tempest compute api tests? | 15:06 |
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| mriedem | the bfv scenario test is extra messy b/c it relies on ssh'ing into the guest to verify a file that's created between snapshots | 15:06 |
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| mriedem | so when networking or the cirros image goes bad, oops | 15:07 |
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| mtreinish | mriedem: probably just because no one has written one, I would have assumed there was an api test in tempest/api/compute/servers | 15:08 |
| mtreinish | I do know of that scenario test, and there is the ebs volume test too (which I still hate the name of) | 15:09 |
| mriedem | mtreinish: the ebs one is also in scenarios | 15:09 |
| mtreinish | yeah | 15:09 |
| mriedem | but ok | 15:10 |
| mriedem | i didn't find a direct one in the compute api tests | 15:10 |
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| mtreinish | ok, I haven't looked. So if you think that's something we need feel free to throw one up there | 15:10 |
| mriedem | i'm not sure i do, idk :) being in defcore marries us to it right? | 15:10 |
| mtreinish | well only if they pick it | 15:11 |
| mriedem | but honestly i'm pretty sure everyone uses it or provides it, i'd be surprised if there are clouds that don't if they have cinder | 15:11 |
| mtreinish | the subset of tests they pick is weird sometimes | 15:11 |
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| mordred | mriedem: I would consider a cloud with cinder but without bfv to be fundamentally broken at this point | 15:23 |
| mordred | and it would likely cause me to scream at some level | 15:23 |
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| sdague | yeh, I expect this is mostly an accident of where the tests ended up | 15:26 |
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| hogepodge | sdague: it's definitely a function of that | 15:32 |
| sdague | like the whole lack of keystone tests in the first defcore :) | 15:32 |
| hogepodge | mtreinish: in some ways we're just reflecting what's in Tempest. We also have criteria to follow, and some tests use more resources than they need | 15:33 |
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| hogepodge | but yeah, weirdness came out because of our initial decisions on how we used tempest, and our continuing lack of resources to fill in gaps where we need them | 15:33 |
| mriedem | hogepodge: is filling in gaps just writing tests in tempest? | 15:34 |
| mriedem | because that's the easy part really | 15:34 |
| hogepodge | mriedem: generally, yes | 15:34 |
| mriedem | well why didn't someone say something :) we've already got that problem with docs and liaisons for every other imaginable thing | 15:34 |
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| hogepodge | mriedem: sometimes it's rewriting tests, which is also easy. there is a challenge in that many of the defcore wg aren't developers, so that's a barrier. Also time allocation is a barrier. I have a half-written test that's stalled because I haven't finished it | 15:35 |
| mriedem | i wouldn't expect the wg people to write the tests, | 15:35 |
| * mtreinish is still waiting to review hogepodge's new test :) | 15:35 | |
| mriedem | just like product wg people don't write specs or new features | 15:35 |
| hogepodge | mriedem: I've been working with mtreinish for two years now, and establishing that relationship made defcore possible | 15:36 |
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| * hogepodge tips his hat to mtreinish | 15:36 | |
| mriedem | interop wg should be communicating the need to the dev teams for the need for new tests to fill gaps though | 15:36 |
| mriedem | which is something i haven't seen happen | 15:36 |
| hogepodge | mriedem: on things like boot from volume, it wasn't even on our radar until now. now it is, and it'll certainly become a place of active work for our team. sometimes we're just slow | 15:37 |
| mriedem | ok | 15:37 |
| hogepodge | we try to communicate with the PTLs to make sure we've got everything covered. We're trying to not act in a vacuum. I'm really glad you raised it, and I'm a bit embarrassed we didn't think of it earlier tbh. | 15:38 |
| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Include instructions on how to propose changes https://review.openstack.org/453716 | 15:38 |
| hogepodge | mtreinish: seriously, I have some "free" time next week, and that test has been starting at me from my work folder. Its gaze is making me uncomfortable, so I'll do something about it. :-D | 15:39 |
| mtreinish | hogepodge: heh, ok. fwiw, if you just throw up what you have I'd probably just finish it for you :) | 15:40 |
| hogepodge | mriedem: but we've gone to nova and cinder with our lists, and they've given us the thumbs up repeatedly | 15:40 |
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| hogepodge | mtreinish: story of my openstack life | 15:40 |
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| mriedem | hogepodge: i had a conversation with shamail about some proposed additions in newton, | 15:41 |
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| mriedem | then the review came up and i -1ed for some things, and then it stalled for months and eventually it was merged before i got back to it | 15:41 |
| mriedem | i think it came out fine, i just never +1ed the final change | 15:41 |
| mriedem | i think i noted some things i was surprised weren't in there already at the time too | 15:42 |
| mriedem | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/385781/ | 15:42 |
| mriedem | yeah, listing flavors wasn't in the guidelines | 15:42 |
| mriedem | which blew my mind | 15:43 |
| mtreinish | mriedem: that's likely because the flavor tests in tempest are admin (create a flavor and then list) | 15:45 |
