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| yfgyugs87 | WARNING WARNING WARNING, WARNING | 02:32 |
| yfgyugs87 | WARNING WARNING WARNING, WARNING WARNING | 02:32 |
| yfgyugs87 | YOU MAY BE WATCHED | 02:32 |
| yfgyugs87 | YOU MAY BE WATCHED | 02:32 |
| yfgyugs87 | YOU MAY BE WATCHED | 02:32 |
| yfgyugs87 | Do usa&israel use chat&social communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!! | 02:32 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | Good evening everyone | 04:02 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Anyone here tonight that is fluent in OpenStack networking concepts? | 04:03 |
| Sam-I-Am | to some extent | 04:04 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | I am going CRAZY trying to get things up and runnig | 04:04 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Unfortunately, I am working with an older 3COM switch, which is making it tough to configure my VLANS, but that much, I can get going | 04:05 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Im just tryiong to make sure that I am on the right track | 04:05 |
| BurnedOutGeek | The networking piece is killing me | 04:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | nova-net or neutron? | 04:06 |
| BurnedOutGeek | nova-net | 04:06 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I have a dedicated 3com 4500G switch for it | 04:06 |
| BurnedOutGeek | 1 controller node, 1 storage node, and 16 compute nodes | 04:06 |
| BurnedOutGeek | all servers only have 2 1Gbe NICs | 04:06 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Im desperately trying to get OpenStack up and running to replace an existing Hyper-V environmebnt | 04:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | so whats not working? | 04:07 |
| BurnedOutGeek | well, I wasnt able to get it up and running to this point because of the switch configuration. I didnt realize that all VLANS and ports had to be configured | 04:08 |
| BurnedOutGeek | (embarassed) | 04:08 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Want me to paste my proposed VLAN config? If you could even tell me if it would work, that would be great | 04:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, thats kind of the downside to layer 2 | 04:09 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Is there some way to make it all automatic? :) | 04:09 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Id be ALL over it | 04:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | depends on your needs and architecture | 04:09 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | That leaves it kind of open. :) | 04:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | some folks want their network gear to do all of the heavy lifting which means vlans/l2... others are fine with openstack handling l3 | 04:10 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I wouldnt mind openstack handling it for me | 04:10 |
| BurnedOutGeek | using OpenvSwitch? | 04:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, and neutron | 04:11 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I was under the impression that wouild need more NICs | 04:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | i havent configured a 3com switch before, but if i understand what you're doing i might be able to make sense of it | 04:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | the compute nodes just need 2 | 04:11 |
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| Sam-I-Am | however, you'll probably want a network node with 3 nics... or multiple network nodes for redundancy/distribution | 04:11 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I have a node that has 4 nics in it, just for that reason | 04:12 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I was also planning to use Mirantis Fuel for ease of deployment. Used that at all? | 04:12 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Unfortunately, I am in such a time crunch, and even hiored a company to do this for me and they couldnt get anything up and running | 04:12 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i havent used that | 04:13 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Where are you located? | 04:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | interesting that y'all chose openstack to replace hyper-v... the two have slightly different functions | 04:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | denver | 04:13 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | Well, teher were actually a few reasons. 1) we havmt actually decided yet... I have used Hyper-V and VMWare, but like what OpenStack has to offer (I think). | 04:14 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Im in Charlotte, NC | 04:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | the big deal with openstack is being able to let tenants more or less do their own thing | 04:15 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | Right. Thats the plan for furture growth | 04:16 |
| BurnedOutGeek | That is IF I can ever get it up and running. :) | 04:17 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Ever nested VMs in OpenStack with KVM? | 04:17 |
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| Sam-I-Am | nested in what sense? running a compute node as a vm? | 04:18 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | No.. having multiple compute nodes that are running ESXi or Windows systems that run VMs in them | 04:19 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | Sam-I-Am: Still here? | 04:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | yup | 04:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | multitasking :) | 04:25 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Interested in doing a little consulting? :) | 04:25 |
