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| pedroalvarez | yay, instance upgraded :) | 09:04 |
|---|---|---|
| Zara | yay! | 09:04 |
| SotK | \o/ | 09:45 |
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| Zara | that storyboard is such a pretty colour... | 10:01 |
| Zara | I think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/312666/ is ready for a rebase now | 10:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Adam Coldrick proposed openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Complex priorities UI in stories https://review.openstack.org/312666 | 10:39 |
| Zara | ooh | 10:41 |
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| Zara | I'll be away shortly for lunch (for a change!) will be back in a bit. | 11:55 |
| Zara | pedroalvarez: btw, how's the ansible role? any docs we can shamelessly link to? :) | 11:59 |
| * Zara actually goes off for lunch | 11:59 | |
| pedroalvarez | anisble role is uptodate | 12:10 |
| pedroalvarez | but docs | 12:10 |
| pedroalvarez | docs.. | 12:10 |
| pedroalvarez | i'm sure I can find some time soon to update them :) | 12:11 |
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| Zara | \o/ I think we have another person who'll try spinning up an instance soonish | 13:20 |
| Zara | so that's why I wondered, thank you! | 13:20 |
| pedroalvarez | I see | 13:21 |
| pedroalvarez | This would be good if what is trying to do is to set up a production environment | 13:22 |
| pedroalvarez | for development might not be the best choice | 13:22 |
| Zara | true, I was thinking of it as the best option for a quick setup, but I guess that's not great when it's also designed for production | 13:23 |
| Zara | going to start on the python client again now | 13:26 |
| Zara | somehow it's already half 2 ;_; | 13:26 |
| Zara | hm, storyboard really doesn't like underscores in project names | 13:38 |
| Zara | or long ones. it's a shame so many puppety things fall into both categories! | 13:38 |
| Zara | hm, I think storyboard automatically creates a branch for each project. maybe this is known already. | 14:05 |
| SotK | sounds plausible | 14:05 |
| Zara | yeah, my instance has 21 branches and I've never created them manually | 14:06 |
| persia | While branch support in the UI was never implemented, I believe every task is actually against a branch, rather than a project. | 14:10 |
| Zara | they're against both, I think. | 14:10 |
| * SotK can confirm that is the case | 14:12 | |
| persia | There may be an optimisation in the DB to be able to get the project from the task without going through the branch, but that's an implementation detail. | 14:12 |
| persia | Note that in practice, this doesn't matter much, because of the lack of validation, testing, and UI exposure of the branch model :) | 14:13 |
| Zara | I either can't remember the syntax for POSTing with the client, or I can't get it to work for branches, or both. all expected things are present for a GET, anyway | 14:31 |
| Zara | and PUTs work fine | 14:34 |
| persia | The branch API might not be very rich yet. | 14:34 |
| persia | And I think POST is change, and I have trouble imagining how one changes a branch without it being confusing. | 14:34 |
| Zara | I figure if it can make them automatically, it's probably possible for me to do it, I just don't have the right syntax (post is create, put is change) | 14:35 |
| persia | Ah, indeed. I cannot imagine an API that permits change without create. | 14:36 |
| Zara | yeah, I think I'm just missing some runes | 14:36 |
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| Zara | it did try to post, but gave 400s each time with varying errors. well, I'll see what happens with milestones, and if it's weird there, too, I'll paste some things | 14:40 |
| Zara | so this is the same syntax as PUTs, but it's much disliked | 14:59 |
| Zara | storyboard.milestones.create(name='cat') | 14:59 |
| Zara | when I print the results of that, I get... | 15:00 |
| Zara | http://paste.openstack.org/show/537445/ | 15:00 |
| Zara | I may just have a cooked brain | 15:00 |
| Zara | I also tried putting an object in there but got: | 15:04 |
| Zara | Traceback (most recent call last): | 15:04 |
| Zara | File "testscript.py", line 14, in <module> | 15:04 |
| Zara | milestones = storyboard.milestones.create({'name':'cat'}) | 15:04 |
| Zara | TypeError: create() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given) | 15:04 |
| Zara | which isn't very surprising, since that looks weird even to me. :P | 15:04 |
| persia | Maybe quote the JSON string in the python, so it becomes a string object? | 15:07 |
| persia | "{'name':'cat'}" | 15:07 |
| * Zara gives it a go | 15:07 | |
| Zara | same error | 15:08 |
| Zara | oh well, I can carry on with GETs for other things and just try a new thing every so often | 15:08 |
| Zara | I think I did POSTs for stories last time around | 15:09 |
| Zara | so at some point I knew how | 15:09 |
| Zara | unfortunately I can't find any examples lying around in my files | 15:09 |
| persia | Try create(json="...") | 15:12 |
| * persia is looking at BaseManager._put() | 15:12 | |
| persia | Oh, nevermind. That doesn't work. | 15:14 |
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| Zara | hm, my access token expired partway through. it better not be that | 15:21 |
| Zara | okay, doesn't look like it. the error didn't seem to suggest that, either, so I guess that's just as well | 15:23 |
| anteaya | regarding markus_z's question about having a meeting to discuss blockers, I want to talk to individuals first please | 15:31 |
| anteaya | when I am ready to have a meeting, I will call one | 15:31 |
| * SotK wonders how any POSTs work | 15:32 | |
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| anteaya | markus_z: hello | 15:37 |
| markus_z | hey ho | 15:37 |
| anteaya | thanks for having some time | 15:37 |
| anteaya | so I'm going over your list, I haven't read all the back scroll of your prior discussion | 15:37 |
| anteaya | I'd like to start with the question, if were were to migrate to storyboard tomorrow could you get work done? | 15:38 |
| markus_z | the short answer is "no" | 15:38 |
| anteaya | okay thank you | 15:38 |
| anteaya | what is the top thing that is missing or not availalbe for you to be able to work? | 15:39 |
| markus_z | E011 worries me the most | 15:40 |
| markus_z | After that, E004 | 15:40 |
| anteaya | let's discuss E011 first | 15:40 |
| markus_z | ok | 15:40 |
| anteaya | if we move to storyboard-dev | 15:41 |
| anteaya | can you tell me how you set up your dashboard so you and I can see the same event? | 15:41 |
| markus_z | I use this script to query LP: https://github.com/markuszoeller/openstack/blob/master/scripts/launchpad/bugs_dashboard.py | 15:42 |
| markus_z | I need to rewrite it for SB | 15:43 |
| anteaya | yes, I believe that | 15:43 |
| anteaya | but let's identify what functionality launchpad is providing for you in your script | 15:44 |
| markus_z | note: that's only one of the many LP scripts which are around. https://github.com/openstack-infra/release-tools has a lot more. | 15:44 |
| anteaya | I understand | 15:44 |
| anteaya | is bugs_dashboard_template.html an endpoing that launchpad provides? | 15:45 |
