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| evrardjp | o/ | 08:29 |
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| njohnston | o/ | 12:02 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 12:41 |
| jungleboyj | Do we have a TC Meeting today? | 12:41 |
| evrardjp | why not? | 12:43 |
| jungleboyj | Just hadn't seen any notes about it, but I have also been running in circles this week. :-) | 12:44 |
| evrardjp | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-June/015657.html | 12:45 |
| jungleboyj | I am triple booked at that time but will try to follow along. :-) | 12:45 |
| jungleboyj | Ah, thank you. :-) | 12:45 |
| evrardjp | yw :) | 12:45 |
| njohnston | I will be 10-15 minutes late for the meeting | 13:28 |
| njohnston | this is the time my daughter's school has for people to retrieve their locker contents | 13:29 |
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| mnaser | #startmeeting tc | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 2 14:00:35 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mnaser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 14:00 |
| mnaser | #topic rollcall | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:00 | |
| mnaser | o/ | 14:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 14:00 |
| ricolin | o/ | 14:01 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 14:01 |
| evrardjp | o/ | 14:01 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 14:01 |
| jungleboyj | Though multi-tasking. | 14:01 |
| mnaser | i count 5 tc members so far | 14:02 |
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| evrardjp | only one missing | 14:03 |
| evrardjp | diablo_rojo: are you there? | 14:03 |
| diablo_rojo | o/ | 14:03 |
| evrardjp | there you go mnaser :) | 14:03 |
| * diablo_rojo needs caffeine.. | 14:04 | |
| mnaser | 6/11 makes us good | 14:04 |
| mnaser | tc-members: friendly reminder our monthly meeting is happening | 14:04 |
| mnaser | cool, let's get started. | 14:04 |
| mnaser | #topic Follow up on past action items | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Follow up on past action items (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:05 | |
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| mnaser | there was no action items from the past meeting, also, the last meeting was quite a while back too. | 14:05 |
| mnaser | so it doesn't have a lot of context. there's not much here, hopefully we come up with a bunch this week. | 14:05 |
| mnaser | s/week/month | 14:05 |
| evrardjp | lgtm | 14:05 |
| diablo_rojo | There were a bunch of action items from the PTG though | 14:06 |
| diablo_rojo | in my summary email | 14:06 |
| mnaser | ah, right. | 14:06 |
| diablo_rojo | :D | 14:06 |
| mnaser | let's grab those, that makes sense, we have quorum there | 14:06 |
| evrardjp | that's probably what we should indeed report here for community members | 14:06 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 14:06 |
| evrardjp | thanks ttx for being there btw :) | 14:06 |
| mnaser | Start the User Facing API Pop Up Team | 14:06 |
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| knikolla | o/ | 14:06 |
| ttx | who says I'm here | 14:06 |
| evrardjp | busted | 14:06 |
| mnaser | we don't have an owned for that item yet | 14:06 |
| mnaser | s/owned/owner/ | 14:07 |
| mnaser | i would suggest that we send an email out to the ML asking for owners for these. it's probably a little unfair we pick one up at the meeting. i don't think any progress has been done much on that | 14:07 |
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| mnaser | #action Find an owner to start the user facing API pop-up team | 14:08 |
| mnaser | anything else about this action item? | 14:08 |
| diablo_rojo | Nothing from me. | 14:09 |
| mnaser | #undo | 14:09 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #action Find an owner to start the user facing API pop-up team | 14:09 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser to find owner to start using facing API pop-up team over ML | 14:09 |
| *** belmorei_ has quit IRC | 14:09 | |
| mnaser | next is "Write a resolution about how the deconstructed PTL roles will work" | 14:09 |
| mnaser | i think i was one of those who was running my mouth a lot about this :) also, i think ttx has some sorts of proposal in gerrit which was abandoned | 14:10 |
| mnaser | maybe restoring that change and iterating on it could be what we need to do. | 14:10 |
| diablo_rojo | I thought njohnston had kinda claimed that one in discussions.. | 14:10 |
| evrardjp | weren't this one assigned to two people already? | 14:11 |
| diablo_rojo | but I could be misremembering | 14:11 |
| evrardjp | like njohnston and I? | 14:11 |
| evrardjp | :D | 14:11 |
| mnaser | o | 14:11 |
| diablo_rojo | evrardjp, lol | 14:11 |
| evrardjp | not saying this because we have a meeting on this just _after_ this meeting . | 14:11 |
| mnaser | based on the mailing list post, it mentinoed that we need to find an action owner but no follow up email there saying that they have :) | 14:11 |
| mnaser | #undo | 14:11 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #action mnaser to find owner to start using facing API pop-up team over ML | 14:11 |
| evrardjp | I meant I will chat with Nate | 14:11 |
| gmann | o/ | 14:12 |
| gmann | sorry for late | 14:12 |
| mnaser | #action evrardjp & njohnston to start writing resolution about how deconstructed PTL role | 14:12 |
| evrardjp | mnaser: I think you undoed the wrong one | 14:12 |
| mnaser | sidfhkl;dfgghfjdkgh | 14:12 |