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| Sam-I-Am | still trying to figure out your nested vm thing | 04:26 |
| BurnedOutGeek | ahh | 04:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | openstack can managed esxi hosts | 04:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | er, -d | 04:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | but in and of itself, i wouldnt run an openstack compute node as a VM | 04:26 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Yeah.. basically, wehjat I mean is runnign VMs on guest machines that are running on OpenStack. | 04:26 |
| BurnedOutGeek | IN other words, OpenStack is using KVM. I would run a WIndows Server VM on OpenStack and in that Windows machine, I would run a Hyper-V machine. | 04:27 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Make more sense? | 04:27 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | That is, IF I can ever get OpenStack running. hahaha | 04:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | oh, hmm... not sure i'd nest VMs like that | 04:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | somewhere there's a performance hit | 04:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | plus mangement | 04:28 |
| BurnedOutGeek | right | 04:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | bleh, cannot type | 04:28 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I know.. I cant type very well tonight myself | 04:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | so whats openstack not doing now that you configured your switch? | 04:28 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I hjavent gotten the switch configured yet. Thats the problem | 04:28 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Right now, its not doing any VLANs, which I have now been told thats where my problem is | 04:29 |
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| Sam-I-Am | so you configured one or more vlans for your tenants in openstack? | 04:29 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | Yes.. It appears that I need to have a few VLANs creatd | 04:30 |
| BurnedOutGeek | planning on doing that tomorrow | 04:30 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | Can it even be done with no VLANs on the same switch? | 04:30 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well, the convention l2 way assigns vlans to tenants... which also has a limit of 4000 or so VLANs | 04:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | packets from those tenants are tagged on the way out to your switched, and packets coming back in need to be tagged | 04:32 |
| BurnedOutGeek | right.. and I assume thats what OpenvSwitch handles? | 04:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | it can | 04:33 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | hmmm. Its just ALL so confusing | 04:33 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Its really hard to wrap my head around all of the comcepts | 04:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | it is rather complex | 04:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | so here's the deal.. | 04:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | there's typically 2 ways to do networking | 04:34 |
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| Sam-I-Am | one is vlans which uses tagging to determine which packets go to which tenants... your network infrastructure must support those vlans and handle layer 3 (routing) | 04:35 |
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| Sam-I-Am | downsides... limited to about 4000 vlans and tenants usually cant manage their own vlans because you need to do the backend switch/router config | 04:36 |
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| Sam-I-Am | upsides... less l3 gobbly gook running within openstack... i.e., you'll need plenty of linux networking knowledge including iptables | 04:37 |
| BurnedOutGeek | hmmm | 04:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | you can do this with openvswitch too... which isn't much different from the vswitch construct in vmware | 04:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | however, it doesn't have a pretty gui | 04:39 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Just keeps making me wonder if its just too much to tackle | 04:39 |
| BurnedOutGeek | ) | 04:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, i wouldn't suggest going straight to production if you haven't used openstack before | 04:40 |
| BurnedOutGeek | well, I have the environemt that I use now, which can stay up for a bit. I just have to get OpenStack up to ven test it. Havent even been able to get that far yet | 04:40 |
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| Sam-I-Am | if you configured a vlan for a tenant and launched an instance using it, the next thing would involve getting the switch to understand the vlan | 04:42 |
| BurnedOutGeek | have you used any automation tools like JuJu or anything to deploy openstack? | 04:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | nope | 04:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | i dont run a production environment | 04:43 |
| BurnedOutGeek | ok | 04:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | my project is a bit weird | 04:44 |
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| Sam-I-Am | so whats the main reason for going away from hyper-v? | 04:44 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Looooong story, Its a lot to type. hahaha | 04:45 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Mainly, I offer a specialized service that runs on VMs | 04:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, if money isn't an issue, there are commercial openstack solutions out there | 04:45 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I wanted to create a portal to allow users to spin up VMs when needed and detroy them when done | 04:45 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Money is ALWAYS an issue. hahaha | 04:45 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | I could also automate a lot of the tasks with Windows Powershell as well, so it doesnt HAVE to be OpenStack | 04:46 |