| anteaya | endpoint | 15:45 |
| markus_z | no, it's a jinja template I created to display the LP queries for http://45.55.105.55:8082/bugs-dashboard.html | 15:45 |
| anteaya | oh | 15:45 |
| anteaya | okay | 15:45 |
| anteaya | so this http://45.55.105.55:8082/bugs-dashboard.html is your jinja template | 15:46 |
| markus_z | the rendered result, to be precise | 15:46 |
| anteaya | thank you, and yes, let's be precise | 15:46 |
| markus_z | the template is here: https://github.com/markuszoeller/openstack/blob/master/scripts/launchpad/bugs_dashboard_template.html | 15:46 |
| anteaya | okay so can you help me understand the format of the launchpad query? | 15:47 |
| markus_z | The most simple one is this: https://github.com/markuszoeller/openstack/blob/master/scripts/launchpad/bugs_dashboard.py#L267-L268 | 15:48 |
| markus_z | It utilizes "launchpadlib" (https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib) to query the LP database. | 15:49 |
| anteaya | I have had no knowledge of launchpadlib prior to this moment | 15:49 |
| fungi | i think it's a good takeaway to see the sorts of interactions these tools have with launchpad so we know what kinds of api calls are useful to consumers, though it's also worth noting that no matter what task tracker we switch to it will never be a bug-compatible reimplementation of the launchpad api | 15:49 |
| markus_z | from what I saw of your API docs, SB can do that, but I need time to rewrite it. | 15:50 |
| anteaya | okay yes, I agree | 15:50 |
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| fungi | anteaya: we use launchpadlib in infra to update bugs and blueprints (things the its-storyboard plugin for gerrit will be taking over) | 15:50 |
| anteaya | fungi: ah thank you | 15:50 |
| anteaya | so yes, from my understanding of lp_project.searchTasks(status=["In Progress"], | 15:50 |
| anteaya | omit_duplicates=True) | 15:50 |
| dmsimard | oh, sorry if this has already been proposed somewhere -- but know how the openstack bot will link the bug and description when we link a launchpad bug ? It should do that for storyboard too :) | 15:50 |
| anteaya | storyboard can search tasks based on task status | 15:50 |
| fungi | dmsimard: yes, there's a gerrit plugin to do that now | 15:51 |
| anteaya | I don't know if we offer an omit_duplicates flag | 15:51 |
| markus_z | I can filter that on the client side if necessary | 15:51 |
| anteaya | markus_z: okay thank you | 15:51 |
| dmsimard | fungi: I don't think we're talking about the same thing, I don't mean the "Closes-Bug: #" links from gerrit | 15:51 |
| anteaya | markus_z: or we can get that into storyboard, we can accept patches, if that is easier | 15:51 |
| anteaya | dmsimard: can I finish with markus_z first please? | 15:52 |
| dmsimard | anteaya: yeah sure | 15:52 |
| fungi | dmsimard: oh, you're talking about the code we have in meetbot. yes, adding a lookup for that should be pretty trivial | 15:52 |
| anteaya | dmsimard: I would really like to ensure I understand his needs so I can help address them | 15:52 |
| anteaya | dmsimard: thanks | 15:52 |
| dmsimard | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1592564 | 15:52 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1592564 in neutron "gate-neutron-lbaasv2-dsvm-minimal is failing" [Critical,Fix committed] - Assigned to Elena Ezhova (eezhova) | 15:52 |
| dmsimard | fungi: ^ like this | 15:52 |
| markus_z | anteaya: It's not critical IMO and could be added in a later step | 15:52 |
| anteaya | markus_z: sorry what part is not critical? | 15:52 |
| markus_z | that the SB API provides a filter for duplicates | 15:53 |
| anteaya | markus_z: ah thank you | 15:54 |
| anteaya | markus_z: okay so what is critical right now? | 15:54 |
| anteaya | let's see if we can get back to that | 15:54 |
| fungi | i would say, from a broader perspective, storyboard does not yet have the concept of marking one story or task as a duplicate of another | 15:55 |
| anteaya | fungi: okay thanks | 15:55 |
| fungi | at least as far as i'm aware | 15:55 |
| anteaya | markus_z: we were talking about E011 | 15:55 |
| SotK | indeed it does not | 15:55 |
| * SotK has done it with tags a couple of times | 15:56 | |
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| anteaya | markus_z: and I see what you are talking about, in my dashboard event stream Zara added this comment: https://storyboard-dev.openstack.org/#!/story/23#comment-127 | 15:56 |
| anteaya | yes clicking on the link in the event stream takes me to the story, not to the comment | 15:56 |
| anteaya | markus_z: and you would like the event stream link to take me to the event, not to the story on which the event occured | 15:57 |
| anteaya | I think this is possible for comments as comments have permalinks now | 15:57 |
| markus_z | anteaya: sorry, I got lost. Do we still talk about E011? | 15:57 |
| anteaya | SotK: is it possible to add the permalink for comments to the event stream | 15:57 |
| anteaya | markus_z: yes, sorry I am still talking about E011 | 15:57 |
| anteaya | and I apologize for the confusion | 15:58 |
| markus_z | anteaya: I don't see the connection between E011 and the story event stream. | 15:58 |
| anteaya | oh sorry | 15:58 |
| anteaya | then I don't yet understand the point of E011 | 15:58 |
| anteaya | can you try to tell me again | 15:58 |
| Zara | (hm, aiui it's fine to have multiple conversations simulatenously on irc, and I was under the impression that dmsimard was talking to me and sotk about a completely separate thing? please correct me if my understanding of irc is mistaken, since we often do that in this channel...) | 15:59 |
| anteaya | I'm really trying to understand markus_z | 15:59 |
| anteaya | if it would be easier for me to move to the -sprint channel to chat with him I can try that | 16:00 |
| dmsimard | I wasn't talking to anyone in particular, I was asking if anyone had thought of the feature I was talking about in general :/ | 16:00 |
| anteaya | but so far I don't yet know what he wants | 16:00 |
| anteaya | and he says that right now he can't use storyboard | 16:00 |
| anteaya | which is a concern for me | 16:00 |
| anteaya | so I would like to ensure I can understand him | 16:00 |
| SotK | dmsimard: to answer your question, I think that it was planned to be done originally, and I imagine will be done as part of the migration | 16:01 |
| markus_z | anteaya: I'd like to rewrite my launchpad scripts *before* we switch to SB and query the most current "shadows/copies" from the LP bug reports. | 16:01 |
| anteaya | markus_z: oh yes, that is fine, I totally understand that | 16:01 |
| anteaya | markus_z: and yes we still have to go through the tc once we have identified the storyboard gaps | 16:01 |
| markus_z | anteaya: Part of my concern is, that I don't know how the transition will look like. | 16:01 |
| SotK | anteaya: yes it is possible to add the permalink for comments to the event stream, but that won't work for events that aren't comments | 16:01 |
| anteaya | markus_z: which is my role here | 16:02 |
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| anteaya | markus_z: ah okay that is a good question | 16:02 |
| markus_z | anteaya: It's not a technical issue with SB, more a process "issue". | 16:02 |
