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| gmann | mnaser: thanks | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| mnaser | gmann: np, thanks for pushing a bunch on this | 00:08 |
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| gmann | mnaser: voted for https://review.opendev.org/#/c/735667/1 | 00:09 |
| mnaser | gmann: ty, landde | 00:10 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Assign TC Liasons for the Victoria Cycle https://review.opendev.org/735667 | 00:16 |
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| AJaeger | gmann, fungi, I pushed https://review.opendev.org/735776 to redirect /latest for retired repos as discussed | 06:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack/governance master: Remove tricircle project team https://review.opendev.org/731566 | 06:45 |
| AJaeger | gmann: resolved merge conflict ^ | 06:45 |
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| ttx | mnaser: re: https://review.opendev.org/#/c/734648/4 we can work around it, it's just "cleaner" if we have it before the milestone (Thursday) | 08:40 |
| ttx | but I see now that it's in. | 08:40 |
| ttx | so that leaves https://review.opendev.org/731566 | 08:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Slawek Kaplonski proposed openstack/governance master: Retire neutron-fwaas and neutron-fwaas-dashboard from openstack/ https://review.opendev.org/735828 | 09:24 |
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| ttx | tc-members: we'll have an OSF community newsletter published this week. Please add to https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/newsletter-openstack-news if there is anythign you;d like mentioned for OpenStack | 09:29 |
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| mugsie | tc-members: we now have our liasons assigned - have a look here for yours: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/tc-liaisons.html | 09:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update repo retirement instructions https://review.opendev.org/735843 | 09:50 |
| AJaeger | This change came from the paunch deprecation ^ | 09:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | Slawek Kaplonski proposed openstack/governance master: Deprecatre neutron-fwaas and neutron-fwaas-dashboard master branch https://review.opendev.org/735828 | 10:02 |
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| cloudnull | o/ | 12:59 |
| gmann | o/ | 13:01 |
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| njohnston | o/ | 13:10 |
| gmann | tc-members: need re-vote on this due to rebase - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/731566/ | 13:11 |
| mugsie | gmann: done | 13:13 |
| gmann | thanks | 13:14 |
| AJaeger | fungi, gmann, check https://docs.openstack.org/faafo/latest/random-page - how does that look? | 13:15 |
| fungi | AJaeger: perfect!!! | 13:16 |
| fungi | great work | 13:16 |
| gmann | AJaeger: thanks for that. looks nice | 13:16 |
| AJaeger | ok, will add all the missing repos I identified yesterday and update project-team-guide (see also 735843) for this | 13:17 |
| gmann | AJaeger: +A. | 13:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/project-team-guide master: Update repo retirement instructions https://review.opendev.org/735843 | 13:30 |
| openstackgerrit | Andreas Jaeger proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update repo retirement instructions about docs.o.o https://review.opendev.org/735913 | 13:33 |
| AJaeger | gmann, fungi, here's an explanation ^ | 13:33 |
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| gmann | AJaeger: sure, will hava a look after qa office hour | 13:36 |
| AJaeger | gmann: thanks | 13:38 |
| AJaeger | and https://review.opendev.org/735911 is the followup change for missing retired repos - including dracclient ;) | 13:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/project-team-guide master: Update repo retirement instructions about docs.o.o https://review.opendev.org/735913 | 14:13 |
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| knikolla | o/ | 15:15 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul is being restarted for an urgent configuration change and may be offline for 15-30 minutes. Patches uploaded or approved during that time will need to be rechecked. | 16:39 | |
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| mnaser | tc-members: please vote on https://review.opendev.org/#/c/735361/ :) | 17:14 |
| spotz | Any thoughts on whether we're going to move away from 'master' branch? | 17:38 |
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| fungi | i gather the recommendations in avoiding questionable terminology are regarding using "master" adjacent to "slave" (we don't have "slave" branches, "master" in the git branch name sense is related to terms like "masterwork" or "master recording") | 17:40 |
| fungi | master in that sense is a synonym for "original" | 17:41 |
| fungi | wordnet 3.0 noun definition #6 for "master" is "an original creation (i.e., an audio recording) from which copies can be made" | 17:44 |
| fungi | when you branch from master, you create a copy | 17:44 |
| fungi | https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-knodel-terminology-00.html#rfc.section.1.1 mentions "master-slave" as a problematic term/paradigm, but not "master" in general | 17:46 |
| gmann | what is context? renaming the 'master' word for current development branch? | 17:46 |
| clarkb | there is likely some work to be done to support changing default branches on opendev (non default is not a problem) due to the way git push works with updating HEAD, it doesn't update on push. Since gerrit replication is all done by pushes we'd need toa ccomodate for that some way or another | 17:48 |
| fungi | possibly related to github's announcement last friday that it would rename "master" to "main" over concerns with other (unrelated) definitions of the word: https://www.zdnet.com/article/github-to-replace-master-with-alternative-term-to-avoid-slavery-references/ | 17:48 |