| BurnedOutGeek | You do virtualization for work, or is it just a hobby? | 04:46 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well, the ability for tenants to manage their own VMs is pretty much IaaS and the primary feature of openstack | 04:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | and now with virtual networking, tenants can manage their own networks | 04:46 |
| BurnedOutGeek | yeah.. for what Im doing, that wouldnt be required... | 04:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | my project involves getting openstack virtual networking to use sdn-enabled network gear | 04:47 |
| BurnedOutGeek | They just spin up a few VMs, use it for a week or so, and then they go away | 04:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | basically NFV | 04:47 |
| BurnedOutGeek | ahhh | 04:47 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Even the way I do it now in Hyper-V is manual. I start the machines on teh wekend, and then revert to snapshot the next weekend for teh nexct week | 04:48 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Nothing is automated | 04:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | i bashed my head against the wall, desk, floor, etc... for about a month trying to get openstack working with neutron. turns out the docs weren't that good. i finally figured it out and filed a bunch of bugs. one thing led to another, and now i'm contriburing to the install guide. | 04:48 |
| BurnedOutGeek | and almost ALL of my guests are WIndows based. Very little Linux | 04:48 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Yeah. I have to say, I have worked with a lot of OpenSource projects, and the OpenStack documentation is terrible | 04:49 |
| BurnedOutGeek | well, not terrible... just vbery hard to follow | 04:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | the install guide for ubuntu is pretty good now. at least it works. | 04:49 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | does it? | 04:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | next i'm going to try fixing rhel/cent | 04:49 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | Have a link? The onw I saw was pretty rough | 04:50 |
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| Sam-I-Am | http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/install-guide/install/apt/content/ | 04:50 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I assume I still need to configure my hardware switch for VLANs though, right? :) | 04:50 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well, if you're going to use vlans... yeah. | 04:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | perhaps thats your only problem | 04:51 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I couldnt care less if I use them or not. Im only doing it now because I was told I had to | 04:51 |
| BurnedOutGeek | ) | 04:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | is there a reason? | 04:51 |
| BurnedOutGeek | foir the VLANs? | 04:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 04:53 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | I was using a poroduct that said it was required | 04:53 |
| BurnedOutGeek | if I can do this without any VLANs, Im game | 04:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | what sort of network functions do these vms require? | 04:53 |
| BurnedOutGeek | Well, in my biggest scenario.... | 04:54 |
| BurnedOutGeek | 3 VMs get spun up and need their own private network. 2 machines only attach to the private network and the 3rd has a public IP address for public use | 04:54 |
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| Sam-I-Am | so with vlans... one vlan is public, one private? firewalling is handled elsewhere? | 04:55 |
| BurnedOutGeek | yes. No firewalling | 04:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | really? just a wide open windows box? | 04:57 |
| BurnedOutGeek | I have a firewall, its just outside the scope of OpenStack | 04:57 |
| BurnedOutGeek | and liek I said, its only up for a week anyways. Just temporary boxes | 04:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | do you know why this product likes vlans? | 04:58 |
| BurnedOutGeek | not really. Its from Mirantis. They seem to know what they are doing | 04:59 |
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| AMike | hello to all | 05:00 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well, if thats how theyre going to support it... you may have to run vlans | 05:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | might be some stuff going on that doesnt play well at l3 | 05:01 |
| carnaler | see ya guys | 05:01 |
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| AMike | anybody is using VXLAN? | 05:01 |
| BurnedOutGeek | What sucks is that I have a LOT of hardware to build this thing with. Im just at a pass | 05:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | AMike: not yet... but soon. | 05:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | BurnedOutGeek: i think your problem for now might just be the switch thing. have to move past that first. do you do much network stuff? | 05:03 |
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| Sam-I-Am | BurnedOutGeek: what happened with the other guys who were supposed to set things up? | 05:03 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | Well, they screwed around for 2 weeks, wrote a document that was 11 pages long of ALL public information from the net that I had already read and the last page was a price to deploy it. | 05:05 |
