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| uvirtbot | New bug: #789727 in nova "test_libvirt: cleanup instances_path dir" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789727 | 01:22 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #789741 in nova "fix instance rebuilds (compute manager and metadata)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789741 | 03:31 |
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| uvirtbot | New bug: #789755 in nova "OSAPI: v1.1 /servers resize action with flavorRef" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789755 | 04:11 |
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| Razique | Hi all! | 08:29 |
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| ziyadb | so you guys use a SAN for block storage w/ nova? | 12:46 |
| ziyadb | where can I read up on that? | 12:46 |
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| ziyadb | i presume swift uses a SAN for object storage as well? | 13:00 |
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| dsockwell | ziyadb: i've got a fibre channel setup i'm trying out today, i'll keep you posted if you want? | 13:08 |
| dsockwell | not quite sure what i'm going to do about it | 13:08 |
| ziyadb | dsockwell yea, I'm a network guy, I want to know what kind of infrastructure i need to build to support swift and nova storage. | 13:09 |
| dsockwell | i must be upfront, i haven't actually gotten to the installing-openstack part on my setup | 13:10 |
| dsockwell | but from poking through the code it seems to be set up for iscsi | 13:10 |
| dsockwell | and from what I read about swift, it's supposed to be a clustered storage system; many machines with their own DAS that make up the service | 13:11 |
| dsockwell | could be kludged with a san if you want, but if you are building out infrastructure from scratch you will probably want to do ethernet and not fc | 13:11 |
| dsockwell | of course i could be completely wrong | 13:12 |
| ziyadb | why hasn't anyone written a book about this? | 13:12 |
| dsockwell | docs.openstack.org | 13:12 |
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| ziyadb | dsockwell not bad. but most of it is speaking from an implementation perspective, not the infrastructure required to support it. that's what im looking for. | 13:24 |
| dsockwell | yeah, it doesn't say much other than 1000BaseTX or faster is recommended | 13:27 |
| ziyadb | you know what | 13:27 |
| ziyadb | i'll write a damned "building cloud infrastructure" book. | 13:27 |
| ziyadb | just as soon as I figure it out | 13:28 |
| dsockwell | heh | 13:28 |
| dsockwell | so really you've got your image storage service, your block storage (swift), and your compute nodes | 13:28 |
| dsockwell | wait, is swift block storage or objects? | 13:29 |
| dsockwell | :( looks like i need to do this for myself too | 13:29 |
| ziyadb | heh, swift is object storage | 13:30 |
| ziyadb | so you cant use swift as block storage for nova | 13:30 |
| dsockwell | right | 13:30 |
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| dsockwell | anyway, good luck, sorry i'm not more help | 13:35 |
| ziyadb | heh thanks, let me know how your build turns out | 13:36 |
| dsockwell | all right. i'm planning on throwing it on a wiki, so i'll link it here when it's got substance. | 13:37 |
| ziyadb | even if not much substance :) anything helps at this point. | 13:39 |
| dsockwell | all right. the plan now is to base everything off a SAN, with the nova machines booting from LUNs on my openindiana box. | 13:39 |
| dsockwell | i'm toying with the idea of a large, shared LUN for VMs but that's more complexity I probably won't deal with | 13:40 |
| dsockwell | so i'll probably just use SAN storage teh same as DAS | 13:40 |
| dsockwell | but that's all done through Linux, i'm going to keep nova ignorant of it | 13:42 |
| ziyadb | interesting. I have some more reading to do, reading a storage book by EMC press. | 13:42 |
| ziyadb | i'll ping you later. | 13:42 |
| dsockwell | but, this is because I'm building this installation out of essentially spare parts | 13:42 |
| ziyadb | for private use? | 13:43 |
| dsockwell | sort of | 13:43 |
| dsockwell | it's for a computer club | 13:43 |
| dsockwell | so if there's a performance issue we can tell people to suck it up | 13:44 |
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| ziyadb | ah, i see. | 13:45 |
| dsockwell | anyway if i had my choice of hardware i'd put my openindiana box on a 10GE uplink to a gbit switch and run iscsi for everything, booting the nova machines from DAS | 13:45 |
| ziyadb | im building a public cloud | 13:45 |
| dsockwell | since nova already has a driver for block storage on OI | 13:45 |
| dsockwell | or any solaris | 13:45 |
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| dsockwell | that way i could concentrate i/o on the cluster to a few SSDs | 13:46 |
| dsockwell | but as it stands i'm doing sort of the same thing with an old 2gb FC switch | 13:47 |
| ziyadb | interesting, interesting. | 13:47 |
| ziyadb | I need to familiarize myself with nova further before moving forward. | 13:47 |
| ziyadb | which, as you can imagine, is not as easy as it ought to be. | 13:48 |
| dsockwell | yes | 13:48 |
| dsockwell | what hypervisor are you considering? | 13:48 |
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| ziyadb | most likely esx | 13:50 |
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| dsockwell | ah, can't say that i've dealt with that. i was going to say that centos6 is coming, and openstack has packages for el6 that should fit in nicely if you can deal with kvm instead of xen | 13:52 |
| ziyadb | main reason we're considering esx is because I "think" it has better network support | 13:53 |
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| dsockwell | it might | 13:54 |
| dsockwell | what kind of networking features do you need? | 13:54 |
| ziyadb | whatever is needed to support openstack | 13:55 |
| ziyadb | im a network guy and have been doing this open stack thing for 3 days | 13:55 |
| ziyadb | so im yet to fully wrap my head around it. | 13:55 |
| dsockwell | ok, so you're not being asked for multiple interfaces per instance or whatever else? | 13:55 |
