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| dnovosel | clarkb, Just an FYI that Richard patched it already, and the patch gets the test past the earlier failure point. | 01:30 |
|---|---|---|
| dnovosel | clarkb, Thanks for the help. | 01:30 |
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| bishtsandSandeep | hi | 06:17 |
| bishtsandSandeep | I am a java developer and need to contribute in Oenstack | 06:17 |
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| HerrNerdinger | Hi @ll | 13:40 |
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| HerrNerdinger | got a question about the benchmarksystem rally and Datadrives which can not be deleted by the system. is there another way to do that? | 13:40 |
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| jgriffith | mriedem: jogo When you get a chance https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159495/ | 15:12 |
| mriedem | just saw that in -qa | 15:13 |
| mriedem | looking | 15:13 |
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| jgriffith | mriedem: Oh... yeah, I know better than to ping on these | 15:13 |
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| mriedem | no it's probably worthwhile, i haven't been good about reading gerrit email lately | 15:14 |
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| jgriffith | mriedem: but honestly I can't deal with my away log being completely filled with these rechecks any more :) | 15:14 |
| mriedem | i just happened to be staring at the -qa channel at the right time :) | 15:14 |
| jgriffith | :) | 15:14 |
| jgriffith | mriedem: so I've had ZERO luck reproducing this, and the one conf change we talked about it doesn't appear to be the issue (didn't think it would be) | 15:14 |
| jgriffith | figure I'll give it a bit more time with a cleaner query and see what happens | 15:15 |
| jgriffith | mriedem: the other thing that I stumbled across was apparntly Gluster has some special things around this | 15:15 |
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| jgriffith | but it didn't look like nodepool deploy was "chaning" anything here | 15:15 |
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| mriedem | glusterfs isn't used in the gate is it? | 15:16 |
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| etoews | sigmavirus24 i'm not going to be able to attend the api wg meeting in 20 mintues. can you kick it off? | 15:39 |
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| etoews | sigmavirus24 cyeoh elmiko jaypipes miguelgrinberg ryansb kaufer cdent anyone: can someone please kickoff the api wg meeting in 10 mintues today? | 15:50 |
| etoews | (apologies for the spamming) | 15:50 |
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| ryansb | etoews: Sorry, I have a call starting at 11 so I'll be in the "regrets" column for today's meeting | 15:51 |
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| sigmavirus24 | etoews will do | 15:57 |
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| etoews | sigmavirus24: muchas gracias | 15:57 |
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| sigmavirus24 | gilliard: you there? | 16:52 |
| sigmavirus24 | #openstack-meeting-3 is holding the API-WG and your topic is about to come up | 16:53 |
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| sigmavirus24 | etoews: elarson cdent miguelgrinberg it seems we might have a good crowd for an #openstack-api channel | 17:03 |
| cdent | I think it is probably worthwhile | 17:03 |
| cdent | but we might also just bikeshed all day long | 17:04 |
| cdent | :) | 17:04 |
| * elarson needed a new bikeshed... | 17:04 | |
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| sigmavirus24 | cdent: that'd be the fun of it, no? | 17:04 |
| sigmavirus24 | =P | 17:04 |
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| * elarson needs to finish shaving his yak though... | 17:04 | |
| sigmavirus24 | elarson: I insulate my bikesheds with yak hair myself | 17:04 |
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| cdent | bah, I've been doing it wrong all this time. I've been shaving the shed | 17:05 |
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| sigmavirus24 | and painting the yak? | 17:05 |
| sigmavirus24 | cdent: are you sure that's the wrong way? | 17:05 |
| sigmavirus24 | Some might argue you've been doing it right all along | 17:05 |
| cdent | some might argue pretty much anything | 17:05 |
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| sigmavirus24 | cdent: thatsthejoke.jpg | 17:06 |
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| cdent | I like to ruin jokes. It's my thing. | 17:06 |
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| sigmavirus24 | cdent: some might ruining jokes is the only right way to appreciate them | 17:07 |
| sigmavirus24 | *might say | 17:07 |
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| * cdent is feeling a bit postmodern | 17:08 | |
| sigmavirus24 | you're welcome? | 17:08 |
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| sigmavirus24 | cdent: how does that make you feel? | 17:08 |
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| cdent | ITMAKESMETHINKABOUTMYMOTHERS | 17:08 |
| sigmavirus24 | m/e would like etoews to weigh in before I ask infra how to make the channel | 17:09 |