| evrardjp | nice password | 14:12 |
| mnaser | its "monday" for me because yesterday was a day off :) | 14:12 |
| diablo_rojo | Its a rough day. | 14:12 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser to find owner to start using facing API pop-up team over ML | 14:12 |
| mnaser | i think we're good now | 14:12 |
| evrardjp | :) | 14:12 |
| mnaser | cool, next item: Update Goal Selection docs to explain that one or more goals is fine; it doesn’t have to be more than one | 14:13 |
| mnaser | now this one i'm pretty sure i havent seen a change merge about that one =P | 14:13 |
| mnaser | i guess we need to find an owner for that one too, righT? | 14:14 |
| gmann | i can do that | 14:14 |
| mnaser | gmann: awesome. thank you. | 14:14 |
| mnaser | #action gmann update goal selection docs to clarify the goal count | 14:15 |
| mnaser | next up is "Two volunteers to start the W goal selection process". we can maybe keep that until the following topic? | 14:15 |
| mnaser | the next topic is "W cycle goal selection start" so perhaps its logical we discuss that potential action item there | 14:16 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:16 |
| mnaser | i take the silence as a yes | 14:17 |
| mnaser | next up was Assign two TC liaisons per project | 14:17 |
| diablo_rojo | I thiiink we had volunteers for this during the PTG too | 14:17 |
| mnaser | mugsie: took care of it here https://review.opendev.org/#/c/735667/ | 14:17 |
| mnaser | so i think that's closed :> | 14:18 |
| gmann | yeah | 14:18 |
| mnaser | and then finally.... " Review Tags to make sure they are still good for driving common behavior across all openstack projects" | 14:18 |
| diablo_rojo | We've had some new tags proposed so thats been good. | 14:19 |
| gmann | api-interoperability tags is also one which we need more work as only nova has that tag and also we do not have a strong policy/guide around what API are interop. | 14:20 |
| gmann | "tc:approved-release" can be removed after manila applying for this tag is merged. | 14:20 |
| mnaser | perhaps what we need is to find an interested group and start working/having that conversation? | 14:21 |
| gmann | yeah | 14:21 |
| ricolin | gmann, +1 | 14:21 |
| mnaser | (as much as i disagree with the 'policy' but we've historically said, meeting are for updates, not for discussions.. but i dont agree with this) | 14:21 |
| mnaser | okay so | 14:21 |
| mnaser | maybe starting an ml list discussion to gather interested parties to start that discussion | 14:21 |
| mnaser | anyone wanna volunteer, if not, i'll throw something on the ML to cover other tc members too | 14:21 |
| gmann | for tag things right? | 14:22 |
| mnaser | yeah | 14:22 |
| gmann | I can start checking those and start some discussion over ML one by one, some might end up or need pop-up etc. | 14:22 |
| gmann | api-interoperability tag was anyways in my list | 14:23 |
| mnaser | yeah, this is going to be something that needs to be discussion driven | 14:23 |
| gmann | yeah | 14:23 |
| mnaser | #topic gmann start discussion around reviewing current tags | 14:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gmann start discussion around reviewing current tags (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:23 | |
| mnaser | #undo | 14:23 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #topic gmann start discussion around reviewing current tags | 14:23 |
| mnaser | ok seriously | 14:23 |
| mnaser | #action gmann start discussion around reviewing currenet tags | 14:23 |
| mnaser | alright, we're done with those | 14:24 |
| mnaser | shall we move onto the few listed topics? | 14:24 |
| jungleboyj | ++ ? | 14:25 |
| gmann | this one covered - 'Propose a change to implement a weekly meeting' ? | 14:25 |
| diablo_rojo | Yes, lets. | 14:25 |
| mnaser | gmann: go for it. i'll support this 100% | 14:26 |
| mnaser | heck, i'll do it. | 14:26 |
| mnaser | #action mnaser propose change to implement weekly meetings | 14:26 |
| gmann | yeah that is what we discussed in PTG. propose. thanlks | 14:26 |
| gmann | thanks | 14:26 |
| mnaser | cool | 14:26 |
| mnaser | #topic OpenStack Foundation OSU Intern Project (diablo_rojo) | 14:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Foundation OSU Intern Project (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:26 | |
| * mnaser hands mic to diablo_rojo | 14:27 | |
| * jungleboyj hears feedback | 14:27 | |
| *** ijolliffe has joined #openstack-tc | 14:27 | |
| diablo_rojo | So! Basically the tldr is that the FOundation can fund an intern at OSU next year like we did this last year | 14:27 |
| evrardjp | \o/ | 14:27 |
| jungleboyj | Cool. | 14:27 |
| diablo_rojo | I wondered if the TC had any preferences on what project we want them to work on. | 14:27 |
| ricolin | super! | 14:28 |
| evrardjp | community goals? | 14:28 |
| diablo_rojo | This last year it was Glance. | 14:28 |
| mnaser | ouu, interesting. | 14:28 |
| diablo_rojo | evrardjp, that might be a little much.. | 14:28 |
| gmann | upstream opportunities ? | 14:28 |
| diablo_rojo | They only work part time for the school year. | 14:28 |
| diablo_rojo | Also they are going to need a fair amount of mentorship. | 14:28 |
| gmann | or i will say osc thing can be good candidate also | 14:28 |
| evrardjp | I thought of the osc bit, but I was afraid it would be too complex/political | 14:29 |
| diablo_rojo | gmann, yeah I was thinking about that since there are others around to help. | 14:29 |