| anteaya | SotK: thanks, I am no longer sure if that is a concern of markus_z's, it seems like it isn't and I made a mistake | 16:02 |
| anteaya | markus_z: that is very legitimate | 16:03 |
| anteaya | markus_z: this is the process we have agreed to so far: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/task-tracker.html | 16:03 |
| markus_z | anteaya: I stated that in Q003 below. | 16:03 |
| anteaya | oh okay great | 16:04 |
| anteaya | okay there is an agenda item on it | 16:05 |
| anteaya | Zara: what other questions came up if I might ask? | 16:05 |
| markus_z | anteaya: I don't find a section which explains how the bug reports get transferred between LP and SB. | 16:06 |
| anteaya | markus_z: currently I am working on steps 1 and 2 on phase 1 | 16:06 |
| anteaya | markus_z: right, are you available to attend the infra meeting today? | 16:06 |
| markus_z | what time is that? | 16:07 |
| anteaya | 19:00 utc today | 16:07 |
| anteaya | in -meeting | 16:07 |
| Zara | question 1) was re: cross project meeting, since I was planning to ask fungi at what point he thought it would be sensible to do that step (though you've since said you want to organise that, so maybe we don't need to discuss it any more :)) and the other was the q003 | 16:07 |
| anteaya | great thank you | 16:07 |
| anteaya | yeah, I am not ready for a meeting on this | 16:07 |
| markus_z | anteaya: yeah, I think I can attend from home | 16:07 |
| anteaya | I am still talking to individuals | 16:07 |
| anteaya | markus_z: wonderful thank you | 16:07 |
| anteaya | so yes, we successfuly migrated the infra bugs from launchpad to storyboard when we migrated infra over a year ago | 16:08 |
| anteaya | but it would be good to go over that process again and to ensure that folks involved are clear on the steps | 16:08 |
| anteaya | since I believe some that were involved are no longer available to help | 16:09 |
| markus_z | was there a period of time where bugs existed in both, LP and SB? | 16:09 |
| anteaya | so thank you | 16:09 |
| anteaya | no | 16:09 |
| anteaya | one or the other, not both at the same time | 16:09 |
| anteaya | if they existed on both then updates for one would get lost | 16:09 |
| fungi | more accurately, the bugs continue to "exist" in lp after the migration, but bug tracking gets disabled in lp so that no new bugs can be opened | 16:10 |
| markus_z | Maybe we can copy bug reports once, re-write the LP scripts to work with SB within a specific timeframe, clean the SB bug report DB and make the real transition. | 16:10 |
| anteaya | fungi: ah, thank you for accuracy | 16:11 |
| fungi | it's a little fiddly on the lp side though, as people can technically still update existing bugs there and we've not (afaik) found a way to stop that | 16:11 |
| markus_z | fungi: well, I know how to write a LP script which checks updates and leaves a comment to stop doing that :) | 16:12 |
| fungi | the import script is incremental though, so we can rerun it to update the import as long as nobody edits those stories in storyboard between import runs | 16:12 |
| Zara | (so re: using #sprint, yeah, I think I'd recommend it (or something similar) for times when we want to have a moderated discussion on one specific subject, since otherwise people coming to this channel for support or to ask more general questions don't have a place to be heard.) | 16:12 |
| anteaya | Zara: I can do that | 16:13 |
| anteaya | I do need to have uninterrupted conversations at times like this | 16:13 |
| markus_z | fungi: Some (a lot?) scripts make changes to bug reports / user stories. | 16:13 |
| markus_z | FWIW, I like SB more than LP already, but it's very hard to find people who do bug triage. If SB makes that part harder, I'm not in favor of using it. | 16:15 |
| anteaya | markus_z: well let's identify missing features then | 16:15 |
| fungi | markus_z: right, i just meant as far as having a trial import teams can check their tooliong against, it's feasible as long as we don't officially start telling the public to start using storyboard for those projects until a firm coordinated cut-over date | 16:15 |
| anteaya | markus_z: as my role is to identify missing features | 16:15 |
| markus_z | fungi: yes, exactly | 16:16 |
| markus_z | anteaya: Then I would move to E004 | 16:16 |
| anteaya | markus_z: so have we addressed E011 to your satisfaction? | 16:16 |
| markus_z | anteaya: After todays infra meeting, I think. | 16:17 |
| anteaya | okay so E011 is how do we migrate? | 16:17 |
| markus_z | anteaya: yes | 16:17 |
| anteaya | great, thanks, are you willing to update your etherpad to reflect our agreement on the definition of E011? | 16:18 |
| fungi | this is the catch-22 we're desperately trying to push past. it's hard to have a solid migration plan without knowing what everyone needs, but if people won't tell us their needs without a migration plan we're sunk | 16:18 |
| anteaya | fungi: agreed | 16:18 |
| markus_z | I understand that | 16:19 |
| anteaya | great, thank you | 16:19 |
| anteaya | and I just realized I was looking at the wrong section of the etherpad | 16:20 |
| anteaya | I was looking at F011 | 16:20 |
| anteaya | and we have been discussing E011 | 16:20 |
| markus_z | anteaya: I'll update E011 after the infra meeting | 16:20 |
| markus_z | Ah, yeah, now I get the confusion :) | 16:21 |
| * anteaya looks at the E0 section of the etherpad now | 16:21 | |
| anteaya | sorry about that | 16:21 |
| markus_z | The "F" section are minor nitpicks, not worthy to discuss it now. | 16:21 |
| anteaya | ah yes, thank you | 16:21 |
| anteaya | okay so E011 has an agenda item and it looks to me like we can all make it to today's infra meeting | 16:22 |
| anteaya | so E004 is the next item you would like to discuss? | 16:22 |
| markus_z | yes | 16:22 |
| anteaya | you would like to add an additional task status entitled "incomplete" is that correct? | 16:23 |
| markus_z | Around 1/3 of Nova's incoming bugs need more information to be actionable. | 16:23 |
| markus_z | yes | 16:23 |
| anteaya | great thank you | 16:23 |
| anteaya | I'll create a story | 16:23 |
| markus_z | or "needs information" or something like that | 16:23 |
| anteaya | would you like it to be needs information rather than incomplete? | 16:23 |
| persia | markus_z: Would you say that the "incomplete" state applies to a task or to a story? | 16:24 |
| markus_z | "needs information" is the term bugzilla uses and explains a little more what it symbolizes: The report is not actionable yet and we need more information from the original reporter. | 16:24 |
| anteaya | markus_z: thank you | 16:24 |
| markus_z | persia: I guess both, to be honest | 16:25 |
| SotK | in my mental model of storyboard the "incomplete" part would be the story, but I may be wrong | 16:25 |
| SotK | since the filer of the bug may not know what tasks are required to fix it, but should at least give a good description of the issue | 16:25 |
| markus_z | I can have tasks in different openstack projects, Neutron and Nova for example. The path forward could be clear for Neutron, but Nova isn't there yet. | 16:26 |