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| elmiko | sigmavirus24: +1 | 17:09 |
| sigmavirus24 | I think we generally like the idea but I think this has been rejected before | 17:09 |
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| elmiko | oh, didn't realize that | 17:12 |
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| dtroyer | The idea being that -dev is pretty empty these days and cross-project stuff really should be here as much as anywhere… | 17:12 |
| elmiko | that makes a certain amount of sense | 17:12 |
| cdent | I'm happy with here. | 17:12 |
| elmiko | but irc channels are cheap, and there are several others which are mostly empty | 17:13 |
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| elmiko | (just to play devil's advocate) | 17:13 |
| cdent | If we expose our super ninja bikeshedding skills here, then other people will to get in on the game, which is a good thing. | 17:13 |
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| cdent | If we hide in a little channel we'll produce two headed babies. | 17:14 |
| elmiko | lol | 17:14 |
| elmiko | also a good point | 17:14 |
| elarson | I'm a +1 for two headed babies | 17:14 |
| dtroyer | heads on babies are a good thing | 17:14 |
| cdent | ha! | 17:14 |
| * dtroyer mis-parsed it the first time | 17:14 | |
| elmiko | yea, two headed baby isn't bad in my book. that's called HA ;) | 17:15 |
| * cdent is not a fan of hyphens, even when they help | 17:15 | |
| dtroyer | o-k | 17:15 |
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| kaufer | elmiko, sigmavirus24, miguelgrinberg: I'd like to follow up the the filtering chat that was starting in the API WG meeting, do any of your know if there is a project that supports the dynamic query language discussed? | 17:17 |
| sigmavirus24 | kaufer: in openstack? I suspect not | 17:17 |
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| sigmavirus24 | But, glance is about to approve a spec to add that via elasticsearch for a Catalog Index Search | 17:17 |
| elmiko | kaufer: according to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/find_filters , maybe telemetry? | 17:17 |
| sigmavirus24 | So glance would be allowing elasticsearch to power it | 17:18 |
| sigmavirus24 | elmiko: good point | 17:18 |
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| kaufer | humm, seems like this is something that many projects could benefit from | 17:18 |
| elmiko | i haven't looked at the telemetry project, but just noticed it on that etherpad | 17:19 |
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| kaufer | elmiko: Yeah, that one is interesting, I'll investigate it | 17:20 |
| ZZelle | Hi everyone! | 17:20 |
| ZZelle | Would it make sense to move https://github.com/openstack/heat/blob/master/heat/api/middleware/ssl.py in oslo.middleware? | 17:20 |
| sigmavirus24 | ZZelle: that would be a better question for #openstack-oslo | 17:21 |
| sigmavirus24 | ZZelle: also are a lot of other projects using it/pulling it from there? | 17:21 |
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| kaufer | sigmavirus24: You have a link to the glance spec for the elasticsearch support? | 17:21 |
| cdent | kaufer: ceilometer has some interesting complex query tools (booleans, regexp, comparison operators) | 17:22 |
| cdent | but it is implemented a bit weirdly | 17:22 |
| * cdent locates reference | 17:22 | |
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| ZZelle | sigmavirus24, thx | 17:22 |
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| cdent | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ceilometer/webapi/v2.html#api-queries | 17:23 |
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| elmiko | wow, that looks complicated | 17:23 |
| cdent | it allows (but does not require) the sin of a GET with a body containing the query structured in JSON | 17:23 |
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| cdent | I wouldn't recommend it is the basis for something generic | 17:24 |
| cdent | s/is/as/ | 17:24 |
| elmiko | that seems odd, i thought that GET with a body is not supported on all servers? | 17:24 |
| cdent | I think it is one of those things that evolved in strange circumstances | 17:24 |
| elmiko | ah | 17:24 |
| sigmavirus24 | kaufer: one second | 17:24 |
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| kaufer | cdent: Thx for the reference, seems powerful but complex | 17:24 |
| * cdent nods | 17:24 | |
| cdent | the use case is quite complex | 17:25 |
| sigmavirus24 | kaufer: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138051/ | 17:25 |
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| cdent | I've been pottering around this idea for a while: https://tank.peermore.com/tanks/cdent-rhat/GnocchiPersistentQueries | 17:25 |
| cdent | which would allow complex queries (in the ceilo style) to be persisted for frequent reuse | 17:25 |
| cdent | unfortunately the ceilo use case demands queries that annoyingly complex, given the way it currently presents data, that ought to improve with gnocchi | 17:26 |
| kaufer | sigmavirus24: thx | 17:26 |
| elarson | cdent: the /queries idea minds me of views in couchdb | 17:27 |
| elmiko | the whole POST to /queries seems interesting | 17:27 |
| cdent | elarson: yeah, it's borrowed from there and similar places | 17:27 |