| mnaser | diablo_rojo: you're pretty involved in terms of first contact sig and upstream institute. what are your thoughts on good starter places that we can have success at? | 14:29 |
| evrardjp | but I might be wrong | 14:29 |
| diablo_rojo | but I share evrardjp's concern about it being too political | 14:29 |
| gmann | evrardjp: there will be people for to handle those things :) and inter to just code what we need | 14:29 |
| evrardjp | why not proposing a list of topics for next time? | 14:29 |
| evrardjp | Discuss this over the ML | 14:30 |
| diablo_rojo | Well last year it was a decision between Glance and Designate and we went with Glance because we were trying to get grant money for a second student for Designate. | 14:30 |
| evrardjp | I can't find a proper topic right now that's good for the whole openstack without discriminating a project or another :) | 14:30 |
| mnaser | personally, i support perhaps first contact sig to come up with a few items that we can discuss | 14:30 |
| evrardjp | mnaser: good idea | 14:30 |
| gmann | yeah that's fair. +1 | 14:30 |
| diablo_rojo | Not looking for a decision just suggestions/to make people aware. | 14:30 |
| diablo_rojo | I was also planning on the ML post. | 14:31 |
| evrardjp | oh ok | 14:31 |
| evrardjp | perfect then! :) | 14:31 |
| jungleboyj | Makes sense. | 14:31 |
| diablo_rojo | This week has just gotten away from me with opendev and the oss | 14:31 |
| mnaser | ++ perfect. i guess we're all completely aligned up | 14:31 |
| gmann | we can discuss and find the feasible and starter work in FC SIG and then propose to TC | 14:31 |
| diablo_rojo | If anyone had suggestions now, call them out :) Otherwise we can move on and discuss more later. | 14:31 |
| evrardjp | thanks diablo_rojo to liaise on this :) | 14:31 |
| mnaser | i think docs could be interesting too | 14:31 |
| diablo_rojo | Well the TC doesn't technically approve the choice.. the foundation does since they hold the purse strings, but I wanted to get input from everyone. | 14:32 |
| mnaser | depending on their interests, that could be a high impact thing. but anyways | 14:32 |
| jungleboyj | I do like the OSC idea as well. | 14:32 |
| mnaser | oh, potentially horizon. there was some concerning comments the other day in the thread i started about patternfly | 14:33 |
| diablo_rojo | mnaser, true, would just need some more specific direction on docs as there are many.. and another mentor to help supplement me. | 14:33 |
| gmann | true but we should not ignore most help-needed things like osc or upstream-investment-opportunities | 14:33 |
| gmann | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/upstream-investment-opportunities/2020/index.html | 14:33 |
| ricolin | +1 on OSC too | 14:33 |
| mnaser | aka: "horizon is just dying and it's barely surviving, it's in maintenance mode and it's almost impossible to get out of the hole we're in" type of thing | 14:33 |
| gmann | then going with easy work which is not on the priority | 14:33 |
| diablo_rojo | horizon could be good too. | 14:33 |
| njohnston | +1 for Horizon I feel that we have a critical deficit in JS expertise, I just worry that the time horizon for the changes that need to be made is far beyond what an internship cal allow for | 14:33 |
| njohnston | *can | 14:34 |
| evrardjp | agreed with njohnston | 14:34 |
| diablo_rojo | Yeah, Keeping in mind its a part time student for the school year. | 14:34 |
| mnaser | #action diablo_rojo start discussion on ML around potential items for OSF funded intern | 14:34 |
| evrardjp | maybe we can remove all the js from the interface? :p | 14:34 |
| diablo_rojo | I can present like two options to the OSU staff that is looking for a student and let them chose. | 14:34 |
| mnaser | evrardjp: >:( | 14:34 |
| diablo_rojo | lol | 14:35 |
| njohnston | python in the browser | 14:35 |
| evrardjp | webasm | 14:35 |
| evrardjp | lol | 14:35 |
| evrardjp | I should stop doing jokes like that. | 14:35 |
| gmann | :) | 14:35 |
| mnaser | evrardjp: there's 'openstack' cli for that, type it once and you have a js-less ui :) | 14:35 |
| mnaser | okey, cool | 14:35 |
| mnaser | next up | 14:35 |
| mnaser | #topic W cycle goal selection start | 14:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "W cycle goal selection start (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:36 | |
| mnaser | anyone wanna provide context for this? :> | 14:36 |
| gmann | i added this to start the W cycle goal work as we are late as per goal schedule | 14:36 |
| gmann | we discussed this in PTG and got two volunteer, if i am not wrong, njohnston and mugsie ? | 14:37 |
| gmann | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/#goal-selection-schedule | 14:37 |
| gmann | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/#goal-selection-schedule | 14:37 |
| mnaser | why don't we just make patches that move all the listed goals from proposed/ to cycle/ (each one an individual patch) and have tc members vote there? | 14:37 |
| njohnston | yes, so the idea is that mugsie and I will review the candidates for cycle goal, and try to groom the backlog | 14:38 |
| gmann | yeah, that is one option. rootwrap is already there and having one also good. | 14:38 |
| njohnston | and try to look forward and identify if we have another focal-style goal that might be coming | 14:38 |
| gmann | njohnston: +1, that is good thing to check. | 14:39 |
| njohnston | So mugsie, perhaps we can meet next week and chat about this? | 14:40 |
| mnaser | i dont think they're around but perhaps that can be an action item? | 14:40 |
| njohnston | +1 | 14:41 |
