Wednesday, 2016-11-16

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DragoI think it is 1.3 https://github.com/openstack/magnum/blob/master/magnum/api/rest_api_version_history.rst00:06
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chetnaHi Drago, I was going through the patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352358/ and I could see that 3 sec groups to be created. Would you advise keeping the 2 sec groups for master for k8s and CoreOS for now?00:29
Dragochetna: I haven't looked into it, but I'll bet that even having configurable rules can be done in 1 security group for the master00:32
DragoEven if that's not true, until there are actually configurable rules, I think it should be 1 security group for the master00:33
chetnaok, Thanks Drago :)00:33
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DragoWelcome00:38
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yatinrochaporto: Thanks for the info about your plan. Yes, please give it a try(<<if you have something to try for the etcd tls we can give it a go)03:11
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openstackgerrityatin proposed openstack/python-magnumclient: Use assert_called_*/assert_not_called to verify mock calls  https://review.openstack.org/39806903:47
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openstackgerrityatin proposed openstack/python-magnumclient: Use assert_called_*/assert_not_called to verify mock calls  https://review.openstack.org/39806903:53
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openstackgerritHieu LE proposed openstack/magnum: [docs]Update quickstart guide to use bay-config command  https://review.openstack.org/39815307:30
openstackgerritHieu LE proposed openstack/magnum: [docs]Update quickstart guide to use cluster-config command  https://review.openstack.org/39815307:31
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openstackgerritSpyros Trigazis proposed openstack/magnum: Drop id suffix in launch-an-instance guide  https://review.openstack.org/39818308:33
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/magnum: [docs]Update quickstart guide to use cluster-config command  https://review.openstack.org/39815308:52
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openstackgerritSpyros Trigazis proposed openstack/magnum: Drop id suffix in launch-an-instance guide  https://review.openstack.org/39818309:09
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openstackgerrityatin proposed openstack/python-magnumclient: Fix: typo fixed-network --> fixed-subnet  https://review.openstack.org/39824810:14
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openstackgerritzhangyanxian proposed openstack/magnum: Fix typo in cover.sh  https://review.openstack.org/39825810:28
openstackgerritzhangyanxian proposed openstack/magnum: Fix typo in cover.sh  https://review.openstack.org/39825810:30
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openstackgerrityatin proposed openstack/python-magnumclient: Fix: some typos in unit test  https://review.openstack.org/39824810:57
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openstackgerrityatin proposed openstack/python-magnumclient: Fix: some typos in unit test  https://review.openstack.org/39824811:36
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openstackgerrityatin proposed openstack/python-magnumclient: Fix: some typos in unit test  https://review.openstack.org/39824814:14
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openstackgerritDrago proposed openstack/magnum: Add Flatten Attributes Specification  https://review.openstack.org/39309414:43
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strigaziDrago, I have a question about workItem 1 in flatten attrs. We will leave the fields in the db empty in cluster and cluster_templates if it's cluster_attributes?14:48
strigaziDrago1 ^^14:48
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strigaziI14:50
strigaziI'll post in the review14:50
Drago1strigazi: No, I think you're supposed to write to both the old and the new fields14:50
strigaziDrago1. we want this for safety?14:51
Drago1strigazi: Yes, imagine having two conductors running different versions of magnum14:51
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strigazibut we'll keep the rpcs as it is I guess?14:52
strigazinova does this, AFAIK14:53
Drago1Let the old version be N. N+1 writes to old and new, reads from old. N+2 writes to old and new, reads from new. N+3 can write and read to only new.14:54
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Drago1There was a talk at the Austin summit that went over this. I'm not sure what we need to do to enable this14:55
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Drago1strigazi: And the idea is to not let any two conductors be more than 1 version apart14:58
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strigaziDrago1: I don't know if currently the a newton conductor can talk to a mitaka db15:05