| persia | markus_z: Thanks. In my head, it applies mostly to story, but I can see task as well, to some degree, if there is dispute over a specific activity within a story (rather than whether the story is even meaningful). As a matter of note, I believe most stories are likely to have one task, for the common case of bug reports and minor features. | 16:26 |
| anteaya | markus_z: does this communicate what you would like? https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000674 | 16:27 |
| SotK | markus_z: to me that would still be the story being incomplete, it is missing tasks, rather than the tasks themselves being incomplete | 16:27 |
| markus_z | anteaya: yes, that fits. | 16:27 |
| anteaya | markus_z: great thank you, are you willing to subscribe and keep us updated on your feedback on that feature? | 16:28 |
| fungi | in lp's model, the incomplete status applied to a bugtask rather than the entire bug, however lp's bugtasks were somewhere between what a story is and what a task is since they aren't as fine-grained as sb in that regard | 16:28 |
| markus_z | SotK: That's the general confusion with "incomplete". | 16:28 |
| markus_z | anteaya: subscribed | 16:28 |
| anteaya | markus_z: thank you | 16:29 |
| persia | fungi: Do you mean because one cannot have two LP tasks against the same project (ignoring branches for now)? | 16:30 |
| markus_z | Just as reminder where I'm coming from, I'm mostly working with bug reports. I see that "user stories" are a generic thing for bugs / RFEs / workitems. I evaluated SB only from a bug reports point of view. | 16:30 |
| anteaya | markus_z: thanks for sharing that perspective | 16:31 |
| persia | markus_z: That is the best viewpoint from which to evaluate in order to understand whether SB is suitable for tracking and triaging user reports. | 16:31 |
| fungi | persia: that basically, yes | 16:31 |
| anteaya | markus_z: and yes storyboard should be usable from a bugs only point of view | 16:31 |
| anteaya | markus_z: while you are here, are there other items on your E0 list you consider critical? | 16:32 |
| fungi | persia: that because a bugtask is per project/branch, you can declare this bug incomplete for nova stable/mitaka (and lp tasks have no real description beyond a project, branch, status, asignee and target milestone) | 16:32 |
| * SotK wonders if being able to tag a story as "needs-more-information" or something works without needing any extra work (except auto-subscribing users to their created stories) | 16:32 | |
| anteaya | SotK: can you add that as a comment to the story? | 16:32 |
| markus_z | anteaya: I added a "summary" below the Exxx section. "absolute essential aka "things will burn if not available": E001 + E002 + E004 + E008 + E011" | 16:32 |
| markus_z | some may sound trivial | 16:33 |
| persia | fungi: Ah, so "maybe does not apply to this project(branch)", rather than "this task may not make sense" or "this story isn't complete enough to resolve". | 16:33 |
| anteaya | markus_z: okay so we have discussed 11 and 04 | 16:33 |
| anteaya | markus_z: which is the next most important? | 16:33 |
| anteaya | markus_z: no no, I don't know how you work | 16:33 |
| fungi | from a "what can we live with for now?" perspective, could we get by just having an incomplete state or tag for the story plus the ability to leave comments on the story explaining why you set that status or tag (perhaps for a project-specific reason) be enough? | 16:33 |
| anteaya | markus_z: which is why I want to talk to you, not just read lists, this helps me understand better how you work | 16:33 |
| persia | SotK: I think that works for the "this story is not actionable" case, but less so for "we don't know what this task means" or "we don't understand if this project also needs a patch". | 16:33 |
| anteaya | fungi: can you add that as a comment to the story? | 16:34 |
| fungi | anteaya: sure, which story? | 16:34 |
| anteaya | fungi: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000674 | 16:34 |
| anteaya | fungi: thanks | 16:34 |
| anteaya | tracking blockers that are identified and agreed to is important when I present to the tc | 16:34 |
| anteaya | if/when they are agreed to | 16:35 |
| anteaya | markus_z: sorry so which is the next most important blocker? | 16:35 |
| markus_z | E008 | 16:36 |
| anteaya | great, thanks | 16:36 |
| markus_z | Nova gets ~5 bug reports per day. Quite often people don't know what information they have to provide to write an actionable bug report. | 16:37 |
| markus_z | LP allows to specify a text below the description field when I create a new bug report. | 16:37 |
| SotK | is the desire for a global template or is each project likely to want different things? | 16:37 |
| anteaya | markus_z: this is a reasonable feature request | 16:37 |
| markus_z | We added a template there which can be used by a bug reporter to check if the needed information is attached. | 16:37 |
| markus_z | If the information is not provided, we specify what's needed and switch the status to (LP's) "incomplete" status. | 16:38 |
| markus_z | If it's "incomplete" for 60 days, LP closes the bug report automatically. I quite often close them earlier if the reporter doesn't provide the information although we asked 2 times. | 16:39 |
| anteaya | https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000675 | 16:39 |
| markus_z | got it | 16:40 |
| anteaya | markus_z: thank you, does the title description and task communicate what you want from this feature? | 16:41 |
| markus_z | yes, I also left comments | 16:41 |
| anteaya | markus_z: thank you | 16:41 |
| anteaya | markus_z: have you a link to launchpad to show how this template is displayed to bug reporters? | 16:42 |
| markus_z | one sec | 16:43 |
| anteaya | thanks | 16:43 |
| anteaya | persia: can you add your comments to https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000674 when you have a chance? | 16:43 |
| persia | anteaya: I have nothing to add at this point: I only wanted to clarify the issue, and I think the current story and comments capture it well. | 16:44 |
| anteaya | persia: okay thank you | 16:45 |
| anteaya | I just didn't want to miss anything | 16:45 |
| markus_z | puh, not sure if that works: http://tinypic.com/r/mvkw0m/9 | 16:45 |
| persia | Understood. | 16:45 |
| anteaya | thanks | 16:45 |
| anteaya | markus_z: I find imgur has less advertizing for sharing images | 16:45 |
| anteaya | that site is giving my pop-up windows | 16:46 |
| markus_z | yeah, let me re-upload that, that was ugly... | 16:46 |
| anteaya | it was so | 16:46 |
| * anteaya waits | 16:46 | |
| persia | Note that LP only shows the template for the first task creation: when someone creates a second task, the template for the second project is not displayed. I don't know that this affects anything about the issue, but want to make sure we have a common understanding. | 16:46 |
| anteaya | persia: that would be a wonderful comment on the story | 16:46 |
| persia | which story? I thought we had moved from "incomplete" to discussions of templates. | 16:47 |
| markus_z | If I make frontpage with that? http://imgur.com/uaBVjD2 | 16:47 |
| fungi | yeah, it may be that we show the bug policy for a project _if_ someone follows the "add story" link from a project page | 16:52 |
| fungi | that's the closest thing i can come up with given the workflow | 16:52 |
