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| nikhil | mc_nair: k sure | 00:02 |
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| nikhil | mc_nair: on member+images: it won't necessarily on image quota but it will on image-sharing so, all the new custom images created for image sharing won't be shared. This means unnecessary logic on the users' part to understand how they can re-distribute shared images. of course, this is a corner case and I was hinting the same. | 00:04 |
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| ardengourlay | hello?? | 08:48 |
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| ogzy | i want to create custom roles for users, but for network apis for ex read only, rw and delete properties included type roles, any sample for for it? i just found cloud admin sample | 09:43 |
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| ogzy | anybody knows where the rackspace policy files are? | 10:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dougal Matthews proposed openstack/governance: Automatically generate the project team index as a table https://review.openstack.org/286533 | 12:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dougal Matthews proposed openstack/governance: Automatically generate the project team index as a table https://review.openstack.org/286533 | 12:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dougal Matthews proposed openstack/governance: Automatically generate the project team index as a table https://review.openstack.org/286533 | 12:30 |
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| mriedem | jamespage: good morning, i saw http://tracker.ceph.com/issues/13757 | 14:54 |
| mriedem | so if ceph firefly is EOL, | 14:55 |
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| mriedem | would ubuntu patch the package themselves? | 14:55 |
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| jamespage | mriedem, yes | 15:00 |
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| mriedem | great | 15:01 |
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| mriedem | we're going to make the ceph job non-voting until that's done so we can stop some of the gate reset that's happening, the ceph job is at 25% failure rates right now | 15:02 |
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| mtreinish | dhellmann: is there a recommended way to put external links in reno release notes? | 15:46 |
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| mtreinish | I tried the normal sphinx markup: http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/stable/rest.html#external-links but it didn't work (sphinx fails to build the docs) | 15:46 |
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| sdague | bknudson: got any time to look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1551312 | 16:13 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1551312 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Python unit tests don't run in a clean 15.10 environment" [Undecided,New] | 16:13 |
| sdague | the answer might just be I can't contribute to keystone | 16:13 |
| sdague | but I would like to figure out what is wrong | 16:13 |
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| bknudson | sdague: does git status show missing files? | 16:13 |
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| sdague | nope, added | 16:14 |
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| bknudson | sdague: let me make sure that when I run the tests I run those ones. | 16:14 |
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| sdague | gdi, this is the pyc issue | 16:15 |
| bknudson | keystone.tests.unit.test_ldap_livetest shouldn't run unless you have some environment variable set | 16:15 |
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| sdague | bknudson: https://review.openstack.org/286687 is how we solved it in nova | 16:22 |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish : you may have to escape the rst from the yaml parser -- have a link to a patch? I may be able to help. | 16:26 |
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| knikolla | What would be the best way to store a second auth object in the RequestContext? Assuming a second token to a second openstack. | 16:26 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: I can push it up, I was testing things locally | 16:26 |
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| mtreinish | dhellmann: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286695/ | 16:27 |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish : looking | 16:30 |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish : check my update to your patch. Use | instead of > to preserve whitespace. You can use "reno report ." to see what the rst looks like for debugging. | 16:35 |
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| mtreinish | dhellmann: ok, cool thanks | 16:36 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : I'll make sure the examples in the docs mention that | 16:36 |
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| stevemar | sdague: nice | 16:49 |
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| Bulacco | hi, i'm a new developer, or i hope to be, i need only one simple info at ones. For a toy accademic project, I need to modify openstack api allowing nova to retrive a new custom parameter. I need that parameter in the scheduler. My question is what is the class that i need to modify to reach the goal? | 19:47 |
| Bulacco | i don't know if i'm in the correct channel | 19:47 |
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| anteaya | hi Bulacco | 20:00 |
| anteaya | okay well have you come across devstack yet at all? | 20:00 |