| mtreinish | mriedem: it's easy to fix we'd just need a flavor test that checks for the id from config | 15:46 |
| mriedem | mtreinish: there already was one | 15:46 |
| mtreinish | yep, I see that now | 15:46 |
| mtreinish | I just looked | 15:46 |
| mriedem | tempest.api.compute.flavors.test_flavors.FlavorsV2TestJSON.test_list_flavors | 15:46 |
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| hogepodge | mriedem: I'll bring all of these things up in the meeting today | 15:49 |
| hogepodge | because we're working on the next iteration right now | 15:50 |
| mriedem | ok | 15:51 |
| mriedem | sounds good | 15:51 |
| mriedem | you can also tell them that i'm not looking for more work :) | 15:51 |
| mriedem | just looking to complain | 15:51 |
| * hogepodge makes notes to assign all work items to mriedem while he isn't there | 15:53 | |
| mriedem | i can definitely write a test in tempest if that's needed, that's my hobby | 15:54 |
| mriedem | tempest is my mistress when i'm away from nova, in other words | 15:54 |
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| mtreinish | mriedem: you're still in the top 10 for all time commits to tempest | 15:56 |
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| mriedem | YES | 16:00 |
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| cdent | clayg: i feel you | 17:40 |
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| mordred | cdent: I don't think our code of conduct allows that | 17:43 |
| cdent | mordred: i feel you too | 17:43 |
| dims | cdent : clayg : PBR_VERSION still works FWIW, we haven't broken it yet | 17:43 |
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| cdent | dims: it's not the specifics of this instance, and as clay says, it's clear people are trying really hard to make this move forward well | 17:45 |
| cdent | but rather that it's opaque | 17:45 |
| cdent | there's a lot of mystery built into the ways in which pbr can be used | 17:45 |
| cdent | which encourage stopping thinking about it | 17:45 |
| clarkb | cdent: all this should be well documented in pbr itself... | 17:46 |
| cdent | clarkb: yes, I've read it, I know what's going on, I'm not saying "change everything" | 17:46 |
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| cdent | I'm just saying "clayg: i feel you", meaning "I hear ya, bro, shit can be weird sometimes" | 17:46 |
| cdent | which seems like a nice thing to say, no? | 17:46 |
| mordred | cdent: ++ | 17:47 |
| clarkb | sure I was more addressing the "its mysterious" which implies its not documented and is hard to understand | 17:47 |
| dims | cdent : it's not like EmilienM sent out an email "do this or everything will break for you", there was a review filed just because folks know that not everyone is paying attention. so can't figure out what else everyone interested in getting things done across projects have to do | 17:47 |
| clarkb | and I feel like at least for pbr its uch of the opposite | 17:47 |
| mordred | to be fair, I actually _do_ think we encourage people to not worry about what's going on behind the scenes with pbr | 17:47 |
| cdent | clarkb: I can say that though the mechanism is well documented, it's never been quite clear to me _why_ we want that mechanism, but then I'm a grape in the path of progress, I want __version__ to be set by hand | 17:48 |
| dims | cdent that's the PBR_VERSION | 17:48 |
| cdent | no, that's PBR_VERSION | 17:48 |
| mordred | PBR_VERSION is a get out of jail free card for distro packagers and other deployers | 17:48 |
| cdent | it is useful in openstack, and it often works | 17:49 |
| cdent | so I'm a fan of pbr in openstack | 17:49 |
| mordred | it's not a thing that should _normally_ be used by humans | 17:49 |
| dims | cdent : mordred : i really felt offended by "some process OpenStack invented" statement, uncalled for | 17:49 |
| mordred | but folks like clay have legit deployment reasons why they want to override the derived version, so PBR_VERSION exists to empower them to do so | 17:50 |
| dims | may be they should just get rid of pbr just like they don't do g-r/u-c | 17:50 |
| mordred | dims: I don't think escalating the rhetoric is going to solve much | 17:50 |
| clarkb | cdent: I see, so if more of the motivation for why such a feature is desireable was written down that would help? | 17:50 |
| mordred | clarkb: I think that sounds like a good idea and something we should do | 17:50 |
| clarkb | cdent: and do it in pbr docs to avoid digging through historical docs? | 17:51 |
| dims | mordred : sigh | 17:51 |
| clarkb | mordred: yes I agree | 17:51 |
| mordred | turns out there are many whys, but they're unfortunately tribal knowledge at this point | 17:51 |
| cdent | clarkb: I've just written this as an item one: "Telling stories that explain what and why are more useful in the long run than listing rules of how because they lead to a more complete understanding." | 17:51 |
| mordred | cdent: ++ | 17:51 |
| cdent | clarkb: so yeah, short answer yes | 17:51 |
| cdent | and I'm happy to help review if someone points me at it. I'd volunteer to help write it too, but I don't actually know the stories | 17:52 |
| mordred | I think both are helpful - the list of how for folks who don't care, the list of what/why for when they do or when the how is punching them in the face and they're upset | 17:52 |
| * cdent nods | 17:52 | |
| mordred | (I get punchy when I just want to know the one darned step to do and instead I have to read a novel of reasoning) | 17:52 |
| cdent | mordred: I feel you | 17:52 |
| mordred | cdent: wow, such a morning of feeling | 17:53 |
| cdent | must spring or something | 17:53 |
| dims | mordred : i don't like insinuations, everyone is trying to do the right thing, so folks should give each other latitude | 17:53 |
