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| mordred | krotscheck: so, sdague just proposed that blueprints be managed as reviews in gerrit - so that there is a n approval process | 01:31 |
|---|---|---|
| mordred | krotscheck: this made me think - if we did that - what if an approval of a patch to the blueprint repo | 01:31 |
| mordred | krotscheck: triggered the creation of a story with a feature tag | 01:31 |
| krotscheck | mordred: What's the end goal here. Have blueprints in git? Or have them in storyboard? | 01:33 |
| krotscheck | mordred: I mean yeah, anything can trigger anything, but is git really the correct tool for blueprinting? | 01:33 |
| krotscheck | I'm not saying that we can't have triggers like this. I feel that git's really the wrong tool though, and that it's only being proposed because it sortof kindof does what we want it to. | 01:34 |
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| rainya | mordred, is that the system design idea behind storyboard in it's current state? to expand down from gerrit into the story / task level? | 17:09 |
| mordred | oh ! look, rainya is here | 17:09 |
| rainya | yeah, sorry, forgot to actually join :D | 17:09 |
| rainya | i've got a pretty heavy scrum background and so naturally think of work in terms of epic --> story --> task structures | 17:09 |
| mordred | rainya: I believe that the gerrit portion of this is completely new and we're still woring it out | 17:10 |
| rainya | be it an ops task or a dev bug or a new feature | 17:10 |
| mordred | yeah. so this is why I think that we've actually got two different types of work we're talking about here | 17:11 |
| rainya | so i believe philip schwartz (who worked on my team at rackspace up until last week when I cleaved the team in half and got a second manager to handle the release & deploy infra at rackspace) asked around gerrit and warts | 17:11 |
| mordred | he did - and he and jeblair had a discussion about it a few days ago I believe | 17:11 |
| rainya | and it was all sorts of a reminder that I have not followed up on storyboard like I need / want to in order to avoid reinventing the world | 17:11 |
| mordred | too late! :) | 17:12 |
| rainya | what do you mean too late? | 17:12 |
| rainya | i am right on time! not worried about YOU reinventing the world | 17:12 |
| rainya | worried about my guys reinventing the world without looking at what the community is doing and hooking in there | 17:12 |
| mordred | rainya: (I was just kidding) | 17:12 |
| rainya | ah, okay! | 17:13 |
| mordred | yes. I'm thrilled to get them involved | 17:13 |
| rainya | (been a hell of a migraine week; killed my sense of humor) | 17:13 |
| mordred | oy. those are super rough | 17:13 |
| rainya | so our conclusion for our internal pain points around our iteration cycle (which we run 3 to 6 or more of during an openstack release cycle) is that we need to stand up gerrit to handle the internal release iterations | 17:13 |
| mordred | w00t | 17:14 |
| rainya | we've resisted as long as we can and we are a point where, once we have a stable pull of trunk and are ready to deploy to production and need to make the final tweaks and adjustements to configs and late discovery bugs, the time to get all the way back upstream and down (the way it SHOULD work) would blow the iteration | 17:15 |
| mordred | well - so that you know, we're doing a full copy of infra at HP now, and are about to be pushing up some of the additional things that folks have written to help track an upstream gerrit in a downstream gerrit | 17:16 |
| rainya | we handle the internal changes with github PRs, but have no actual gating (anyone with perm can merge anything really) which makes for a release engineering nightmare | 17:16 |
| mordred | so working together on this is certainly in-scope | 17:16 |
| rainya | completely | 17:16 |
| rainya | i'm also really interested in storyboard in particular because we're using redmine for internal epic/story/task/bug tracking, but if we can get a gerrit that works upstream-downstream, having a task tracking system that would work with the internal development rythmn of a company that has teams that work in the community but also folllow something like scrum or kanban because they do have products to ship would be a good thing | 17:18 |
| rainya | most developers need day jobs after all | 17:18 |
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| rainya | from a "marketing to business people" point of view, being able to model the workflow to existing development models will help too; that has been one of the hardest things about SDLC in the Rackspace public cloud personally -- people want to know what pattern it falls into so they can explain it to their boss's boss and get funding to go do what they would do for free if it weren't for that pesky need to pay bills | 17:20 |
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| mordred | rainya: ++ | 17:59 |
| mordred | rainya: well, we definitely want you to be able to use storyboard like that | 17:59 |
| * krotscheck should really set up a persistent IRC bot so he doesn't miss conversations like that | 18:41 | |
| rainya | krotscheck, it was a good conversation :) | 18:43 |
| krotscheck | rainya: Now I feel sheepish. | 18:49 |
| krotscheck | Oh well! | 18:49 |
| * krotscheck goes back to figuring out how the hell oslo does its config now. | 18:49 | |
| rainya | krotscheck, good luck with that! | 18:50 |
| rainya | and the convo was my sharing the insanity that is rackspace's software dev life cycle to the public cloud from upstream openstack and how i hope storyboard and gerrit might help | 18:51 |
| krotscheck | rainya: Oh man, yeah, would LOVE to have been in on that convo :) | 18:51 |
| rainya | and by "hope" i really mean "how i intend to share my opinion and input and influence to make it happen" | 18:51 |