| mnaser | #topic njohnston and mugsie to work on getting goals groomed/proposed for W cycle | 14:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "njohnston and mugsie to work on getting goals groomed/proposed for W cycle (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:42 | |
| fungi | one thing that has worked in the past is patches proposing different combinations of goals. it's hard to sort out which set is popular | 14:42 |
| mnaser | ok. | 14:42 |
| mnaser | #undo | 14:42 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #topic njohnston and mugsie to work on getting goals groomed/proposed for W cycle | 14:42 |
| mnaser | #action njohnston and mugsie to work on getting goals groomed/proposed for W cycle | 14:42 |
| mnaser | fungi: ah, yes, that's a really neat thing too | 14:42 |
| ricolin | agree on vote first. We can vote on to have few pre-selected goals, then have volunteers to check on the possibility | 14:43 |
| fungi | if you have 10 proposed goals and only room for 3, it's tough to tell from votes on individual per-goal proposals which three to select | 14:43 |
| mnaser | very true | 14:43 |
| njohnston | The other consideration is: how much bandwidth does the community have for a goal? | 14:43 |
| gmann | yeah, that is imp and i feel we should only select 'what is actually needed' | 14:44 |
| mnaser | i think that's the question that you might have to ask around to gather :) | 14:44 |
| fungi | and not all goals are going to require the same amount of effort | 14:44 |
| ricolin | njohnston, for W-goal at current stage, we only need one volunteer to do pre-survey | 14:44 |
| fungi | depending on the goals you pick, one complex one might require the same amount of community effort as three minor ones | 14:45 |
| gmann | doing priority item even slow pace is good things to do instead of burning low priority things first | 14:45 |
| mnaser | we could leave this discussion to spill over into office hours | 14:46 |
| mnaser | any other things to update on this last topic? | 14:46 |
| njohnston | nothing from me at this point | 14:48 |
| mnaser | #topic Completion of retirement cleanup (gmann) | 14:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Completion of retirement cleanup (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 14:48 | |
| mnaser | so, i'll update a bit also on my side | 14:48 |
| mnaser | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-retirement-cleanup is a scratch pad, nothing pushed out towards the community | 14:48 |
| mnaser | with the help of fungi, retired.config means that now tc members can force merge patches to retired repos, so we could technically clean things up if we want to | 14:49 |
| mnaser | the goal was to find a way to be able to make sure our projects are all properly retired (and that's with the help of a ci job) | 14:50 |
| gmann | +1, thanks that is good move. | 14:50 |
| mnaser | it's obviously currently failing: https://review.opendev.org/#/c/737559/ but once we (hopefully) clear all that stuff out, we won't have it happen again | 14:50 |
| njohnston | +1 good improvement | 14:50 |
| mnaser | gmann: has done a lot of the work on retiring stuff with help of AJaeger and smcginnis, so thanks there | 14:52 |
| gmann | one thing to share, especially to do all cleanup asap | 14:52 |
| mnaser | we'll continue to move forward with the work and hopefully normalize all of it | 14:53 |
| mnaser | there's one quirk which is some people expressed that its not long HEAD~1 if we push a commit that fixes the tip.. | 14:53 |
| mnaser | (aka HEAD~1 doesn't contain the original code) | 14:53 |
| mnaser | honestly, i think that's a bit of a detail and i (sadly) feel like most of the code probably won't be touched again anyways | 14:54 |
| gmann | yeah, that is what networking-l2gw facing | 14:54 |
| AJaeger | mnaser: so, update the README when you push something to reference HEAD~2 | 14:54 |
| gmann | while doing networking-l2gw retirement, we found we have an active team for this project and it is not easy/good thing for them to move to new namespace. | 14:54 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: mnaser or even to reference a specific sha | 14:54 |
| clarkb | then it won't change over time | 14:54 |
| gmann | we missed that during our transition of namespace things but doing it now is really disturbing the development for such active but not openstack-govern projects | 14:54 |
| mnaser | gmann: also, an example of that is python-dracclient too | 14:54 |
| gmann | yeah. | 14:55 |
| mnaser | formerly ironic, currently inside openstack/ namespace, but actively developed | 14:55 |
| gmann | we should cleanup asap to avoid such a situation again. | 14:55 |
| mnaser | so we need to clean house, so help is really welcome in this | 14:55 |
| gmann | +1 | 14:55 |
| gmann | networking-l2gw is in-process with AJaeger help. | 14:56 |
| gmann | i can help on few of other next week. | 14:56 |
| gmann | but more volunteer and finishing it in one shot will be good. | 14:56 |
| mnaser | i will try and help with this | 14:59 |
| mnaser | #action tc and co to help finish properly and cleanly retiring projects | 14:59 |
| gmann | thanks | 14:59 |
| mnaser | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 2 14:59:51 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-07-02-14.00.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-07-02-14.00.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2020/tc.2020-07-02-14.00.log.html | 14:59 |
