| opendevreview | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Modify the meeting channel preference https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/794839 | 00:14 |
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| gmann | tc-members: TC meeting in 2 min | 14:58 |
| gmann | #startmeeting tc | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Thu Jun 10 15:00:07 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| gmann | #topic Roll call | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 15:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| yoctozepto | \o/ | 15:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 15:00 |
| mnaser | hola | 15:00 |
| gmann | jungleboyj and diablo_roj will be absent today | 15:01 |
| ricolin | o/ | 15:01 |
| gmann | let's start | 15:01 |
| gmann | #topic Follow up on past action items | 15:02 |
| gmann | two Ai | 15:02 |
| gmann | gmann reachout to sahara team and PTL to get control of the #openstack-sahara channel | 15:02 |
| gmann | jeremyfreudberg updated about contacting SergeyLukjanov via linkedin and other way but no response | 15:02 |
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| gmann | we are waiting for one more response if tosky get reply on mirantis address if no then we can go with asking oftc staff to take control. | 15:03 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 15:03 |
| gmann | I will keep this as AI until then | 15:03 |
| gmann | #action gmann reachout to sahara team and PTL to get control of the #openstack-sahara channel | 15:04 |
| gmann | next is 'ricolin to continue testing patch for TLS and send on ML.' | 15:04 |
| gmann | ricolin: ^^ | 15:04 |
| ricolin | gmann, I do take some deep looks into most attempt on turn tls-proxy on, there's no common error | 15:05 |
| spotz | o/ | 15:05 |
| ricolin | that actually means we're not tls-proxy ready | 15:05 |
| yoctozepto | I know masakari hates tls-proxy atm | 15:06 |
| yoctozepto | I will update you when I debug that | 15:06 |
| yoctozepto | mayhaps we find a pattern to enable tls-proxy everywhere | 15:06 |
| gmann | but should we send this to ML and ask projects to start working/testing on this in meantime | 15:06 |
| ricolin | right now we can do is to only ask team to use tls-proxy and fix bugs | 15:06 |
| yoctozepto | I believe so, we need their help nonetheless | 15:06 |
| ricolin | gmann, we do | 15:06 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:07 |
| ricolin | and I will send it later today | 15:07 |
| yoctozepto | thanks ricolin | 15:07 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: we can do in devstack but that can break things | 15:07 |
| gmann | ricolin: thanks, keeping this AI | 15:07 |
| mnaser | (sorry, i might be a bit out of loop, do you have some context about this tls stuff) | 15:07 |
| yoctozepto | no, we better not force it on them | 15:07 |
| ricolin | will see if we can fix this before Y-cycle | 15:07 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: right | 15:08 |
| yoctozepto | mnaser: the jobs in devstack run with tls-proxy but it's not devstack default | 15:08 |
| ricolin | and in that way, it does not need to be a goal | 15:08 |
| yoctozepto | mnaser: many projects opted out of it | 15:08 |
| mnaser | ack | 15:08 |
| gmann | yeah it is disabled in jobs side | 15:08 |
| yoctozepto | https://codesearch.opendev.org/?q=tls-proxy%3A%20false&i=nope&files=&excludeFiles=&repos= | 15:08 |
| yoctozepto | roughly | 15:08 |
| ricolin | #link https://codesearch.opendev.org/?q=tls-proxy%3A%20false&i=nope&files=&excludeFiles=&repos= | 15:08 |
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| gmann | #action ricolin to send email on asking projects to enable and test tls-proxy in their jobs | 15:09 |
| ricolin | and that's all I have for tls-proxy | 15:09 |
| gmann | ricolin: thanks for working on this and updates | 15:10 |
| gmann | moving next | 15:10 |
| gmann | #topic Gate health check (dansmith/yoctozepto) | 15:10 |
| gmann | gate is not smooth for this week. | 15:10 |
| dansmith | not much from me this week.. still see cinder failures as the primary thing, but tbh I didn't hit them, as much (lower traffic this week too) | 15:10 |
| gmann | dansmith: yoctozepto any news on this | 15:10 |