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| Sam-I-Am | nice. | 05:06 |
| BurnedOutGeek | They knew that I had a deadline to just get an environment even with 2 modes to test, but they never did it | 05:06 |
| BurnedOutGeek | yeah.. I was pissed | 05:06 |
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| AMike | Sam-I-Am: You are will do use VXLAN in software mode (nova's node will be incapsulate VXLAN information in packets and all hardware switches runs in multicast mode) or "hardware mode" e.g. make VXLAN on our hardware switches thoghout ml2 plugin with driver? | 05:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | AMike: well, my goal is using vxlan on sdn-enabled brocade vdx switches | 05:07 |
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| AMike | Sam-I-Am: Why? Why no software solution? We are also thinking about VXLAN enabled Arista switches. | 05:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | AMike: its just not part of my project | 05:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | however, i may try it | 05:10 |
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| UnnamedUser | ? | 05:13 |
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| BurnedOutGeek | back | 05:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | BurnedOutGeek: still here... | 05:13 |
| BurnedOutGeek | network hiccup I guess | 05:13 |
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| opie05 | is nova-network still supported on havana? I did the same configurations on grizzly which works but on havana it doesnt create the bridge | 05:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | opie05: yes, it is | 05:14 |
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| AMike | Sam-I-Am: yes, I think it's no good idea a making an one multicast domain if you have a lot of hardware. | 05:15 |
| opie05 | Sam-I-Am: know why it works on one version but not the other? | 05:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | AMike: multicast quickly becomes grotesque | 05:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | opie05: could be some sort of configuration change | 05:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | opie05: so its not creating br100 or something? | 05:17 |
| opie05 | yea | 05:17 |
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| opie05 | i tried adding manually but cant even get a ping | 05:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | opie05: is this a new havana install or upgrade from grizzly? | 05:18 |
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| opie05 | new install, i wiped everything | 05:19 |
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| Sam-I-Am | which distro? | 05:20 |
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| opie05 | Sam-I-Am: debian | 05:21 |
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| Sam-I-Am | hmm | 05:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | did you see any errors in the logs when nova-net starts? | 05:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | only thing i can think of is a misconfiguration/typo/oversight of some sort | 05:23 |
| opie05 | when nova tries to execute the rootwrap to create bridege but that fails with an error | 05:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | what error? | 05:24 |
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| opie05 | Sam-I-Am: was trying to execute this "nova-rootwrap /etc/nova/rootwrap.conf ip link add link br100 name vlan100" cant find the part in the logs. but it was along the lines of cant find device br100 | 05:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | does that command work when you create br100 manually and attach a physical interface to it? | 05:30 |
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| opie05 | i ran it manually but then i cant connect to it | 05:31 |
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| Sam-I-Am | hmm | 05:33 |
| opie05 | when i ran it manually i had a new interface vlan@br100 but on grizzly it was vlan@eth0, maybe i should try running the command as "ip link add link eth0 name vlan100" | 05:34 |
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| Sam-I-Am | couldn't hurt | 05:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | did your grizzly install have any config for the bridge under /etc/network/interfaces ? | 05:36 |
| opie05 | yes | 05:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | does this one have it? | 05:37 |
| opie05 | i tried it with and without | 05:37 |
| Sam-I-Am | did you reinstall the OS for this or use the one from grizzly? | 05:38 |
| opie05 | reinstall but i did purge all files everything in /etc, /var/lib/ | 05:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | hmm | 05:40 |
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| opie05 | guess ill fresh install on a vm | 05:40 |
| Sam-I-Am | just seems kind of weird... | 05:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | the tiniest things cause interesting problems | 05:41 |
| opie05 | yes, yes it does | 05:41 |
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| opie05 | when i try the ip link command manually should I start it with nova-rootwrap followed by the conf file and then ip link | 05:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'd just do it as root | 05:42 |
| opie05 | just ip link then? | 05:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | the root wrap files are there so things like nova can obtain root access by themselves | 05:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 05:43 |
