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| ttx | mnaser: on it | 08:51 |
|---|---|---|
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Creating the i18n SIG https://review.opendev.org/721624 | 09:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Cleanup retired repositories https://review.opendev.org/724334 | 09:44 |
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| mnaser | ttx: thank you! | 12:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ian Y. Choi proposed openstack/governance master: Move i18n into a SIG https://review.opendev.org/721605 | 15:09 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Our CI mirrors in OVH BHS1 and GRA1 regions were offline between 12:55 and 14:35 UTC, any failures there due to unreachable mirrors can safely be rechecked | 15:09 | |
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| mnaser | ianychoi_: thanks for the rebase | 16:05 |
| mnaser | tc-members: please run over https://review.opendev.org/#/q/project:openstack/governance+is:open | 16:06 |
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| ianychoi | mnaser, you're welcome :) | 16:09 |
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| gmann | tc-members: we really need to be careful on listing tested distro. testing 5-6 service in devstack does not mean that distro is tested for OpenStack - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/720005/1 | 17:16 |
| gmann | we need to really to improve their testing on each project side first before we continue saying these distro are tested well. and if we do not test then remove them from the list. | 17:17 |
| gmann | otherwise our doc/claim are half-verified things. | 17:18 |
| fungi | gmann: in the past we considered the fact that tripleo runs their full stack tests on centos as satisfying the "it's tested" requirement | 17:18 |
| fungi | there were very long stretches of time where we said centos was "tested" even though devstack didn't work on it at all | 17:19 |
| mnaser | fungi: seems like right now that’s not satisfactory for the tc :/ | 17:19 |
| gmann | but that does not run project functional testing which actually test the code works or not. | 17:19 |
| fungi | got it, so all projects need to add centos-based functional tests (and opensuse-based functional tests, and so on) | 17:20 |
| fungi | that sounds like rather a high bar | 17:20 |
| gmann | true if we want to claim then well tested in upstream | 17:20 |
| gmann | them | 17:20 |
| clarkb | do we say well tested or supported? | 17:21 |
| fungi | cinder says the mellanox driver is tested, even though it's not tested upstream | 17:21 |
| clarkb | iirc we say they are supported which means if we find it broken we'll do our best to fix them? | 17:21 |
| clarkb | not necessarily indicating everything is tested to the same high level | 17:21 |
| gmann | we mention functional testing here - https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/project-testing-interface.html#pti-linux-distros | 17:22 |
| clarkb | (its probably worth identifying the places where distros make a difference then focusing on that) | 17:22 |
| fungi | gmann: i think you're reading that backwards | 17:22 |
| fungi | it says "The following free operating systems are representative of platforms regularly used to deploy OpenStack on [...] Each project should run some functional tests on these platforms" | 17:23 |
| gmann | tested runtime is "officially tested runtimes" | 17:23 |
| fungi | so we're saying these are popular distros, not that we test them. however we do say projects *should* (not *must*) test them | 17:24 |
| gmann | it does not say "supported and might not be tested" | 17:24 |
| gmann | true, that is confusing for me either we can make section of 'tested-well', 'supported-well' distro | 17:24 |
| fungi | it doesn't say we necessarily test on those distros, it says we use what software is included in those distros as an indication of what should be tested | 17:25 |
| gmann | otherwise non-community members or even community members are confused with *should* in testing things but not clear in final tested/supported doc | 17:25 |
| fungi | i agree this wording could be further clarified, but i don't think it's technically incorrect as currently stated | 17:26 |
| gmann | so we can make is clear- "xyz distro is well tested" and "abc distro can work and supported but testing is not guaranteed by upstream". | 17:27 |
| gmann | there is no harm to make it very clear things what we do. | 17:27 |
| gmann | and if any other distro than ubuntu become project side tested then that goes into well-tested catagory | 17:28 |
| fungi | wording should be framed consistent with https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20170620-volunteer-support.html | 17:28 |
| fungi | i also wonder whether it makes sense to run multiple devstack-scale integration test jobs on every change for every popular distribution we track, or to set that as a target/goal. devstack jobs are already one of the largest consumers of our ci resources | 17:31 |
| clarkb | fungi: they are also slow and hard to debug | 17:32 |
| gmann | i think functional job enough not devstack job on project side | 17:32 |
| clarkb | which is probably a bigger issue from a developers viewpoint | 17:32 |
| clarkb | gmann: many/most project functional jobs use devstack (I wish they didn't though) | 17:33 |
| gmann | and devstack , tripleo test the deployment side | 17:33 |
| gmann | but if devstack support is stable then it should not be much issue on project side testing also. and if not then it is clear that we are breaking distro wise | 17:34 |
| fungi | or that nobody's worked on the changes necessary to get/keep devstack working on specific distros | 17:36 |
| gmann | in that case, it is not tested or supported distro :). "it may work but we have not tested" these kind of statements can be more clear if we start doing in our runtime. | 17:39 |