| gmann | ok | 15:10 |
| gmann | devstack and ovn hitting the issues | 15:11 |
| mnaser | should we get a group of people who can help work with the cinder team and help investigate those | 15:11 |
| mnaser | im unsure if this is a "we dont have enough people to address this" or "we dont really know what's going on and need help" problem | 15:11 |
| gmann | mnaser: I think we have communicated it in cinder team. but not sure about priority for them | 15:11 |
| yoctozepto | the gate atm is possibly still blocked by zuul failure | 15:12 |
| dansmith | mnaser: it's both I think | 15:12 |
| yoctozepto | let's see | 15:12 |
| mnaser | it's only going to get worse the closer we get to release as usual | 15:12 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: yeah. | 15:12 |
| mnaser | which makes this the best time to investigate these issues | 15:12 |
| yoctozepto | it looks like it moved forward | 15:12 |
| fungi | what zuul failure is blocking the gate? | 15:12 |
| yoctozepto | fungi: nah, old story | 15:13 |
| yoctozepto | what frickler was describing | 15:13 |
| gmann | i have not read the log in QA channel yet but yoctozepto or frickler knows about zuul issue | 15:13 |
| fungi | oh, i think frickler was confusing several different (and likely unrelated) issues | 15:13 |
| yoctozepto | oh, so I was tricked | 15:13 |
| mnaser | but i think whatever this potential 'zuul' issue, it's probably just transient or whatever | 15:14 |
| mnaser | not like the repeating cinder stuff for example | 15:14 |
| yoctozepto | but there was some high time job in the queue nonetheless | 15:14 |
| yoctozepto | mnaser: yeah, definitely | 15:14 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:14 |
| yoctozepto | that was just another related topic | 15:14 |
| yoctozepto | the cinder looks serious | 15:14 |
| yoctozepto | so I will quoute mnaser | 15:14 |
| gmann | so what we can do for cinder? pining cinder team ? (again) | 15:14 |
| yoctozepto | 17:11:14 <mnaser> should we get a group of people who can help work with the cinder team and help investigate those | 15:14 |
| yoctozepto | 17:11:49 <mnaser> im unsure if this is a "we dont have enough people to address this" or "we dont really know what's going on and need help" problem | 15:14 |
| yoctozepto | 17:12:15 <mnaser> it's only going to get worse the closer we get to release as usual | 15:15 |
| yoctozepto | 17:12:38 <mnaser> which makes this the best time to investigate these issues | 15:15 |
| yoctozepto | and I agree with all of the above | 15:15 |
| gmann | ' group of people' you mean cinder team or cinder team + more folks want/know about how to debug/fix ? | 15:15 |
| yoctozepto | I think it means a subset of us or another team | 15:16 |
| spotz | Should we reach out and invite them to the next meeting? | 15:16 |
| dansmith | I don't think they need to come to this meeting, | 15:16 |
| dansmith | I think we probably just need to sync up with them in their channel and offer help | 15:16 |
| gmann | spotz: I will say they can debug in theior time | 15:16 |
| dansmith | I've done that in the past and got very little response, FWIW | 15:16 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:17 |
| gmann | anyways let jungleboyj try it again and we can see if any update he can get | 15:17 |
| spotz | ok, I was mainly thinking about snawering the questions is it they don't know or doon't have the people in our meeting not debugging though | 15:17 |
| dansmith | they know | 15:17 |
| dansmith | they suffer from them more than everyone else | 15:18 |
| spotz | k | 15:18 |
| mnaser | so should we come up with something actionable | 15:18 |
| mnaser | i can volunteer to help out troubelshoot these issues | 15:18 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith: is there specific backend in place that fails more? or? do we track details anywhere atm? | 15:18 |
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| dansmith | yoctozepto: I dunno the details of their jobs, so unsure | 15:19 |
| gmann | mnaser: thanks. I will add action for you and jungleboyj on this ? | 15:19 |
| dansmith | yoctozepto: it's definitely not something obvious like "the ceph job always fails but the others are fine" | 15:19 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith: yeah, I was thinking more in terms of their job names | 15:19 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith: ack | 15:19 |