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| AMike | Sam-I-Am: you will be use VCS fabric feature in brocade devices? | 05:59 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yes. i already use it. just havent brought on vxlan yet, | 06:00 |
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| ekarlso | koolhead17: around ? | 06:46 |
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| koolhead17 | yes sir ekarlso | 07:15 |
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| giorgis | hi people | 17:46 |
| giorgis | I wonder if someone can help me with the br100 that must be present | 17:46 |
| giorgis | for openstack network | 17:46 |
| giorgis | to work | 17:47 |
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| krish | hey has anyone seen this error while instaling nova-common? | 17:47 |
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| krish | Command failed, please check log for more info 2013-12-27 12:40:29.704 4438 CRITICAL nova [-] <VerNum(83)> 2013-12-27 12:40:29.704 4438 TRACE nova Traceback (most recent call last): 2013-12-27 12:40:29.704 4438 TRACE nova File "/usr/bin/nova-manage", line 10, in <module> 2013-12-27 12:40:29.704 4438 TRACE nova sys.exit(main()) 2013-12-27 12:40:29.704 4438 TRACE nova File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/nova/cmd/manage.py", l | 17:48 |
| cajoel | good day. | 17:48 |
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| cajoel | I am having some trouble with nova-network. I'm following the Ubuntu installation guide, my instances boot, but they do not have a vmnet address. Any guidance? Do I need nova-network on controllers as well as compute nodes? | 18:01 |
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| tclarke | trying to get devstack running. after a file, stack.sh stops with an error 'lib/cinder: "No suitable rootwrap found."' | 18:12 |
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| Sam-I-Am | did you configure the stack user with passwordless sudo access? | 18:13 |
| tclarke | I'm following the devstack.org instructions which simple run stack.sh. The only configuration options I get are to enter some passwords or hit enter to generate random passwords (I generated random for all of them). I'm running as a regular user requiring sudo password but it's cached so sudo isn't currently prompting | 18:15 |
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| tclarke | looks like it's trying to find /usr/bin/oslo-rootwrap which doesn't exist | 18:17 |
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| Sam-I-Am | this might help... http://devstack.org/guides/single-machine.html | 18:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | you need to at least fix the sudo issue | 18:17 |
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| tclarke | did some more digging through logs and it looks like a pip issue...devstack seems to be forcing an install of pip 1.4.1 instead of using the system pip whic is a problem on this system since there's an ssl intercept proxy (which causes newer versions of pip to hard fail) | 18:22 |
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| Sam-I-Am | interesting | 18:26 |
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| tclarke | it's been a known problem with pip 1.4 for a while...the pip dev has finally capitulated and will install a fix but that version isn't out yet | 18:26 |
| tclarke | it was causing oslo.rootwrap to fail installation but the script didn't detect this so it errored when trying to run the rootwrap | 18:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | ah | 18:28 |
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| Dr_Drache | Hello, I'm looking for some information, and my googlefu is lacking. I am trying to sort out the storage options for a cluster. and see which way I should/can go. I currently have a KVM virtulized HA cluster, with NFS and Iscsi storage systems. I just cannot find concise information that tells me which way is better use of limited storage resources. | 19:18 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i dont think there's an exact answer to that | 19:22 |
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| Sam-I-Am | if your instances/vms will work better with block storage, i'd recommend cinder with some sort of backend like iscsi | 19:22 |
| Dr_Drache | Sam-I-Am, I understand that as well, just no concise info to help me decide. | 19:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | otherwise nfs is probably easier to configure and support redundancy/migration | 19:23 |
| Dr_Drache | well, what about the dundancy of a cinder cluster, or am I approching that the wrong way? | 19:24 |
| Dr_Drache | ever part of this seems to be layed out well for me to get the info I need/want | 19:24 |
| Dr_Drache | all but storage. | 19:24 |
| Dr_Drache | lol | 19:24 |
| pix9 | hmm | 19:24 |
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| pix9 | what do you mean by limited storage resources? | 19:25 |
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| Dr_Drache | well, that might have been mis-worded. but I don't or will not have the abilty to have multiple clusters of storage of decent size. | 19:26 |
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| pix9 | limited in terms of available of reliable storage, or you want to control usage of storage by vm's? | 19:27 |
| Dr_Drache | available, I only have lets say, 4 SAN devices, and 2 storage nodes (plus storage avaible on controllers/computes) | 19:28 |
| Dr_Drache | I'm looking at this from the point of view of both, access "speed" and data redunancy | 19:29 |
| pix9 | ok situation is more like you have x unit of storage and want to pack y numbers of instances on it. | 19:29 |
| Dr_Drache | more or less. | 19:29 |
| pix9 | provides you achive best performance :D | 19:29 |
| Dr_Drache | but storage still needs Z databases as well. | 19:29 |
