Tuesday, 2014-04-01

« Monday, 2014-03-31 Index Wednesday, 2014-04-02 »
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openstackgerritStan Lagun proposed a change to stackforge/murano-api: Use native oslo.messaging notification dispatcher  https://review.openstack.org/8426506:31
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igormarnatHowdy07:01
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ogelbukhigormarnat: hi07:27
ogelbukhhow're you doing?07:27
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igormarnatIt depends on aspect. Speaking of weather, it's not Hawaii07:55
igormarnatThough speaking of work, it's a lot of fun:)07:55
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openstackgerritA change was merged to stackforge/murano-api: Use native oslo.messaging notification dispatcher  https://review.openstack.org/8426509:24
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openstackgerritTimur Sufiev proposed a change to stackforge/murano-dashboard: Implement creating new App from other App Creation dialog.  https://review.openstack.org/8303910:06
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igormarnatlol:)11:17
dteselkinmm ? :)11:18
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igormarnatfreenode+ sounds good11:47
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openstackgerritEkaterina Fedorova proposed a change to stackforge/murano-api: Implement upload call to the repository API  https://review.openstack.org/8409912:41
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ruhekatyafervent: ping12:54
katyaferventHi)12:54
katyaferventwhat's up12:54
ruhehi :)12:54
ruhei broke my brains in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84099/3/muranoapi/api/v1/catalog.py :)12:54
katyafervent*^_^*12:55
ruhemaybe there is an indentation problem? shouldn't try/catch block where you create package_to_upload belong to the with() block above?12:56
katyaferventI updated it btw. Please leave comments how make it better)12:56
ruheit's still the same12:57
ruheok, i'll leave my comments, but...12:57
ruhei just wanted to say that touching tempf outside of the block where it was created is not the right way to go12:58
katyaferventok. but I handing it's deletion12:59
katyafervent* I'm12:59
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openstackgerritStan Lagun proposed a change to stackforge/murano-api: Adoption of pre-0.5 environment API to MuranoPL format  https://review.openstack.org/8304713:38
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openstackgerritSergey Murashov proposed a change to stackforge/murano-api: Refactor murano functional tests  https://review.openstack.org/8443513:49
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openstackgerritEkaterina Fedorova proposed a change to stackforge/murano-api: Implement upload call to the repository API  https://review.openstack.org/8409914:01
openstackgerritEkaterina Fedorova proposed a change to stackforge/murano-api: Implement upload call to the repository API  https://review.openstack.org/8409914:03
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ruhei'd be happy to get some reviews in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83601/14:31
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openstackgerritA change was merged to stackforge/murano-api: Adoption of pre-0.5 environment API to MuranoPL format  https://review.openstack.org/8304715:33
openstackgerritA change was merged to stackforge/murano-dashboard: Implement creating new App from other App Creation dialog.  https://review.openstack.org/8303915:39
openstackgerritTimur Sufiev proposed a change to stackforge/murano-dashboard: Horizontally align tiles with different App description length.  https://review.openstack.org/8448115:52
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gokrokveAgent installation is good but we need to understand how to deliver this agent code to VM.18:01
sergmelikyangokrokve, regarding installation - most simple way is pip and python eggs18:02
sergmelikyanbut also we may have specs for deb/rpm as we have for other murano components18:02
gokrokveFor linux. You will need to install python on windows :-)18:02
sergmelikyangokrokve, it does not matter how many software are you installing with cloud-init, we can install python and then install our agent18:03
* sergmelikyan talking about windows18:03
ruhei think that cloud-installable agent should be just an option18:04
sergmelikyanAnd I think it will be really nice, opposing heavy windows bootstrapping described in our manual18:04
gokrokveok. I suppose Murano will still support both prebacked image and bootstrap via cloud-init18:04
gokrokveok18:04
sergmelikyanruhe, sure, but i think it will be most popular use-case18:04
ruheand pre-built images should be the main way to speak with VMs18:04
sergmelikyanruhe ?18:05
ruhesergmelikyan: from my expirience in Sahara/Savanna, most of users prefer to have as much software to be installed as possible18:05
ruhe* pre-installed18:05
ruhethey want the deployment process to be as fast as possible18:06
ruheand they don't see any problem in having pre-built custom images18:06
sjmc7as a relative newcomer to murano, how much crossover is there between the murano agent and heat's software config functionality?18:07
sergmelikyanruhe, it is true when you are talking about savanna that deploys Hadoop. But in Murano same image may be used for deployment of thouthands of applications. You could not have so many images pre-built, or one with all pre-requisites18:07
sergmelikyansjmc7, they solve one problem but with slightly different approach. Application developer can choose what way to use, since it is possible to do provisioning using software config or murano-agent at the same time/18:09
sjmc7ok. for our use cases, custom images is a problem, so we'd either be looking at using heat or installing the agent via cloudinit. will the murano agent still require its own rabbitmq?18:11
sergmelikyanOne important thing about murano-agent vs software-config is that software config is iterative, while software-config defines 'state of the world'18:12
sergmelikyansjmc7, currently we use own rabbit mq for security reasons (we don't want to expose rabbitmq used by OpenStack to VM's, to protect our Cloud from abuse)18:13
sjmc7in many cases it feels like cloudinit on its own would be sufficient18:13