| fungi | bug policy and/or list of things the project expects you to provide in a bug report | 16:52 |
| persia | That matches the LP workflow fairly closely. It's perfectly possible to create projectless bugs in LP, and add the tasks later, but there's strong social obstacles to doing so, which are probably easily translated to SB. | 16:53 |
| fungi | it still have the same problem lp does, in that you only see that when opening a single-project story and not when you add other project tasks to it later | 16:53 |
| fungi | er, has | 16:53 |
| fungi | yeah | 16:53 |
| persia | will have? | 16:53 |
| fungi | was-will have | 16:53 |
| anteaya | persia: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000674 | 16:53 |
| anteaya | markus_z: thank you that url is better | 16:54 |
| persia | anteaya: I don't believe it belongs there, unless we expand the story considerably. | 16:54 |
| fungi | but yeah, the only workflows i can come up with to make bug policies/templates active for a tracker that spans multiple projects are pretty vile. the idea is far better suited to single-project trackers | 16:54 |
| anteaya | persia: okay, I'm interested in getting markus_z the feature he wants so he can agree this is no longer a blocker | 16:54 |
| anteaya | I'm not interested in expanding | 16:55 |
| persia | anteaya: Yep. I remember a similar request from the past. I'm hoping someone can find the template story. If not, I'll create a new one. | 16:55 |
| anteaya | persia: I don't understand, I have created a story | 16:56 |
| SotK | persia, anteaya: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/157 | 16:57 |
| anteaya | markus_z: so we have communicated your needs for E008 in the story? https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000675 | 16:58 |
| anteaya | markus_z: yes? | 16:58 |
| persia | SotK: Yes. That's it. | 16:58 |
| anteaya | SotK: thank you | 16:58 |
| markus_z | anteaya: yes | 16:58 |
| anteaya | markus_z: wonderful | 16:58 |
| anteaya | markus_z: what is your next most critical blocking feature request? | 16:59 |
| markus_z | E002 | 16:59 |
| anteaya | markus_z: okay so this is about sharing query ursl | 17:00 |
| anteaya | urls | 17:00 |
| anteaya | markus_z: how much time have you spent with the search feature in the api? | 17:00 |
| markus_z | yes, exactly. | 17:00 |
| markus_z | none | 17:01 |
| SotK | I think this is this story: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000536 | 17:01 |
| anteaya | okay great | 17:01 |
| markus_z | We use it to paste browser URLs in IRC chats | 17:01 |
| anteaya | markus_z: can I bounce E002 back to you as a request to investigate the search queries in the api? | 17:01 |
| anteaya | markus_z: I understand and right now I believe the search features in the api will get the information | 17:01 |
| markus_z | anteaya: I don't think that would solve it. The story SotK posted is the issue. | 17:02 |
| anteaya | the longer conversation is the kind of guis people want to display the information | 17:02 |
| markus_z | Although, after thinking more about it, we could mitigate it with "worklists". | 17:02 |
| anteaya | markus_z: could we? | 17:03 |
| persia | markus_z: I don't know what searches you are using, but when I used to do a lot of bug triage with LP, the searches were usually "things with tag X" or "things with status Y", perhaps mixed with team assignment, etc. I think automatic worklists are probably the best way to capture that, so that you can edit the criteria (if needed) without remarketing the URL. | 17:03 |
| persia | That said, your needs may differ. | 17:03 |
| markus_z | I think it would fit 80% of the use cases (at least for me). | 17:04 |
| anteaya | markus_z: can I give E002 back to you for further investigation? | 17:04 |
| anteaya | markus_z: if using worklists can suit the need here, that would be ideal, as they are already built | 17:04 |
| markus_z | anteaya: yes, I add a note that it's not critical and can be mitigated | 17:05 |
| anteaya | markus_z: wonderful thanks so much, please practice with worklists especially sharing them and do come back if you discover an edge case there | 17:05 |
| anteaya | markus_z: also if you could comment on https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000536 that would be great | 17:06 |
| markus_z | will do | 17:06 |
| anteaya | markus_z: thank you | 17:06 |
| anteaya | markus_z: do we have any critical blocking feature requests remaining on your list? | 17:06 |
| markus_z | E001 | 17:07 |
| markus_z | sounds extremely trivial, but we need that to avoid confusion and to work properly with worklists matching tags | 17:07 |
| anteaya | markus_z: no no, I agree with you | 17:07 |
| Zara | should we remove e002 from the summary on line 167? | 17:08 |
| anteaya | other wise you get lhf Lhf LHF low-hanging-fruit low-hf | 17:08 |
| markus_z | background: we tag bug reports with "libvirt" (for example) and a subteam in Nova queries for that tag. They don't find bug reports tagged with "lib-virt" | 17:08 |
| markus_z | right | 17:08 |
| markus_z | Zara: removed | 17:08 |
| anteaya | do we have a story going about tag completion or viewing tags already in existance? | 17:09 |
| Zara | markus_z: thanks :) | 17:09 |
| anteaya | or some way of knowing what syntax to re-use an existing tag? | 17:09 |
| anteaya | I can create one but thought there might already be something in the works | 17:10 |
| * anteaya creates one | 17:11 | |
| anteaya | https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000676 | 17:12 |
| anteaya | markus_z: does that communicate the functionality we are looking for here? | 17:13 |
| anteaya | SotK: Zara when I create an automatic worklist, can I filter on a tag? | 17:14 |
| markus_z | anteaya: Maybe adding something like "... accesses a list of existing tags >which match the users input< to select from to add a tag to a story" | 17:14 |
| markus_z | But that's maybe already implied ^ | 17:14 |
| markus_z | I don't want the user to scroll a full list of all tags. Nova uses a lot. | 17:15 |
| markus_z | example: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/BugTriage#Tag_Owner_List | 17:15 |
| persia | Type ahead is likely the most accessible UX. | 17:15 |
| anteaya | markus_z: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/worklist/129 | 17:15 |
| SotK | persia: +inf | 17:15 |
| Zara | anteaya: yes | 17:15 |
| anteaya | markus_z: can you add that comment to the story? | 17:15 |
| persia | Or edit the description, if that is the intent. | 17:16 |
| anteaya | Zara: awesome, I didn't see a way to do that in the gui, is that only availalbe via the api right now? | 17:16 |
| markus_z | anteaya: added it | 17:17 |
| anteaya | markus_z: thank you | 17:17 |
| Zara | anteaya: it should work if you search for 'tasks' matching... and then start typing; tags should be suggested | 17:17 |
| Zara | so it's available in the gui | 17:17 |
| anteaya | Zara: ah thank you | 17:17 |
| Zara | sorry, *stories matching | 17:17 |
| markus_z | Zara: I saw it somewhere, I think when creating a worklist. | 17:18 |
| Zara | \o/ | 17:18 |
| anteaya | Zara: thank you, that worked | 17:18 |
| Zara | yay! | 17:18 |
| markus_z | \o\ | 17:18 |
| Zara | tags gave us some trouble, so that's always nice to hear xD | 17:18 |
