| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Update TC onboarding guide https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/786942 | 01:17 |
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| gmann | o/ | 13:33 |
| spotz | o/ | 13:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Remove expired extra-atc from Ironic https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/787565 | 14:15 |
| yoctozepto | \o/ | 14:31 |
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| gmann | tc-members: meeting time | 14:59 |
| yoctozepto | indeed | 14:59 |
| gmann | #startmeeting tc | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 29 15:00:17 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 15:00 |
| gmann | #topic roll call | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:00 | |
| gmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 15:00 |
| mnaser | o/ | 15:00 |
| yoctozepto | o/ | 15:00 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 15:00 |
| gmann | let's start | 15:02 |
| gmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda_Suggestions | 15:02 |
| gmann | today agenda ^^ | 15:02 |
| gmann | #topic Follow up on past action items | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Follow up on past action items (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:02 | |
| gmann | no action item form last meeting #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-04-15-15.00.html | 15:03 |
| gmann | #topic PTG | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:03 | |
| gmann | we have captured the discussion in PTG etherpad #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-xena-ptg | 15:03 |
| gmann | I have also summarized the discussion on ML http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-April/022120.html | 15:04 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 15:04 |
| gmann | if anything I missed, feel free to add it | 15:04 |
| spotz | o/ | 15:04 |
| gmann | anything on PTG things? | 15:05 |
| spotz | Not from my sidee | 15:05 |
| gmann | ok, I will remove this topic for next weekly meeting onwards. | 15:05 |
| gmann | #action gmann drop PTG topic from agenda | 15:06 |
| gmann | #topic TC tracker for Xena cycle (gmann) | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TC tracker for Xena cycle (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:06 | |
| gmann | as discussed in PTG, I have created the Xena cycle tracker etherpad | 15:06 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-xena-tracker | 15:06 |
| gmann | I added all the working item with assignee | 15:06 |
| gmann | one item I forget to ask assignee during PTG is 'OpenStack to a yearly release cycle' | 15:07 |
| gmann | item #11 in etherpad | 15:07 |
| gmann | I would like to ask volunteer for this. | 15:07 |
| * jungleboyj nominates TheJulia ;-) | 15:09 | |
| TheJulia | I have an absurd number of items on my plate, fwiw | 15:09 |
| jungleboyj | I was kidding. | 15:09 |
| jungleboyj | gmann: What were the next items for that? | 15:09 |
| spotz | More seriously maybe one person for the change and one person against the change? | 15:09 |
| gmann | there are two Ai we collected | 15:10 |
| gmann | 1. Reach out to Project team + operators about feedback via ML. | 15:10 |
| gmann | 2. Encourage "Operation Docs and Tooling" SIG to add upgrades and operational education guideline | 15:10 |
| TheJulia | the problem is it becomes an argument of "who is the loudest winds" | 15:10 |
| gmann | we did not conclude to change it but more about getting more feedback and improve the education bits | 15:11 |
| jungleboyj | Ok. I think 1 is the most important there as we have feedback from a couple of people. Would like to get more input. | 15:11 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:11 |
| yoctozepto | I like this version with "winds" | 15:11 |
| gmann | anyways I will keep it open in case anyone take this. | 15:11 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:12 |
| gmann | mnaser: as you missed the last hr of PTG. we distributed the working item to all the TC members with having each TC member taking at least one item. | 15:12 |
| spotz | I was more for making sure both sides were represnted to make sure the information was fully collected | 15:12 |