| yoctozepto | keep me in the loop too | 15:20 |
| yoctozepto | and dansmith I guess as well | 15:20 |
| dansmith | um, yes please? :) | 15:20 |
| yoctozepto | <puppy eyes> | 15:20 |
| gmann | ok so as actionable who all will debug this with cinder team? | 15:20 |
| mnaser | i can do that | 15:20 |
| yoctozepto | I can as well | 15:21 |
| gmann | ok, also adding jungleboyj in list as he was doing/volunteer in past meeting | 15:21 |
| gmann | #action mnaser, yoctozepto, and jungleboyj to work on cinder bug with cinder team. | 15:21 |
| yoctozepto | I guess with our varied experience we might come up with something finally | 15:21 |
| mnaser | yes, i'm sure we can dig it out | 15:22 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: on ovn things, I will check log/patch in QA after meeting | 15:22 |
| gmann | anything else on gate status ? | 15:22 |
| yoctozepto | gmann: no problem, I persuaded neutrinos already :-) | 15:22 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:22 |
| gmann | #topic Migration from 'Freenode' to 'OFTC' (gmann) | 15:23 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack-irc-migration-to-oftc | 15:23 |
| yoctozepto | still occasional wanderers | 15:23 |
| gmann | we have update on this. | 15:23 |
| mnaser | i think we'll need a month a tleast imho | 15:23 |
| spotz | I'm idling there, mainly seeing rude bots | 15:23 |
| gmann | as decided in last meeting, we can change the freenode channel topic tomorrow 11th Junew | 15:23 |
| mnaser | so that any monthly meeting folks | 15:23 |
| mnaser | i've noticed it's mostly a "are we not meeting today?" messages | 15:24 |
| yoctozepto | will infra help mass-set the topic to a unified one? | 15:24 |
| yoctozepto | mnaser: hah, nice | 15:24 |
| gmann | and project side doc/wiki updates are going on | 15:24 |
| gmann | we have published this migration in newsletter also | 15:25 |
| fungi | i can set topics in any of the openstack channels, sure | 15:25 |
| yoctozepto | yeah, and I am very positive I have covered all places for my two projects, yet they still get visitors | 15:25 |
| yoctozepto | so it's just people are used to it | 15:25 |
| gmann | once we change the Topic I will check with oif staff to publish it on twitter or so if ok with them | 15:25 |
| fungi | just be forewarned that freenode staff may take the channels over and reset/wipe topics once we do | 15:25 |
| yoctozepto | have their chat clients for openstack ready | 15:25 |
| yoctozepto | just for the old network | 15:25 |
| gmann | fungi: yeah, I will ping you for that. tomorrow is time to do that | 15:25 |
| gmann | yeah i think we are ready for that if freenode take any action | 15:26 |
| gmann | anything else on this topic? | 15:27 |
| yoctozepto | fwiw, freenode had a surprise this week | 15:27 |
| yoctozepto | one of their servers did not register NickServ | 15:27 |
| yoctozepto | and someone claimed it | 15:27 |
| yoctozepto | ;d | 15:27 |
| gmann | #topic Xena Tracker | 15:28 |
| dansmith | IRC as usual :) | 15:28 |
| spotz | My bouncer is still freenode, oftc and libera aren't on it yet:( | 15:28 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-xena-tracker | 15:28 |
| gmann | I have updates on my side | 15:28 |
| gmann | on PTL guide etc I have updated it with OFTC and projects are merging the patches faster than before | 15:28 |
| gmann | on UC repos, I found some of the repo we can retire. I will prepare the etherpad next week to discuss about those repo | 15:29 |
| gmann | that is all from my side | 15:29 |
| gmann | anyone please update if you have any progress on your assigned item | 15:29 |
| ricolin | updating | 15:31 |
| gmann | thanks | 15:31 |
| gmann | everyone (tc-members ) please check your assigned item. we will again track it on 24th June meeting | 15:31 |
| gmann | moving next | 15:32 |
| gmann | #topic Recommendation on moving the meeting channel to project channel | 15:32 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/794839 | 15:32 |
| gmann | as we discussed about suggesting project to move their meeting to project channel, I am updating the project team guide for that | 15:32 |