| cdent | s/must/must be/ | 17:53 |
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| clarkb | I think a big part of the frustration here is historical too, in part because very few people expressed their frustrations publicly/upstream when they were having problems. So we should try and foster that kind of feedback even if its cranky (and then do our best on the receiving end to understand the circumstances under which it is given) | 17:56 |
| dims | clarkb : true | 17:58 |
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| EmilienM | cdent: I can feel you too | 18:14 |
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| cdent | EmilienM: I so feel you | 18:17 |
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| EmilienM | cdent: the question now is: do we feel the same things? | 18:18 |
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| cdent | we feel a panpoly of things | 18:18 |
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| cdent | damn, it would help if I could spell | 18:19 |
| clayg | cdent: it's a *very* nice thing to say - thank you :D | 18:19 |
| cdent | panoply | 18:19 |
| cdent | clayg: :) | 18:19 |
| clayg | dims: I'm assuming your question was rhetorical - i wasn't planning on attemping any further elaboration | 18:19 |
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| * cdent dines | 18:21 | |
| dims | clayg : i vented too :) | 18:21 |
| clayg | I am worried about poor EmilienM tho! I'm trying to grok if making a package of a thing while it's working up to a 2.14 release is really reasonable to call the release 2.14? | 18:22 |
| clayg | I guess there's a pre-release semantic of semver | 18:22 |
| clayg | When I build 2.13 + <some commits that are leading up to a 2.14> - I call it 2.13.X | 18:23 |
| clayg | and if I backport to 2.13 I call it 2.13.0.X | 18:24 |
| dims | wish lifeless were around... | 18:24 |
| clayg | dims: I *really* can't find *any* openstack commit log with this magic in them? | 18:24 |
| clayg | dims: am I looking in the wrong place? | 18:25 |
| clayg | I mean I only checked half-a-dozen repos | 18:25 |
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| dims | clayg : easier to check on gerrit - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/419172/ for example | 18:26 |
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| dims | i think EmilienM is trying to make sure everyone knows about it and can start using it | 18:26 |
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| dims | clayg : another one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427643/ | 18:27 |
| clarkb | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pbr-postversion-semver is the genesis of a lot of this stuff <- mordred likely where we want to draw on the why for writing down more properly | 18:29 |
| clarkb | basically pep440 happened and pip enforced it and we had to do things that were sadness | 18:29 |
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| mordred | yah- pep440 is important to read | 18:30 |
| EmilienM | I don't recall if we need to skip a tag if we merge the semver patch? | 18:30 |
| mordred | https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0440/ | 18:30 |
| EmilienM | stupid question but I prefer to be sure | 18:31 |
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| clayg | EmilienM: as best I can tell what you're trying to get pbr to do for you is make it call swift's version 2.14{a|b|rc}N instead of 2.13.devN even before we *have* a 2.14 alpha/beta/rc (assuming we will *have* such a release) | 18:41 |
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| clayg | I would prefer to not have a opinion on how you want to do version your packages. I think decoupling here is great. | 18:43 |
| notmyname | oh my, I didn't see this conversation happening. /me will catch up in a little bit (after picking up a sandwich) | 18:44 |
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| rockyg | notmyname, I'm catching up, too. If I recall some of the history, dhellmann went through heck when the semver stuff got introduced. | 18:51 |
| rockyg | getting pre-release and post-release numbering was a bear. Lots of breakage | 18:51 |
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| clarkb | yes pep440 was the genesis of all that | 18:51 |
| clayg | dims: both of those changes you linked to were "make magic commit to fix opaque someone elses problem" | 18:52 |
| clarkb | it was less the semver (we were already doing that really) and more that pip decided to enforce its own rules | 18:52 |
| * clayg snickers | 18:52 | |
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| clarkb | and the raeson people are noticing this is a problem at all today is because we stopped merging stable back to master to get all the version generation correct | 18:53 |
| dims | clayg : was responding to "I *really* can't find *any* openstack commit log with this magic in them" | 18:53 |
| clarkb | it was felt that that wouldn't cause any real problems (but this is evidence on the contrary) so maybe that should be revistied | 18:53 |
| jroll | fwiw, this hasn't caused ironic any problems, afaik | 18:53 |
| jroll | but we're also cycle-with-intermediary, that might change things? dunno | 18:53 |
| * jroll is fine with it | 18:53 | |
| clayg | ok, well - just the "use case" for this pbr support outlined in the spec was like managing versions for CD - each commit can bump x.y.z default is z - i'm trying to find where it's being used *for that* | 18:54 |
| jroll | each commit bumps a "dev" version, in x.y.z.devNNN, each commit bumps NNN unless otherwise tagged with this sem-ver thing | 18:55 |
| clarkb | clayg: the base case is used anytime you install something | 18:55 |
| clarkb | right ^ that | 18:55 |