| evrardjp | thanks everyone | 14:59 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks. | 15:00 |
| gmann | thanks everyone | 15:00 |
| diablo_rojo | Thanks! | 15:01 |
| *** belmore__ has quit IRC | 15:08 | |
| *** yoctozepto2 has joined #openstack-tc | 15:13 | |
| mnaser | ok so | 15:13 |
| mnaser | office hours anyone? | 15:13 |
| * mnaser had to go get some coffee if you couldn't tell | 15:13 | |
| mnaser | i def needed it | 15:13 |
| mnaser | i feel like the overall tc activity has really slowed and quieted down these days | 15:14 |
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| mnaser | we had one _kinda_ active office hour | 15:14 |
| mnaser | and now i feel like it's just very.. quiet | 15:14 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:14 |
| gmann | true. | 15:14 |
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| mnaser | in terms of review and merging though, we've definetly been quick | 15:15 |
| mnaser | but it sounds like the office hour has become something that sits ignored in calendars. how can we improve? | 15:15 |
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| mnaser | it's also one of those things where it needs to be a group effort to 'revive' it | 15:18 |
| mnaser | eventually those who show up and nothing happens will also stop showing up because nothing happens | 15:18 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:18 |
| gmann | we definitely need some agenda driven office hour. | 15:18 |
| mnaser | sounds like a meeting to me | 15:19 |
| mnaser | which i don't mind | 15:19 |
| mnaser | all of our project teams have those | 15:19 |
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| gmann | yeah | 15:19 |
| ricolin | some agenda for `discussion` can happen sounds something we can try on | 15:19 |
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| gmann | qa has weekly office hour which cover two part 1. status checks 2. technical discussion/bug triage | 15:20 |
| diablo_rojo__ | I think we keep forgetting what the original goal for office hours was | 15:21 |
| diablo_rojo__ | If we want to meet more, fine, but office hours were meant as a designated time for the community to come chat to us | 15:21 |
| diablo_rojo__ | Maybe if they knew who would be present at what office hours? | 15:21 |
| gmann | which did not happen | 15:21 |
| diablo_rojo__ | Like a sign up | 15:21 |
| diablo_rojo__ | or maybe we need to shift the times for them? I know the current set doesn't fit super well for my schedule | 15:22 |
| gmann | not much community member driven things for long time | 15:22 |
| mnaser | i don't think we've managed to have a successful office hour between _us_ | 15:22 |
| diablo_rojo__ | The maybe we can get away with less office hours, or like I said, change the time of them. | 15:22 |
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| mnaser | i mean, maybe if we had people show up to them. i know in the past, tc office hours would spark interesting discussion and the community would jump along with commentary | 15:24 |
| fungi | community members who happen to lurk in the channel anyway | 15:25 |
| mnaser | right | 15:25 |
| diablo_rojo | I would be curious to know which TC members are around for each office hour. See if they are still good times for the current members. | 15:25 |
| diablo_rojo | Since they were set a while ago and we've gotten a lot of new blood since then. | 15:26 |
| diablo_rojo | (myself included) | 15:26 |
| mnaser | that's valid | 15:26 |
| diablo_rojo | If the new times don't spark anything then we could try having like.. a topic of the week or something. | 15:27 |
| diablo_rojo | I dont think we should have a whole agenda for them | 15:27 |
| diablo_rojo | Because thats not why they were created. | 15:27 |
| fungi | there are currently 106 nicks visible in here, compared to 231 in the (now mostly unused) #openstack-infra channel, 294 in #openstack and 193 in #openstack-dev | 15:27 |
| diablo_rojo | WE could invite the community to suggest topics. | 15:27 |
| * ricolin wounder will office hours means different after TC and UC merged | 15:27 | |
| njohnston | I will say that only once or twice in the last 6 months has there been a lot of activity in the tuesday 0900 UTC office hours slot | 15:27 |
| fungi | maybe holding office hours in a different channel would make more sense? | 15:27 |
| diablo_rojo | ricolin, I would think not? Perhaps just different topics. | 15:28 |
| evrardjp | wow | 15:28 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, thats an option too | 15:28 |
| evrardjp | much scrollback | 15:28 |
| mnaser | i mean | 15:30 |
| mnaser | i say there's two problems here | 15:30 |
| mnaser | one: tc attendance to office hours, two: community engagement | 15:30 |
| gmann | i feel problem here is to get topic to discuss between TC and obviously those will be community-wanted one. and we have lot of things to improve in openstack. | 15:30 |
| mnaser | i'm trying to solve #1, because i don't think much people show up to the office hours first | 15:30 |
| gmann | if we have topic then we have attendance also | 15:31 |
| diablo_rojo | mnaser, if you're trying to solve 1; I propose we look at new time and document who is actually (typically) around during each office hour | 15:31 |
| mnaser | ok, fair | 15:32 |
| mnaser | anyone has ideas how to figure out the best way to coordinate this | 15:32 |
| diablo_rojo | Could make a doodle poll to find three slots that work for TC people. If there are multiple options, have the community decide. Then we can promote the new times with who will actually be around at that time and see what happens. | 15:32 |