strigaziI think it can't, but i'm not sure15:05
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strigaziMaybe it can't, mitaka has bays and newton has clusters15:06
strigaziwe need to version the way the conductor talk to the db too15:06
strigazisimilarly to the api versioning15:07
Drago1strigazi: Well, if magnum doesn't support rolling upgrades yet, we should look into it.15:08
strigaziwe must versions the db api for this15:10
strigazi*version15:10
strigaziI think we need to create a version starting from adding the keypair to cluster. To allow newton conductor to talk to an ocata db15:13
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Drago1strigazi: I'm currently talking to the Heat team about this15:15
Drago1strigazi: On #heat if you want to join15:15
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Drago1strigazi: So since we have ovo, do we need two migrations?15:26
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Drago1strigazi: I'm going to completely take out the migrations part of the flatten attributes patch15:35
Drago1strigazi: I thought it mattered. Seems like it doesn't15:35
strigazi+115:35
strigaziall chnages will happen at once, we can afford service downtime in magnum. The resources created by magnum won't have downtime anyway15:36
Drago1strigazi: Yeah15:36
Drago1strigazi: It would be *neat* though :)15:37
strigaziit's an overkill15:37
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openstackgerritDrago proposed openstack/magnum: Add Flatten Attributes Specification  https://review.openstack.org/39309415:37
strigaziIMO, when I asked our nova service manager, he told me if you have a lot of free time you can do it :)15:37
strigazi"IMO" goes to "it's an overkill" :)15:38
Drago1strigazi: Agreed, unless it's pretty easy15:39
Drago1Which it's not15:39
Drago1At least right now15:40
strigaziDrago1, maybe magnum becomes such a critical service and this feature will be a must :)15:41
strigazikidding, if our upgrades are bug free an upgrade in magnum is very fast15:41
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Drago1True15:44
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Drago1Dang yatin16:07
Drago1Catching all my mistakes16:07
Drago1:)16:07
openstackgerritDrago proposed openstack/magnum: Add Flatten Attributes Specification  https://review.openstack.org/39309416:10
Drago1Sorry strigazi16:10
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jvgrant_Drago1, strigazi: we decided that clusters and nodegroups will have a reference to the templates used to create them, correct?16:29
jvgrant_or just Clusters for Cluster-upgrades?16:30
Drago1jvgrant_: If the template versioning spec passes, yes16:34
jvgrant_Drago1: ok, updating the NodeGroup spec to reflect that16:36
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/magnum: Fix typo in cover.sh  https://review.openstack.org/39825816:46
openstackgerritMerged openstack/magnum: Drop id suffix in launch-an-instance guide  https://review.openstack.org/39818316:46
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/magnum: [install] Update rabbitmq configuration  https://review.openstack.org/39694116:47
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jvgrant_Drago1: pint17:01
jvgrant_Drago1: ping17:02
Drago1jvgrant_: quart17:02
jvgrant_lol17:02
jvgrant_Drago1: question on your TODO in nodegroup around multiple deletes17:02
jvgrant_Drago1: Do you think that is something we need to add now or something that could be added in the future if found necessary?17:03
Drago1jvgrant_: That would be something I think we should consider now because we could pick a command syntax that prevents us from adding it elegantly in the future17:04
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jvgrant_Drago1: what if we limit it to multiple deletes only when you specify the cluster? It seems deleting from the same cluster is when you will want to use multiple deletes in the same command17:05
Drago1jvgrant_: Still ambiguous17:06
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Drago1jvgrant_: Consider `magnum nodegroup-delete foo bar`17:07
jvgrant_Drago1: i lean towards not allowing multiple deletes with the nodegroup command. To me nodegroup commands feel targeted at one nodegroup17:07
Drago1What if there is a foo cluster and foo nodegroup17:07
jvgrant_for example should you allow multiple cluster deletes with the cluster-delete command?17:07
Drago1jvgrant_: Yes, and we do17:08
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Drago1already17:09
jvgrant_wasn't aware of that17:09
Drago1It's handy17:09
jvgrant_for cluster you just keep adding the cluster names to the delete?17:11
Drago1jvgrant_: Yes17:11
jvgrant_yeah our positional optional cluster name messes that up :(17:11
Drago1jvgrant_: It's even positional in cluster-delete right now!17:12