| pix9 | and z is available? | 19:30 |
| pix9 | or pack in same storage? | 19:30 |
| Dr_Drache | same storage, so X units of storage, needs to house Y instances Z databases W fileshare, plus have reduanantcy of some pratical sort | 19:31 |
| Dr_Drache | X-(Y+Z+W)*R | 19:31 |
| pix9 | hmm | 19:31 |
| Dr_Drache | bit of crazy, I agree. | 19:32 |
| pix9 | well let me make one thing clear first, I am going to advice you based on my knowledge and theory. | 19:32 |
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| Dr_Drache | that's fine, it's not stonework. but this is the part that I.. have no pratical direction myself. | 19:33 |
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| pix9 | i se nfs as closest workable | 19:33 |
| pix9 | you can achive easy of deployement | 19:33 |
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| pix9 | and controll usage via quotas | 19:34 |
| pix9 | don't know if that can be applicable | 19:34 |
| pix9 | or how that can be applied in terms of objects | 19:34 |
| pix9 | nfs works well when setting quotas for users | 19:35 |
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| Dr_Drache | well, i'm more intrested in the databases and the instances (VMs) than user files. | 19:35 |
| pix9 | I would chose iscsi in case i am sure that I don't wnat to takeback the space which is alloted once | 19:36 |
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| pix9 | in nfs increasing usage can controlled also you have capablity of shrinking usage without actully disturbing filesystems and partitions, less chances of losing data when shrinking quota limits | 19:37 |
| Dr_Drache | that makes sense. | 19:38 |
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| pix9 | that's the flexiblity with nfs | 19:38 |
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| Dr_Drache | how would in your suggestion, I deploy the NFS? | 19:38 |
| pix9 | so my qcow2 images on vm's can sit on nfs store | 19:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats kind of why i like nfs | 19:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | block has improved a lot with openstack/cinder, but i think nfs is still more flexible | 19:39 |
| Dr_Drache | what about redunadcy? (spelling sorry) | 19:39 |
| pix9 | but will it hit vm's performance is something that you have to test | 19:39 |
| pix9 | one big partition can be created out of raid | 19:39 |
| Dr_Drache | all my VMs (55 as of this morning) are running from a single NFS unbuntu box | 19:39 |
| pix9 | now you have to do magic of setting quotas on it | 19:39 |
| pix9 | or you can created diffrent folders and group vms | 19:40 |
| pix9 | based on difffrent volumes | 19:40 |
| pix9 | wow | 19:41 |
| Dr_Drache | right, hmm. so, how would I worry about HA of the data? | 19:41 |
| pix9 | hmm let me think | 19:41 |
| Dr_Drache | part of my cluster is off site. (1gbs link, but still phyiscally offsite) | 19:42 |
| pix9 | nfs will be running on ? | 19:42 |
| pix9 | cluster or seperate machine | 19:42 |
| pix9 | ohh here comes iscsi in putture | 19:42 |
| pix9 | focus | 19:42 |
| pix9 | whatever | 19:42 |
| pix9 | now iscsi allows you multipathing | 19:43 |
| pix9 | achiving HA with iscsi can be achived easily | 19:43 |
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| pix9 | other option would be using swift | 19:43 |
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| Dr_Drache | swift all my storage togeather.. | 19:44 |
| pix9 | but it supports object store | 19:44 |
| pix9 | and i am still noob about that service | 19:44 |
| Dr_Drache | same | 19:44 |
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| notmyname | swift is great for highly durable and available data, but it's not good for databases or mounted filesystems | 19:44 |
| pix9 | yeah | 19:44 |
| Dr_Drache | notmyname, thanks for that. | 19:44 |
| pix9 | that's what i was told in training | 19:45 |
| Dr_Drache | so, swift for instances, and my SANS for databases? | 19:45 |
| pix9 | but I still don't have clear picture about it. | 19:45 |
| pix9 | nop swift is good for objects | 19:45 |
| notmyname | swift is where you point your apps when you want to give them access to a pool of "unlimited" storage that's simple to use, highly available, and supports high concurrency | 19:45 |
| pix9 | that means static files | 19:45 |
| Dr_Drache | ahhhh, ok | 19:46 |
| pix9 | instances will have variable files | 19:46 |
| Dr_Drache | see this is what I need. | 19:46 |
| Dr_Drache | so, more or less, object storage, no-go in the way i've layed this out | 19:46 |
| pix9 | where there will be changines in data of file | 19:46 |
| notmyname | so just like a "cloud-ready" (forgive the marketing phrase) app can make use of whatever compute is available, on demand, without thinking about it, swift is the storage solution for apps that need the same thing from storage | 19:47 |
| pix9 | yes forget swift | 19:47 |
| Dr_Drache | notmyname, the phrases are fine. | 19:47 |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:47 |
| Dr_Drache | the information is the same in the end. | 19:47 |
| Dr_Drache | :P | 19:47 |
| pix9 | yes we can comprehend what you want to say | 19:47 |
| Dr_Drache | so, notmyname, what i said before... but with cinder. | 19:48 |
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| notmyname | Dr_Drache: you're right, it doesn't sound like swift is what you are looking for since it's not designed for databases or attached mountpoints | 19:48 |
| pix9 | now I am wondering how can you manage HA with storage :-? | 19:48 |
| pix9 | iscsi is good for HA but not flexible storage | 19:48 |
| pix9 | you have to mess with filesystem and partitioning in iscsi | 19:48 |
| Dr_Drache | i can keep my databases stuck to th iscsi's | 19:48 |
| pix9 | yes | 19:48 |
