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| VW | happy Monday, all | 13:09 |
|---|---|---|
| spotz | hey WV | 14:28 |
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| mrhillsman | o/ | 15:38 |
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| spotz | hey mrhillsman | 15:39 |
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| VW | hey folks - I have a video meeting at work that is conflicting with the first 30 minutes of ours that I can't move or get out of | 17:35 |
| VW | I'll be a bit silent for the first half of the UC meeting | 17:35 |
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| spotz | no prob VW | 17:51 |
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| aprice | o/ | 18:01 |
| mrhillsman | o/ | 18:02 |
| spotz | hey | 18:02 |
| mrhillsman | #startmeeting uc | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 19 18:02:08 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mrhillsman. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| jamesmcarthur | o/ | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: uc)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'uc' | 18:02 |
| mrhillsman | #chair VW zioproto spotz leong | 18:02 |
| openstack | Warning: Nick not in channel: VW | 18:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: VW leong mrhillsman spotz zioproto | 18:02 |
| mrhillsman | thx VW_ | 18:02 |
| mrhillsman | sorry for being so abrupt :) | 18:02 |
| mrhillsman | #topic RollCall | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RollCall (Meeting topic: uc)" | 18:03 | |
| spotz | o/ | 18:03 |
| *** VW_ is now known as VW | 18:03 | |
| mrhillsman | Agenda #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/UserCommittee | 18:03 |
| VW | o/ (sort of) | 18:03 |
| mrhillsman | will give a minute or two more for others | 18:04 |
| leong | o/ | 18:04 |
| aprice | o/ | 18:05 |
| ashferg | o/ | 18:05 |
| leong | i have to drop in 30 mins for another meeting.. my apoloyg. | 18:05 |
| leong | sorry that i can't attend last week meeting... | 18:05 |
| mrhillsman | thx leong | 18:06 |
| mrhillsman | #topic User Survey Changes | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User Survey Changes (Meeting topic: uc)" | 18:06 | |
| mrhillsman | did you have anything you wanted to cover aprice | 18:06 |
| aprice | not right now - I am working on an email to you all about the changes. jamesmcarthur and I will be working through some of the changes this week | 18:07 |
| mrhillsman | awesome, thx | 18:07 |
| aprice | so that we can begin promoting in April - I will keep the group updated as we move forward :) | 18:07 |
| aprice | one thing.... | 18:07 |
| aprice | at the end of the User Survey, we have PTL specific questions and lsell thought it would be a good idea to get feedback around extended maintenance adn release cycle. | 18:08 |
| spotz | That would be a good ides | 18:08 |
| aprice | So we will share a draft of that question with the UC before including, but wanted to give yall a heads up since that has been a big topic lately. | 18:08 |
| aprice | but other than me needing to send yall info, there's nothing new to cover :) | 18:09 |
| mrhillsman | cool | 18:09 |
| mrhillsman | there is a TC resolution pretty close to being ratified re EM | 18:09 |
| mrhillsman | will be interesting to see responses | 18:09 |
| aprice | oh cool | 18:09 |
| mrhillsman | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/548916/ | 18:10 |
| mrhillsman | in case anyone does not have | 18:10 |
| leong | We probably should send out that link to UC-mailling list to encourage operator feedback on that gerrit | 18:11 |
| mrhillsman | it has gone out at least 3 times | 18:11 |
| mrhillsman | thierry once, myself twice | 18:12 |
| mrhillsman | can definitely do it again though | 18:12 |
| mrhillsman | especially since it looks like thierry called for a formal-vote | 18:12 |
| mrhillsman | after discussion has been taking place for a couple weeks | 18:13 |
| mrhillsman | anything else on the User Survey? | 18:13 |
| aprice | that's all from me | 18:13 |
| mrhillsman | #topic Formalize UC position on Ops Meet-ups based on PTG discussion output | 18:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Formalize UC position on Ops Meet-ups based on PTG discussion output (Meeting topic: uc)" | 18:14 | |
| mrhillsman | i do not remember what this was re specifically | 18:14 |