| markus_z | they are absolutely necessary. Nova has ~650 bug reports, that amount is not comprehensible by a human | 17:19 |
| markus_z | we need to create sub-sets | 17:19 |
| anteaya | markus_z: does the story https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000676 accurately communicate the feature needed here? | 17:20 |
| markus_z | yes | 17:21 |
| anteaya | wonderful | 17:21 |
| anteaya | are there any other critial migration blocking features requested on your list? | 17:21 |
| markus_z | no, that's it. Be aware that the other items on the "E" list can be mitigated and are not yet resolved. | 17:23 |
| markus_z | I only noted things which really hurt. And that only from my very personal point of view. | 17:23 |
| anteaya | markus_z: let's have another discussion if any of the items on E become a migration critical blocking feature | 17:24 |
| markus_z | I do recommend to check with other projects (Cinder, Neutron, ...) too | 17:24 |
| anteaya | markus_z: oh I am going to | 17:24 |
| anteaya | but I wanted to start with you first | 17:24 |
| anteaya | markus_z: are we agreed that as of today this worklist communicates our agreed work items that are critical for storyboard migration, as far as you are concerned: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/worklist/129 | 17:24 |
| markus_z | yes (I'm torn with E003 though: not having "critical" as an importance level). | 17:25 |
| anteaya | did we discuss E003? | 17:26 |
| markus_z | no, sorry, we didn't | 17:26 |
| anteaya | okay let's discuss it now | 17:26 |
| persia | markus_z: https://review.openstack.org/312666 changes that in such a way that it becomes impossible to have E003 | 17:26 |
| markus_z | sure, it's pretty straight forward | 17:26 |
| anteaya | so right now we have high medium and low | 17:27 |
| persia | Instead, you'd use a manual worklist to assign those. | 17:27 |
| anteaya | markus_z: you would like high medium low and critical | 17:27 |
| markus_z | anteaya: yes | 17:27 |
| anteaya | okay thank you | 17:27 |
| anteaya | now, as persia points out high medium low and critical conflicts with another design direction | 17:28 |
| anteaya | the design direciton of removing high medium low and critical | 17:28 |
| anteaya | I can't say as I agree with this design decision | 17:28 |
| markus_z | sec, I'm trying to understand the change | 17:28 |
| anteaya | but as persia points out a patch exists to impliment it | 17:28 |
| anteaya | markus_z: take your time | 17:28 |
| markus_z | what does "simple/global priority" mean? | 17:29 |
| anteaya | persia: can you explain | 17:29 |
| * persia hunts for the wiki page | 17:29 | |
| anteaya | markus_z: I don't understand it well myself, I'm not the best person to explain | 17:30 |
| persia | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Task_Lists is one of them | 17:30 |
| persia | There was another | 17:30 |
| persia | Anyway, the main point is that different people and groups have different priorities for different tasks. | 17:30 |
| SotK | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Priority | 17:30 |
| persia | SotK: Thanks. | 17:30 |
| Zara | yeah, so atm a task has a priority, that's the same for every user. in practice, different developers have different priorities, depending on the priorities of their managers, etc. | 17:30 |
| Zara | so the patch is designed to show the prominence of a task or story in the worklist of someone a developer cares about | 17:30 |
| Zara | eg: their manager | 17:31 |
| Zara | it might not be a manager, that's just an example | 17:31 |
| persia | So the idea is to be able to expose this, so that a project team can set priorities, or a single manager at an org can set priorities, etc., without these coming into conflict. | 17:31 |
| persia | And users can select which priority authorities they wish to honor, and understand priority that way. | 17:31 |
| Zara | so I guess you could have 'nova super important worklist', put tasks in that, and it'd show up in the relevant stories | 17:32 |
| Zara | iff you subscribed to that worklist | 17:32 |
| SotK | indeed | 17:32 |
| persia | For clear things, like regressions, information leakage, data loss, privelege escalation, etc., tags tend to be more useful. | 17:32 |
| persia | (these are many of the noncontroversial sources of "critical") | 17:32 |
| fungi | i think it reflects reality more than just having priority/urgency categories set by a specific bug team (which they then end up overloading with other meanings anyway that aren't necessarily reflected in those rigid names) | 17:32 |
| fungi | actual prioritization would let you specify that for a particular team or assignee even, this one critical task is going to get worked on before this other critical task | 17:33 |
| markus_z | OK, I see where you're coming from. Innovative and I can see it work. I suggest to communicate that very very good. | 17:34 |
| anteaya | markus_z: agreed | 17:34 |
| persia | Which model can work well in a strictly hierarchical organisation with clear delineation of tasks, but works less well in a non-hierarchical environment with elastic resources and loose boundaries. | 17:34 |
| fungi | and when you increase the priority of a task, you immediately see the effect it has on deprioritizing other tasks | 17:34 |
| Zara | ooh, that's true, I hadn't thought of that | 17:34 |
| anteaya | markus_z: having your input on the communcation workflow would be my ideal here | 17:34 |
| persia | +1 | 17:35 |
| markus_z | anteaya: to be honest, I'd like to have shorty (<2min) youtube videos on that. | 17:35 |
| markus_z | but I'm very visually inclined. Others love text. | 17:35 |
| anteaya | markus_z: well videos are hard to maintain | 17:35 |
| anteaya | markus_z: I too am visually inclined and have thought about it, but videos once out of date need to be completely redone | 17:36 |
| anteaya | basically we would need a full time person to keep up | 17:36 |
| anteaya | but I hear where you are coming from | 17:36 |
| markus_z | I think we only would need them for the transition period. After that it's tribe knowledge and gets spread by mouth to ear. | 17:36 |
| anteaya | markus_z: can we agree to discuss E003 again later in the week? | 17:36 |
| markus_z | sure | 17:36 |
| anteaya | after you have had a day or so to digest and perhaps have a play with the worklists with this in mind? | 17:37 |
| markus_z | I already played around with worklists and boards, I think I get the possibilities. | 17:37 |
| anteaya | great | 17:37 |
| anteaya | so given we are going to discuss some workflow to communicate critial, can we agree this is the list of critical blocking features as far as you know, today? https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/worklist/129 | 17:38 |
| markus_z | TIL: "MoSCoW model" | 17:38 |
| markus_z | :) | 17:38 |
| markus_z | anteaya: yes | 17:38 |
| anteaya | yay! | 17:39 |
| anteaya | we have gotten to yes! | 17:39 |
| anteaya | thank you markus_z | 17:39 |
| anteaya | I really appreciate your time and help here | 17:39 |
| anteaya | Zara: and SotK I'm assuming you already are aware of the existance of https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/worklist/129 | 17:39 |