| gmann | I think we do not need resolution for that as such and updating it in project team guide is enough | 15:32 |
| gmann | but we can check it here if any tc is against of that ? | 15:33 |
| fungi | i'm still unclear on where that recommendation came from, it's a reversal to a very long-standing recommendation | 15:33 |
| gmann | FYI: nova, neutron and few more projects already moved their meritng | 15:33 |
| gmann | meeting | 15:33 |
| spotz | I thhink all the meetings I go to arer in channel for the last few years | 15:33 |
| yoctozepto | fungi: to get more eyes on meetings | 15:33 |
| dansmith | fungi: it came from me, at least | 15:34 |
| dansmith | glance does not want to move, FWIW, and even though I wish they would, there's really no reason to require it, IMHO | 15:34 |
| fungi | more eyes? by expecting everyone to be in every project's channel if they want to participate in meetings, seems like that would be fewer eyes | 15:34 |
| yoctozepto | folks interested in a project sit in its channel | 15:34 |
| fungi | not openstack any longer, but the infra meetings when given the choice even created a new dedicated meeting channel to keep their regular channel discussions and bot announcements from colliding with the meeting | 15:35 |
| spotz | There's pros and cons both ways to be honest | 15:35 |
| gmann | I think most of the audience now a days in meetings are project active contributors or who are already in that channel | 15:35 |
| yoctozepto | fungi: you run a very active support | 15:36 |
| fungi | makes sense, openstack as a whole is becoming increasingly silo'd so cross-project cooperation is probably less and less of an expectation these days | 15:36 |
| gmann | well cross-project is separate things, most of contributors are already doing cross-project contribution | 15:36 |
| gmann | most of us involved in multiple projects so we have are in those channel | 15:37 |
| gmann | attending meeting in project channel does not ask anything extra | 15:37 |
| fungi | well, until they decide to all also reschedule to the exact same timeslots i suppose | 15:37 |
| * fungi is already triple-booked during tc meetings, expects things to get worse after this | 15:38 | |
| gmann | yeah but that is less chance | 15:38 |
| dansmith | fungi: get worse after what? | 15:38 |
| yoctozepto | you are good at multitasking, fungi | 15:38 |
| gmann | most of project ask via doodle vote so we adjust the conflcit | 15:39 |
| fungi | dansmith: more meetings colliding in the same timeslots | 15:39 |
| spotz | I understand tthe double and triple booked thing:( | 15:39 |
| dansmith | and they don't avoid a time because there are no meeting channel slots, I'm sure :) | 15:39 |
| gmann | like nova ask and I or dansmith vote for non-tc meeting time slot so less chance of conflict | 15:39 |
| fungi | well, we used to avoid having too many meetings at the same time bu scheduling them cross-project into a limited number of channels, but yes that's no longer in vogue | 15:39 |
| gmann | double triple booking is for separate reason i think not becasue of where those meeting are | 15:40 |
| dansmith | since we gained eleventy billion projects I think that's pretty much out the window anyway | 15:40 |
| spotz | fungi's point is therer was less of that if everryone booked there meetings in 1 of 4 rooms | 15:40 |
| gmann | if that happen then attendees will ask either of one to reschedule | 15:41 |
| dansmith | so eleventy billion divided by 4 is greater than 24, | 15:41 |
| gmann | that is how it work now a days | 15:41 |
| dansmith | or even 24*7 :) | 15:41 |
| dansmith | right | 15:41 |
| fungi | i'll cope well enough, i already join ~50 different project channels for openstack, and regularly deal with participating in multiple meetings simultaneously, just not sure if the same goes for other folks | 15:41 |
| yoctozepto | may we add some functionality to irc-meetings | 15:42 |
| yoctozepto | to let projects designate what other projects should not collide | 15:43 |
| yoctozepto | if we really think, it's going to be a huge issue | 15:43 |
| yoctozepto | I personally don't | 15:43 |
| gmann | anyways let's review the proposal in this patch and I will keep it open until next meeting. if I see many objection then we can discuss it again #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/794839 | 15:43 |