| clayg | is it so crazy to look about this from the outside and think it's causing more problems than it's solving? I'm not even sure if EmilienM as the driver for this adoption understands the total effect (him and jroll are asking about if skipping a tag is required; pretty sure not) | 18:55 |
| jroll | I'm not asking if skipping a tag is required, I'm fairly certain it isn't (as we have made these commits in the past and not skipped a tag) | 18:56 |
| jroll | curious what problems it is causing? | 18:56 |
| clayg | jroll: that is true, and not relevant to why it's got a bee in everyone's bonnet this morning - or explaining of why we have to have magic commits when we've never used them before? | 18:56 |
| clayg | jroll: *apparently* if I merge the magic commit and don't ask questions (as dims points out others have done before) there is absolutely no problem at all ;) | 18:57 |
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| dims | clayg : i did not say that | 18:57 |
| jroll | clayg: yeah, I haven't read the ML today, so I don't have full context. why we've never needed them before is a good question | 18:57 |
| clarkb | the problem aiui is we don't merge stable back into master anymore. This means that until something bumps master it will have version numbers that conflict with stable | 18:58 |
| cdent | [t 41oG] | 18:58 |
| purplerbot | <clarkb> and the raeson people are noticing this is a problem at all today is because we stopped merging stable back to master to get all the version generation correct [2017-04-05 18:53:01.884042] [n 41oG] | 18:58 |
| clarkb | EmilienM appears to be trying to work around that by asking projects to bump something | 18:58 |
| cdent | aw, too slow | 18:58 |
| jroll | ah, right | 18:58 |
| clarkb | cdent: :) | 18:58 |
| clarkb | this was a non issue until relatively recently (which is likely why no one noticed or cared) | 18:59 |
| dims | clayg : you have every right to understand the problem and figure it out. just do it together with all of us as folks who worked on this are are not around | 18:59 |
| jroll | and specifically, EmilienM's problem is that dnf won't upgrade the package if current version > new version, right? | 18:59 |
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| clarkb | jroll: I think even pip can be confused if you don't pass the -U option, but ya guessing their rdo packages are sad | 19:01 |
| jroll | clarkb: yeah, I've hit that myself | 19:02 |
| mordred | so - we have two different systems that derive info from git that have competing requirements at the moment - so during this window before the first alpha tag the system that was designed with null-merging stable into master is unavoidably broken | 19:02 |
| jroll | we just don't test upgrades via pip anywhere so nobody has seen it | 19:02 |
| mordred | EmilienM: what I would suggest is that in the tripleo builds you do a null-merge of stable/ocata into master before you make your package. this will mean you will not be able to generate release notes from the git repo in that state, and that your version numbers may be off from what someone else might see for a minute | 19:03 |
| mordred | but it should unbreak you without having to land magic patches in repos that otherwise do not need them | 19:03 |
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| clayg | :) | 19:04 |
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| mordred | I don't think it's correct to have swift land a patch in this context (the other projects that did/could arent' really breaking anything by doing so, but in swift's case it would be communicating information that is not otherwise true) | 19:06 |
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| mordred | (and it's important that you do a null-merge- you don't actually want to change any content in master, you just want to get the tags into the git history) | 19:07 |
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| mordred | without the null-merges that we used to do - the versoin numbers produced by master in the period before the first tag of the next release are bogus anyway-so it's not like the versions you will be producing will be different from something that carries _meaning_ | 19:08 |
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| jroll | everybody could just start releasing frequently, then we wouldn't have this issue :) | 19:10 |
| * jroll stares at the sky with great hope in his eyes | 19:10 | |
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| dims | LOL, i can sign up to help for that jroll | 19:11 |
| jroll | :D | 19:11 |
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| EmilienM | ok I'm back online | 19:14 |
| * EmilienM reads scrollback | 19:14 | |
| * cdent signs up for jroll's newsletter | 19:15 | |
| clayg | EmilienM: apologies in advance my ignorance comes across as me being a jerk! It's a personality flaw - I'm not sure why my friends forgive me. | 19:15 |
| dhellmann | jroll : that change is on my list, but not for this cycle | 19:17 |
| rockyg | clayg, recognition is the first step in changing your behavior ;) | 19:17 |
| jroll | dhellmann: oh my :) | 19:17 |
| * cdent changes subscription to dhellman's newsletter | 19:18 | |
| dhellmann | clarkb : we stopped merging stable branches into master because doing that also introduces lies about the version on master | 19:18 |
| clayg | rockyg: maybe that's it then - my friends have false hope I won't always be like this? | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | dhellmann: right, I'm not trying to argue that it was a bad decision, merely pointing out why this is all of a sudden new to people | 19:20 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : we made that change a year ago (or more? after vancouver), so I think this is new because we have a project doing package-based upgrade testing and they're mixing stable and master in a way we didn't anticipate | 19:21 |