Drago1jvgrant_: We could make it not multiple so it's not ambiguous17:13
Drago1jvgrant_: Like you said17:13
Drago1It's not too much less convenient...17:13
jvgrant_if it is handy i'd like to keep it...17:13
jvgrant_trying to think of a clean way to represent that when each nodegroup could be represented by 1 or 2 parameters17:14
jvgrant_cluster only ever has 1 per cluster17:14
Drago1The minimum for it to be multiple is 2, so it would look like `magnum ng-delete cluster ng ng`17:15
Drago1while 1 can look like either `magnum ng-delete cluster ng` or `magnum ng-delete ng`17:16
Drago1So 1 or 2 args means single, while 3+ means multiple17:16
jvgrant_we could add the --multiple when used it is always just nodegroup without cluster17:16
Drago1IF we make cluster mandatory17:16
Drago1*IF we make cluster mandatory for multiple ngs17:16
swatsonDrago 2 args meaning single is a bit confusing17:16
jvgrant_that would work if we limit multiple delete to within the same cluster17:17
Drago1swatson: I'm thinking about this from a programmatic angle17:17
swatsonah17:17
Drago1A user might thing "oh this is obvious to me" but could be ambiguous to the parser17:17
Drago1*think17:18
Drago1jvgrant_: Or add a flag that could change the behavior if you want multiple in different clusters17:18
jvgrant_i think limiting it to the cluster covers the main use case and is a good start. We could then add the "--multiple" flag for separate nodegroups in the future if needed17:18
Drago1magnum nodegroup-delete c1ng117:19
Drago1magnum nodegroup-delete c1 c1ng117:19
Drago1magnum nodegroup-delete c1 c1ng1 c1ng217:19
Drago1magnum nodegroup-delete —multiple c1ng1 c2ng217:19
jvgrant_that would work17:19
Drago1magnum nodegroup-delete c1ng1 c1ng2 (INVALID)17:20
Drago1magnum nodegroup-delete c1ng1 c2ng1 (INVALID)17:20
Drago1magnum nodegroup-delete c1 c1ng1 c1ng2 c1ng317:20
swatsonI'm leaning towards the first one not even being valid17:20
Drago1magnum nodegroup-delete c1 c1ng1 c1ng2 c1ng3 c1ng417:21
swatsonI would prefer requiring a cluster name in every case17:21
Drago1swatson: I think some would prefer to not have to specify the ng name17:21
jvgrant_it really isn't needed though as a nodegroup can be found on its own17:21
swatsonDrago1: Could we add a flag to specify the cluster?17:22
Drago1swatson: The question that would convince me is if not requiring the cluster argument is overly dangerous17:22
Drago1swatson: Why?17:22
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Drago1What would the purpose be?17:22
swatsonI just like the consistency of each command looking and behaving similarly17:23
Drago1swatson: None of the other commands have a cluster flag17:23
swatsonI meant for ng-delete alone17:23
Drago1Okay, but how does that help consistency?17:23
jvgrant_we could just remove cluster all together. It really isn't needed other than to resolve naming conflicts which we already do using UUID17:24
Drago1jvgrant_: Interesting idea17:24
swatsonI'm looking at all the examples you just posted and only one doesn't have the cluster listed apart from the --multiple17:24
jvgrant_Drago1: that would match the behavior of all the other resources17:25
jvgrant_Drago1: and we have it optional in all anyway17:25
Drago1Okay, let's play with this idea17:26
Drago1magnum nodegroup-create mycluster mynodegroupname …17:26
Drago1Or magnum nodegroup-create —cluster mycluster mynodegroupname …?17:26
Drago1I find the second one ugly17:27
swatsonyeah I see what you're saying17:27
jvgrant_yeah, the create is why we added it...17:28
Drago1I do think that it would be reasonable for a user to expect commands of the form `magnum nodegroup-DoAThing foo bar baz` to have a similar structure17:28
Drago1so I don't know that dropping cluster quite makes sense17:28
jvgrant_ok, i'm back to what we suggested before with the --multiple flag17:29
jvgrant_i think that one makes the most sense if we want to keep it clean for create and other places17:29
Drago1magnum nodegroup-create mycluster myng (valid)17:29
Drago1magnum nodegroup-delete mycluster myng (should also be valid)17:29
jvgrant_agreed17:30
swatson+117:30
jvgrant_i don't think the multiple delete options is worth making the other commands make less sense17:31
Drago1jvgrant_, swatson: I'm trying to keep the job of the magnumclient in mind too. If the syntax for `magnum nodegroup-delete arg1 arg2` can be confined to arg1==cluster, arg2==nodegroup, then the client can blindly send a request to magnum and if that errors because it was really two nodegroups, tell the user to use —multiple instead17:31
Drago1jvgrant_: So do you think we should introduce the idea of multiple delete in the nodegroup spec at all?17:32
Drago1If so, I'm fine with that17:32
jvgrant_Drago1: i'm ok either way. I don't think it is really essential, but i'm ok with the --multiple flag schema we worked out above17:33
Drago1Followup question: are you still fine with cluster being optional in `magnum nodegroup-{everything besides create}`?17:33
