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| * SotK wonders what the "done thing" is for proposing changes to the data model | 10:27 | |
| SotK | do I just write some code (+ a migration if needed) and have that be reviewed, or should I write a spec for it first? | 10:27 |
|---|---|---|
| SotK | (I want to add a table for worklists and a mapping table to map stories/tasks to worklists) | 10:28 |
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| * SotK realises he needs a table for worklist_criteria too, for the automatic worklists | 12:42 | |
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| Zara_ | still looking into url routing; I'd like the user to be able to type 'blah-story' and go to the url for the story with that title (within a project). | 12:54 |
| SotK | I guess we'd need to enforce uniqueness of story titles for that then | 12:59 |
| SotK | Also I think that stories can span multiple projects :) | 13:00 |
| SotK | does anyone see any usecase in wanting to manually change the contents of an "automatic worklist" as if it were a normal worklist? | 13:02 |
| SotK | paulsherwood, persia: ^ | 13:02 |
| Zara_ | ah, I don't think they'd need to be unique if the name of the project were part of the url (though not sure how to work around that for a set of projects) or if the stories didn't share projects, but we'd need to enforce it for those cases where they did. | 13:06 |
| Zara_ | I just know it's a pain trying to remember the numbers or navigate through the menus every time you want to go back to a story. | 13:12 |
| SotK | indeed it is :/ | 13:18 |
| * SotK tries to decide what a nice API for worklists would look like | 13:18 | |
| Zara_ | (another option, I guess, would be to ask users to put in a unique alias for a story when creating it. but that feels like extra hassle, so it'd make more sense to cut out the middleman and just enforce unique titles... but that would be way too restrictive imo. I'd lean toward checking a story's membership of different projects and going from there.) | 13:22 |
| Zara_ | idk; the menu-changing wouldn't be so time-consuming if more information were displayed per screen, but that would require a cluttered design. | 13:24 |
| SotK | I wonder if a way to quickly get back to stories you care about would be helpful | 13:26 |
| Zara_ | I think it would be; I've ended up relying on browser bookmarks, etc. might be possible to put buttons on the horizontal menu bar in a way that isn't too visually jarring | 13:31 |
| Zara_ | stories already have a 'subscribe' button, but I think that's for notifications | 13:32 |
| SotK | I believe it is, but we could probably hijack it for this too and see how it feels | 13:33 |
| Zara_ | might be possible to build something into that so that those stories can also be navigated to quickly-- although some users (me :P) might want to navigate quickly but not get notifications | 13:33 |
| SotK | hmm, perhaps a column in the subscriptions table "send_notifications" or similar, to allow "starring" a story but not getting notifications | 13:34 |
| Zara_ | yeah, or maybe have something in 'preferences'. I'm not sure; I think storyboard is really pretty. | 13:41 |
| SotK | something in preferences could work, but it might be useful to have fine-grained control of what sends notifications and what doesn't | 13:43 |
| Zara_ | yeah, agreed. well, I'd like to tweak the 'status' button because it looks like it's interactive but isn't, so maybe there'll be room there... though that raises lots of questions of its own =D | 13:46 |
| SotK | Story status is a little weird I found... if all of the tasks in it have "Merged" status then the story status is "Merged", similarly for "Invalid". If one or more tasks are *not* merged or invalid then the story is "Active". | 13:49 |
| SotK | Except the list of stories on the Project Group page appears to work slightly differently | 13:50 |
| SotK | if a story has one or more "Invalid" tasks then it shows up with the "Invalid" filter selected on that page | 13:50 |
| Zara_ | I find it a little odd that it automatically searches for 'active' stories, but also automatically includes the 'status' button. | 13:51 |
| Zara_ | makes sense to include it in other searches, but not the default. so I'd like to do *something* with it because I keep clicking on the 'active' buttons to change their status, only to be surprised when nothing happens. | 13:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/storyboard: Fix entry point for storyboard-worker-daemon https://review.openstack.org/199042 | 13:52 |
| Zara_ | :0 | 13:53 |
| ttx | Everyone: Just approved a couple changes | 13:53 |
| SotK | ttx: thanks for the reviews! | 13:53 |
| ttx | Apparently I can't approve storyboard-webclient things (anymore) | 13:53 |
| ttx | So we should figure out how to unblock you there | 13:54 |
| Zara_ | thanks, that'd be great :) | 13:54 |
| SotK | it sure would! :) | 13:55 |
| ttx | Given the number of active contributors i would advocate to give you both core reviewer rights | 13:55 |
| ttx | on both repos | 13:55 |