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| anteaya | this our developer environment for openstack: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-dev/devstack/ | 20:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Add a "stable:follows-policy" tag https://review.openstack.org/277918 | 20:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Armando Migliaccio proposed openstack/governance: WIP: Add assert:supports-rolling-upgrade to Neutron https://review.openstack.org/286817 | 20:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Clarify test-only license requirements https://review.openstack.org/279999 | 20:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Applying Tacker for Big Tent https://review.openstack.org/276417 | 20:44 |
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| thingee | therve: interested in discussing this in next week's cross-project meeting? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/231382/ | 21:03 |
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| lifeless | mordred: GPL in Python is nuts, full stop | 21:23 |
| lifeless | mordred: that *said*, the intent of the author matters, and the intent one can reasonably infer when someone chooses GPL is 'you can only use this from GPL compatible licenses' | 21:24 |
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| mordred | lifeless: that may be the intent - but the GPL is not a EULA | 21:31 |
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| mordred | and never will be | 21:31 |
| mordred | it's a license covering conditions of copying | 21:31 |
| mordred | and redistribution | 21:31 |
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| lifeless | mordred: yes, I did not claim it was a EULA | 21:33 |
| lifeless | mordred: why is it not being a EULA relevant? | 21:33 |
| mordred | 'you can only use this from GPL compatible licenses' | 21:34 |
| mordred | active verb - use | 21:34 |
| lifeless | rephrasing | 21:34 |
| lifeless | when someone chooses GPL for a library, their presumed expectation is that the GPL will cause derivatives to have to be GPL | 21:35 |
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| lifeless | while the technicalities of 'is a derivative' are different between C and Python | 21:35 |
| lifeless | the commonality of 'uses the interface' makes a reasonable point for reasoning about it | 21:35 |
| lifeless | particularly with the oracle v google case on interface copyright | 21:36 |
| mordred | lifeless: right. but I think that the technicalities here are actually quite important - unfortunate as that may be for a body the size of the TC to have a discussion about it - and even more unfortunate given that the TC does not have legal counsel | 21:36 |
| lifeless | if we use scapy in our code, our code is arguably a derivative | 21:36 |
| mordred | lifeless: one could argue that | 21:36 |
| lifeless | for the GPL to make any sense on a Python project, that has to be the interpretation of the author | 21:37 |
| mordred | sure. but interpretation of the author is not how the law works | 21:37 |
| lifeless | I know | 21:37 |
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| lifeless | but its at best disrespectful | 21:38 |
| mordred | possibly so | 21:38 |
| lifeless | I agree that the technicalities are important; being part of the community is also | 21:38 |
| mordred | yah - but also the current thing is leading to more "GPL is bad" bs fud | 21:39 |
| lifeless | I don't think the GPL is bad | 21:39 |
| mordred | I know _you_ don't | 21:39 |
| lifeless | but we're in an island | 21:39 |
| lifeless | because we chose ASLv2 | 21:39 |
| mordred | right. and I'm saying I do not think that that island is as absolute as that | 21:39 |
| lifeless | its a pretty big island - lots of MIT, BSD, ASLv2 code | 21:39 |
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| mordred | nor warrants a "we cannot touch things that are GPL" | 21:39 |
| lifeless | I think we can touch it; we can't "link" or otherwise derive from it. | 21:40 |
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| mordred | which gets us back to definition of derived work | 21:41 |
| lifeless | right | 21:41 |
| mordred | turns out it's not possible to reach consensus on the issue of how to deal with a license that deals with derived work without a shared understanding of derived work | 21:41 |
| lifeless | and the ultimate arbiter is going to be court | 21:41 |
| mordred | :) | 21:41 |
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| mordred | except that the chances of the court ever ruling on this matter as it relates to python libraries are next to none | 21:42 |
| lifeless | I know that e.g. Canonical consider 'import bzrlib' to make something a derivative of bzr | 21:42 |
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| mordred | lifeless: yes. but they also consider the word 'ubuntu' in the debian version string to attach trademark infringement rules that limit redistribution abilities even in the face of the terms of the GPL | 21:45 |
| mordred | lifeless: so, I may not be taking legal advice from them | 21:45 |
| lifeless | mordred: not suggesting we do | 21:45 |
| mordred | :) | 21:45 |
| lifeless | mordred: when two parties disagree on the definition though | 21:45 |
| lifeless | mordred: they are unlikely to agree on actions based on that definition | 21:45 |
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| lifeless | technicalities aside | 21:45 |
| mordred | lifeless: yup. I agree with that | 21:45 |
| lifeless | The question is - do we want to be 'the project that uses a library the library author believes is license incompatible with the project' | 21:46 |