jvgrant_yeah, i think that makes sense as it is not really needed. I'm ok with making it mandatory too if we really want17:34
Drago1Same to you swatson ^17:34
swatsonDrago1 Yeah I think it's fine17:34
Drago1jvgrant_: If we don't have to, I'm definitely on the non-mandatory side17:34
jvgrant_same17:34
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Drago1jvgrant_: Okay, so take out the "…" on line 100617:35
jvgrant_ok, i think for now i'm going to remove the multiple delete from the spec to keep it simple. We have resolved that there is a way to add it to the command latter with little issue so we are not blocking it with this command layout17:35
Drago1jvgrant_: +117:36
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Drago1jvgrant_: Can you fix the signature of the nodegroup-template-update command?17:38
Drago1It's missing the cluster arg17:38
Drago1That's the only one I see that it's missing17:39
jvgrant_Drago1: will do17:39
Drago1jvgrant_, swatson: I like the new command syntax. Seems pretty clean while also allowing for complex things to be specified17:40
jvgrant_Drago1: +117:40
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Drago1And consistent17:41
swatsonI'm into it17:42
jvgrant_Drago1: wait, why would nodegroup-template-update need the cluster arg? template is not connected to any cluster17:42
Drago1jvgrant_: *ClusterTemplate arg17:43
Drago1jvgrant_: It CAN be associated with a CT17:43
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jvgrant_ok, got it17:44
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openstackgerritJaycen Grant proposed openstack/magnum: Add NodeGroup specification  https://review.openstack.org/35273417:52
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openstackgerritJaycen Grant proposed openstack/magnum: Add NodeGroup specification  https://review.openstack.org/35273418:15
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openstackgerritRandall Burt proposed openstack/magnum: [WiP] Move cluster sync into the Heat driver  https://review.openstack.org/39796120:01
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randallburtwhoops, too quick on that one20:04
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Drago1Hey hongbin21:34
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hongbinDrago: sup21:35
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Dragohongbin: The "arbitrary" parameters are only to make the spec more concise. In the implementation, they will be flags for all of the real attributes21:35
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Dragohongbin: We did not want to list the ~27 possible flags you could pass21:36
hongbinDrago: ok. get that.21:36
hongbinDrago: maybe you guys want to clarify it in the spec (when i read it, it seems to suggest all flags can be free-form).21:38
Dragohongbin: Does that cover most of the comments on the NodeGroup spec?21:38
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hongbinDrago: i will go back to the nodegroup spec after a revision21:39
pc_mHi. I wanted to try to play with magnum using devstack and had some questions for folks. I'm using the getting started web page, but having some issues. Anyone able to field some general questions?21:39
hongbinDrago: i need to give it more thoughts about the design, which is not trivial21:41
Dragohongbin: I see there is another patchset now. On patch set 23, it looks like 4/6 of your comments were about the arbitrary flags21:41
pc_mQ1: Can I stack for magnum, in a VM on my Mac?21:41
Dragopc_m: Yes, magnum should not be special21:42
DragoSo it should work if you can get other services working.21:42
pc_mQ2: What OS should I use? I've been trying Ubuntu 16.04, 14.04, and RHEL 7, and hitting issues with each (using server in lab behind FW).21:42
Dragohongbin: I was asking if those 4 comments were about the same issue21:42
hongbinDrago: yes, i still have issues of the flags, but maybe it is not so important21:43
Dragopc_m: I have a devstack working on bare metal with 14.0421:43
pc_mDrago: OK. I'll have to retry on Mac with VM.21:43
hongbinDrago: i will give it more thoughts on the high level design21:43
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Dragohongbin: Cool. I was not sure what you meant by "inconsistent with OpenStack CLI style" until you clarified it was about the arbitrary flags (which I agree, would be bad)21:44
pc_mDrago: Hmm. With Ubuntu 16.04, I was able to stack, but when I created a cluster, it failed. Found that the VM creates are failing. Created a vanilla Cirros VM and it failed in Nova. :(21:44
openstackgerritRandall Burt proposed openstack/magnum: [WiP] Move cluster sync into the Heat driver  https://review.openstack.org/39796121:45
hongbinDrago: the style of indentation21:45
pc_mWith Ubuntu 14.04, it is failing to stack. Gets to the end, and says python-magnumclient did not install, but there is a egg file in /usr/local/lib....21:45