| krotscheck | I'm still in sponge mode right now, absorbing how everyone handles process across different companies etc. | 18:51 |
| rainya | and dev work too when possible | 18:52 |
| krotscheck | Yay people contributing more than just opinions :D | 18:52 |
| rainya | they are very STRONG opinions | 18:52 |
| rainya | and come from 2 years of crazytrain experience | 18:52 |
| rainya | ;) | 18:53 |
| krotscheck | rainya: Yeaaaah... process is one of those things that people get up in arms about. When I took on storyboard I knew that I'd be entering a inefield. | 18:57 |
| rainya | krotscheck, my take on proces is to have just enough to keep you out of total chaos without slowing things down for the sake of process | 19:02 |
| rainya | i started life as a developer, but morphed into a application dev manager and program manager and while I have a PMP (projec tmanagement professional) i am the most un PMP-like project person you might meet (except for those times when in order to keep the chaos at bay i need to brush off my PMP tools) | 19:03 |
| krotscheck | rainya: I agree. Tooling should simplify things, not make them more complicated. | 19:03 |
| rainya | also have a strong scrum background and while i was part of the whole agile movement, the teams i ran pretty much came up with something similiar because it just made sense to do it that way | 19:04 |
| krotscheck | See, we threw most of that out because it got in the way, and built up a process around git-flow | 19:04 |
| krotscheck | (in my previous job) | 19:04 |
| rainya | where i am finding new and intersting challnges is taking those patterns that exist and work so very well in the application world, software that runs on top of a server, and apply it to the infrastructure software | 19:04 |
| krotscheck | It ended up allowing us to ship up to 7 times a week. | 19:04 |
| rainya | (my previous job was for US government, so we were very constrained and still by some miracle aka me ha! were successful) | 19:05 |
| krotscheck | Ooooh, are you one of those people who's got clearance? | 19:05 |
| rainya | nah, not anymore | 19:05 |
| rainya | OPEN! | 19:05 |
| rainya | anyway, there is similiarity in updating the web application (etsy, facebook) and the cloud operating system that runs the website, but I don't think we as an industry have made the full jump from web application world to infrastructure as software world; projects like storyboard, in my opionion, will help with that | 19:07 |
| rainya | "agile" and "scrum" didn't exist until someone saw the patterns and wrote it down | 19:07 |
| rainya | well, they existed, but they weren't a "thing" you know? | 19:07 |
| krotscheck | Right | 19:07 |
| rainya | i snagged some of the log from the earlier conversation for my future reference / notes fyi | 19:08 |
| krotscheck | Honestly, infra's done a lot to polish a method to make that process happen. There's still issues with, say provisioning instances, but this whole puppet-modules-as-vcs-repo is starting to grow on me. | 19:08 |
| krotscheck | That's a little more in the weeds though, aka implementation details. It doesn't inform process. | 19:09 |
| krotscheck | Or rather, process is implicit, and not explicitly laid down yet. | 19:09 |
| rainya | my day is winding down :) heading off to texas spring break and need to pack! | 19:19 |
| krotscheck | Go go go. | 19:21 |
| krotscheck | Enjoy :) | 19:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Updated oslo https://review.openstack.org/78496 | 19:39 |
| krotscheck | Ugh, bad thing. | 19:50 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Updated oslo https://review.openstack.org/78496 | 20:37 |
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| * krotscheck is of half a mind to rewrite the whole bloody API in java. | 21:18 | |
| gothicmindfood | krotscheck: BLASPHEMY! | 21:19 |
| krotscheck | No, seriously. This database migration bullshit has had me frustrated to the point of java. | 21:20 |
| krotscheck | jeblair, might make more sense to talk over here. | 21:20 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Updated oslo https://review.openstack.org/78496 | 21:20 |
| jeblair | yeah, but we're talking about potentially cross-project issues, so actually, -infra or -dev might be better places | 21:22 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Well, my current working theory, given the testr output, is that somewhere there's a borked file encoding. | 21:23 |
| krotscheck | Which would be a storyboard issue | 21:24 |
| jeblair | testr output? | 21:24 |
| jeblair | i'm reroducing with 'tox -evenv -- python setup.py build_sphinx' | 21:24 |
| krotscheck | Right. | 21:25 |
| jeblair | no testr involved | 21:25 |
| jeblair | and it's on an oslo update change | 21:25 |
| krotscheck | Right | 21:25 |
| krotscheck | I'm also getting a really odd (probably different) error doing 'python setup.py testr --slowest --testr-args=' | 21:26 |
| krotscheck | ...actually, ignore that | 21:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Updated oslo https://review.openstack.org/78496 | 21:46 |
| jeblair | turns out it was just storyboard. :) | 21:50 |
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| krotscheck | Thank goodness | 21:53 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Updated oslo https://review.openstack.org/78496 | 23:09 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael Krotscheck proposed a change to openstack-infra/storyboard: Added DELETE method for projects, stories, and tasks. https://review.openstack.org/77763 | 23:14 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-infra/storyboard: Add superuser check https://review.openstack.org/77859 | 23:23 |
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