| dhellmann | s/a project/some projects/ | 19:21 |
| EmilienM | clarkb: don't worry, I didn't have all the context and history here, I didn't know it was a so hot topic | 19:21 |
| clayg | swift-2.13.1.dev106 < that seems like a pretty accurate picture of where we're at, swift-2.14.0.dev107 after the patch is *very* questionable | 19:21 |
| EmilienM | damn | 19:21 |
| EmilienM | I wanted to say that to clayg :D | 19:21 |
| EmilienM | clarkb: not you | 19:21 |
| dhellmann | and to fill in the rest of the context, we used to handle this situation with patches to set the version string in setup.cfg, but that complicates the release process (you have to land the patch before tagging, then remove the patch after tagging) | 19:22 |
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| dhellmann | using post-versioning based only on tags simplifies the release orchestration significantly | 19:22 |
| clayg | EmilienM: in all fairness I may have escalated things because I see coupling where others see "consistency" | 19:22 |
| clayg | EmilienM: then I got confused because I felt like everyone around me was acting like "oh, you didn't *know*? wow." | 19:22 |
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| EmilienM | mordred: I'll discuss with rdo folks and the guys who maintain delorean about what you said. I have to admit I'm not familiar enough with the tool | 19:24 |
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| dhellmann | EmilienM : IIRC, you want to do "git merge --strategy ours origin/stable/ocata" into a master branch (that merges the branches, but takes the code changes from the master branch instead of actually trying to merge the content of the files). fungi may be able to help you find the spot where we were doing this in an infra tool before | 19:28 |
| * notmyname back with lunch | 19:28 | |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : however, be aware, that the version number you get after that is still not accurate. | 19:28 |
| clarkb | it will be non conflicting though | 19:29 |
| fungi | dhellmann: EmilienM: yep, i can track down our example, the script may even still be sitting there | 19:29 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: maybe? when there are only a few patches in each branch of a project not using pre-release version numbers it might conflict. | 19:29 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : i.e., swift or an oslo library | 19:30 |
| dhellmann | or ironic, I think | 19:30 |
| dhellmann | it works better for projects that use alphas and betas, because the final release version does only appear on the stable branch before doing the merge | 19:30 |
| dhellmann | fungi : thanks | 19:30 |
| clarkb | ah | 19:30 |
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| dhellmann | EmilienM : clayg pointed out the PBR_VERSION variable in his email. That's another possible option (have the rdo job set that when building the package, instead of doing the merge) | 19:31 |
| EmilienM | I wish RDO tooling maintainers would be on this channel | 19:32 |
| dhellmann | I always forget about that feature, but it's there to let distros set the package version number to be different from what pbr would generate automatically, and that seems like the situation you have here. | 19:32 |
| fungi | right, pbr's version override envvars were added expressly so distro package maintainers could do that | 19:32 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : eavesdrop.o.o is your friend :-) | 19:32 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: I'll contact them for sure | 19:33 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : I would even be open to adding a feature to the pbr command line to do something like "compute the current version but then 'round up' to the next major/minor series" to make it easier for the rdo tools to set that variable | 19:33 |
| dhellmann | I mean, I'd review a patch like that, but one of them would need to write it | 19:33 |
| clarkb | its unfortunate pep440 forced us to drop the sha1 info from versions, As having that today would avoid all the problems | 19:34 |
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| dhellmann | then you could do "export PBR_VERSION=$(pbr next-major)" or something | 19:34 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : yes :-/ | 19:34 |
| dhellmann | hrm, no, it wouldn't | 19:35 |
| dhellmann | the stable branch would still be x.0.0 and master would be x-1.0.0.a1 or something | 19:35 |
| dhellmann | rc1 I mean | 19:35 |
| * EmilienM invokes apevec | 19:35 | |
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| fungi | dhellmann: EmilienM: the script in question was removed in change 333421 but you can still find it there of course | 19:37 |
| fungi | took a bit of digging | 19:37 |
| dhellmann | fungi : cool, thanks | 19:37 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: if you had a trailing git sha they would all be unique though | 19:37 |
| dhellmann | unique, but not increasing | 19:38 |
| fungi | which isn't something you can ever guarantee when switching branches anyway | 19:38 |
| dhellmann | the issue here is that the "newer" package appears to have an older version number, so telling yum to upgrade it doesn't do what you expect | 19:38 |
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| fungi | unless you can predict what the next minimum version on the master branch is going to be and can guarantee it will never be less than any future version on the stable branch, at which point we're back to the old days of manually setting the next version number instead of just following semver | 19:40 |
