| opendevreview | JaromÃr Wysoglad proposed openstack/governance master: Add aetos to telemetry project https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/946744 | 08:26 |
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| cardoe | I wonder if next go around we could work on some of the PTG scheduling. It seems all the projects overlapped times. | 14:39 |
| gouthamr | cardoe: agree, we can't iron out everything because we work within teams to schedule | 14:40 |
| gouthamr | but, we could atleast make room consciously for cross project discussions | 14:41 |
| gouthamr | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/apr2025_ptg_feedback | 14:41 |
| cardoe | Yeah. There's no magic answer. Wondering if we maybe encourage projects to publish a rough schedule of topics 7 days prior? So that things can de-dup? | 14:41 |
| gouthamr | yeah, ^ i'd recommend adding some notes to that etherpad, we can discuss it post PTG with fungi diablo_rojo_phone et al | 14:42 |
| clarkb | the thought I had recently was we treat the ptg like any other meeting rather than a virtual conference | 14:45 |
| clarkb | treating it like a virtual conference with room for ad hoc discussion /hall way track and intentional attempts to avoid conflicts would help a lot imo | 14:46 |
| gouthamr | ah :) wonder where that came from? i am still thinking this replaced the Design Summit - albeit virtually, and hence poorly | 14:46 |
| clarkb | well we had physical ptgs prior to the virtual ones | 14:47 |
| clarkb | and I think the virtual events that were closer to the physical events were a bit better about this. but over time the silos have grown tall | 14:47 |
| fungi | the ptg was more a replacement for team-specific midcycle meetups | 14:47 |
| fungi | while more of the design summit activity moved to forum sessions at the summit | 14:48 |
| fungi | but some of the hands-on working sessions from the design summits did naturally end up being a better fit for the ptg | 14:49 |
| clarkb | ya I think a similar thing may be happening here too where the ptg has addressed the need for internal focus within projects but not necessarily the broader picture discussion. Maybe we need different organization structure or maybe we just need to be more explicit about addressing both during the ptg | 14:50 |
| fungi | the idea for the ptg came about primarily as a response to foundation board representatives relating that their member organizations were struggling to budget for lots of separate mid-cycle meetups, and people who were working across different projects were overwhelmed by trying to attend multiple mid-cycles for various teams | 14:51 |
| fungi | so we tried combining the mid-cycles in one location at the same time, with venue and logistics arranged by the foundation event staff, albeit on a shoestring budget compared to summits | 14:52 |
| clarkb | fwiw I don't have any great ideas for how to solve the issue. OpenDev tried for several virtual PTGs to have office hours open to those using our tooling rather than time for the team to focus on its own stuff and consistently no one showed up. Timezones probably play a big part in this where the overlap time is so precious teams want to use what little we have to focus on what | 15:04 |
| clarkb | is most important to them | 15:04 |
| JayF | honestly project-ptg and openstack-xproject-ptg almost seem like two separate events | 16:04 |
| gouthamr | i think a 2+3 day split is fine, and should be encouraged | 16:05 |
| JayF | mid-cycles being project-centric was a feature of them, not a bug, as it allows for deep conversation, but we also still have to have space for the project-wide visioning and goals | 16:05 |
| JayF | they just can't be the /same space/ imo because we'll NEVER be able to herd all the cats to schedule friendly with each other | 16:05 |
| gouthamr | we can't fight timezones, but, we could have a scheduling guideline that you can only have x-project discussions | 16:06 |
| gouthamr | during the first two days of the week | 16:06 |
| JayF | I don't think you cut into existing time, this has to be something new | 16:06 |
| JayF | we already use almost every moment of existing time on larger projects | 16:06 |
| gouthamr | ofcourse we do :D there's never enough time | 16:06 |
| JayF | I'm saying I think you'll have side-meeting-mutinys happening | 16:07 |
| JayF | and honestly, the timing of the existing PTG is bad for cross-project stuff | 16:07 |
| gouthamr | its hard to buy time from "downstream" activities for sync meetings if we made this longer though | 16:10 |
| JayF | I'm thinking something around middle of the cycle, a couple days, with actual scheduled conversation items ahead of time | 16:13 |
| fungi | we tend to do better at making forum sessions cross-project | 16:20 |
| JayF | Yeah, and I'm trying to find the right words for it, but I'd rather design communications for an oss community aspirational rather than trying to design to something we know that most middle managers will sign off on | 16:21 |
| JayF | I know that's me trying to live outside of the real world, but at least at places I've worked, asking for the time was a lot harder than just having a pre-planned event as a fait accompli | 16:22 |
| *** dansmith is now known as dansmith_pto | 16:52 | |
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