| ttx | Let me draft an email about that | 13:56 |
| SotK | that would be brilliant, thanks | 13:56 |
| ttx | No, thank YOU for saving this project from imminent death | 13:57 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/storyboard: Support offset/limit pagination in the API https://review.openstack.org/198297 | 14:01 |
| SotK | :) its a cool project | 14:04 |
| Zara_ | :D | 14:08 |
| ttx | SotK, Zara_: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2015-July/002905.html | 14:10 |
| ttx | Hope this will quickly unblock you. | 14:10 |
| Zara_ | :D thanks so much | 14:11 |
| ttx | let's see how that flies. Decision ultimately lies on the infra team PTL | 14:11 |
| * Zara_ crosses fingers :) | 14:13 | |
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| SotK | I wrote some notes on my thoughts about worklists so far, anyone got any comments? http://sprunge.us/YOec | 14:56 |
| Zara_ | I'm wondering how possible it would be to get similar functionality with something more generic. so maybe some kind of holding place for stories, or tasks, or projects, that can then be marked as 'favourites' or assigned to an individual, etc. | 15:21 |
| Zara_ | maybe in practice that's another part of the same thing, not sure :) | 15:24 |
| SotK | hm, yeah I could easily imagine creating a list of favourites being a use-case for worklists actually | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | Sssiiiigggghhhh | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | So, I get why you guys want cores. | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | But, frankly, y'all will make FAR more progress if you fork and go use travis instead. | 15:30 |
| krotscheck | Working under the OpenStack umbrella has done nothing but slow us down. | 15:30 |
| krotscheck | In fact, there are still policies in place where, as a member of infra, StoryBoard must have two cores approve any patch. | 15:30 |
| krotscheck | Also, SotK Thank you for using offset/limit pagination. Trying to adhere oto the OpenStack mandate of marker limit pagination basically drove us into a hole of overarchitecting. | 15:32 |
| SotK | ttx mentioned something about switching to "one +2 and two +1s" until the core team is big enough for that to be feasible again on one of the patches, so I guess it might be worth at least seeing what happens for a while rather forking straight away :) | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | SotK: Tell that to jeblair, he's the one who forced me to switch to the other one. | 15:34 |
| SotK | krotscheck: No problem, I figured that the pagination spec was going nowhere fast and found some meeting minutes with a decision to use offset/limit so went with that. I think that having the functionality at least working somewhat is better than getting blocked trying to find a perfect solution. | 15:36 |
| krotscheck | SotK: You're absolutely correct. | 15:37 |
| * krotscheck actually had the UI code for that somewhere at one point :/ | 15:37 | |
| krotscheck | Siiiiiggghhh | 15:37 |
| krotscheck | Oh man, I have all the feels about this. | 15:37 |
| krotscheck | So much frustration. So much fighting against "The OpenStack Way" | 15:37 |
| Zara_ | +1 in general to 'get things working first, agonise over ideal solutions later' | 15:38 |
| krotscheck | So, in regards to the priority description way up in scrollback, one of the things I really wanted to do is have StoryBoard acknowledge that each individual has different ways of managing their priorities. | 15:39 |
| krotscheck | So that a project would have an order in which things matter, and each individual who's working on things has priorities, since they might be on different projects and/or sequencing of tasks/stories may be different. | 15:40 |
| krotscheck | i.e. It's not StoryBoard's job to be fancy about prioritization and/or sequencing. Humans are smart engough to do that. | 15:40 |
| krotscheck | But me | 15:41 |
| krotscheck | meh | 15:41 |
| krotscheck | I'm available if y'all have any questions. | 15:42 |
| SotK | krotscheck: thanks! | 15:43 |
| krotscheck | SotK: Also, ignore everything that persia says. ;) | 15:44 |
| SotK | That sounds good, I think I just want StoryBoard to provide a way for people/projects/teams to make lists of things they care about, where the order can have meaning if they want it to. | 15:45 |
| SotK | krotscheck: why is that? :) | 15:45 |
| krotscheck | SotK: Because he's persia, duh. #nologicalfallaciesherenopenone | 15:46 |
| SotK | :D | 15:46 |
| Zara_ | krotscheck: thanks for helping us out. :) I can see why it would be frustrating/raw; it's appreciated. | 16:00 |
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| paulsherwood | krotscheck: agreed SB needs to support each individual's approach to prioritization. ideally a user can create their own view (eg 'kanban board') and prioritize there... then share or not for other users. i think SotK's outline covers this but i need to read it more thoroughly a couple of times | 16:29 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: would your oultine be better as a story in SB, rather than a paste? :) | 16:30 |