| jamesmcarthur | So... | 18:14 |
| jamesmcarthur | I can probably address this. We're talking about co-locating the Ops Meetup at the PTG.. However, we need to get buy-in from the folks that manage these meetups. | 18:15 |
| mrhillsman | ah ok | 18:15 |
| jamesmcarthur | Anne Bertucio went as a Foundation rep and there is a lot of resistance to the idea. | 18:15 |
| mrhillsman | i remember that discussion :) | 18:15 |
| jamesmcarthur | A lot of it is simply a language issue - like it's called teh PTG, not the Ops/PTG meetup | 18:16 |
| jamesmcarthur | I'm currently working on an email that I was going to float to mrhillsman and VW for review | 18:16 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 18:16 |
| spotz | PTG was always a strange name though | 18:16 |
| jamesmcarthur | And I'd like to put it in front of a handful of ops to see if we can get buyin. | 18:16 |
| VW | sounds good | 18:16 |
| jamesmcarthur | I don't think we're quite ready to post to the operators list yet, but that would be the ultimate goal. | 18:17 |
| jamesmcarthur | The only real catch here is, we need a decision pretty quickly for the September PTG. We have to have a decision by April 4. | 18:17 |
| leong | wasn't there a comment that the schedule can be very squeezy if both Ops and PTG are on the same week? | 18:17 |
| VW | yeah jamesmcarthur - we can definitely start socialize it with the Meetup team when you are ready | 18:17 |
| jamesmcarthur | leong: yes, it was discussed. I think there is enough downtime later in the week that we can void that. | 18:18 |
| jamesmcarthur | The idea would be that Ops and Devs meet in separate rooms, with only a day overlap between the two. | 18:18 |
| jamesmcarthur | avoid not void | 18:18 |
| mrhillsman | i think from talking with VW that keeping the days events and local meetups as primary places of general discussion, "PTG" as place to work on stuff and have space/overlap to socialize | 18:18 |
| leong | i think there are always good and bad to collocate Ops and PTG , but the logistic might be tough.. | 18:18 |
| jamesmcarthur | leong: i think it's wroth trying in an effort to bridge the divide b/w Ops and Devs | 18:19 |
| spotz | Larger numbers would reduce the overhead for both things though | 18:19 |
| leong | my undestanding is the core-developers will be busy with their Project and cross-project discussion.. not sure how another Ops session can fit into their already-packed schedule within that week | 18:19 |
| jamesmcarthur | sometimes just people sharing dinner and laughs goes a long way to helping build community | 18:19 |
| spotz | +1 | 18:19 |
| aprice | ++ | 18:19 |
| leong | jamesmcarthur: i totally agree... i am not opposing:-) | 18:19 |
| mrhillsman | in my experience i look at a thing like monitoring - i have said this more than one :) - as discussion that happens at midcycle, but no actual "work" for the ops/end-users/app-devs at large comes out of it | 18:19 |
| jamesmcarthur | leong: I don't think the current Ops meetups really get any (or very very few) core developers | 18:19 |
| jamesmcarthur | So this would at least put them in reach | 18:20 |
| leong | i am just thinking how is that going to structure..definitely need to bridge ops and devs | 18:20 |
| VW | yeah - the logistics get a little dicy | 18:20 |
| VW | but the PTG could use a few more folks to help pay for it | 18:20 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 18:20 |
| VW | and the Ops mid-cycle could use more love from the Foundation | 18:20 |
| jamesmcarthur | VW: leong: the good news here is we get the advantage of using our super smooth Events team from the Foundation :) | 18:20 |
| leong | i would like to give that a try... and see how to improve that... | 18:20 |
| VW | so practically speaking, this helps both issues | 18:20 |
| spotz | I think it'll come down to how it's presented and what it's called | 18:21 |
| VW | I was one of the folks who originally opposed, but I have come around ;) | 18:21 |
| jamesmcarthur | It might be a dramatic failure, but I have a feeling, based on attending 2 PTGs, that it would be a successful event. | 18:21 |
| VW | true spotz | 18:21 |
| VW | words are hard | 18:21 |
| jamesmcarthur | spotz: ++ | 18:21 |
| mrhillsman | spotz: ^ | 18:22 |
| jamesmcarthur | I'm currently writing an encyclopedia to send out to explain it | 18:22 |