| TheJulia | jungleboyj: ++ to feedback | 15:12 |
| gmann | mnaser: and one I added for you is 'Stable core team process change' L34 in https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-xena-tracker | 15:12 |
| jungleboyj | spotz: ++ | 15:12 |
| mnaser | fair enough :) thanks for putting my name down | 15:12 |
| gmann | mnaser: hope that is ok, if not I can help jungleboyj on this | 15:12 |
| mnaser | nope, thats okay for me | 15:12 |
| gmann | cool, thanks | 15:13 |
| gmann | and for tracking, I am thinking to keep checking status in every alternate weekly meeting. | 15:13 |
| gmann | is that ok for all? | 15:13 |
| jungleboyj | That makes sense. | 15:14 |
| yoctozepto | ok for me | 15:14 |
| gmann | weekly check might be very frequent so i thought once in a 2 week is reasonable time in term of progress also | 15:14 |
| spotz | DO we have a way to get all PTL email addresses? | 15:14 |
| gmann | yeah, in project yaml | 15:14 |
| spotz | Ok thanks | 15:14 |
| gmann | spotz: this one #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/projects/ | 15:14 |
| gmann | each project has PTL email as mandatory and IRC as optional | 15:15 |
| spotz | perfect! | 15:15 |
| mnaser | that wfm wrt alternate meeting | 15:16 |
| gmann | ok | 15:16 |
| gmann | I think we should add email id for SIG chair/co-chair too #link https://governance.openstack.org/sigs/ | 15:16 |
| gmann | I will add it in case SIG wiki page does not have or old info | 15:17 |
| gmann | #action gmann to add SIG chair/co-chair info in sig doc site | 15:17 |
| gmann | ok, anything else on Xena tracker ? | 15:17 |
| yoctozepto | not from me | 15:18 |
| gmann | ok, let's move | 15:18 |
| gmann | #topic Gate performance and heavy job configs (dansmith) | 15:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate performance and heavy job configs (dansmith) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:18 | |
| gmann | dansmith updated that he might not be available today. | 15:18 |
| gmann | one thing to inform about dropping Bionic support from devstack (Xena onwards) | 15:19 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/devstack/+/788754 | 15:19 |
| gmann | we can reduce the maintenance of fixing bionic bugs that way | 15:19 |
| gmann | but there are few jobs running on Bionic which needs to be migrated to focal first. | 15:20 |
| gmann | anything else on gate check? | 15:20 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: ? | 15:20 |
| yoctozepto | do we have a list of those bionic jobs? | 15:20 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: I need to fetch all form here #link http://logstash.openstack.org/#/dashboard/file/logstash.json?query=message:%5C%22Failed%20to%20start%20rtslib-fb-targetctl.service%5C%22 | 15:21 |
| gmann | one is cinder-plugin-ceph-tempest-mn-aa | 15:21 |
| yoctozepto | hah, that's one way | 15:21 |
| gmann | and in octavia also | 15:21 |
| gmann | I will put this on ML and then we can wait for bionic drop patch | 15:21 |
| yoctozepto | well, I can see nova too | 15:22 |
| gmann | that is in gate to merged | 15:22 |
| yoctozepto | ack | 15:22 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/778885/10 | 15:22 |
| gmann | basically finding via 'rtslib-fb-targetctl' failure but there might be few more. | 15:22 |
| gmann | I am more concern on 3rd party CI where migration to new distro happens very late. | 15:23 |
| gmann | but we have to trigger them at some point | 15:24 |
| yoctozepto | perhaps this cycle precisely | 15:24 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:24 |
| yoctozepto | as we simply don't support bionic at this point | 15:24 |
| yoctozepto | so it's only by luck | 15:24 |
| yoctozepto | that those pass | 15:24 |
| gmann | anyways let's put this on ML and see if project need more time. | 15:24 |
| yoctozepto | ok | 15:24 |
| gmann | true, and as this is start of cycle, it is perfect time. | 15:25 |
| gmann | let's move next | 15:25 |
| gmann | #topic TC's context, name, and documenting formal responsibilities (TheJulia) | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TC's context, name, and documenting formal responsibilities (TheJulia) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:25 | |