| ziyadb | I don't suppose we're gonna need more than a single interface per vm instance, no. | 13:56 |
| ziyadb | assuming we're talking about network interfaces | 13:57 |
| dsockwell | openstack's best networking mode, what i think you'd use for a public cloud, is l2 isolation per vm. that's all done in Linux | 13:57 |
| dsockwell | the server is the switch | 13:57 |
| dsockwell | so between the networking controller and the compute nodes is what amounts to an 802.11q trunk, and it's split into vlans in Linux on the compute nodes | 13:57 |
| dsockwell | so in that respect esx doesn't have anything special | 13:58 |
| ziyadb | yeah, I have an idea about all of that. But there are other things to consider, like having more than a VM in a L2 domain (i.e. extending the L2 domain from the virtual switch to a physical one which in turn extends it to another virtual switch) for backup purposes and mobility. | 13:58 |
| dsockwell | well it is vanilla 802.11q, so i'm sure with enough patience you could do whatever you have in mind with just Linux. but if there's a feature in esx you know about and I don't, go for it | 14:01 |
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| ziyadb | dsockwell awesomeness, and i take it you mean 802.1q not 11q :) | 14:04 |
| ziyadb | thanks. | 14:04 |
| ziyadb | idle around often? | 14:04 |
| dsockwell | ah, yes | 14:04 |
| dsockwell | ha | 14:04 |
| dsockwell | and i'm usually here | 14:05 |
| dsockwell | that is if you highlight me i'll see the activity, eventually | 14:06 |
| notmyname | ziyadb: for swift, 10g is recommended for external connections and 1g or faster is recommended for internal cluster bandwidth | 14:10 |
| notmyname | swift uses DAS, not SAN | 14:10 |
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| notmyname | for a test cluster 1g could be used for external connections | 14:14 |
| notmyname | swift is designed for 2 things: cheap storage ($/GB) and extremely high concurrency (ie optimize aggregate throughput rather than single stream throughput) | 14:23 |
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| ziyadb | notmyname and nova uses SAN? | 14:27 |
| notmyname | I can't speak for nova | 14:28 |
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| ziyadb | notmyname awesome, thanks for your input | 14:29 |
| dsockwell | nova-volume can use DAS or iscsi | 14:29 |
| dsockwell | pretty sure most instances have a DAS component | 14:29 |
| ziyadb | yeah, wondering if it's possible to use block storage instead via isci or fcip/fcoe | 14:31 |
| notmyname | keeping in mind my last statement, I think so | 14:32 |
| dsockwell | you can mount whatever you want for the disk image storage, and iscsi is the accepted elastic block storage driver | 14:33 |
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| ziyadb | so it's iscsi and fc is mostly off the table | 14:33 |
| dsockwell | pretty much | 14:33 |
| dsockwell | i might get a driver together for solaris fc, but i think development is focusing on iscsi | 14:34 |
| ziyadb | iscsi runs over ip, right? | 14:34 |
| dsockwell | unless i'm sorely mistaken, yes | 14:34 |
| ziyadb | awesomeness | 14:35 |
| dsockwell | it at least operates over ethernet | 14:35 |
| ziyadb | so no need for stupid specialized network gear | 14:35 |
| dsockwell | and if it weren't ip it would be called aoe or fcoe | 14:35 |
| dsockwell | no, just a good ethernet switch | 14:35 |
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| ziyadb | awesome | 14:38 |
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| lucasnodine | Documentation question: at http://docs.openstack.org/cactus/openstack-object-storage/developer/content/overview-api.html the section 2.2 states "Maximum length of all HTTP headers: 4096 bytes | 22:26 |
| lucasnodine | ". Does this mean that all headers (cumulative) must be 4kb or less or does it mean that each individual header must be 4kb or less, but that this rule applies to all of them? | 22:26 |
| notmyname | all total | 22:28 |
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| notmyname | you shouldn't be able to store all of your data in the headers! ;-) | 22:29 |
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| notmyname | however, if you want to up that limit (or lower it), I believe the value is stored in swift/common/consts.py | 22:29 |
| lucasnodine | ah, really, thanks :D | 22:30 |
| lucasnodine | yea, I'm hoping to store the meta information for files in them and then not have 1 file for meta and another for data | 22:30 |
| notmyname | ya, that's what it's for | 22:31 |
| notmyname | however, with no limit, it would be possible for a user to store the actual data in the headers and have a zero byte file | 22:32 |
| lucasnodine | *nod* very useful feature btw. That has proven to be combersome with Couch | 22:32 |
| notmyname | now, on disk, the metadata will always be stored in xattrs, but it may or may not be metadata on the original file | 22:32 |
| notmyname | that is, on disk, some usage patterns can result in one file with the data and one file with the metadata. to the user, though, it's all one logical object/file | 22:33 |
| notmyname | so the user will never have to maintain a separate metadata file (unless they need more than the limit, of course) | 22:34 |
| lucasnodine | well that's still fine. I just hate having to make a reference for a meta and data files | 22:34 |
| notmyname | no need with swift :-) | 22:35 |
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| lucasnodine | that's excellent news :) | 22:35 |
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| notmyname | for performance reasons, you may want to maintain your own indexes of containers (with some metadata per object). for example, you may want to sort on something other than object name or you may want to quickly list the objects in a container with a million files. both of these use cases are hard or impossible with swift | 22:36 |
| notmyname | well, current versions of swift ;-) | 22:37 |
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| lucasnodine | Yea, are there any swift-lucene setups yet? ;P | 22:37 |
| lucasnodine | that woudl make it easier maybe *shrug* | 22:37 |
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