| markus_z | sure, you're welcome. | 17:40 |
| markus_z | I'm heading home, have dinner and will then be at the infra meeting. Which channel will it be? | 17:40 |
| SotK | #openstack-meeting | 17:40 |
| anteaya | markus_z: wonderful, thank you | 17:41 |
| markus_z | okily dokily, see you later | 17:41 |
| *** markus_z has quit IRC | 17:41 | |
| anteaya | thank you | 17:42 |
| anteaya | dmsimard: thanks for your patience with me | 17:42 |
| anteaya | dmsimard: were you wanting to discuss storyboard gerrit integration? | 17:42 |
| dmsimard | anteaya: no | 17:43 |
| anteaya | ah I mis-understood | 17:43 |
| anteaya | what feature were you looking for? | 17:43 |
| dmsimard | I wanted to know if someone had though of doing | 17:43 |
| dmsimard | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1592564 | 17:43 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1592564 in neutron "gate-neutron-lbaasv2-dsvm-minimal is failing" [Critical,Fix committed] - Assigned to Elena Ezhova (eezhova) | 17:43 |
| dmsimard | ^ this | 17:43 |
| dmsimard | but for storyboard bug links | 17:43 |
| anteaya | ah | 17:43 |
| dmsimard | the bot describing the link | 17:44 |
| anteaya | good question | 17:44 |
| anteaya | yes, I haven't heard of that discussion previously | 17:44 |
| dmsimard | if I'm pointed in the right direction, I can probably look | 17:45 |
| anteaya | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23storyboard/%23storyboard.2016-07-19.log.html#t2016-07-19T15:52:13 | 17:45 |
| dmsimard | I glanced at the meetbot code but that doesn't look like the right place (there's no mention of launchpad anywhere) | 17:45 |
| anteaya | according to fungi he feels the code resides in our meetbot | 17:45 |
| SotK | it was on the old roadmap | 17:45 |
| anteaya | hmmmm | 17:45 |
| anteaya | SotK: oh was it? | 17:45 |
| SotK | idk if/where the related discussion to that is | 17:45 |
| anteaya | fair enough | 17:45 |
| SotK | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Roadmap in part 1.2.3 | 17:46 |
| fungi | dmsimard: i'll find the link, though i believe it's a plugin | 17:46 |
| dmsimard | fungi: I looked here: https://github.com/openstack-infra/meetbot | 17:46 |
| anteaya | SotK: thanks I had never seen that page before | 17:46 |
| SotK | note that the roadmap is totally deprecated since its from before Zara and I took over | 17:47 |
| anteaya | SotK: noted | 17:47 |
| anteaya | but thanks for sharing, history can be useful | 17:47 |
| fungi | dmsimard: it appears it's a separate plugin we install from an outside repo https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-meetbot/tree/manifests/init.pp#n18 | 17:48 |
| fungi | dmsimard: *shudder* with bzr! | 17:48 |
| Zara | :D | 17:49 |
| fungi | dmsimard: might be able to just fork that and make a similar plugin for sb that can load alongside it | 17:49 |
| dmsimard | bzr | 17:49 |
| dmsimard | ew | 17:49 |
| Zara | I discovered fossil recently; that was exciting. | 17:49 |
| fungi | dmsimard: or perhaps submit a patch to lp:ubuntu-bots if you can stomach bzr for a few minutes | 17:50 |
| fungi | they might not mind it supporting our storyboard url | 17:50 |
| fungi | though it really seems openstack-specific enough we likely need a separate plugin | 17:50 |
| persia | A separate plugin is probably best: there are a number of storyboard instances in the wild, so there's a higher chance of more folk sharing if it isn't a single solution (unless folk want to maintain a lookup table and only trigger on things like "openstack story #1111" | 17:53 |
| anteaya | Zara: SotK are you able to work on any of these stories? https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/worklist/129 | 17:58 |
| anteaya | or if you don't know the answer, do you know when you would know the answer? | 17:59 |
| Zara | we might know next monday, though I think a list with input from multiple projects may be necessary | 18:06 |
| anteaya | oh well actually I was hoping we could address these first | 18:07 |
| anteaya | as this is blocking nova | 18:07 |
| anteaya | so it isnt' going to stop blokcing nova even if noone else agrees | 18:07 |
| anteaya | my process is to talk to one person at a time | 18:08 |
| anteaya | clarify their list | 18:08 |
| anteaya | get agreement | 18:08 |
| anteaya | address their blockers | 18:08 |
| anteaya | then talk to others | 18:08 |
| anteaya | hopefully as conversations progress we get fewer or no blockers | 18:08 |
| anteaya | untill everyone we talk to says let's move tomorrow | 18:08 |
| anteaya | at best my group of stakeholders for this part is about 5 peole | 18:09 |
| anteaya | I'm not going to go to groups until these blockers are addressed | 18:09 |
| anteaya | I don't need a mob to tell me that markus can't get work done withouth these features | 18:10 |
| Zara | well, at the moment the wording of the stories specifies implementations; there's a chance projects might change their views on the exact needed implementations of things if they conflict with other projects' priorities, if the problems can be addressed in a form that works well enough for the short term, so it's hard to estimate work with accuracy. | 18:10 |
| anteaya | Zara: okay can we change the wording of the stories? | 18:10 |
| anteaya | and remove the implimentation parts? | 18:10 |
| Zara | yeah, I think that would help | 18:11 |
| anteaya | great | 18:11 |
| anteaya | do you have time to work with me on that? | 18:11 |
| anteaya | if not, when would you have time? | 18:12 |
| Zara | sure. :) so something like 'make it clear when a story is incomplete' instead of 'add a story status' and 'make it clear when user has not submitted enough detail in a bug report' instead of 'add bug template'. then it should be fine if people discuss suggested implementations in the description | 18:12 |
| anteaya | keep in mind I am in portland and am going to attempt to squeeze into the meeting room if I can | 18:12 |
| Zara | and comments | 18:12 |
| Zara | hehe, thank you :) | 18:12 |
| anteaya | oh wonderful, I can do that | 18:13 |
| Zara | \o/ | 18:13 |
| * SotK worries that this approach will lead to an endless cycle of fixing people's perceived blockers | 18:14 | |
| anteaya | Zara: how's that? https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000674 | 18:16 |
| anteaya | SotK: well that is my role, to determine the list of people to approach at this stage and to clearly identiy work items and missing features | 18:17 |
| anteaya | SotK: if you feel you are in an endless cycle of fixing people's percieved blockers do say something, as it is my role to ensure you can make progress, not waste your time chasing your tails | 18:18 |
| anteaya | also | 18:18 |
| anteaya | not everyone will be ready at the same time | 18:18 |
| anteaya | I am asking stakeholders and then will report to the tc for a decision | 18:18 |
| anteaya | some parts of the community may never be ready, I accept that | 18:19 |
| anteaya | some people may never be happy, I also accept that | 18:19 |
| Zara | anteaya: that looks fine to me. | 18:19 |
| anteaya | Zara: great thank you | 18:19 |
| anteaya | SotK: but if you feel you are going in circles do say something | 18:19 |