| gmann | we have on topic from TheJulia | 15:25 |
| gmann | TheJulia: go ahead | 15:25 |
| * yoctozepto asked on #openstack-infra if we can have a better way to list the bionic jobs | 15:26 | |
| TheJulia | Greetings, after the discussion during the ptg last week, I'm worried that the TC has has essentially dropped the responsibilites that came with the user committee and is also seeming to not want to recognize the reality that as leaders, non-technical questions must be part of the discussion. | 15:26 |
| TheJulia | I honestly feel, the name is now out of sync, and I realize the fear of bylaws changes is a concern, but I don't believe the board would object if the TC passed a resolution to amend it's name | 15:26 |
| gmann | i see, what all responsibilities from UC ? | 15:27 |
| gmann | I remember we excluded few of them like local user groups reach-out/management etc | 15:28 |
| TheJulia | Well, so that is an interesting conundrum aside from the implication of representation of the users of the software, much of the formal responsibilities seems not to be documented, at least in bylaws | 15:28 |
| TheJulia | so a single unified list needs to be accessible as well | 15:28 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:28 |
| TheJulia | even if it is just for consensus building amongst the committee | 15:28 |
| spotz | ++ | 15:29 |
| TheJulia | The bottom line is time has changed and evolved, so must practices and expectations. | 15:29 |
| jungleboyj | I think it is important that the Users are represented but don't really know what that entails. :-) | 15:29 |
| yoctozepto | agreed | 15:29 |
| gmann | yeah i agree that, I think we merged few of them. if not then we should add in #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/role-of-the-tc.html | 15:29 |
| jungleboyj | TheJulia: ++ | 15:29 |
| belmoreira | +1 | 15:29 |
| jungleboyj | gmann: ++ | 15:29 |
| gmann | we merged the charter from uc, i remember that | 15:30 |
| gmann | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/user-committee-charter.html | 15:31 |
| TheJulia | It seems like there seems to be some agreement that work in this area needs to be done to clean up/consolidate. Motivation to merge doesn't tell me what the responsibilities were much less what the committee now believes it should be doing. | 15:32 |
| jungleboyj | Agreed. | 15:32 |
| spotz | Looking at the TC role page it doesn't seem to cover all that we need to do since the Foundation isn't just OpenStack anymore | 15:32 |
| TheJulia | Again, times change, and so on and so forth | 15:33 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:33 |
| gmann | we should add those resp in TC role doc to make very clear #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/role-of-the-tc.html | 15:33 |
| TheJulia | One thing, a high level index on that might be useful since it is an overflow of words to have to skim it :) | 15:34 |
| spotz | As I mentioned during the PTG, to all intent and purpose we are not the Governing Board of OpenStack overseeing the project not just the technical side | 15:34 |
| TheJulia | That is really all, and I would encourage the TC to consider addressing it's name. Again, I don't think from a board member pov, that will be much of an issue since there will be a round of bylaws cleanup due to the foundation rename this year | 15:34 |
| spotz | not=now | 15:34 |
| gmann | we also need to do more work on UC repo too, merging it in tc or so | 15:34 |
| TheJulia | So it may actually be a *good* time | 15:34 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah. I think it is a good time. | 15:35 |
| TheJulia | So, I've voiced my concerns, thanks for listening everyone! | 15:35 |
| gmann | TheJulia: agree, thanks for raising it which is very imp | 15:35 |
| jungleboyj | TheJulia: Thank you for raising. | 15:35 |
| gmann | I will add AI for me to start adding those in our doc or repo merge etc | 15:36 |
| yoctozepto | TheJulia: thanks | 15:37 |
| ricolin | sorry I'm late, was in another meeting call | 15:37 |
| gmann | #action gmann to start updates to consume/merge UC responsibility in TC | 15:37 |
| jungleboyj | Sounds good. | 15:37 |
| spotz | +1 | 15:37 |
| belmoreira | +1 | 15:38 |