| SotK | paulsherwood: probably, when I have decided I believe what I've written :) | 16:31 |
| paulsherwood | krotscheck: regarding fork, i think that would be last resort. ideally better to improve things building on what you've achieved, from the inside if possible : | 16:32 |
| paulsherwood | :) | 16:32 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: nothing about boards there... is that intentional? | 16:33 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: Here's the thing- OpenStack doesn't appear to have any vested interest in StoryBoard anymore. Without that interest, there's no real reason to continue to support it. | 16:33 |
| SotK | paulsherwood: just thinking about worklists for now, once I've decided on my thoughts for those I'll think about how to let people arrange them into boards or dashboards or what-have-you | 16:34 |
| paulsherwood | i fear if folks consider worklists separately, key cases may be missed | 16:34 |
| paulsherwood | krotscheck: noted. but my personal view is this is just ugly duckling syndrome | 16:34 |
| paulsherwood | i've looked at a lot of potential solutions for this problem set (and maybe my set covers even more things than you've had time to care about so far) ... SB is the best place to start, imo | 16:35 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: Oh, I'm not saying you shouldn't start here. | 16:36 |
| paulsherwood | :) | 16:36 |
| SotK | paulsherwood: A good point, but I'd like to be able to have worklists without them being kanban lanes too I think. Do you have any cases in mind you're worried about? :) | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: I'm just saying that eventually you'll get wrapped up in the openstack bureaucracy. | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: And I've been burned by that, and I don't want you to be. | 16:36 |
| paulsherwood | krotscheck: again, noted. but that also is useful feedback - understanding the issues-at-scale is only possible by dealing with at-scale projects :) | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: I think you're conflating governance with technical implementation? | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: Infra, and openstack, are moving off of storyboard. | 16:38 |
| paulsherwood | krotscheck: you're almost certainly right. my colleagues tell me off for conflating stuff all the time :) | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | Meaning you won't have someone using the system at scale. | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | But at the same time, you're trying to develop under the governance process and procedures of OpenStack. | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | Which are _not_ agile. | 16:38 |
| paulsherwood | krotscheck: understood, but i think we can learn useful things even so. and maybe infra will reconsider as SB becomes its swan :) | 16:39 |
| paulsherwood | krotscheck: also, agile schmagile... i'm an embedded guy :-) | 16:40 |
| * paulsherwood does hate beaurocracy, though... so will try to be careful | 16:41 | |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: I'd be more than happy to get you guys set up on travis & github. | 16:46 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: how will you represent assignment of a worklist_item to one or more people? | 16:46 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: (Though I hear some people don't like github ;) ) | 16:46 |
| paulsherwood | krotscheck: some of us use github for other projects already, no religious objections :) | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | paulsherwood: I might be talking about persia ;) | 16:47 |
| paulsherwood | but let's see how we go here for now. if there's too much friction we may switch | 16:47 |
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| SotK | paulsherwood: A worklist_item is a reference to a Task or Story. Tasks can already be assigned, and I feel like Stories should be "assigned" to the people who are assigned to tasks in them (though I'm not sure on how to work that). | 16:49 |
| paulsherwood | SotK: i don't know database design in any detail, really, but a worklist can exist in (say) many boards. a board will have several (say) worklists. i can see clear use-case for GET all worklists belonging to a board. less obvious to me what all of the apis you've specified are actually useful for? | 16:54 |
| paulsherwood | but i expect i'm wrong | 16:55 |
| SotK | paulsherwood: I'm thinking about worklists which aren't belonging to a board at all | 16:58 |
| SotK | I think that is a worthwhile use-case, as well as a kanban board | 16:59 |
| SotK | others may disagree with me :) | 16:59 |
| paulsherwood | it's a worthwhile usecase too :) | 17:32 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit will be unavailable from 22:00 to 22:30 UTC for project renames | 21:03 | |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit is unavailable from approximately 22:00 to 22:30 UTC for project renames | 22:00 | |
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