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| pithagorians | hi all. is it possible to have working both xen and kvm at the same time ? | 09:01 |
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| pithagorians | and also hyperv :) | 09:11 |
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| uvirtbot` | New bug: #1093248 in keystone "Domain role grants need to be honored in token authentication" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093248 | 10:01 |
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| alex88 | koolhead17, o/ | 11:13 |
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| koolhead17 | alex88, hey there | 11:13 |
| alex88 | koolhead17, I need a new domain :( | 11:14 |
| koolhead17 | alex88, Ooh. Is that already taken :( | 11:14 |
| alex88 | that domain scam auto registered it | 11:14 |
| alex88 | need to find a new name :) | 11:15 |
| koolhead17 | yeah | 11:15 |
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| koolhead17 | and share it with us all :D | 11:15 |
| alex88 | sure, need to update openstack planet links too | 11:16 |
| koolhead17 | alex88, true. | 11:16 |
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| jeremyb | ywu: fix your connection | 20:34 |
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| thomaschaaf | If I upload a file to swift via curl how it the upload done? a) I upload the file to the proxy and that buffers the file and then sends it to the storage servers b) the proxy accepts the file from me and sends every byte it receives to ONE zone and then sends me the 201 code and replicates afterwards or c) the proxy accepts the file and sends it to three random zones and returns the 201 once it has sent the file to all servers | 21:01 |
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| jeremyb | ywu: ping | 21:06 |
| jeremyb | ywu: ping | 21:06 |
| jeremyb | ywu: ping | 21:06 |
| jeremyb | ywu: ping | 21:06 |
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| jeremyb | grrr | 21:06 |
| jeremyb | thomaschaaf: idk exactly how it works but it's certainly not random | 21:06 |
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| jeremyb | ywu: ping | 21:07 |
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| * jeremyb gives up | 21:07 | |
| thomaschaaf | jeremyb: I don't currently understand how the internal processes work in swift so that I can understand how to setup the system | 21:07 |
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| thomaschaaf | I have 3 servers with 2 drives each and have made 6 "zones" so that data can be replicated on 3 different drives. | 21:08 |
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| thomaschaaf | Turning off one of the servers does nothing to the data being stored.. | 21:09 |
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| thomaschaaf | the files are still only on the two original servers even if the server is turned off for a while | 21:09 |
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| jeremyb | ugh, wtf | 21:12 |
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| jeremyb | there's a NASA thing called swift that's unrelated to openstack and has higher google ranking than openstack's swift???! ;( | 21:13 |
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| jeremyb | thomaschaaf: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/swift/admin_guide.html#handling-drive-failure | 21:14 |
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| thomaschaaf | what does unmounted mean? the device is turned off | 21:15 |
| jeremyb | well that's about drive failure | 21:15 |
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| jeremyb | the immediate next section is server failure | 21:15 |
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| thomaschaaf | There seems to be a lot of manual work for device failures :( do you know if this will get more automatic in the near future? | 21:17 |
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| jeremyb | thomaschaaf: well you should probably have only 3 zones (one per machine). but otherwise writes and reads should be working fine with the node down. and things will propagate on their own when it comes back up. if you know it's going to be more than a few hours (which i think can't be determined automatically) then do something manual. it doesn't have to be a lot of work... can just be click a button. ring operations can be scripted | 21:20 |
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| thomaschaaf | I am having trouble that my machines are located around germany and writes are taking very long. I don't know if this is because the http request waits for all copies to be written | 21:22 |
| thomaschaaf | 18 M -> 18 seconds | 21:22 |
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| jeremyb | you probably should have all machines in a cluster near eachother and for geographic redundancy then use separate, isolated clusters | 21:23 |
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| jeremyb | thomaschaaf: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=operations/software.git;a=history;f=swiftrepl/swiftrepl.py;h=af0fb6d3366d9d5e1dc4fef4ffd1b7ffdf2817de;hb=5c28b3e5dd13f36d21c92df4b9b5ed20ca2bc115 | 21:24 |
| tightwork | Hi. Is there any function I can package up instances in groups or 'vapps' ? Only thing I can think of atm is just integrate chef recipes | 21:24 |
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| notmyname | thomaschaaf: still here? | 21:32 |
| thomaschaaf | notmyname: yes | 21:33 |
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| jeremyb | notmyname: isn't there some header to use on the POST/PUT to tell it whether to block on multiple confirmations or not? | 21:33 |