| gmann | and as we have many user facing faces in TC it will be much easy for us to engage the users/feedback/circulating it to projects | 15:39 |
| gmann | anything else on this topic? | 15:39 |
| gmann | ok, moving next then | 15:40 |
| gmann | #topic Open Reviews | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Reviews (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:40 | |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/project:openstack/governance+is:open | 15:40 |
| gmann | we have 4 formal-vote and 2 documentation changes open | 15:40 |
| yoctozepto | you have my votes on everything | 15:41 |
| spotz | I wasn't sure if we shhould vote so was just reviewing | 15:41 |
| gmann | spotz: in case you missed to add Recall-Vote in this ? i saw only code review +1 from your. https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/786942 | 15:41 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: great, thanks | 15:42 |
| gmann | spotz: ok, you can Recall-Vote so that we can merge them as per change type. | 15:42 |
| yoctozepto | Rollcall-Vote* | 15:42 |
| gmann | we have different set of criteria on number of vote/time to be open or so | 15:42 |
| spotz | gmann adding votes | 15:43 |
| yoctozepto | though it's hard to mistake anyhow | 15:43 |
| gmann | cool thanks | 15:43 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: :) i always mistype that :) | 15:43 |
| yoctozepto | no problem | 15:43 |
| yoctozepto | here to help :-) | 15:43 |
| gmann | ok, that's all form me. anything else to discuss today ? | 15:44 |
| fungi | catching up, but remember there were no new responsibilities which "came with the uc," the uc was defunct and the most effective way to let it go without an expensive rewrite of parts of the foundation bylaws was to say the tc was also the uc... but the bylaws do not actually give the uc any explicit responsibilities, so the "uc responsibilities" are whatever the tc-members want them to be | 15:44 |
| * jungleboyj will do code reviews here when I am not in two meetings at once. :-) | 15:44 | |
| fungi | if tc members want there to be specific uc-oriented responsibilities then they're free to take those on | 15:45 |
| yoctozepto | good point, fungi | 15:45 |
| gmann | fungi: agree, as we merged both entity now, we can reflect them in tc-role doc too | 15:45 |
| yoctozepto | though TheJulia is right that we should strive to cover that role as well to have a healthier community | 15:45 |
| gmann | but i remember we decided not to take marketing stuff like user groups reachout or so | 15:45 |
| jungleboyj | Right. I think part of the reason this is important is really, OpenStack is transitioned to a period of more use than development. | 15:45 |
| spotz | The problem gmann is that if we don't there's no one else who will. So we need to decide if that's ok | 15:46 |
| jungleboyj | As a leadership body we need to keep that in mind. | 15:46 |
| ricolin | jungleboyj, true | 15:46 |
| gmann | let's start adding the things and see if something new comes up or its just things we should reflect in our doc too | 15:46 |
| fungi | "marketing stuff like user groups reachout" was a responsibility the old uc claimed it had, but ultimately the foundation staff were taking care of most of that for them | 15:47 |
| gmann | spotz: that part is moved to foundation side, at least that is what i know from uc-tc merge discussion | 15:47 |
| spotz | ok | 15:47 |
| gmann | fungi: indeed, that is what i think you or ttx mentioned that time too | 15:47 |
| TheJulia | I think contextually, it is lost on many, the foundation staff responsibilities are different than they were even just two years ago. | 15:47 |
| TheJulia | It is easy for people to get stuck in that context, and not move forward, so without re-evaluating and coming back to "what are the responsibilities of x group", then that continue which ultimately may hinder other aspects or cause whole areas to not receive attention. | 15:48 |
| yoctozepto | ok, gmann already put an action on himself to collect those extra reqs from uc that make sense, and we will discuss them in the following meetings | 15:49 |
| yoctozepto | not much to dwell on today unless we have concrete ideas already | 15:50 |