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| elmiko | does that present any greater overhead than a GET with params? | 17:27 |
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| elarson | elmiko: it doesn't really change anything regarding caching from the HTTP standpoint, but from the server's standpoint, you could optimize accordingly | 17:28 |
| cdent | Depends on whether uri-templates were being used to make the reuse broad | 17:28 |
| elarson | it could also be a work around for URLs that are too long to be valid | 17:29 |
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| elarson | not that I remember a client or server that checks, but still ;) | 17:30 |
| elmiko | it certainly seems like a nice implementation to cover complex queries | 17:30 |
| elmiko | so, a question | 17:30 |
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| elmiko | would you have a single /queries endpoint, or something like /resource/queries /otherresource/queries ? | 17:30 |
| stevelle | elarson: I have had issues with proxies in the last 4 years that truncated long query strings | 17:31 |
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| elarson | stevelle: well there we go! problem solved :) | 17:31 |
| stevelle | rare but happens | 17:31 |
| stevelle | I find the POST to /queries to be an analog for /tasks conceptually | 17:32 |
| elmiko | a nice side effect of something like /queries is that it would be easy to migrate towards it | 17:32 |
| miguelgrinberg | kaufer: I think it would be reasonable to let projects implement their own query languages, a guideline could say that the query goes in a "q" argument, but it's not going to specify what the language is, IMHO | 17:33 |
| stevelle | the negative side effect is that raises the complexity bar | 17:33 |
| stevelle | server and client | 17:33 |
| elmiko | stevelle: true | 17:33 |
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| elarson | elmiko: my gut says a single /queries endpoint | 17:33 |
| elmiko | elarson: that seemed most appropriate, was just curious | 17:33 |
| stevelle | my gut says /queries implementations should run async | 17:34 |
| * elarson imagines it could end up looking like a pastebin for HTTP requests as well | 17:34 | |
| elmiko | so, would the queries then also return a unique id such that you could call GET /queries/<unique id> | 17:34 |
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| elmiko | i think stevelle answered my question hehe | 17:34 |
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| cdent | stevelle: is it common for existing queries to be especially slow? They certainly can be in a ceilometer, but the other services too? | 17:35 |
| kaufer | miguelgrinberg: yes, that makes sense, although it would be nice to have a common implementation to avoid duplication | 17:35 |
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| miguelgrinberg | kaufer: the thing is that a query language can be a very complex thing, projects are going to have different needs | 17:36 |
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| miguelgrinberg | they may even depend on 3rd party libs for the query | 17:36 |
| kaufer | yep, makes sense | 17:36 |
| stevelle | cdent: even if the answer only takes half a second in the 50th %ile case, the user experience is better and we had better scaling effects doing complex queries async | 17:36 |
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| stevelle | but I would always optimize for 95th %ile and worse | 17:37 |
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| stevelle | this is based on my experiences before I joined OpenStack | 17:37 |
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| elmiko | stevelle: is the idea that i POST to /queries, get an id back, then GET on /queries/id to see results? | 17:37 |
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| stevelle | elmiko: essentially yes | 17:38 |
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| elmiko | neat idea | 17:38 |
| stevelle | if the results are not ready yet, you can tell from the status code | 17:38 |
| elmiko | right | 17:38 |
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| miguelgrinberg | stevelle: why can't you issue a similar request to the resource in question, instead of ot /queries? | 17:39 |
| stevelle | I also supported a metadata item on the query to allow a message to be published to a broker so polling was not necessary | 17:39 |
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| stevelle | miguelgrinberg: this was a complex query case, simple queries could fit in a query string easily and didn't have complex boolean logic | 17:40 |
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| miguelgrinberg | typically a /queries makes sense when you are running a search across resources, but if you are search on a single resource I would go direct to the collection URL of that resource | 17:40 |
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| elmiko | it seems like a nice way to support complex queries as well though (even for a single resource) | 17:41 |
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| elmiko | miguelgrinberg, would it be appropriate to have an async style search that started as a GET to a specific resource endpoint which returns a link to a /queries/<id> endpoint for results? | 17:42 |