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| mordred | lifeless: I would like us to use judgement as to whether it's a derived work instead of just having a broad rule | 21:48 |
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| lifeless | mordred: I would like us to talk to the other party when there is a potential dispute | 21:49 |
| mordred | lifeless: I mean, I think the argument could be made much more that nova is a derived work of libvirt than that it might become a derived work by the addition of the use of a testing library | 21:49 |
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| lifeless | mordred: e.g. when we're doing something different to the community norms | 21:49 |
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| mordred | lifeless: I think the linus point about AFS from the eben article here is particularly salient | 21:49 |
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| lifeless | libvirt's python bindings are LGPL | 21:49 |
| mordred | it's not a derived work - it's a whole other thing that happened to grow an interface | 21:49 |
| lifeless | so we're fine there | 21:49 |
| mordred | I'm still talking about fundemantal nature of derivatoin | 21:50 |
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| lifeless | (LPGL 2+ in fact) | 21:50 |
| lifeless | ok | 21:50 |
| mordred | there are things that are actual derived works | 21:50 |
| mordred | and we know it | 21:50 |
| mordred | there are things that are not derived works and we know that | 21:50 |
| mordred | and there are some grey areas | 21:50 |
| mordred | the grey areas I would like to treat with judgement rather than a rubric | 21:50 |
| lifeless | using an interface is grey area IMO | 21:50 |
| lifeless | why? | 21:51 |
| lifeless | let me expand... | 21:51 |
| mordred | yes, I understand that - but applying the reasoning in eben's article to the situation | 21:51 |
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| mordred | growing a few function calls into a library does not suddently make the application a derived work | 21:51 |
| lifeless | so eben has one take, and the SFC has come out with nearly the opposite take :/ | 21:51 |
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| lifeless | but lets step back further | 21:52 |
| lifeless | we don't care about whether we are a derivative or not many times | 21:52 |
| lifeless | I'd just like to check that you're not proposing making every requirements addition a TC grey area discussion | 21:52 |
| mordred | golly no | 21:52 |
| lifeless | ok good | 21:52 |
| mordred | I'm just saing - there is a definitive grey area somewhere in here | 21:53 |
| lifeless | so, we're only talking about the cases where 'are we deriving' would change our ability to use a thing | 21:53 |
| mordred | so I'd like to treat the actual grey area as one | 21:53 |
| mordred | rather than make a hard and fast rule ahead of itme | 21:53 |
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| lifeless | so I don't actually care about the grey area answer | 21:54 |
| lifeless | I don't want to be in the position of consuming a library the author doesn't think we should be able to | 21:54 |
| lifeless | I'm ok with having a 'and we need to discuss' callout in those potential cases | 21:55 |
| mordred | awesome | 21:55 |
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| mordred | see, we were about to (or might be about to) tip into a slightly different long-running philosophical argument I love | 21:56 |
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| lifeless | but I'm not ok if we decide our interpretation of technicalities that results in an upstream author thinking their license is being violated | 21:56 |
| lifeless | thats a principled thing for me | 21:56 |
| mordred | which is "what, if anyhting, does the author's intent matter in the content of the consumptions of that author's work" | 21:56 |
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| lifeless | it only matters to the extent we care about respect and community :) | 21:56 |
| lifeless | I'm fairly sure we would be unhappy if someone followed the letter of the ASLv2 but didn't respect our community norms | 21:57 |
| lifeless | I'm fairly sure on that because we *get unhappy* about that, all the time. | 21:57 |
| mordred | lifeless: I'm pretty sure that happens literally every day | 21:57 |
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| lifeless | We would be hypocritical if we didn't extend the same respect we want to our upstreams. | 21:58 |
| mordred | well, in this case we deserve what we get because we chose the ASL | 21:58 |
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| mordred | but I understand your point - I just come at the topic from the background of a theatre artist who has had to deal with the differences in ability to interpert between things in and out of current copyright, and what effect that has to viability of a robust and flourishing community | 21:59 |
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| mordred | it is clearly a different subject matter | 21:59 |
| mordred | and has different ins and outs | 21:59 |
| mordred | but there is a longer conversaion I'd love to have over wine/beer at some point | 22:00 |
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| lifeless | So - the thing I think would make me happy is to know that using GPL will never be something we assume we can do | 22:00 |
| mordred | for now, I think a 'we need to discuss' call out is fine | 22:00 |
| lifeless | I would like that conversation sometime | 22:00 |
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| lifeless | mordred: is there an active review I should summarise our conclusion on? | 22:04 |
| mordred | lifeless: I think? | 22:04 |
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