| Dr_Drache | that's fine with me (have 2 phyisical devices, that are HA themselves) | 19:49 |
| Dr_Drache | so, instances. | 19:49 |
| pix9 | for vm's deploy nfs | 19:49 |
| notmyname | pix9: Dr_Drache: good overview of swift is at http://swiftstack.com/openstack-swift/architecture/ | 19:49 |
| pix9 | thanks @notmyname | 19:49 |
| Dr_Drache | pix9, but I'd like replication of the vm changes to another storage device | 19:50 |
| Dr_Drache | say the main NFS dies. | 19:50 |
| pix9 | ok | 19:50 |
| Dr_Drache | I'd like not to lose more than a few min of the data. | 19:50 |
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| pix9 | well are the vms fresh vms | 19:51 |
| Dr_Drache | I guess that's my misunderstanding. | 19:51 |
| pix9 | or they have been there before this requirement hit you. | 19:51 |
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| Dr_Drache | they were there, some as P2V | 19:52 |
| Dr_Drache | are | 19:52 |
| Dr_Drache | they will be migrtated to a OS | 19:52 |
| pix9 | wow | 19:52 |
| Dr_Drache | some are slated to be deleted and remade... but, yea | 19:53 |
| pix9 | where is your nfs running? | 19:53 |
| Dr_Drache | on a 2U ubuntu box | 19:53 |
| pix9 | and storage ifor nfs on it is coming from? | 19:53 |
| Dr_Drache | DAS | 19:53 |
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| pix9 | you your problem is if that ubuntu box dies what's next? | 19:54 |
| Dr_Drache | IIRC raid-5 14 drives SAS 15K | 19:54 |
| Dr_Drache | right, right now, we restore from backup to another NFS. | 19:54 |
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| pix9 | well you can go with 2 node cluster for nfs :D | 19:55 |
| pix9 | if you have extra node | 19:55 |
| Dr_Drache | didn't know NFS works like that | 19:55 |
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| pix9 | yes nfs can be configured like that | 19:55 |
| pix9 | it will get mounted on other node | 19:56 |
| Dr_Drache | so, I have X NFS HA nodes. | 19:56 |
| Dr_Drache | i unplug one. | 19:56 |
| Dr_Drache | phyiscally | 19:56 |
| pix9 | yes it would get mounted on other | 19:56 |
| Dr_Drache | k. | 19:56 |
| Dr_Drache | makes sense, need to look into that. | 19:57 |
| Dr_Drache | I don't know why I don't know that. | 19:57 |
| pix9 | i've tried on ha cluster of vm's | 19:57 |
| pix9 | I am so want to work at your place :D | 19:57 |
| Dr_Drache | :P we are going full tilt into this once I become not an idiot. | 19:57 |
| pix9 | lol | 19:58 |
| Dr_Drache | now, what about data syncronization between the HA NFS? | 19:58 |
| pix9 | huh? | 19:58 |
| pix9 | data in not on the nodes rite? | 19:58 |
| pix9 | storage is DAS | 19:59 |
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| Dr_Drache | storage is DAS on the NFS | 19:59 |
| pix9 | ok noob question | 19:59 |
| pix9 | is DAS something like san? | 19:59 |
| Dr_Drache | Direct Attached Storage | 19:59 |
| pix9 | wow | 19:59 |
| Dr_Drache | local drives. | 19:59 |
| pix9 | sorry | 19:59 |
| Dr_Drache | stupid terms, I am sorry. | 19:59 |
| pix9 | sorry I am just a trainer teaching noob rhce cources etc | 20:00 |
| pix9 | so no actual exp :-( | 20:00 |
| pix9 | but | 20:00 |
| pix9 | btw let me think about how to work with DAS | 20:00 |
| pix9 | well there is way | 20:00 |
| pix9 | DRBD | 20:01 |
| Dr_Drache | gluster? | 20:01 |
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| Dr_Drache | last time I took rhce, it was the first year :P | 20:01 |
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| pix9 | DRBD will work | 20:01 |
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| pix9 | but for gluster I don't have much knowledge about gluster | 20:01 |
| pix9 | gluster is used for scalable storage | 20:02 |
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| pix9 | it also gives redundency | 20:02 |
| pix9 | but I am not sure if it is designed for HA designe of small number like 2 nodes | 20:03 |
| pix9 | it works with multiple replicas | 20:03 |
| pix9 | of same storage | 20:03 |
| Dr_Drache | well, my # is small, because a test budget is small | 20:03 |
| Staples84 | Dr_Drache, with your DAS, is it a single DAS shared between your two NFS servers or is there one for each? | 20:04 |
| Dr_Drache | Staples84, each one has it's own array. | 20:04 |
| pix9 | DRBD is depreciated but it works in testing environment | 20:04 |
| Staples84 | Dr_Drache, ah, in that case DRDB as well as Gluster would work | 20:04 |
| Staples84 | you could use Gluster in a replicated volume setup instead of distributed | 20:05 |
| pix9 | ahh | 20:05 |
| Dr_Drache | ahh, makes sense. | 20:05 |
| Staples84 | that way you'd have 2 copies, one local copy on each nfs server | 20:05 |
| pix9 | *feels like noob* :P | 20:05 |
| Dr_Drache | is that a real time replication Staples84? | 20:06 |
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| Dr_Drache | pix9, then, how do you think i feel, coming here :P | 20:06 |
| Staples84 | Dr_Drache, thats a big debate from what I hear.. its not syncronous like a replicated san would be, there is a slight delay in replication, but that delay depends on how you set it up. | 20:07 |
| pix9 | well @Dr_Drache atleast you have that holy servers and environment accessble :P | 20:07 |
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| Dr_Drache | pix9, true, and I'll be ordering more soon. LOL | 20:07 |
| pix9 | wow | 20:07 |
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| pix9 | keep me as your assistance :D | 20:07 |
| pix9 | how good is DRBD in production Staples84 | 20:08 |
| Dr_Drache | Staples84, so, for the replication, each node needs to be the same size? | 20:08 |
| pix9 | yes | 20:08 |
| Staples84 | Dr_Drache, have a look at this. I wrote an end to end how to on doing exactly what you're trying to do. https://www.dalemacartney.com/2012/09/14/deploying-a-replicated-nas-solution-using-red-hat-storage-server-2-0/ | 20:08 |