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| stevelle | miguelgrinberg: this was essentially a reporting engine in complexity, responses in csv were supported | 17:42 |
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| miguelgrinberg | elmiko: I honestly don't see the association with async and /queries. Any resource URL can be async, just return 202 and a URL to poll for status | 17:44 |
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| miguelgrinberg | now if you want to link in the locaiton header to point to a /queries I guess that's fine, it's an opaque URL | 17:45 |
| cdent | elmiko: the /queries thing came up originally as a place to persist queries that will be used again later | 17:45 |
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| stevelle | the query becomes a full resource of it's own then | 17:45 |
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| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: yea, don't get me wrong. i'm not conflating async with the use of queries, more just feeling out the idea. | 17:46 |
| miguelgrinberg | cdent: okay, then the representation of each saved query can be the URL that you have to issue to trigger the query, the /queries does not need to be the URL that runs the query | 17:46 |
| elmiko | cdent, stevelle, yea that makes sense to me | 17:46 |
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| cdent | when you post to /queries you back the query url, whatever that might be | 17:46 |
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| stevelle | then you GET on the query URL and (possibly) get a 202 | 17:47 |
| cdent | what's behind that url (pre-warmed cache, 202-ing async thingie, just the result) is independent | 17:47 |
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| miguelgrinberg | cdent: also note that you don't really need a /queries to save queries. That could be a property of the resource being queries. | 17:49 |
| cdent | sure | 17:49 |
| miguelgrinberg | for example, sending a query to /server?q=whatever gives this query an ID, and a URL such as /servers/queries/123 | 17:49 |
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| miguelgrinberg | then you can use this URL as a shortcut | 17:49 |
| miguelgrinberg | and a GET to /servers/queries returns the list of saved queries | 17:50 |
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| cdent | yeah, that all basically makes sense | 17:50 |
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| elmiko | thats kinda cool | 17:51 |
| cdent | sure, but is it useful? | 17:51 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: so, GET on /servers/queries/123 would rerun the query? | 17:51 |
| elmiko | lol | 17:51 |
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| miguelgrinberg | elmiko: I would make GET /servers/queries/123 return a redirect to the full query URL | 17:52 |
| elmiko | nice | 17:52 |
| elmiko | that makes sense | 17:52 |
| cdent | that's where we differ: | 17:53 |
| cdent | the queries that I'm considering are difficult to express in a URL | 17:53 |
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| cdent | the reason for persisting them in the first place is to store this complex mess that we don't have to pass over the wire every single time | 17:53 |
| cdent | and potentially use uri-templates to re-use the complex query with somewhat different inputs (notably timestamps) | 17:53 |
| miguelgrinberg | cdent: instead of using uri-templates, maybe for such a complex query you want to create a representation, and send all the params in a POST request? | 17:54 |
| cdent | that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid | 17:55 |
| miguelgrinberg | then the server can respond with the complete URL in the location header, and you don't have to use templates | 17:55 |
| cdent | the POST sends the complex representation of the query | 17:55 |
| cdent | the GET says "i want to use that query with these params" | 17:55 |
| elmiko | interesting | 17:55 |
| elmiko | sounds complicated | 17:56 |
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| elmiko | cdent: would you be able to retrieve the templated query, if needed? | 17:56 |
| cdent | for example a query might be: give me all the data about a resource with id x during time windox y to z | 17:56 |
| cdent | I get back some url that I can get with GET /mumble?id=something&x=timestamp&y=timestamp | 17:56 |
| miguelgrinberg | cdent: define "all the data" | 17:56 |
| miguelgrinberg | is single resourcde or multi-resource? | 17:57 |
| stevelle | cdent: for telemetry "resource with id x" means something different | 17:57 |
| stevelle | I spent too much time in telemetry API, so I understand already | 17:57 |
| cdent | wrapped in there is a bunch more stuff like when the targeted resource has a metric value above N and a different metric value exactly M | 17:57 |
| cdent | stevelle: yeah, I should use more specific language about resource | 17:57 |
| cdent | in this case resource means "a thing for which there exists measurements" | 17:58 |
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| miguelgrinberg | are the data items for this resource of different types? | 17:59 |
| cdent | the response expected back is a list of measurements | 17:59 |
