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| Zara | morning, storyboard | 12:23 |
|---|---|---|
| Zara | I realised I hadn't said morning | 12:23 |
| Zara | so morning | 12:23 |
| SotK | morning :) | 12:27 |
| Zara | protip: don't put half a hot cross bun in the toaster | 12:35 |
| Zara | there will be sparks and house-fusing and you'll lose your internet connection for a bit. | 12:36 |
| Zara | my aim is to finish the ui patch review today, anyway | 12:38 |
| Zara | oh, it's meeting today | 13:15 |
| Zara | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/278508/6 still has no reviewers but me; all other ui patches for due-dates depend on it | 13:16 |
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| Zara | maybe there should be a 'cancel' button on the 'archive this worklist' modal (there's a cross, that performs that function; I'm not sure if some users would expect a 'cancel' and panic without it | 13:39 |
| persia | I really don't like having two ways to accomplish the same thing on a small dialog: choice causes paralysis, so should be limited to cases where the choice provides sufficient value to be worth this. | 13:44 |
| Zara | yeah, the reason I'm asking is because it's not clear to me if it does. it doesn't perform a third function. it does make things more familiar for people used to windows etc (just anecdotally, if I'm browsing around and something has a cross but no cancel button, I feel like it's trying to trick me into clicking 'okay', because popups do this while legit software tends to include a cancel button). | 13:48 |
| Zara | but I don't want to generalise to everyone from that | 13:48 |
| persia | heh, it's a bit tricky to get right. Maybe some UX person is lurking and can give a good answer :) | 13:49 |
| Zara | :) hope so | 14:01 |
| Zara | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/284280/ has a test fail that looks different to usual | 14:02 |
| Zara | I'm not sure what's going on; npm does warn about a dependency being deprecated but I'm not sure it's related | 14:02 |
| Zara | it didn't seeeeem to be a timeout, could be wrong | 14:02 |
| SotK | huh, looks weird | 14:03 |
| Zara | yeah. the other patches on the topic seem fine | 14:03 |
| Zara | so I'm not sure if it was just jenkins being strange etc | 14:04 |
| * SotK tries a recheck | 14:04 | |
| Zara | hm, so card modal-- not sure why we still have dropdown menu, since we can now edit things by clicking them | 14:17 |
| Zara | (er, modal shown when card is clicked) | 14:17 |
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| Zara | alllso I think we need to better visually separate things in the card modal, since it's a bit wall-of-texty (I don't think I found this earlier, so I'm wondering if it changed, or if I'm just imagining that...) | 14:23 |
| Zara | and I will continue to remind that due date titles should not be displayed on cards by default imo | 14:25 |
| Zara | even though I know that's in the todos | 14:25 |
| SotK | I made the dropdown because I like choice, but I'm happy to not have it if its confusing | 14:28 |
| Zara | yeah, I don't see how it gives an advantage here (it's two clicks instead of one) | 14:29 |
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| * SotK successfully creates a worklist which automatically shows all tasks in a story which are not merged :D | 14:50 | |
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| Zara | :D | 14:53 |
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| Zara | my next question is inevitably: does this update if their statuses are changed? | 14:53 |
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| SotK | you need to refresh it, but yes | 14:55 |
| Zara | oooh, aces | 14:55 |
| SotK | how much do we care about being able to say "match any of these filters" as well as "match all of these filters" | 14:55 |
| SotK | probably a lot | 14:55 |
| Zara | I think so, though also think it's fine to start small and add that if it prooves fiddly. | 14:56 |
| Zara | *add that later | 14:56 |
| * SotK decides he cares a lot | 14:56 | |
| SotK | it should be easy, if I don't forget how sqlalchemy works again :D | 14:56 |
| * Zara assumes we'll be working on it in barcelona. =D | 14:57 | |
| Zara | but seriously, yay, well done! | 14:57 |
| Zara | meeting time! | 14:59 |
| betherly | re the earlier cancel / x to close convo | 15:04 |
| betherly | i would say it probably depends on what the situation is and how long the modal is to close. if it is a long form for example it is worth having an x at the top and a cancel before submission at the end | 15:05 |
| betherly | in a general case though i would think just having a cancel button would suffice | 15:05 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient: Make header 'quick navigate' and 'search' clearer https://review.openstack.org/278987 | 15:28 |
| persia | I'm not that excited about continuing: to me the key points are 1) "bug" is a loaded word with lots of meanings that can be confusing: using it needs thought (especially for hardcoded metadata), and 2) task relationships are really complicated, and deserve lots of thought. | 16:01 |