| gmann | if we have topic/things to discuss/solve by TC per week/month then we attract more TC and community member to participate there | 15:32 |
| gmann | without 'what we are going to do in office hour it is always ignore/low priority thing' | 15:33 |
| evrardjp | diablo_rojo: framadate, framadate! But I like the idea | 15:33 |
| gmann | we call it meeting/office hour or whatever new name :) | 15:33 |
| diablo_rojo | evrardjp, I don't care the tool :) I use 'doodle' like 'kleenex' | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | I think it's fair to ask the TC members after each election if they are still okay with the time of the meetings/office hours tbh | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | this way we ensure the presence on those events | 15:34 |
| njohnston | Here's a different way to approach the problem. What if we rebranded the TC meeting as an "all-OpenStack meeting" with the office hours after that as "community feedback and discussion on the all-OpenStack meeting"? The current formulation as a TC meeting makes it sound like the TC is just another project in the OpenStack ecosystem, but what we are talking about here is community-wide topics. Everyone is alre | 15:35 |
| njohnston | ady invited to this meeting, so let's rename it and more actively invite everyone in, and that will spill over into the office hours for open discussion on what those community members want. | 15:35 |
| diablo_rojo | njohnston, I think thats kind of how it is in my head already lol but we can definitely promote that better. | 15:36 |
| evrardjp | mnaser: so interesting problem for #1: The more you have meetings that are syncronous, the more conflict you will reach. In my case, there are plenty of people that love to put conflicts in my agenda during office hours. Yet, I am present as much as I can during those times. Even if I don't say much. | 15:36 |
| njohnston | Maybe I am a naive idealist but I would like to believe that would be a positive self-reinforcing cycle | 15:36 |
| diablo_rojo | ...but also pick new office hour times lol | 15:36 |
| fungi | njohnston: perhaps even more relevant now with the uc being folded into the tc | 15:36 |
| evrardjp | njohnston: I like your rebranding | 15:36 |
| njohnston | and hold it in #openstack | 15:36 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, good point | 15:37 |
| ricolin | njohnston, sounds like make it a topic discussion event instead of an office hour?:) | 15:37 |
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| evrardjp | fungi: we used to have that mandatory meeting with bylaws , right? Is it still the case now? | 15:37 |
| evrardjp | (I mean with events fluctuating, that's not really something I would rather rely on, to be in line with the bylaws requirements) | 15:38 |
| fungi | evrardjp: as long as something/someone records a quorum of tc members present at the same time at least twice a year, the bylaws requirements are met | 15:38 |
| * jungleboyj caught up. | 15:38 | |
| mnaser | i really dont want us to like hold a massive rebrand project of office hours before we have people show up | 15:38 |
| fungi | (changed from quarterly ni the last bylaws update) | 15:38 |
| jungleboyj | So, I am fine with re-addressing the times. | 15:38 |
| gmann | does our current different TZ three office hours cover all TC members present. those Time cover almost all the TZ | 15:38 |
| mnaser | like, lets figure out the time first and solve that. let's get people in. and then we can work on engagement | 15:38 |
| diablo_rojo | mnaser, we might need to to get people to show up, but I still think step 1 is new times | 15:38 |
| jungleboyj | Also think that rebranding is a good idea. Don't think setting an agenda is what we need to do. | 15:38 |
| evrardjp | fungi: thanks for the clarification. So we don't need to call it "TC meeting" . As long as the scope is clear. | 15:38 |
| mnaser | yes, agreed wth diablo_rojo | 15:38 |
| gmann | if we TC members are distributed in all three TZ office hour then re-time make sense | 15:38 |
| evrardjp | agreed with diablo_rojo | 15:39 |
| fungi | evrardjp: it can be called whatever you want to call it, as long as you also consider it a meeting of the tc, i think | 15:39 |
| diablo_rojo | Step 1. New times. Step 2. Rebrand/move channels to get more engagement + support UC/TC merge. | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | yes that would have to be written in governance I guess | 15:39 |
| diablo_rojo | Step 3. Profit. | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | Profit? | 15:39 |
| jungleboyj | Profit! | 15:39 |
| fungi | "4. Meetings of Technical Committee. The Technical Committee shall meet at least twice per calendar year." https://www.openstack.org/legal/technical-committee-member-policy/ | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | Damn, did I chose the wrong employer? | 15:39 |
| diablo_rojo | evrardjp, lol have you not seen all those memes? | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | I did. I am making jokes. | 15:40 |
| fungi | so long as you can come up with some argument that the tc has "met" twice during the year, bylaws requirements are satisfied | 15:40 |
| diablo_rojo | evrardjp, well.. with your meeting schedule.. maybe ;) | 15:40 |
| evrardjp | to lighten the mood | 15:40 |
| gmann | I still feel without topic-driven approach how it make difference ? | 15:40 |
| evrardjp | diablo_rojo: haha | 15:40 |