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| * jeremyb is finding the docs lacking ;( | 21:33 | |
| notmyname | thomaschaaf: you can find a ton of info on how swift works at http://swiftstack.com/openstack-swift/. specifically, a bunch of your questions are answered in http://swiftstack.com/blog/2012/09/13/how-openstack-swift-handles-hardware-failures/ | 21:33 |
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| notmyname | jeremyb: PUTs will only return success when a quorum of <replica count> storage nodes have returned success (and the storage nodes only return success after the data is flushed to disk) | 21:34 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: how do i edit http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-object-storage/1.0/content/additional-resources-object-devguide.html ? have to talk to annegentle ? | 21:34 |
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| notmyname | jeremyb: so in the case of 3 replicas, 2 must succeed for any write (PUT, POST, DELETE) before the client gets a success return code | 21:35 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: i thought the client could include a header saying 1 node is enough? or something? or i'm imagining it | 21:35 |
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| tightwork | How do qcow2 snapshots work? Do they suffer the same IO problem as vmdk in vmware does? | 21:35 |
| tightwork | multi level snapshots | 21:35 |
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| tightwork | if so...how much, not as much.. same, worse? | 21:35 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: not on PUTs. there is an "X-Newest: true" for reads (GET, HEAD) that will query all primary replicas an return the newest | 21:35 |
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| jeremyb | ahhhhh | 21:36 |
| jeremyb | k | 21:36 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: also, 23 21:13:10 < jeremyb> there's a NASA thing called swift that's unrelated to openstack and has higher google ranking than openstack's swift???! ;( | 21:36 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: link? | 21:36 |
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| notmyname | or screenshot? | 21:36 |
| jeremyb | http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/swift/main/index.html | 21:36 |
| thomaschaaf | notmyname: thank you I will read through the swifttack.com stuff. | 21:36 |
| jeremyb | https://www.google.com/search?q=swift | 21:37 |
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| thomaschaaf | Another problem I am currently having is the fact that rsync doesn't have a password. That way I have to use the VPN to connect all machines and all traffic is routed through a computer in a different datacenter :( | 21:38 |
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| jeremyb | notmyname: btw, did you see my swiftrepl link above? maybe that would interest you | 21:38 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: when I choose the global results, swift.openstack.org is number 5 (personalized it's 3). after swift.com, swifttrans.com, and 2 wikipedia articles | 21:38 |
| notmyname | no | 21:38 |
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| jeremyb | 23 21:24:42 < jeremyb> thomaschaaf: | 21:38 |
| jeremyb | https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=operations/software.git;a=history;f=swiftrepl/swiftrepl.py;h=af0fb6d3366d9d5e1dc4fef4ffd1b7ffdf2817de;hb=5c28b3e5dd13f36d21c92df4b9b5ed20ca2bc115 | 21:38 |
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| * jeremyb goes to read some of those swiftstack links | 21:38 | |
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| thomaschaaf | jeremyb: is there any documentation on this? | 21:39 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: ah. is that for FL->VA? | 21:39 |
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| jeremyb | notmyname: something like that i guess | 21:39 |
| jeremyb | thomaschaaf: swiftrepl? | 21:40 |
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| notmyname | jeremyb: I've been working with faidon (paravoid) about things along those lines | 21:40 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: ahh. that must be some interesting timezone fun ;-) | 21:40 |
| thomaschaaf | Yes. The thing is does this work with our minimal 3 server setup? (Hope to grow soon but have to get started somehow :) ) | 21:40 |
| notmyname | heh | 21:40 |
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| notmyname | thomaschaaf: I kinda glanced over it, but I think your concept of "zone" is a little off | 21:41 |
| thomaschaaf | Well I wanted to have 3 replicas of a file. | 21:41 |
| notmyname | thomaschaaf: you can have 3 replicas. that has nothing to do with how many zones you have | 21:42 |
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| notmyname | thomaschaaf: swift will place all of your replicas "as uniquely as possible" in the cluster. this means that if you have 3 replicas and 3+ zones, you'll have 1 replica in each zone. but if you only have 1 zone, then all 3 replicas will be there, but on different servers. and if you only have 1 server, the replicas will be on different drives | 21:43 |
| thomaschaaf | notmyname: this is my setup right now: http://pastie.org/5569936 | 21:43 |
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| jeremyb | notmyname: but you can't inform swift about racks, right? | 21:43 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: that's where zones come in. a zone can be whatever the deployer wants it to be (eg racks, rows, dc rooms, etc) | 21:44 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: yeah... i guess the point is you can't nest zones in zones | 21:44 |