| gmann | i mean distro things are very high things (lot of business are involved on those) so i am saying we needs to be very 100% sure (or clear at least) on their support/testing or not | 17:40 |
| fungi | we don't say it's a tested or supported distro, we precisely say "The following free operating systems are representative of platforms regularly used to deploy OpenStack on" | 17:44 |
| fungi | in fact, i recall the change which added that underwent explicit revisions to remove suggestions that they were tested or supported | 17:45 |
| gmann | yeah, i mean we start saying that and make it more clear. | 17:45 |
| gmann | humm | 17:45 |
| fungi | which leads me to suspect any mention we make of distros will make people want to believe that they're tested and supported | 17:46 |
| fungi | even if we don't say that they are | 17:46 |
| fungi | (because we already don't) | 17:46 |
| gmann | but what is harm saying actual things we do. | 17:47 |
| fungi | this document is guidance for projects as to what they should test (because it's what their users are installing on), not a statement of support for any particular distros | 17:47 |
| fungi | gmann: yuo're asking for us to say what things we don't do. that list is effectively limitless | 17:48 |
| gmann | i am saying our testing runtime things for distro are very confusing. we do not want to say what is not tested or what is tested in those. even that is for proect guideline/suggestion only we still eiher remove distro things from *tested runtime* or list 'what is well tested' and "what is supported but not tested-well" | 17:50 |
| fungi | we already say that because users are installing on this list of distributions, we use what versions of python, nodejs, golang, et cetera those distros ship to determine what projects should test | 17:51 |
| fungi | i agree the guidance there that projects should run functional tests on those platforms could use clarification as to where that responsibility falls, how strict of a requirement it is, and what forms it might take | 17:52 |
| fungi | it does seem too open-ended now, and some people have taken to assuming it means they need to have devstack working on those platforms and to run tests with that on every proposed change | 17:53 |
| fungi | but it has never *actually* meant that, because that's never been true | 17:54 |
| fungi | what's more, https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/pti/python.html doesn't say projects even have to have functional testing | 17:58 |
| fungi | so maybe the easiest thing to do is get rid of or loosen the mention of functional testing in the section on distros | 18:00 |
| fungi | consistent with how openstack has worked so far | 18:01 |
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| mnaser | cloudnull: did you meant to RC+1? | 18:44 |
| mnaser | for https://review.opendev.org/#/c/720005/ | 18:44 |
| mnaser | oh, wes -1 too | 18:44 |
| mnaser | sorry, i got confused | 18:44 |
| mnaser | i thought this patch _added_ centos8, my bad | 18:44 |
| mnaser | ignore me :) | 18:45 |
| mnaser | clarkb: mind blessing https://review.opendev.org/#/c/721621/ with CR+1 if that makes sense to you as the outgoing ptl? | 18:46 |
| clarkb | done | 18:47 |
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| mnaser | cool, +w | 18:49 |
| mnaser | tc-members: landing https://review.opendev.org/#/c/720533/ because it has enough rc+1's based on our house rules. | 18:50 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Cleanup retired repositories https://review.opendev.org/724334 | 19:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add ansible role for managing Luna SA HSM https://review.opendev.org/721348 | 19:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Infrastructure project team is now the TaCT SIG https://review.opendev.org/721621 | 19:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add TrilioVault Charms to OpenStack Charms https://review.opendev.org/720533 | 19:04 |
| mnaser | tc-members: i'd like reviews on the change above. i think its a net positive change. we can totally revert things, but historically we've never had to. the current "sit around and wait for 1 week" hugely just slows things down for no reason when we want to empower our developers to get moving! | 19:06 |
| mnaser | err, gerrit pls | 19:06 |
| jungleboyj | mnaser: ++ | 19:07 |
| mnaser | hmm | 19:08 |
| mnaser | wonder if gerrit is having problems | 19:08 |
| fungi | which change above? gerritbot merged a bunch, you also mentioned one you were approving, and one you asked clarkb to vote on which you then approved | 19:08 |
| mnaser | fungi: im sorry, i hit enter too early and git pull gerrit isn't working for me | 19:08 |
| gmann | yeah, which change? mnaser the one you linked earlier? | 19:08 |
| mnaser | ssh mnaser@review.opendev.org -p29418 is not responding to me right now | 19:08 |
| mnaser | (I was trying to push it while i wrote that message) | 19:09 |
| fungi | it's working for me from home | 19:09 |
| fungi | (well, with my username) | 19:09 |
| mnaser | hmm | 19:09 |
| mnaser | i wonder if it's my yubikey.. | 19:09 |
| fungi | you can also rule out either ipv4 or ipv6 by passing -4 or -6 options on the ssh command line | 19:09 |
| fungi | (i tested both here, fwiw, no problems) | 19:10 |
| mnaser | i think my ssh client is being annoying | 19:11 |
| mnaser | brb doing the worlds only troubleshooting step | 19:12 |
| fungi | have you tried turning it off and on again? ;) | 19:12 |
| mnaser | yep. that fixed it | 19:14 |
| openstackgerrit | Mohammed Naser proposed openstack/governance master: Allow for faster addition of projects https://review.opendev.org/726932 | 19:14 |
| mnaser | tc-members: ^ ok now i got it right | 19:14 |
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| gmann | mnaser: removing 1 week waiting lgtm. 2 comments inline - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/726932/1 | 19:35 |
| mnaser | useful feedback, i'll let it linger a bit longer to get more feedback from other tc members | 19:37 |
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