| clarkb | on the gitea side it defaults to a master branch with a readme containign the project description | 17:48 |
| mnaser | fungi: i personally haven't informed myself that much in depth, but there seems to be commentary around the fact that git was using 'master' in the 'master-slave' from https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-May/msg00066.html -- but, this is just something that flew past me. | 17:49 |
| clarkb | zuul supports branch overrides just fine | 17:49 |
| mnaser | there is a long discussion happening there, but i personally haven't followed it | 17:49 |
| gmann | yeah, i am not sure it is worth to do. its just development terminology not any legal doc. | 17:51 |
| gmann | 'main' also not best, it could be 'current' but i think changing 'master' to anything else is confusing and uncomfortable. | 17:52 |
| fungi | mnaser: that's an interesting analysis indeed, suggesting that the "master copy" concept is a retconning of the use of the term in git | 17:54 |
| clarkb | another semi technical thing to consider is that projects like ansible which have had a non master default branch end up being problematic because they end up out of sync with other repos (and so you need manual overrides everywhere). Any switch should likely be to whatever the global default switches to. This means even if you think main is not best, living with it is :) | 17:57 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul is back online; changes uploaded or approved between 16:40 and 18:00 will need to be rechecked. | 18:08 | |
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| fungi | yeah, i think if git upstream switches its default branch name, that'll be a good signal that opendev should as well | 18:09 |
| fungi | but the proper discussion to be having is: git's default branch name is "master" so do we consider that enough of a problem to seek a different revision control solution instead of using git, or work within the git community to change their default? | 18:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Remove tricircle project team https://review.opendev.org/731566 | 18:13 |
| gmann | finally. \o/ | 18:14 |
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| clarkb | for discussions upstream it would also be helpful if git push could update remote HEADs for our replication scenario | 18:20 |
| clarkb | that isn't necessary and there may be good reasons for the current behavior, but having that would likely simplify any transition for people using gerrit replication | 18:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Retire Paunch https://review.opendev.org/734855 | 18:27 |
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| mnaser | gmann: thank you very much for pushing for this | 18:39 |
| mnaser | i hope we can make the process easier now | 18:39 |
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| gmann | mnaser: yeah most of patches are merged now. release one is on gate - https://review.opendev.org/#/q/topic:retire-tricircle+(status:open+OR+status:merged) | 18:46 |
| gmann | ttx: this is good to merge now- https://review.opendev.org/#/c/728922/ | 18:47 |
| fungi | mnaser: following up on the origin of git master branch naming, the person who originally chose the term says it was in the sense of "master copy" (nothing to do with bitkeeper's earlier use of master/slave repositories), but still thinks renaming it to something better is a sensible choice: https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1271477451756056577 | 19:42 |
| fungi | and an interesting side note, github apparently is said to have chosen not to use the term "default" since it could also be seen as offensive: https://lore.kernel.org/git/nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2006091126540.482@ZVAVAG-DN14RQO.ybpnyqbznva/ | 19:42 |
| spotz | Yeah I don't think it's an easy decision just doing my due dillegance from the D&I side in case asked. Not sure if latest is a good option, but at the same time we should follow something that makes sense even if we possibly have to lead in the naming | 19:57 |
| spotz | And I like to cause trouble:) | 19:57 |
| clarkb | I mostly wanted to call out the technical issues because we can probably figure those out before worrying about the actual new name | 19:58 |
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| clarkb | if people are interested in that I'm happy to point at concrete things that need testing and updating to make the functionality real | 19:59 |
| spotz | clarkb: It might be something to keep in mind/document just in case? | 20:00 |
| clarkb | ya a document of technical hurdles would probably be a good place to start | 20:00 |
| * clarkb is currently swamped under a variety of production issues but can try and work on that at some opint | 20:01 | |
| spotz | Thanks Clark, I don't think it's a rush but being prepared I think is good | 20:01 |
| fungi | i do expect it to come up more and more | 20:01 |
| spotz | That's might thought as well fungi which is why I thought I'd start a conversation | 20:02 |
| spotz | might = what I - not sure how I typoed that | 20:02 |
| clarkb | if only git push updated remote HEAD :) then it would be as "easy" as change it in gerrit then fix any broken CI jobs | 20:02 |
| spotz | If there's a large push to change I wouldn't be surprised to see a PR for that | 20:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Slawek Kaplonski proposed openstack/governance master: Deprecatre neutron-fwaas and neutron-fwaas-dashboard master branch https://review.opendev.org/735828 | 20:19 |
| mnaser | i personally welcome change but not at the expense of a burden of our current already-super-overwhelmed teams | 20:22 |
| spotz | Not saying go out and do something just be prepared if we need to | 20:34 |
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