| VW | cool | 18:22 |
| VW | happy to review whenever you think it's ready for that | 18:22 |
| mrhillsman | from a practical perspective i know there are devs at the PTG who would love to work on ops things | 18:22 |
| mrhillsman | we tend to get some excited parties after the midcycle | 18:22 |
| mrhillsman | it has gone down imho from the first one i attended | 18:23 |
| leong | so is that something aiming to collocate PTG/Ops in 2019? or the next PTG? | 18:23 |
| spotz | I haven't made it to a PTG yet:( | 18:23 |
| jamesmcarthur | leong: ideally the next PTG, but it's really up to the Ops organizers | 18:23 |
| jamesmcarthur | Which kind of brings up a side point... | 18:23 |
| jamesmcarthur | That IMHO, the UC should consider what its involvement is in these meetups. | 18:24 |
| jamesmcarthur | Right now, they exist outside of governance. I'm not saying they must be governed, but based on all the other items we've been discussing... | 18:24 |
| jamesmcarthur | it's worth considering how we structure these things, along with Ambassadors, User Group Leaders, and OpenStack Days | 18:25 |
| ashferg | and we’re also planning a Forum session for all of these groups | 18:26 |
| ashferg | We’re also planning to hold a 90-minute session at the Forum with User Group Leaders and Ambassadors to shape goals for the next year. I created an etherpad to collect ideas and topics for the session, so please feel free to contribute, and I’ll follow up with exact timing, because it would be great to have UC representation there. | 18:26 |
| ashferg | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-UG-Ambassador | 18:27 |
| spotz | Thanks ashferg I'll definitely try to get there | 18:27 |
| VW | "because it would be great to have UC representation there" - s/great/damn near required :) | 18:27 |
| mrhillsman | ^ | 18:27 |
| aprice | :) | 18:27 |
| ashferg | ++ :) | 18:27 |
| leong | ashferg: i will try to be there if my "travel document" is approved :) | 18:27 |
| aprice | VW: subtlety ya know :) | 18:28 |
| mrhillsman | preface - words are hard (VW) - but essentially it is the basis of my concern - trying to be pragmatic about things | 18:28 |
| VW | totally | 18:28 |
| mrhillsman | boiling down to some very simple deliverables and avoid complexity | 18:28 |
| * leong got to drop..will check irc logs offline | 18:28 | |
| mrhillsman | thx leong | 18:28 |
| *** leong has left #openstack-uc | 18:29 | |
| spotz | I think it'll be another summit where the only presentation I make it to are those I'm giving or supporting from the audience:) | 18:29 |
| VW | I just think the UC see has so much opportunity to create a repeatable way to get user discussion turned in to changes in software behavior | 18:29 |
| mrhillsman | ^ | 18:29 |
| jamesmcarthur | ++ | 18:29 |
| mrhillsman | and additional tooling | 18:29 |
| VW | and the more we commit ourselves to all of these things, the better we will be at that | 18:29 |
| spotz | And there's so much stuff that can be shared between groups which probably isn't | 18:29 |
| jamesmcarthur | yes! | 18:29 |
| VW | yeah - spots - I gave up on summit talks in lieu of design/forum sessions a long time ago. So much work to be done... :) | 18:30 |
| mrhillsman | do/can we have any action items today? | 18:30 |
| VW | sorry spotz not spots | 18:30 |
| mrhillsman | same here VW | 18:30 |
| spotz | hehe VW, it's ok one of the spotted wonders is asleep on my fet | 18:31 |
| mrhillsman | oh, speaking of forum, we need to hound people about sessions :) | 18:31 |
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| VW | I think at least you and I have to be ready to quickly review and provide feedback on jamesmcarthur's encyclopedia | 18:31 |
| mrhillsman | the formal tool according to the schedule should open today | 18:31 |
| mrhillsman | need to checking with mike p | 18:31 |
| mrhillsman | s/checking/check | 18:31 |
| spotz | I emailed and got an etherpad going for the Diversity WG, I'll see about getting one going for WoO too | 18:31 |
| mrhillsman | eyes and fingers are ready jamesmcarthur | 18:32 |
| jamesmcarthur | ok - my editors are reviewing mrhillsman ;) | 18:32 |
| spotz | Just be nice to ops, we tend to feel second class:( | 18:32 |
| jamesmcarthur | spotz: yeah, we're trying hard to focus on that | 18:33 |