| notmyname | the idea is that zones should be as isolated as possible. so if power or network goes out in one zone, it should be unlikely to affect another zone | 21:44 |
| notmyname | correct | 21:45 |
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| jeremyb | so it knows about 2 levels of hierarchy | 21:45 |
| zykes- | anyone here running "Salt" the tool ? | 21:45 |
| notmyname | but we are working on regions above zones. and we'll support the regions having different net constraints (ie high latency or low bandwidth) | 21:45 |
| notmyname | the plan is region->zone->server->disk | 21:46 |
| notmyname | zykes-: I talked to the guy behind it at pycon last year. seemed like an interesting tool :-) | 21:46 |
| jeremyb | zykes-: it's related to openstack? | 21:47 |
| notmyname | thomaschaaf: so you've got 6 drives in 3 servers. depending on how those servers are deployed, you either have 1, 2, or 3 zones | 21:47 |
| thomaschaaf | notmyname: so you are suggentsting that eventhough they are actually more of regions right now I should all switch them to one zone? | 21:47 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: no. it's a python version of puppet/chef/etc | 21:47 |
| zykes- | yy | 21:47 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: i know. i was wondering why he was asking here | 21:47 |
| zykes- | just wondering if anyone here using it in production :) | 21:48 |
| jeremyb | thomaschaaf: IMO it should be 1 zone per datacenter (and i'm assuming 1 box per DC) | 21:48 |
| thomaschaaf | notmyname: Server a and b are right next to each other but only connected via vpn or through public nic which is running in the office, server c is running in the office. Bottle neck for a <-> b is the vpn as the data goes from the datacenter to the office and back. | 21:49 |
| jeremyb | zykes-: okey | 21:49 |
| thomaschaaf | server c should be an offsite storage kind of thing. | 21:49 |
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| notmyname | thomaschaaf: I keep trying to type an answer, but it always comes down to "it all depends on your use case" ;-) | 21:51 |
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| thomaschaaf | notmyname: :( I would love to provide any information you need I can draw you something in paint if you like :P | 21:51 |
| notmyname | heh. no need for that :-) | 21:52 |
| thomaschaaf | what would you suggest to connect the two machines which are next to each (within 50feet) other? | 21:53 |
| notmyname | thomaschaaf: basically, on reads swift chooses one of the primary replicas (at random). if this is a "remote-er" copy, then your client latency will suffer. also, replication is chatty and will go as fast as possible between all of the nodes. this may cause a problem if you have other network constraints on the link (eg if it's a separately metered WAN link). these are 2 examples of how swift currently doesn't handle regions very well | 21:53 |
| thomaschaaf | maybe 500 ft | 21:53 |
| notmyname | and in all of these cases, I mean "remote" as in "on the other side of the continent/ocean" or some other constraint on the link (like higher cost) | 21:54 |
| thomaschaaf | bascially I am trying to build the most complicated setup, which obviously is hard to replicate in software | 21:55 |
| notmyname | thomaschaaf: as a worse-case to see what happens? or because you need to make things complicated? | 21:56 |
| notmyname | IOW, why? ;-) | 21:56 |
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| thomaschaaf | So our main datacenter is called hetzner. The are really cheap and have great servers. As I said we currently have 2 there and are planing to buy more as more data comes in. But I also want every file stored at our office if something happens. Maybe the company goes bankrupt and all the servers are turned off remotely. Thats why I want an offsite copy. In our office we have 100 Mbits so its enough bandwidth to have the offsite | 21:58 |
| thomaschaaf | Because the hetzner servers don't have a private nic I have to connect them though openvpn. The openvpn is setup in the office so that from within the office network we can ssh into the boxes as if it were local. Or do the same from remote. That way we can close all ports except 80 and 443 on the public nics | 22:00 |
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| thomaschaaf | notmyname: forgot to mention | 22:03 |
| notmyname | just catching up :-) | 22:03 |
| notmyname | so my first guess would be that you've got 2 zones. now here's the trick: your zones should be pretty close to the same size | 22:03 |
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| notmyname | thomaschaaf: but that goes along with what you said earlier about wanting to have a copy in each place | 22:06 |
| * jeremyb still really wishes there were a way to do something like WORM | 22:06 | |
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| jeremyb | or at least to have the ability to allow a user to write to new objects but not modifiy existing objects | 22:07 |
| notmyname | thomaschaaf: ultimately, I think the regions feature that we're working on will solve that for you (2 regions, N zones in each region). but it's not too helpful for me to say "ya, what you need is something that will land in a month or 2" | 22:07 |
| thomaschaaf | that soon in stable? | 22:07 |
| tightwork | oh what a surprise error when creating volume | 22:08 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: swift supports versioned writes on a per-container basis. so you overwrite a file and the existing data is copied to another location as an older version | 22:08 |