| evrardjp | gmann: maybe the rebranding of the event will encourage people to bring topics for those meetings | 15:41 |
| diablo_rojo | and office hours | 15:41 |
| diablo_rojo | or discussion times | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | and office hours :) | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | yes | 15:41 |
| diablo_rojo | or whatever the hell you want to call them | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | haha :) | 15:41 |
| gmann | humm not sure, but why we cannot bring topic? | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | I never said that | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | maybe I wrongly parsed the conversation | 15:42 |
| diablo_rojo | you can bring topics I just dont think you should set an agenda | 15:42 |
| gmann | i mean TC prepare the topic/things to work from TC perspective which are priority things like user facing etc and start discussion | 15:42 |
| evrardjp | I think it's good that we speak to each other, but I don't want the US folks to not be able to react because they have missed a convo that was happening during EMEA daytime hours | 15:43 |
| gmann | 'so its like 1 topic to finish in a week/month' as TC mandatory work to do. | 15:43 |
| diablo_rojo | gmann, if its all TC driven then that ignores the reason why office hours are a thing in the first place? | 15:43 |
| jungleboyj | Have a backlog of topics to pull from if no one brings topics? | 15:44 |
| gmann | i agree but we do not have community driven things or community-wanted topic. that is reality | 15:44 |
| evrardjp | If it pleases the people, we can continue office hours the way it is right now, and have more frequent tc meetings (instead of once a month, once a week) | 15:44 |
| njohnston | I feel like an agenda is a way to make sure that all the topics get enough time, and if there is a long-winded discussion about something it can be timeboxed. But I think "Open agenda" time would always be a thing, and sometimes it would be the only thing. | 15:44 |
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| evrardjp | I am not sure I could assign that time, but maybe some other people will | 15:44 |
| evrardjp | timeslot* | 15:44 |
| gmann | njohnston: exactly, we can have open time always | 15:44 |
| diablo_rojo | As I said at the PTG, whatever gets discussed in the channel (during office hours or otherwise) should ALWAYS be summarized to the ML to get wider community view (and make sure all TC members saw it even if they werent online) | 15:44 |
| ricolin | gmann, I sand with your idea, but what will be different between an office hour with topic and a ML with topic? | 15:45 |
| gmann | diablo_rojo: those are all very fair and valid point, but problem here is we are not able to meet or collect topic to discuss so that is why office hour are not active | 15:45 |
| gmann | ricolin: yeah, anything we call it i am ok :) but my main idea is let's 'collect what we will discuss and then attract more audiance' | 15:46 |
| diablo_rojo | Office hours aren't active because TC members don't really show up (I am guilty of this) and because the community doesn't bring things up. | 15:47 |
| gmann | otherwise we are like 'we are here to help on anything you want' but nobody comes to us | 15:47 |
| diablo_rojo | Lets solve the first problem. | 15:47 |
| diablo_rojo | Then focus on the second. | 15:47 |
| mnaser | ok so i still wonder | 15:47 |
| mnaser | should i make a doodle that spans across an entire week to find the right time? | 15:48 |
| ricolin | gmann, yeah, anyway we can driving important topic forward is what we should do. just try to figure out what will be the best way to do that:) | 15:48 |
| gmann | and right time for all three office hour? i | 15:48 |
| diablo_rojo | mnaser, yeah. | 15:48 |
| jungleboyj | I don't think that would hurt. | 15:48 |
| ricolin | mnaser, +1 | 15:48 |
| diablo_rojo | I think we start there. | 15:48 |
| fungi | i'd say given the opint of office hours was to provide a time when anyone in the community could bring something up they wanted to discuss in irc with multiple tc members, the real failure has been the community either having nothing they wanted the tc's input on in irc or not feeling like or knowing that they could do that | 15:48 |
| gmann | ricolin: take one topic at a time which we should fix on priority like osc or better-api, tag enforcement etc etc | 15:49 |
| * ricolin thinking a video conference for important issue discussion:) | 15:49 | |
| gmann | ricolin: like something SIG wanted from us or users feedback etc. | 15:49 |
| fungi | *or* it just might be that there are a sufficient number of tc members present in this channel at arbitrary times that when community members want to bend someone's ear they can without it needing to be a specially scheduled timeslot | 15:49 |
| mnaser | i mean, i'm certainly happy we got a discussion going on this time. and w ehad a few (albeit, former tc members) community members chime in | 15:50 |
| mnaser | that's a W | 15:50 |
| fungi | regardless, the idea behind office hours was to get strengthen the tc's relationship with the community which has elected it to represent them, and i don't feel like it has accomplished that goal yet | 15:50 |
| fungi | so i agree, some changes to office hours are warranted (or just giving up on them as a nice idea but one which turned out not to have the intended effect) | 15:51 |
| gmann | IMO(it might be just me) in current situation, the community is less motivated towards TC driven-things because 'we do not meet regularly' is one thing and 'we are not collectively marketing the topic to solve per timeframe'. | 15:52 |