Dragopc_m: A common issue is that your cloud vms don't have internet connectivity21:45
Dragohongbin: The indentation is purely a visual aid21:46
pc_mWith RHEL, it failed in Octavia saying the qemu-kvm required but not installed. Found there is an open bug to fix that.21:46
Dragohongbin: It has been a bit controversial with other people than you too21:46
hongbinDrago: i know, but the indentation suggests that this flag only valid in this position21:46
pc_mDrago: Hmm. I'm behind a FW so that is an issue (been fighting with proxy setup).21:47
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Dragohongbin: Well that is probably true, because you must specify it after —nodegroup21:47
hongbinDrago: i never see an OpenStack CLI that has a flag (i.e. --image) that override the previous flag (e.g. --nodegroup )21:47
Dragohongbin: It is not an override, it establishes a new context for the flags that come after it21:48
hongbinDrago: if you have to do that, maybe set it in a single flag (i.e. --nodegroup XXX:image=XXX,flavor=XXX,...)21:48
Dragohongbin: We have considered a few different styles21:49
Dragohongbin: I find specifying everything with commas to be awkward21:49
Dragohongbin: It is worth more discussion though, definitely21:49
hongbinDrago: but that is what most of the OpenStack CLI is doing21:50
hongbinDrago: yes, just let others to comment on it.21:50
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Dragohongbin: Consider this though:21:50
jvgrant_hongbin: originally it was closer to what you are suggesting but feedback from team was they didn't like it. We have come a long way since then so let see if that has changed21:50
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Dragohongbin: You have `magnum nodegroup-create my_nodegroup —image some_image`21:51
Dragohongbin: With what we have right now, the syntax is exactly the same in cluster-create21:51
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pc_mDrago: Do you have any experience with using the setup, behind a FW (with proxy)? Any tips on how to get things going?  I've used DevStack on these systems before (with just Nova/Neutron/VPNaaS) and have been able to spin up VMs. Anything different, when using Magnum?21:51
Dragomagnum cluster-create my_cluster —nodegroup my_nodegroup —image some_image21:51
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hongbinjvgrant_: i see. if others like it, i don't have isue21:52
hongbinissue21:52
Dragopc_m: Magnum currently requires internet in the vms. Nova can create vms just fine, but the user data on those vms needs internet for the cluster to fully complete21:53
jvgrant_hongbin: let's see what feedback we get now after all the updates. I think it is still a good discussion to have and something we need to get right.21:54
pc_mDrago: Do you know if there is a way to do that, when behind a FW?21:55
hongbinjvgrant_: maybe you also want to ping the openstackclient team for feedback, eventually, the CLI will move to there.21:55
Dragopc_m: Or it at least needs to be able to resolve the URLs it needs. I think it depends on discovery.etcd.io and docker hub (for pulling the k8s images)21:55
Dragopc_m: Maybe gcr.io instead of docker hub21:56
jvgrant_hongbin: good idea, we should consider what the CLI would look like with their CLI standards as well21:57
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Dragojvgrant_, hongbin: They might even think what we've come up with makes sense :)21:57
Drago;)21:57
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Dragopc_m: You may get more useful help from tonanhngo or randallburt21:58
pc_mDrago: Thanks for the info. I did see this http://docs.openstack.org/developer/magnum/magnum-proxy.html21:59
pc_mnot sure if that will help.21:59
randallburtI'm probably not more helpful. If we're pulling images from public sources, you need to either poke holes for those things or proxy/use something local22:00
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Dragopc_m: That looks pretty promising! I learn something new every day22:01
jvgrant_pc_m: i know that swatson was working on getting a setup working behind proxy. I think he found a bug in it but he might have some answers22:01
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pc_mDrago: Have you ever seen an issue with Devstack, where at the end of the process it fails saying that python-magnumclient did not get installed?22:01
swatsonpc_m: jvgrant is referring to this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/magnum/+bug/162378822:01
openstackLaunchpad bug 1623788 in Magnum "Cluster creation fails on discovery when behind a proxy even after providing proxy information" [Medium,Triaged] - Assigned to rajiv (rajiv-kumar)22:01
pc_mjvgrant_: That would be great22:01
swatsonIf I recall correctly, the proxy information that was set for the client wasn't getting used22:02