| mrhillsman | anything else here? i think we essentially are going to wait for the output from jamesmcarthur and review then circulate and everyone understands the discussion/concern | 18:34 |
| spotz | I think we're good | 18:35 |
| VW | what's interesting spotz, is the foundation has been pushing for some time now to have Ops/users drive much more of the priority. No one is really first/second class, but the reality is that we have gone from a world where "hey this is a cool project to dev on" to "hey, people use this @#$% and we should listen to what they have to say about it" | 18:35 |
| mrhillsman | ++ | 18:36 |
| spotz | That's why I think combining is a great idea, get the people in the same room | 18:36 |
| VW | yes, but we also need to make sure we honor the intent for the type of work | 18:37 |
| VW | the forum is still the best place to get everyone in the same room and have them focus on WHAT the software should do | 18:37 |
| mrhillsman | agreed spotz - personally i think we want to help reduce talking to working ratio | 18:37 |
| mrhillsman | ++ VW | 18:37 |
| VW | we need to keep some dev focused activities at the PTG (or what ever we call it) so they can focus on HOW to make the code do that | 18:37 |
| mrhillsman | Forum, OpenStack Days, Local User Groups | 18:38 |
| VW | but having the ops and devs in the location at the "PTG" can still reap many bennifits | 18:38 |
| spotz | We just need to get the groups to submit topics! | 18:38 |
| mrhillsman | "PTG" (newly named/branded) - work :) | 18:38 |
| spotz | OpenStack Community Working Midcycle! | 18:38 |
| mrhillsman | and we can help there too spotz | 18:38 |
| spotz | Keywords added for travel approvals:) | 18:39 |
| VW | mrhillsman: you can action me to go over the little bit of feedback from Tokyo to see if there is a "quick win" for submitting something to the Vancouver forum | 18:39 |
| mrhillsman | last year i reached out to a lot of the local user groups | 18:39 |
| VW | Berlin is still our main goal for the "new" process, but I'd love to score some quick points and advertise the heck out of it if we can | 18:39 |
| mrhillsman | #action VW go over Tokyo feedback for some Forum "quick wins"/sessions | 18:39 |
| VW | "hey Ops - you talked about X. Look - we are turning that into action..." | 18:39 |
| mrhillsman | i think also we may end up finding sessions we need to have use more than one slot | 18:40 |
| spotz | Yeah if we can turnaround and get something in from Tokyo I think it would be a big win | 18:40 |
| VW | and ashferg, it would be great if we could help set the agenda, topics for the big session you described above | 18:41 |
| mrhillsman | could be worthwhile considering the format/planning of the Forum as well at some point | 18:41 |
| ashferg | VW absolutely. would love y’all’s help with that | 18:41 |
| mrhillsman | like wrap up sessions for x project(s) at the end in prep for "ptg" or "x event" | 18:42 |
| VW | yeah - but that to me will depend on a lot on the overall plan for number of events per year - summits and ptgs - which all sounds very TBD after the fall | 18:42 |
| jamesmcarthur | VW: we're definitely planning ot provide a framework for these discussions. I would consider them separate from normal forum sessions And we're also planning on doing the same sessions in Berlin. | 18:42 |
| VW | totally jamesmcarthur | 18:42 |
| mrhillsman | #topic Open Discussion | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: uc)" | 18:44 | |
| mrhillsman | so we have 15 minutes left :) | 18:44 |
| mrhillsman | open mic | 18:44 |
| jamesmcarthur | I just flew in from LA and boy are my arms tired. | 18:46 |
| mrhillsman | lol | 18:46 |
| spotz | oh boy.... | 18:46 |
| mrhillsman | so on jamesmcarthur's bad joke | 18:46 |
| mrhillsman | seems like we can reclaim some time? | 18:47 |
| spotz | Yeah | 18:47 |
| mrhillsman | #endmeeting | 18:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: uc)" | 18:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 19 18:47:32 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2018/uc.2018-03-19-18.02.html | 18:47 |
| mrhillsman | thx everyone! | 18:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2018/uc.2018-03-19-18.02.txt | 18:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/uc/2018/uc.2018-03-19-18.02.log.html | 18:47 |
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