| evrardjp | fungi: agreed | 15:52 |
| ricolin | agree | 15:52 |
| diablo_rojo | I am taking the action item to find new times and document somewhere which TC members are normally there. | 15:53 |
| ricolin | With topic, we can ask people (who might be required or share interest) to join, so we can actually have productive discussion | 15:53 |
| gmann | For example, if we have weekly/monthly theme/topic say 'TC drive xyz-from SIG/user feedback' then we can motivate the community too | 15:54 |
| gmann | ricolin: exactly | 15:54 |
| ricolin | gmann, so I'm definitely onboard to have topic (was wondering if it should be even more, like an audio conference or video) | 15:54 |
| ricolin | actually still wondering:) | 15:54 |
| gmann | ricolin: yeah that is good idea, whatever ok for me TC/community we can do. audio/video is always my preference than chat :) | 15:55 |
| gmann | * whatever ok for TC/community we can do | 15:55 |
| fungi | do please try to provide a text summary, meeting minutes, something readable since there wouldn't be a transcript | 15:56 |
| gmann | osc is great example of 'openstack still did not solve for users which is one of most imp things wanted by user' and i feel TC is what can contribute more in that. active-fast-priority-solvable things for community as pop-up team or goal etc | 15:56 |
| gmann | fungi: +1, if audio/video then yes MoM is much needed | 15:57 |
| mnaser | depending on how people feel, some tools do a really good job of transcription | 15:57 |
| jungleboyj | Also remember we have a growing population of people in AMEA that may be much less comfortable with audio/video. | 15:58 |
| jungleboyj | We had that challenge with several people during our Cinder mid-cycle. | 15:59 |
| fungi | so, like, feed the recording into a transcription tool? or is the only option to use a conference platform which performs on the fly transcription? | 15:59 |
| fungi | jungleboyj: emea? | 15:59 |
| mnaser | fungi: its not the only option, im saying, its an idea :-) | 15:59 |
| gmann | if we try theme/topic base work by TC and with exact timeframe basis then we can burn lot of things. | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: Sorry EMEA Yes. | 16:00 |
| fungi | mnaser: sure, i was more wondering like do you happen to know of solutions which can transcribe a recording | 16:00 |
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| mnaser | fungi: you're not gonna like the only one i know =P | 16:00 |
| fungi | without having to also be the source of the recording | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | Ugh, not EMEA, Asia ... | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | Sorry, too many thoughts in my head today. | 16:01 |
| fungi | jungleboyj: so apac | 16:01 |
| fungi | mnaser: because then you could have the call on any platform you like so long as you have a recording | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | Yes. Thank you. | 16:01 |
| ricolin | I think we doing a good job to update videos to youtube, so subtitle can be auto generated:) | 16:01 |
| fungi | oh, youtube added auto-sibtitling features? neat | 16:02 |
| fungi | er, auto-subtitling | 16:02 |
| clarkb | it doesn't work very well | 16:03 |
| clarkb | its the classic speech to text transcription problem | 16:03 |
| ricolin | clarkb, agree with that, but at least it works a bit:) | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | Cool. I didn't know it could do that. I will start doing that for the Cinder videos. | 16:04 |
| fungi | it might make for a good starting point though, then you can retrieve, edit and reupload the subtitle file | 16:06 |
| mnaser | i'll be working on a doodle thingamajig | 16:06 |
| diablo_rojo | mnaser, you want to do it? I had volunteered higher in scrollback but we can work together if you want. | 16:11 |
| mnaser | diablo_rojo: oh oops, i've mostly started adding the timeblocks in doodle. i can share that with you if you wanna send it out to the mL with context? | 16:11 |
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| diablo_rojo | mnaser, sounds good | 16:21 |
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| mnaser | diablo_rojo: please ignore the title of it :) https://doodle.com/poll/q27t8pucq7b8xbme | 16:54 |
| fungi | (as everyone goes to look at the title to see why it should be ignored) | 16:57 |
| jeremyfreudberg | yeah, "please ignore" is even getting the attention of lurkers... | 17:06 |
| mnaser | tactical bait ;) | 17:24 |
| diablo_rojo | Oh man its like how I always get sucked into patches with DNM in the title | 17:27 |
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| diablo_rojo | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-weekly-emails | 17:57 |
| diablo_rojo | Lol didn't mean to send that here, but if anyone wants to help compile things, go for it. | 17:58 |
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| fungi | seems entirely on topic | 18:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Update goal selection docs to clarify the goal count https://review.opendev.org/739150 | 21:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Update goal selection docs to clarify the goal count https://review.opendev.org/739150 | 21:41 |
| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Update goal selection docs to clarify the goal count https://review.opendev.org/739150 | 21:41 |
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