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Dragopc_m: Sorry, no :/22:04
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pc_mDrago: I think that was the failure I was seeing, when trying from VM under MacOS.22:04
pc_m2016-11-15 19:28:32.583 | [ERROR] /home/pcm/devstack/inc/python:221 The following LIBS_FROM_GIT were not installed correct: python-magnumclient22:05
Dragopc_m: I have not seen that error, but in case someone else may have or will in the future, could you file a bug report? http://bugs.launchpad.net/magnum22:06
pc_mSure.22:06
DragoThanks!22:07
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pc_m#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/magnum/+bug/164240922:09
openstackLaunchpad bug 1642409 in Magnum "python-magnumclient not installing under devstack" [Undecided,New]22:09
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/magnum: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/39860822:09
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/magnum: Add insecure option in functional tests for SSL endpoints  https://review.openstack.org/39589322:58
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Dragohongbin: I've made a couple of comments on the upgrade spec23:05
hongbinreading it23:06
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tkarkeHi, I'm getting the following error while running cluster-config command "ERROR: 'EntryPoint' object has no attribute 'resolve'". Traceback: http://paste.openstack.org/show/589531/23:18
Dragotkarke: That's weird23:23
DragoNever seen that before23:23
Dragotkarke: Looks to be in your magnumclient though. What version are you running?23:23
tkarkeIm running 2.3.123:23
Dragotkarke: Straight from pip, or from source?23:24
Drago*pypi23:24
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tkarkeI installed it using zypper23:25
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DragoOh, OpenSUSE?23:26
tkarkethat's right23:26
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Dragotkarke: I have no experience with either, but if you can, I'd try installing it via pip23:26
DragoMaybe there's something wrong with the crypto package23:27
hongbinDrago: see my reply?23:28
Dragohongbin: Why does it matter what is in the cluster's ClusterTemplate?23:29
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DragoThe CT could have None for the coe_version. Doesn't matter as long as the Cluster has the attribute23:30
tkarkeI have Magnum running inside a container, within the container the command runs fine but running this from outside the container I get this error. The cryptography package version is the same in both the places. Other magnumclient commands work just fine23:30
DragoI don't see the same complexity problem23:30
Dragotkarke: Supposedly it's the same. I have seen, once, a package that got installed incorrectly and it looked like it had files from two different versions. It was crazy23:31
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DragoAnd it reported the correct version too23:31
tkarkeI see, I'll try reinstalling the client and try it again23:31
Dragohongbin: Upgrades go from A to B. A == whatever the cluster is, B == the attributes in the new ClusterTemplate. I don't see why the old ClusterTemplate has any part in this23:32
Dragotkarke: Yeah, until it keeps happening, I'd try the classic turn it off and back on again23:33
tkarkeThanks Drago!23:33
Dragotkarke: Only thank me if it's fixed :)23:34
tkarke:)23:35
Dragohongbin: Also, there's the attribute-locking spec that we have not discussed. In your scenario, a user probably would not be able to update coe_version because that would be something an operator would lock on that CT. But that's just something to think about and is tangent to this conversation23:36
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hongbinDrago: then, you don't need to do upgrade with cluster template23:43
hongbinDrago: you can do upgrade by directly modifying the cluster23:43
hongbinDrago: then, the reference still doesn't make sense23:44
Dragohongbin: Yes, that is true, but the purpose of specifying a new cluster template is to update the association for operators to be able to track23:44
Dragohongbin: Operators like CERN want to be able to see which clusters are on which ClusterTemplate version, and upgrade them to a new one23:45
Dragohongbin: Everything you said is true, but this is about tracking23:45
hongbinDrago: maybe we could track it in a different way without duplicating the attribute23:45
Dragohongbin: That sounds like a tough thing to do, if not impossible23:47
Dragohongbin: The attributes will be on the new clustertemplate because users need to be able to create brand-new clusters from the new version23:47
hongbinDrago: ok, that makes sense23:48
hongbinDrago: however, let me think how to model it better23:49
Dragohongbin: Okay23:49
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