| persia | I'm happy to discuss these more, if people want, either to share past discussions I've had, or to hear new arguments that make these sufficiently important to be worth figuring out *now*. | 16:02 |
| persia | But if others are also unexercised, I suspect it's better to think about them slowly, until an idea comes to mind. | 16:02 |
| * betherly is going into a call now so will be unable to respond for a bit. ping me if anything specific i should scroll back to | 16:03 | |
| Zara | I'm not interested in it atm; I think tracking task-dependencies comes down more to social factors. | 16:04 |
| * SotK is also unexcited about it atm | 16:05 | |
| * persia is delighted by the clear consensus on this issue :) | 16:05 | |
| * faybrocklebank feels like she has missed context - what are people not excited about? | 16:05 | |
| persia | faybrocklebank: From -meeting: continuing discussions on some of the topics from the weekly meeting. | 16:06 |
| faybrocklebank | aha - that explains why I'm not following | 16:06 |
| SotK | faybrocklebank: see http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2016/storyboard.2016-03-02-15.00.log.html for context | 16:06 |
| SotK | (specifically towards the end) | 16:06 |
| Zara | (we can put a lot of work into modelling things, and then people just won't update the tracker, because they'll just go 'btw the stuff I'm doing depends on your config patch' on irc, etc) | 16:06 |
| Zara | if it's quicker to nudge someone that way, anyway. | 16:07 |
| * faybrocklebank is also not excited | 16:08 | |
| persia | Indeed, and I believe there is social value to encouraging active collaboration on IRC, in realtime, rather than chasing notifications in some system. | 16:09 |
| * persia has lately been considering Storyboard as "A system for capturing and collaborating on expressions of desire and intent". | 16:09 | |
| Zara | I don't think it's catchy enough. | 16:10 |
| persia | heh, no, but it has helped me to think about the core issues. | 16:12 |
| Zara | :P | 16:12 |
| persia | "A system for tracking bugs" is vague. Even "A system for tracking tasks" gets complicated. Whereas if I think that the goal is about letting people express desire (what they want the system to do) and intent (what they plan to do to cause this to happen), a number of things become more clear, or easier to articulate. | 16:13 |
| Zara | I think those are often assumptions built into 'a system for tracking bugs'/'a system for tracking tasks', and you could end up zooming in infinitely (eg: desires/intents for what? and why?). | 16:17 |
| persia | Quite possibly I'll end up zooming more over more time. | 16:19 |
| Zara | once you get to 'why', you're into infinite regress territory, and there's no turning back. :) | 16:20 |
| persia | But when talking about "bugs", one gets into a huge argument about whether a given thing is a "bug" or not, such that either one uses an entirely different system to track activity, or one has lots of "workflow bugs". | 16:20 |
| persia | The key solution to "Why" is the combination of delegation and non-recursion :p | 16:21 |
| persia | When talking about "tasks", one tends to get caught up in discussions about available resources, and marking items as "will not be done" simply because nobody is doing them within a given planning horizon, etc. | 16:21 |
| persia | I hope "desire and intent" is high enough a level that these problems can be washed away, but perhaps I'm still not looking at the problem (of determining what to do, when, by whom, and whether it was done) from the right angle. | 16:23 |
| Zara | I think huge arguments and tangential discussions are inevitable in software, whatever level you talk at, but I guess there's novelty in different ones. /pessimism | 16:37 |
| persia | heh :) | 16:38 |
| Zara | :) | 16:40 |
| persia | And, to be clear, I don't clam that uzbl must be supported: it just happens to be the lightweight browser I use for lots of quick tasks (like gerrit reviews). | 16:54 |
| SotK | persia: I can reproduce the issue on both storyboards that I'm aware of which use apache | 16:54 |
| SotK | but I cannot reproduce on my dev instance which doesn't | 16:54 |
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| SotK | so I guess it is indeed some apache config thing | 16:54 |
| persia | It had certainly worked in the past on storyboard.openstack.org, and even yesterday, it seemed to work, but when I use "edit current URL" ('O' in my keybindings), it does seem to show the behaviour today. | 16:55 |
| persia | Oh, heh, it doesn't work in your dev instance? Interesting. | 16:55 |
| SotK | it *does* work, and doesn't have "[object URL]" inserted | 16:56 |
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| * Zara posts review comments she forgot to post hours ago on modal patch | 16:56 | |
| persia | Sorry: yes, that's what I meant. "The failure mode doesn't manifest itself" is a more complete expansion of "it doesn't work" above. | 16:56 |
| Zara | (found a new problem with it, so worth it, have fun) | 16:57 |
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