| jeremyb | yeah, when will that actually be released? | 22:08 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: ooooooooh, since when? | 22:08 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/swift/overview_object_versioning.html | 22:08 |
| thomaschaaf | is there anyway to get the rsync stuff to go over the public nic instead of over the vpn? Thinking about setting up another openvpn in the datacenter and connect that to the one in the office | 22:09 |
| notmyname | global clusters is being worked on now, and it will be released when it's done | 22:09 |
| notmyname | thomaschaaf: one of the parts of global clusters is being able to have a separate replication network. that will be useful outside of global clusters, but it's also essential for global clusters | 22:10 |
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| notmyname | thomaschaaf: there's a company that is working on the separate replication network feature right now, and I hope to see their initial patch shortly after the new year | 22:11 |
| thomaschaaf | And that would mean the public nic is used? Awesome that a couple companies work together on this :) | 22:12 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: so, deletes are still possible on versioned objects and metadata is unversioned | 22:12 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: correct(-ish). deletes are not part of the versions (think of writes as a stack push and a delete as a stack pop). updating metadata on existing objects is not a new version, but since the metadata is stored with the object, each version can have their own unique metadata | 22:13 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: right... but a rogue client can still delete objects | 22:14 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: yes. but that's no different that any other case. if someone has your credentials, they can do whatever you can do in your account | 22:15 |
| jeremyb | right | 22:16 |
| jeremyb | 23 22:07:18 < jeremyb> or at least to have the ability to allow a user to write to new objects but not modifiy existing objects | 22:16 |
| notmyname | jeremyb: a combination of versioned writes and an auth system that can allow writes but not deletes would solve that, I think. (sort of) | 22:17 |
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| notmyname | I'm not sure how you'd prevent a PUT without having to do a HEAD for every single PUT that comes in and only then allow/deny it | 22:18 |
| notmyname | perhaps some if-match magic. I'm not sure | 22:18 |
| * jeremyb wonders about that auth system. it's been maybe 2 years since i seriously investigated this (and discussed with gholt a bunch) | 22:18 | |
| notmyname | but in that case you'd be trusting your client to be good | 22:18 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: and would that be racy? | 22:19 |
| thomaschaaf | notmyname: jeremyb: I am going to head off to bed. I hope you both have a wonderful christmas :) Thank you for your time! | 22:19 |
| notmyname | perhaps. I've now thought about it for a total of about 30 seconds ;-) | 22:19 |
| notmyname | thomaschaaf: same to you :- | 22:19 |
| notmyname | 0 | 22:19 |
| jeremyb | thomaschaaf: let us know what you do/how you fare | 22:19 |
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| notmyname | jeremyb: when I get back to the office on wednesday, I think I'll be working on a better swiftstack auth system. this is something to keep in mind :-) | 22:20 |
| jeremyb | cool :) | 22:21 |
| jeremyb | > The running joke is that there are a lot of people name ‘Hiring’ at this conference. | 22:22 |
| jeremyb | s/name/named/ ? | 22:22 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: ^ | 22:22 |
| jeremyb | http://swiftstack.com/blog/2012/10/18/openstack-is-hiring/ | 22:23 |
| notmyname | of course :-) | 22:23 |
| jeremyb | could you propagate it for me? :) | 22:23 |
| notmyname | how do you mean? you looking for a change? ;-) | 22:24 |
| jeremyb | notmyname: i meant s/name/named/ | 22:25 |
| notmyname | ah, ok. got it. typo in the blog post | 22:26 |
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| jeremyb | right ;) | 22:27 |
| jeremyb | leifmadsen: that's quite a mask you're wearing | 22:27 |
| leifmadsen | indeed it is :) | 22:27 |
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| notmyname | jeremyb: fixed | 22:33 |
| notmyname | thanks | 22:33 |
| notmyname | gotta run. Christmas cookies are being made. I think a tasting is in order... | 22:34 |
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| jeremyb | could you serialize some for me? | 22:34 |
| jeremyb | bon appetit | 22:35 |
| notmyname | response: 400 Get Your Own Cookies | 22:35 |
| notmyname | ;-) | 22:35 |
| jeremyb | ouch | 22:35 |
| notmyname | cookies are serious business :-) | 22:35 |
| jeremyb | 23 21:34:40 < jeremyb> notmyname: how do i edit http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-object-storage/1.0/content/additional-resources-object-devguide.html ? have to talk to annegentle ? | 22:36 |
| notmyname | I'd guess there is a VCS instance of some kind for that system. but ya, I'd talk to annegentle | 22:37 |
| jeremyb | k | 22:37 |
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| douardda | hi | 23:57 |
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| douardda | are there any glance devs out there? | 23:57 |
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| douardda | I am looking a the glance/store/filesystem.py and I am quite surprise there is no attempt to write sparse file in the Store.add method | 23:59 |
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| douardda | are there good reasons not to have such a "feature" besides "nobody asked for it till now" | 23:59 |
| douardda | ? | 23:59 |
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