| yoctozepto | ++ | 15:43 |
| gmann | #topic Open Reviews | 15:44 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open | 15:44 |
| gmann | fungi: In case you forget. I am waiting for your vote in this #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/795385 | 15:45 |
| belmoreira | I understand fungi concern and I still remember the discussions before the introduction of meeting-alt. But since the addition of the different meeting channels we have been moving this issue... | 15:45 |
| gmann | or you do not want to retire it :) | 15:45 |
| fungi | gmann: yep, i'm in the middle of a multi-day internet outage so... it may be a bit still | 15:45 |
| gmann | fungi: sure | 15:45 |
| fungi | but thanks for the reminder | 15:45 |
| gmann | tc-members: please vote on these two #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/794366 #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/794680 | 15:46 |
| spotz | done | 15:47 |
| gmann | belmoreira: yeah, even with 4 meeting channels, i personally find it difficult to keep up with every meeting. | 15:47 |
| gmann | thanks. | 15:48 |
| gmann | anything else to discuss today? | 15:48 |
| gmann | if nothing let's close then | 15:49 |
| gmann | thanks everyone for joining. | 15:49 |
| gmann | #endmeeting | 15:49 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Thu Jun 10 15:49:41 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:49 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-06-10-15.00.html | 15:49 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-06-10-15.00.txt | 15:49 |
| opendevmeet | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-06-10-15.00.log.html | 15:49 |
| spotz | Thanks everyone! | 15:52 |
| yoctozepto | thanks | 15:53 |
| gmann | tc-memebrs: fungi I wrote the topic change wording in L28 https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack-irc-migration-to-oftc | 16:03 |
| gmann | please check or reword if needed. that can be used for all our channel's topic change happening tomorrow | 16:03 |
| fungi | thanks, can you also identify which channels the tc feels should be updated with this? obviously updating non-openstack channels isn't up to the tc | 16:04 |
| gmann | fungi: let me fetch it from project.yaml and add link in etherpad | 16:05 |
| fungi | thanks | 16:05 |
| gmann | fungi: also i realized we need to change topic for tc channel here also with updated info about office hours/meeting | 16:05 |
| fungi | or you can just say "apply to all channels listed in teh current reference/projects.yaml file in openstack/governance and i can get that | 16:05 |
| gmann | fungi: yes, and general channels (openstack, openstack-dev) + SIG channels | 16:06 |
| fungi | though i have a feeling there are at least a few openstack channels in addition to those listed in the projects.yaml | 16:06 |
| fungi | right, stuff like that | 16:06 |
| gmann | +1 | 16:06 |
| fungi | so if you just want to make a list of things not covered by projects.yaml that's sufficient for me | 16:07 |
| gmann | fungi: sure, I will do | 16:07 |
| gmann | fungi: can you also change the topic of this channel to " Discussions for OpenStack Technical Committee | meetings: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/#meeting-office-hour | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/ " | 16:10 |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "Discussions for OpenStack Technical Committee | meetings: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/#meeting-office-hour | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/" | 16:13 | |
| fungi | gmann: done | 16:13 |
| gmann | fungi: thanks | 16:14 |
| fungi | also you can propose anyone you like as ops for the channel, just submit a review to add an ops list at https://opendev.org/openstack/project-config/src/branch/master/accessbot/channels.yaml#L219 | 16:14 |
| fungi | see the #tripleo entry for an example | 16:15 |
| fungi | or the #oooq entry | 16:15 |
| gmann | yeah. ack | 16:16 |
| fungi | also documented at https://docs.opendev.org/opendev/system-config/latest/irc.html#accessbot | 16:16 |
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