| fungi | keep in mind i'm not disagreeing that the tc might want to consider taking on some of that, just pointing out the "old uc" didn't really do it either, convincing community volunteers to oversee those sorts of things isn't easy | 15:50 |
| gmann | yeah, let's discuss each resp one by one and discuss. | 15:50 |
| yoctozepto | need to keep in mind to deliver those that the community would care about | 15:50 |
| yoctozepto | and not just art for art | 15:50 |
| gmann | yeah, once we have exact list of what UC was doing and TC need to adopt then we can have concrete discussion | 15:51 |
| TheJulia | yoctozepto: even if it is just a call or encouragement, then it can go very far. | 15:51 |
| yoctozepto | it can indeed | 15:51 |
| fungi | you probably want to follow up with the foundation staff, since they were the folks doing those things | 15:52 |
| gmann | along with that we need to cleanup UC repo also which was pending item also #link https://github.com/openstack/governance/blob/master/reference/user-committee-repos.yaml | 15:52 |
| gmann | fungi: +1 | 15:52 |
| yoctozepto | like, if it was not for you, TheJulia, we would probably be not discussing this now at all ;-) | 15:52 |
| yoctozepto | thanks for the gentle nudge | 15:52 |
| TheJulia | :) | 15:52 |
| gmann | and i am sure during those repo cleanup we will get more points/responsibility | 15:52 |
| yoctozepto | ++ | 15:53 |
| gmann | anyways, I am adding this in our Xena tracker too in case we forget about this even i added AI | 15:53 |
| yoctozepto | ++ | 15:53 |
| spotz | ++ | 15:53 |
| TheJulia | bottom line, the repos are hard to find data. Indexing is a huge issue on how to just find information. It is a classic problem though :( | 15:53 |
| jungleboyj | Makes sense. | 15:53 |
| gmann | we have 7 min left, any other topic. | 15:53 |
| gmann | if nothing let's close meeting. | 15:55 |
| gmann | thanks everyone for joining | 15:55 |
| gmann | #endmeeting | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/" | 15:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 29 15:55:46 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-04-29-15.00.html | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-04-29-15.00.txt | 15:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-04-29-15.00.log.html | 15:55 |
| jungleboyj | Good meeting! Thanks guys! | 15:55 |
| spotz | Thanks everyone! | 15:56 |
| yoctozepto | thanks | 15:56 |
| spotz | *kicks jungleboyj* | 15:56 |
| yoctozepto | jungleboyj: all tc meetings are good meetings | 15:56 |
| jungleboyj | Hey, what was that for? | 15:56 |
| yoctozepto | we are the good guys here | 15:56 |
| ricolin | :) | 15:56 |
| jungleboyj | Oh thanks guys and gals? | 15:57 |
| spotz | :) | 15:57 |
| yoctozepto | oh, right | 15:57 |
| yoctozepto | folks* | 15:57 |
| jungleboyj | folks it is then. | 15:57 |
| yoctozepto | though in some communities they say guys is genderless | 15:57 |
| yoctozepto | whatever ye prefer | 15:57 |
| jungleboyj | That is how I use it but don't want to offend. | 15:57 |
| spotz | Yeah and I used to as well yoctozepto to be honest then got yelled at for it | 15:57 |
| jungleboyj | spotz: Sister from a different mister. ;-) | 15:57 |
| gmann | yeah, i use guys a lot but not sure if that is right thing or not | 15:58 |
| yoctozepto | spotz: me too, though I tend to forget because "folks" sometimes offend people | 15:58 |
| yoctozepto | so I am lost from time to time | 15:58 |
| spotz | y'all!:) | 15:58 |
| yoctozepto | oh, perfect | 15:58 |
| yoctozepto | though "we are the good y'all" does not work | 15:58 |
| spotz | We are the good peeps?:) | 15:59 |
| * yoctozepto in search for new English words to fill that void | 15:59 | |
| yoctozepto | I guarantee "peeps" would at least bring some smiles :D | 15:59 |
| spotz | I only pick on jungleboyj cause we're like family:) | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | Awwww. :-) | 16:01 |
| yoctozepto | awww | 16:01 |
| yoctozepto | *the whole tc melts from cuteness overload* | 16:01 |
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| spotz | Need more caffeine! | 16:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Update TC onboarding guide https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/786942 | 22:56 |
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