| dhellmann | for these jobs, I think it's safe to just do something to ensure that the number is higher (it doesn't have to be 'real') | 19:41 |
| dhellmann | so a pbr next-major command to set PBR_VERSION would do it, just like EmilienM's patches to introduce the api breaking thing do | 19:41 |
| dhellmann | except they would only be used within the test job | 19:41 |
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| number80 | o/ | 19:46 |
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| notmyname | soooo... we *should* land EmilienM's patch? or EmilienM is going to use PBR_VERSION instead? or a new script will be invented to solve this? | 19:51 |
| notmyname | what's the next step? | 19:51 |
| dhellmann | notmyname : you don't need to land the patch; we'll keep working on an alternative solution | 19:51 |
| EmilienM | I'm not active on the RDO tooling atm, but I poke the right folks | 19:51 |
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| notmyname | ok | 19:52 |
| dhellmann | there are ways to do this that don't involve inserting extra data or commits into our repos upstream | 19:52 |
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| SamYaple | can someone help me understand how versioning is pulled for a project. If I shallow clone (--depth 1) it installs the correct versions of the project code wise, but it is showing up as keystone-0.0.0 (using keystone as an example) | 20:50 |
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| clarkb | SamYaple: pbr inspects the git repo history to construct a semver and pep440 intersection proper version | 20:51 |
| clarkb | it can't do that with no git history | 20:51 |
| SamYaple | clarkb: thanks. thats what i was afraid of. Building in a container I cannot use the /opt/git cache in the gate so i switched to --depth 1 to pull as little as possible | 20:52 |
| SamYaple | ill have to think about this one | 20:52 |
| clarkb | why can't you use the cache? | 20:52 |
| clarkb | couldn't you bindmount it in? | 20:52 |
| SamYaple | not at build time, no | 20:53 |
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| SamYaple | its a much requested never-going-to-happen feature, according to the devs | 20:53 |
| clarkb | fwiw you can totally do it with dib... | 20:53 |
| SamYaple | centos docker has a fork that has build time mounts, but its not official | 20:53 |
| clarkb | (and dib will make container images) | 20:53 |
| SamYaple | yea its a limitation of docker here | 20:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Monty Taylor proposed openstack/governance master: Add TC repo project-navigator-data https://review.openstack.org/453867 | 20:55 |
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| mordred | SamYaple: but I mean - you can use dib to make docker images and dib does support build-time bind mounting | 20:58 |
| SamYaple | mordred: the image i create is less than 50MB in total and takes less than 2 minutes to build though | 20:59 |
| mordred | SamYaple: you could alternately make an sdist on the host and copy that in - it doesn't need git in the container | 20:59 |
| SamYaple | yea but that falls under "external tooling" | 21:00 |
| mordred | SamYaple: can you explain that with different words? I'm lost | 21:00 |
| SamYaple | this single command builds keystone -- `docker build https://github.com/openstack/loci-keystone.git#:debian` | 21:00 |
| mordred | ah | 21:00 |
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| mordred | SamYaple: I mean- you could just have loci-keystone fetch the sdist tarball of master we have already build | 21:01 |
| mordred | SamYaple: instead of doing agit clone | 21:01 |
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| mordred | you're already installing curl and using it for something | 21:02 |
| mordred | SamYaple: http://tarballs.openstack.org/keystone/keystone-master.tar.gz (same url pattern for all openstack projects) | 21:02 |
| SamYaple | while that is true, that doesnt mesh with long term goals. Which include being able to do a Depends-On from keystone and testing that refs/zuul merger | 21:02 |
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| mordred | SamYaple: you're making this all sorts of fun :) | 21:03 |
| SamYaple | hey im jsut showing this is thought out | 21:03 |
| mordred | yah - no, it's great | 21:03 |
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| mordred | the complex problems with mutliple hard bits are the fun ones | 21:03 |
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| cdent | EmilienM: are you familiar with the way the telemetry crew does (or maybe did) integration testing amongst gnocchi, ceilo, heat, nova using gabbi? | 21:04 |
| SamYaple | mordred: mind you this doesnt affect the _code_ thats running, so in the short term we may just tag it with the pbr version from the outside (inside the container will still read 0.0.0) | 21:04 |
| mordred | yah | 21:04 |
| SamYaple | not ideal, but workable for the moment | 21:04 |
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| mordred | SamYaple: I'll keep trying to think of a way for you to get correct data | 21:05 |
| mordred | is you concern with shallow-clone image size or build time? | 21:05 |
| SamYaple | mordred: neither actually. just reducing load on gate. it doesnt affect either of those significantly since we throw away the cloned repo after install | 21:06 |
| SamYaple | it does affect build time _outside_ the gate though | 21:06 |
| SamYaple | but hey, we are talking sub 2 minutes, adding 20-30 seconds is 25% build time increase | 21:07 |
| mordred | SamYaple: yah - k. my brain was thinking you could do the full clone, do the install then throw it away - but if you're already doing that, then meh | 21:08 |
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| SamYaple | ill bring it up, we may go back to it if inner container versioning is important in the short term | 21:08 |