| pix9 | storage atleeast | 20:08 |
| Staples84 | Dr_Drache, yes thats correct | 20:08 |
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| Dr_Drache | just want to make sure my brain is going in the right direction | 20:09 |
| Staples84 | pix9, I've never used DRDB in a production environment as its not supported by Red Hat. (not in official RHEL), however I know many large companies use it to back their virtualization platforms so it can't be that bad! | 20:10 |
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| pix9 | thanks | 20:11 |
| Dr_Drache | Staples84, reading this, could i just have xxGB "drives" on each node, then I could have multple clusters? | 20:11 |
| Staples84 | Dr_Drache, each disk (physical partition or lvm, or DAS array) can be used as a brick on each gluster server. | 20:12 |
| Dr_Drache | that is sweet | 20:13 |
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| Staples84 | then you join a brick(s) from multiple servers together into one replicated or distrubuted volume | 20:13 |
| Dr_Drache | then i could NFS that. | 20:13 |
| pix9 | cool | 20:13 |
| Dr_Drache | if that's the direction I need/want | 20:13 |
| Staples84 | also, its worth noting, if you use the native gluster client instead of NFS, you have auto failover as well. | 20:13 |
| Dr_Drache | does Openstack have a native client? | 20:13 |
| Staples84 | e.g mount server1:/vol1 (which is replcated to server2), then power off server1, and IO will continue with no intervention from Server2 | 20:14 |
| Staples84 | Dr_Drache, my understanding is OpenStack has supported gluster for a little while now | 20:14 |
| Dr_Drache | Staples84, good good. | 20:14 |
| Staples84 | so i would assume the native client | 20:14 |
| Dr_Drache | Staples84, thank you alot for that info and your blog post. | 20:15 |
| Staples84 | Dr_Drache, happy to help. | 20:15 |
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| Dr_Drache | Staples84, I seem to have another question | 20:23 |
| Dr_Drache | I've used OCFS2 in the past (*years*) | 20:23 |
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| Dr_Drache | it had the issue with "pausing" under IO | 20:24 |
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| Dr_Drache | causing all kinds of issues | 20:24 |
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| Dr_Drache | do yo know how well VMs run from a gluster? | 20:25 |
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| Ryan_Lane | Dr_Drache: in my experience poorly | 20:26 |
| Ryan_Lane | but I haven't used in in quite a number of releases | 20:27 |
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| Dr_Drache | Ryan_Lane, looks like I am in a very hard place it seems | 20:27 |
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| pix9 | lol | 20:31 |
| pix9 | i was disconnected back then | 20:32 |
| Dr_Drache | pix9, i saw | 20:32 |
| pix9 | and I was babeling on offline windows like any thing :P | 20:32 |
| Dr_Drache | and i'm stuck again | 20:32 |
| pix9 | your last question was does openstack gives native gluster or something | 20:33 |
| pix9 | openstack would just give you api or plugin as far as my understanding | 20:33 |
| pix9 | well where are you stucked? | 20:33 |
| Dr_Drache | well | 20:33 |
| Dr_Drache | would gluster be good for VM's | 20:33 |
| Dr_Drache | and I was told it used to be poor at that. | 20:34 |
| pix9 | good in what sense? | 20:34 |
| Dr_Drache | running VMs from gluster storage. | 20:34 |
| pix9 | hmm | 20:34 |
| Dr_Drache | using that as my Qcow2 storage basiclly. | 20:34 |
| Dr_Drache | and that in the past I've used OCFS2 and it had issues with "pauses" | 20:35 |
| pix9 | hmm I've skipped my training on storage so don't know much about gluster :P | 20:35 |
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| Dr_Drache | go get it | 20:37 |
| Dr_Drache | and report back | 20:37 |
| pix9 | lol | 20:37 |
| pix9 | that's going to be after 1 month or so :P | 20:37 |
| Dr_Drache | not tomarrow? | 20:37 |
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| pix9 | lol it's redhat's training | 20:38 |
| Dr_Drache | yea | 20:38 |
| pix9 | i managed just for openstack | 20:38 |
| Staples84 | Dr_Drache, sorry, back now, let me catch on the thread | 20:39 |
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| pix9 | any ways | 20:39 |
| pix9 | I am off | 20:39 |
| pix9 | have to go to office tomorrow | 20:39 |
| pix9 | have nice time all of you | 20:39 |
| Dr_Drache | Staples84, all good, just trying to sort this out. | 20:39 |
| pix9 | thanks a lots for sharing your problems and knowledge with me :D | 20:40 |
| Staples84 | right, so no i haven't used gluster to back a VM volume as I personally do't trust any method which could give you an IO wait situation | 20:40 |
| pix9 | agreed | 20:41 |
| Staples84 | i have ONLY ever experienced IO wait with gluster when a physical gluster server is lost or powered off, as it needs to negotiate moving those active connections to one of the other active nodes hosting the volume. | 20:41 |
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| Staples84 | however, its important to remember, NFS (instead of native client) has no failover... | 20:42 |
| Staples84 | it would be a case of mount one server, and if it goes down, you manually recover by remounting the other server. | 20:42 |
| Staples84 | with the gluster client it would handle all that for you, however if you're running gluster to back VM's, your servers disk IO will hang until that negotiation is complete | 20:42 |
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| Staples84 | normally a couple of seconds from what I have seen | 20:43 |
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| xxiao | aki/ari etc are also x86 only | 23:40 |
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