sjmc7yes sergmelikyan - the security aspect makes good sense, but it's another moving part18:14
sergmelikyansjmc7, there is no problem to share one instance of rabbit mq and leave security and abuse issues on rabbitmq features (vhosts, certificates) and networking level18:16
sergmelikyanAt this moment we don't have clean solution/vision about how to not use rabbit mq in case of murano-agent involved. It may change in next release18:17
sjmc7it's more that we'd rather not have the direct communication with rabbitmq18:17
sjmc7ok, got it18:17
ruhesjmc7: will you install/provision local package mirror (or maybe just web server) to host agent packages?18:17
sjmc7ruhe - i believe so, yes18:18
ruheok, i'll make a note about it18:18
sjmc7at least for debian packages, not sure about a pypi mirror18:18
ruhedeb/rpm is a better option to distribute software compared to pypi18:19
sergmelikyansjmc7, we evaluating Marconi, but Marconi does not satisfy our requirements yet. Changing murano <-> agent transport is not so hard, so we can move to another transpport once we found it18:19
sjmc7got it. i'm just trying to get a feel for how complicated deployment's likely to be18:19
sjmc7extra maintenance == extra work for me18:19
sjmc7heat's all REST, right?18:20
sergmelikyansjmc7, what do you mean by 'all REST'?18:20
sjmc7over http?18:20
sjmc7i may be mistaken18:20
ruheHeat just sends pre-defined list of commands to VM via cloud-init18:21
ruhebut in some cases it's not enough where software requires interactive configuration18:21
sjmc7ah, ok, my bad. i was under the impression it communicated more than that18:21
sjmc7how often is it necessary for murano to communicate with VMs after creation?18:22
sjmc7and please forgive my stupid questions18:22
ruhesjmc7: we will not forgive your questions. we encourage you to do so :)18:22
sergmelikyansjmc7, there is no nessesary communication between murano and VM, all communication commands explicitly issues in MuranoPL by Application Writer18:23
sergmelikyan*issued18:23
sergmelikyanSo there is may be an application that does not require any communication beyond cloud-init done by Heat (for example)18:23
gokrokvesergmelikyan: That is not the real case. Murano engine has to communicate with VM.18:24
sergmelikyangokrokve &18:24
sergmelikyangokrokve, ?18:24
gokrokveThe typical scenario is when you are installing a complex application like MS SQL cluster.18:24
ruheguys, i have to leave to catch the last bus home, ttl18:24
sjmc7thanks gokrokve, that was what i was getting at - what cases are there where the agent receives messages after creation that couldn't have been in cloudinit18:24
sjmc7thanks ruhe18:25
gokrokveMurano engine sends first commands to cluster nodes then waits for reply from nodes and continue to send new commands in proper sequence.18:25
sergmelikyangokrokve, of we are talking about possibility - definitely Murano does not require communication with VM, but in real case - almost all our existing application (on 0.4) require more then one calls to VM (changing password, installing software1, then soft2 and so on)18:26
gokrokveLike Active directory setup. You have to install Primary domain controller then join the domain on secondary controller and setup a secondary controller AD.18:26
gokrokveYes. For limited set of simple app you don't need to send different commands multiple time.18:27
sergmelikyanOne of the major gain with murano and murano-agent that you can done cross-instance orchestration18:27
sergmelikyanFor example do something on VM2 depending on result from VM118:27
gokrokvesergmelikyan: Yes. This is the valuable part.18:27
sjmc7ok, that makes sense. it seems though that you've then got a communication channel via rabbitmq that won't be used beyond the initial setup (which as you've said may be timing dependent and complex)18:27
sjmc7heat has the concept of signalling which seems related18:28
gokrokvesjmc7: No. Murano will use this channel any time it need to execute something on VM.18:28
stanlagunsjmc7: it may be used after initial setup18:28
sergmelikyansjmc7, yes, but with signaling you don't have 'output'18:28
sjmc7ok gokrokve - so where you later add other services for instance that require work on existing ones?18:29
gokrokveMurano application can have actions like "backup", "scaleUP". User can call this action on depoyed app and Murano will use existing communication channel to invoke some comand on VM.18:30
gokrokvesjmc7: Technically you can add some new components on deployed VM instance, yes.18:30
gokrokveThe goal is to be able to communicate with VM at any time while it is up and running.18:31
sergmelikyanor reconfigure existing, depending on adding new service to environment18:31
gokrokveYes.18:32
sjmc7ok, i see, thanks18:32
sergmelikyanRegarding how easy is to deploy murano - murano is OpenStack service and does not require nothing more than other OpenStack service, for example glance. Second RabbitMQ is more like improvement than requirement (i could no asses how it is valuable from security point of view)18:34
sjmc7for us we'd have to deploy the second rabbitMQ, we wouldn't be allowed direct access to the core one18:35
sjmc7but i get your point18:36
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sergmelikyansjmc7, it is reasonable, Fuel does it too. And I understand that less moving parts - easy deployment and support18:36
sjmc7i'm not trying to argue, i just know someone's gonna ask me all this stuff :)18:37
sergmelikyan:)18:37
sergmelikyanAnd we trying to answer this question from all perspective that we know :)18:37
sergmelikyan*questions18:37
sergmelikyan*perspectives18:38
stanlagun:)18:41
stanlagunthis may be useful: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Murano/UnifiedAgent18:42
sergmelikyanstanlagun, sjmc7 btw great document about how our agent work, and why we done it in this way18:46
* sergmelikyan totally forgot about that page 18:47
stanlagunAnyway agent is an optional part of Murano. One may want to use Marconi-based agent or HOT software components or cloud init and this is perfectly fine with Murano18:48
sjmc7yep, that page is a good description, thanks18:49
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openstackgerritStan Lagun proposed a change to stackforge/murano-api: statistics renamed to request_statistics  https://review.openstack.org/8454020:16
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