| miguelgrinberg | how do you ask for all the measurements? do you have a /measurements ? | 17:59 |
| cdent | in ceilo? yes there is a /meters | 18:00 |
| miguelgrinberg | cdent: okay, perfect. So why can't you send your complex query to /meters? | 18:01 |
| cdent | That's how it is now | 18:01 |
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| cdent | you can either do query in parameters in the URI | 18:01 |
| cdent | or you can send structured JSON in the body | 18:02 |
| miguelgrinberg | and why is that a problem? | 18:02 |
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| cdent | a) use of body on a GET | 18:02 |
| cdent | b) it's inconvenient if you have tools that want to repeatedly do the same query, so a _convenience_ being able to persist queries would be useful | 18:02 |
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| cdent | c) one you've started peristing queries you then open up the door to further optiimizations: | 18:04 |
| miguelgrinberg | cdent: if you send a POST to /meters/queries, pass a template query that defines what you want to ask for, but not the values, then once you get a resource URL for the query, send a get with actual values and in response you get a redirect to the real query URL | 18:04 |
| cdent | c.1) parameterized persisted queries | 18:04 |
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| cdent | c.2) those saved queries as a dataset to be used for optimizing the (e.g. pre-warming) queries | 18:05 |
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| miguelgrinberg | cdent: you sold me on using bodies with GET :) | 18:05 |
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| cdent | you're "if you send a POST" basically describes what I've been saying all along | 18:06 |
| miguelgrinberg | basically I think you need to separate the query creation from the execution | 18:06 |
| cdent | with the use of the redict | 18:06 |
| stevelle | miguelgrinberg: sounds a bit like dealing with a bureaucracy, get a form stamped over at this window then wait in line with the form at that other window to have it processed. | 18:06 |
| miguelgrinberg | the POST request creates a query, does not run it | 18:06 |
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| miguelgrinberg | the only way to run a query is by talking to /meters with an ugly URL, but /meters/queries helps you construct those URLs | 18:07 |
| stevelle | fwiw I like the cleanness of GETting with query params on a posted query template | 18:07 |
| miguelgrinberg | stevelle: REST is bureaucratic, I won't deny that :) | 18:08 |
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| miguelgrinberg | cdent: the main thing is that you already have a way to issue these queries, don't change that. Just build something around it to make it easier to use. | 18:09 |
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| kaufer | miguelgrinberg, cdent: So there is still a need for complex query processing support across the projects, seems like the glance spec is trying to bridge that gap, right? | 18:10 |
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| cdent | miguelgrinberg: unfortunately the current query string-based lanugage for ceilo queries is _really_ hard to grok and while the translation from query string to data structure is pretty straightforward, the other way is not | 18:12 |
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| miguelgrinberg | cdent: yeah, looking at the docs now | 18:12 |
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| cdent | so the goal is to keep things "tidy" from the users perspective | 18:13 |
| cdent | It's unlikely that the ceilo v2 api won't change, but the gnocchi one could | 18:15 |
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| cdent | (which is sort of like v3 for ceilo) | 18:15 |
| cdent | anyway, thanks for the discussion, I gotta run off | 18:15 |
| miguelgrinberg | cdent: it's an interesting problem, look forward to more discussions on it | 18:15 |
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| stevelle | just to be clear on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147684/5 what is being counted? subresources? | 18:26 |
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| miguelgrinberg | stevelle: this is for giving you the resource count when you request a resource collection. | 18:33 |
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| mriedem_away | weird, some monasca repos are python and some are java? | 20:43 |
| mriedem_away | sandywalsh: ^? | 20:43 |
| sandywalsh | mriedem_away: yeah, it started as Java, but then they wanted to be incubated into openstack so they switched | 20:44 |
| sandywalsh | most of the java stuff is getting replaced | 20:44 |
| mriedem_away | and then incubation dropped out | 20:44 |
| sandywalsh | correct | 20:44 |
| mriedem_away | sandywalsh: and the nosql backends are still just vertica and influxdb? i've never heard of those. | 20:45 |
| sandywalsh | mriedem_away: yeah, well, monasca is heavily backed by HP, so vertica was a strong option. But nearly all their efforts now are towards influxdb, which is a time-series database. They're working closely with the influx devs to get what they need. | 20:46 |
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