| SamYaple | im going to push on docker to see the build time bind mount happen | 21:08 |
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| mordred | SamYaple: so- can you pass in repo location for when you're building in the gate? (I'm guessing that's what those ARG lines are for) | 21:10 |
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| SamYaple | yes. right now we pass in http://zm08.openstack.org/p/openstack/loci and refs/zuul/master/Z29c833971e6a4e0d86ae8b92f295b627 for the SCRIPTS_* | 21:11 |
| SamYaple | the PROJECT_* variables are default (unless we do a Depends-On for keystone) | 21:11 |
| SamYaple | bear in mind i just got the ZUUL stuff working and merged this morning | 21:12 |
| mordred | nice | 21:12 |
| SamYaple | so it may be a bit off, but these are the goals we have | 21:12 |
| mordred | so - doesn't solve you actual issue - but a thought I had related to that | 21:12 |
| lbragstad | sdague in the Next Steps section of https://dague.net/2015/06/05/the-nova-api-in-kilo-and-beyond-2/ you elude to dynamic policy as a path forward for something that sounds like capabilities, is that assumption correct? | 21:12 |
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| SamYaple | mordred: yes please. think for me! | 21:12 |
| mordred | is that you could spin up a docker container running a git server in with a volume on /opt/git and serving all of the files - then pass in http://localhost:port/openstack/keystone | 21:13 |
| SamYaple | ok. i did not know you could do a cache like that | 21:13 |
| SamYaple | i thought it had to be local filesystem | 21:13 |
| mordred | as a way to use the local git cache | 21:13 |
| SamYaple | oh wait | 21:14 |
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| SamYaple | you mean setup a git server outside and pass that server in and clone through that git server | 21:14 |
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| mordred | yah - I mean spin up a transitive contianer running an http daemon to serve the git repos in the cache | 21:14 |
| SamYaple | interesting thought. that would absoultely work | 21:14 |
| mordred | yah | 21:14 |
| SamYaple | i dont know how to do that. but yea, thats perfect | 21:15 |
| mordred | since you've got all of the other mechanism for that already | 21:15 |
| SamYaple | how would i get it to mesh with the zuul stuff? (does it have a mirror type option where it checks local before going external)? | 21:15 |
| mordred | do you could actually have your gate script run zuul-cloner, then pop the server container on top of that - and then boom you're all set for depends on and whatnot | 21:15 |
| SamYaple | oh good point | 21:16 |
| mordred | SamYaple: yha - you just run zuul-cloner, and it'll make use of the cache and get you all the things you need | 21:16 |
| SamYaple | yup | 21:16 |
| SamYaple | thats a great point | 21:16 |
| mordred | which will be sexy | 21:16 |
| SamYaple | you think smart man! | 21:16 |
| SamYaple | cool. well I know how to do all of that! so this should me a piece of cake | 21:16 |
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| SamYaple | i could just document a similiar process for outside teh gate if people have issues cloning from github/git.o.o | 21:17 |
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| mordred | ++ | 21:22 |
| mordred | "clone your things into a repo, run this image on top of them, passin this value" | 21:23 |
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| EmilienM | cdent: i'm not, sorry | 21:32 |
| EmilienM | cdent: but I can point you to a repo | 21:32 |
| cdent | EmilienM: the reason I mention it is because it might help on your pingtest, tempest thing. it fits in the "run a script to do some tests" option | 21:32 |
| EmilienM | cdent: not sure it's related https://github.com/jd/pifpaf/tree/master/pifpaf/drivers | 21:32 |
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| EmilienM | cdent: yeah, exactly | 21:33 |
| cdent | you can write api scenarios in gabbi's yaml, and then run with http://gabbi.readthedocs.io/en/latest/runner.html | 21:33 |
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| EmilienM | I wish I wouldn't have to write anything and just use tempest | 21:33 |
| EmilienM | (like we do in puppet ci) | 21:33 |
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| EmilienM | I think tempest would meet our needs | 21:34 |
| cdent | but? | 21:34 |
| EmilienM | but some folks in tripleo project are resistent to use it in gate | 21:34 |
| EmilienM | because 1. it's something we don't really control and 2. it takes time | 21:34 |
| EmilienM | I think 1. is a false problem and 1. can be fixed by select what we need | 21:35 |
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| cdent | huh | 21:36 |
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| cdent | I might respond on that thread tomorrow, just to provide the option, if it's not going anywhere, but for now I think it's way past close of business. | 21:39 |
| * cdent waves goodnight | 21:39 | |
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| mordred | EmilienM: I'd argue that 1 is, in fact, an important part of the point | 21:44 |
| EmilienM | mordred: we adopted tempest in puppet CI and we really like it | 21:45 |
| EmilienM | things broke quite some times for us and tempest folks are super responsive | 21:45 |
| EmilienM | but I agree we would loose some control in the actual tooling used for testing | 21:46 |
| mordred | EmilienM: so - in addition to that - I'd love to add a job that runs shade's functional tests on a cloud deployed by tripleo | 21:46 |
| mordred | EmilienM: (I started working on doing a similar thing for kolla-ansible too) | 21:47 |
| EmilienM | oh wow | 21:47 |