| anteaya | also please don't work on anything that I did not mark as a critical blocking feature thinking it is a critical blocking feature | 18:22 |
| anteaya | that is my role here, to go through the process with stakeholders and clearly identify and agree what the critical blocking features are | 18:23 |
| SotK | so, I think that that sounds sensible, but I think that delaying talking to others until the previous person's blockers are addressed will lead to us (a) potentially doing more work than we need to and (b) implementing something in such a way that it causes further problems for someone else | 18:23 |
| anteaya | since I'm using a tag, it is available to anyone, but please only consider the ones that I added the tag to | 18:24 |
| zaro | would anybody be interested in adding some documentation to docs.o.o for gerrit storyboard integration? | 18:24 |
| anteaya | SotK: okay that is fair | 18:24 |
| anteaya | zaro: good question | 18:24 |
| anteaya | zaro: what do you envision the docs communicating | 18:24 |
| zaro | not sure if it would be more appropriate in gerrit or storyboard section though. | 18:24 |
| anteaya | SotK: are you or Zara willing to claim any of the tasks as they stand now? | 18:25 |
| anteaya | zaro: well we can always put it in one place and link to the other | 18:25 |
| zaro | anteaya: so i see there's a bunch of info on how gerrit is integrated with other tools http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/gerrit.html | 18:25 |
| anteaya | storyboard docs would probably migrate faster | 18:25 |
| anteaya | merge faster | 18:25 |
| zaro | i'm thinking it would make sense to add a section for storyboard integration | 18:26 |
| anteaya | SotK: I would like to move through these as they come up, rather than gather an huge list (which others will have an emtional response to, they can't help it) can create an emotional response of "storyboard isn't ready" | 18:26 |
| anteaya | SotK: I'd like to keep the list small and work through items | 18:27 |
| Zara | I share SotK's concern that people will add items as we go. | 18:27 |
| anteaya | right now the list is 3 items long, that gives me a sense of comfort and manageability | 18:27 |
| anteaya | I'm the only one adding items | 18:27 |
| anteaya | if folks other than me are adding items please ignore anything I dno't add and direct them to me | 18:27 |
| anteaya | and the way I want to add items is by going through the process that I went through with markus | 18:28 |
| anteaya | I can't guarentee that is the only way I will add items but that is my preferred way | 18:28 |
| anteaya | someone saying "I want this" doesn't make it a migration critial feature | 18:29 |
| anteaya | do you have any feedback on the process in which I engaged with markus | 18:29 |
| anteaya | do you disagree with any of the items on the list? | 18:30 |
| anteaya | I had offered to take this role as I had felt that you trust me | 18:30 |
| anteaya | it appears I have been presumptive | 18:30 |
| anteaya | it appears you don't trust me | 18:30 |
| anteaya | that's fine | 18:30 |
| anteaya | is there anything I can do to earn your trust? | 18:31 |
| anteaya | is there someone you trust more than me that you would prefer in this role? | 18:31 |
| anteaya | if I go through all this work and you don't want to implement the features, that really is a big waste of my time | 18:31 |
| anteaya | and yours | 18:31 |
| anteaya | please tell me whether or not you want me to continue in this role | 18:32 |
| anteaya | because if you don't want to work on the features that I whittle down as critical with stakeholders, I'm really doing the community a dis-service by staying in this role | 18:33 |
| Zara | I said I might have information later because I cannot speak for my manager (who has gone home for the night!). a list that is less liable to change is easier to present to my management. there's nothing personal about it. | 18:34 |
| * SotK would like you to continue, I do trust you :) | 18:35 | |
| anteaya | I can make zero guarentees on change | 18:35 |
| anteaya | SotK: thank you Adam | 18:35 |
| anteaya | I can say that an implemented feature (like worklists) will be offered as a solution to a percieved need (sharable urls) | 18:35 |
| anteaya | if the feature is implemented | 18:36 |
| anteaya | which is my strategy to avoid bikeshedding | 18:36 |
| Zara | and please don't confuse us giving you our concerns on an approach for rejecting everything you do, we want to be able to say when we see things that might cause problems down the line | 18:36 |
| anteaya | again, I can't please all the people, nor do I have that as a goal | 18:36 |
| anteaya | Zara: great, I am glad to hear your feedback | 18:36 |
| anteaya | I value it | 18:37 |
| Zara | np. I often don't say when I appreciate things as I'm too busy focussing on anything that I'm worried about, but it doesn't mean I don't appreciate it! :) | 18:38 |
| anteaya | okay great | 18:38 |
| anteaya | I have worked very hard to get to this point | 18:38 |
| SotK | regarding what tasks to claim, I'm happy to claim the "reuse tags" one now but can't claim any others yet | 18:38 |
| anteaya | I guess I had expected more enthusiasum for an actual list of actual agreed upon blockers | 18:38 |
| fungi | as far as finding conflicting requirements as we go, i expect that to not actually happen as long as we hold stakeholders to the "but is this something you already have with launchpad?" test | 18:39 |
| anteaya | SotK: claiming that helps me, thank you | 18:39 |
| anteaya | I appreciate it | 18:39 |
| SotK | yw :) | 18:39 |
| anteaya | :) | 18:39 |
| anteaya | SotK: can I make that story better so it removes implimentation details? | 18:39 |
| fungi | people are always happy to provide suggestions for features, and i really want to make sure that "requirements" only reflect features people are already using in the existing tracker (lp) rather than things they would like to use but don't actually exist | 18:40 |
| SotK | I also kinda think there is more discussion to be had on the other two, but that can take place on the stories themselves as we work out how best to solve the issues | 18:40 |
| fungi | not just things they already use in the tracker they have, but things they use that are essential they be able to keep using in sb | 18:41 |
| SotK | anteaya: nah, its a fairly simple story I think | 18:41 |
| anteaya | SotK: okay thank you | 18:41 |
| anteaya | SotK: yes, agreed | 18:41 |
| anteaya | I'll fix the language in the bug details story | 18:42 |
| Zara | thank you :) | 18:42 |
| anteaya | Zara: do we like this language better? https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000675 | 18:44 |
| anteaya | Zara: thanks for sharing your needs with me, I appreciate it | 18:44 |
| Zara | yes, that wording works for me, thanks! | 18:44 |
| anteaya | if I am not working in such a way that I am giving you want you need to implement work, then I'm not doing my job properly | 18:44 |
| anteaya | Zara: thank you | 18:44 |
| anteaya | if I'm not doing my job properly I need you to tell me what you need so I can get it for you | 18:45 |
| anteaya | thank you | 18:45 |
| * SotK 3 | 18:45 | |
| * SotK can't type | 18:45 | |
| anteaya | :) | 18:47 |
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