| EmilienM | mordred: where can I see the kolla-ansible work you did? I could help there | 21:47 |
| mordred | from my end it gets me testing against different cloud configs - but from yours if you ran it too, it would give you more tests | 21:47 |
| EmilienM | for sure | 21:48 |
| EmilienM | I would love doing that | 21:48 |
| mordred | EmilienM: it's very basic so far - I was starting to add emitting clouds.yaml | 21:48 |
| * mordred getes link | 21:48 | |
| EmilienM | but wait, shade is a bug no? :) | 21:48 |
| mordred | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/452005/ | 21:48 |
| mordred | EmilienM: not anymore ... now it's a feature! :) | 21:48 |
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| SamYaple | all bugs are features | 21:50 |
| EmilienM | mordred: ok, interesting. It would be nice to investigate tripleo too, maybe it fits with tripleo-quickstart-extras (and I've heard you're familiar with Ansible) | 21:50 |
| clarkb | mordred: I dunno I think the featurization of it is the biggest bug of them all :P | 21:50 |
| EmilienM | mordred: I can take an action to look at it and try it in tripleo, but not before pike-2 starts | 21:50 |
| clarkb | "fixing openstack was too hard so we decided to just use the shim infra made everywhere" | 21:50 |
| mordred | clarkb: :) | 21:51 |
| mordred | EmilienM: cool- no rush. it's pretty easy to get started up as soon as there is a clouds.yaml with an admin user and a non-admin user | 21:51 |
| SamYaple | i really was expecting more shade push back, instead ive heard nothing but love | 21:51 |
| SamYaple | well, love and confusion | 21:52 |
| mordred | SamYaple: well, luckily it solves people's problems, so that's a good thing | 21:52 |
| mordred | heh. when do we not have confusion | 21:52 |
| EmilienM | mordred: I don't expect crazy results from share running in tripleo. Tripleo clouds are I think using standard things but I might be wrong | 21:52 |
| mordred | EmilienM: yah - it _should_ just be a nice green dot | 21:52 |
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| EmilienM | mordred: if not, will we be punished? | 21:53 |
| mordred | EmilienM: severly | 21:53 |
| EmilienM | like on the forum, etc like old times | 21:53 |
| mordred | EmilienM: but mostly just with mocking | 21:53 |
| mordred | cause, you know, it will have worked in devstack ;) | 21:53 |
| EmilienM | :-) | 21:54 |
| EmilienM | you won't get me started | 21:54 |
| * EmilienM has self-control | 21:54 | |
| clarkb | SamYaple: mordred right I think it solving a lot of real issues (like networking, yay floating IPs and ipv4 vs ipv6 and image uploads) makes people happy. On the flip side, those things should be easy in the openstack apis | 21:54 |
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| mordred | clarkb: they should - but maybe we reach the point where shade is a pass-through on modern clouds and is only doing extra logic on older clouds | 21:56 |
| clarkb | mordred: problem is a lot of those issues aren't actually be fixed in new clouds either... | 21:56 |
| clarkb | iamge uploads maybe. But I haven't really seen much traction in the simplify netowrking front | 21:57 |
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| clarkb | config drive's ipv6 vs ipv6_dhcp vs $newthing is sort of an example of that problem | 21:57 |
| clarkb | basically we have no proper model there and so its a mess everywhere we try to resolve it into something resolving a model | 21:59 |
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| clarkb | because dhcp doesn't actually nmean dhcp and so on | 21:59 |
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| clayg | sdague: clarkb: looking at USE_SYSTEMD=True - keystone logs are still in the screen - is that expected or did I do something wrong? | 23:46 |
| clarkb | clayg: I'm not sure how sdague handled the things that run in apache. Its possible the dumping to screen for those needs cleaning up more | 23:47 |
| clarkb | clayg: since keystone is really just mod_wsgi in apache its different than say nova | 23:47 |
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| clayg | I'm also struggling to understand how on my xenial vm /etc/init.d/apache2 ties into systemd - it seems that restarting keystone (loaded into apache via mod_wsgi) is *not* going to be part of sudo systemctl restart devstack@* | 23:49 |
| clayg | ... which I'm not sure is even really working for me :D | 23:49 |
| clayg | sudo systemctl status apache2 - why doesn't find /etc/systemd/ | grep apache find the servcie definition for that... | 23:51 |
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| clarkb | oh looks like it might be uwsgi now in which case it would work like normal | 23:51 |
| clarkb | clayg: its likely in /usr/lib/system/systemd | 23:52 |
| clarkb | sorry /usr/lib/systemd/system | 23:52 |
| clarkb | ya so it looks like if you want to have keystone participate in the systemd things like the other services you have to use uwsgi | 23:53 |
| clayg | find /usr/lib/systemd | grep apahce is empty /etc/init.d/apache2 looks like a fully legit sysV init script - very strange | 23:53 |
| clarkb | oh then ubuntu is using its sysv compat layer | 23:54 |
| clarkb | clayg: basically you can sort of kind of still use sysv scripts with systemd | 23:54 |
| clayg | I'm familiar with uwsgi - but unclear by "you have to use uwsgi" - is that *currently* a devstack option? | 23:55 |
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| clarkb | clayg: yes devstack supports settting KEYSTONE_DEPLOY to uwsgi. It looks like if you do that then also setting the use systemd flag will deploy a uwsgi'd keystone with systemd | 23:55 |
| clarkb | otherwise its part of apache and would need to be restarted separately | 23:55 |
| clayg | clarkb: coolio! | 23:56 |
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