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| gmann | We have nova PTL position filled now till next cycle election - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-March/013106.html | 13:52 |
|---|---|---|
| mnaser | tc-members: ping about https://review.opendev.org/#/c/710020/ please | 14:07 |
| mnaser | gmann: yay! | 14:07 |
| mnaser | that's awesome. | 14:07 |
| jroll | \o/ | 14:07 |
| jroll | mnaser: did you see graham's question there? should it be depends-on, not needed-by? | 14:09 |
| mnaser | jroll: i think it's needed-by, it's a chicken-and-egg problem and i settled for needed-by as that was the original patch | 14:10 |
| mnaser | i'll leave that in the review | 14:10 |
| mnaser | needed-by won't block anyhow | 14:10 |
| jroll | mnaser: maybe update the commit message then? (not the last line, but the body) | 14:10 |
| mnaser | jroll: oh i see | 14:11 |
| mnaser | i forgot that i swapped that part | 14:11 |
| jroll | no worries, thanks! | 14:12 |
| jroll | mnaser: actually, maybe change the entire commit message? | 14:12 |
| jroll | with the resolution, this is no longer a revert | 14:13 |
| * mnaser jroll: yeah i'm actually considering going back to somewhat of the original one. | 14:13 | |
| mnaser | oops i /me'd that | 14:13 |
| jroll | ++ | 14:13 |
| gmann | yeah, needed-by <project config patch> is right and we see project config patch is also good to go at least no big objections. | 14:14 |
| openstackgerrit | Mohammed Naser proposed openstack/governance master: Split OpenDev out of OpenStack Infra https://review.opendev.org/710020 | 14:16 |
| mnaser | gmann, jroll: ^ :) | 14:16 |
| jroll | thanks | 14:17 |
| gmann | mnaser: seems you missed the projects.yaml update. | 14:25 |
| gmann | mnaser: ah no. i looked at diff from previous PS. | 14:28 |
| mugsie | mnaser: i am not sure we need to have the Needed-By at all | 14:29 |
| mugsie | needed* | 14:29 |
| gmann | mugsie: project config change need to wait for governance approval first | 14:30 |
| mugsie | gmann: that doesn't link to a project config change | 14:31 |
| gmann | that is how we do for change in deliverable or new project | 14:31 |
| mugsie | https://review.opendev.org/#/c/703488/ | 14:31 |
| mugsie | it updates a rst doc | 14:31 |
| mugsie | that describes how the slip will happen | 14:31 |
| gmann | i see | 14:31 |
| mugsie | split* | 14:31 |
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| jroll | mugsie: needed-by seems reasonable, as it isn't a technical blocker, just a note (afaik) | 14:33 |
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| fungi | gmann: there is no associated change for the openstack/project-config repo because none of the listed repositories are being created, retired or renamed (they were already moved into the opendev repository namespace during the train cycle, in preparation) | 14:39 |
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| gmann | yeah. | 14:42 |
| gmann | doc update patch is good ref in that case. | 14:47 |
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| gmann | any opinion on this, i am reading the Individual membership lifecycle as different from two page - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/711531/3/doc/source/common/accounts.rst@58 | 15:28 |
| gmann | aspiers: fungi ^^ ? | 15:30 |
| gmann | aprice: | 15:30 |
| gmann | aspiers: please ignore. | 15:30 |
| gmann | i have not tried what actually happens, either individual membership is terminated or changed back to community level from foundation level | 15:31 |
| fungi | gmann: basically if you skip voting in two consecutive (annual) board elections | 15:31 |
| gmann | yeah but is that terminated or changed back to community level | 15:31 |
| gmann | this says change back too community level - https://www.openstack.org/join/ | 15:32 |
| gmann | this says terminated - https://www.openstack.org/legal/individual-member-policy/ | 15:32 |
| fungi | then periodically (usually a little before the next election) a process is run manually to switch those accounts from individual members to just "community" accounts | 15:32 |
| fungi | so they're both right | 15:32 |
| fungi | the membership is terminated (expired) | 15:32 |
| fungi | the account is retained | 15:32 |
| fungi | you need an account to sign up for osf individual membership, but you don't need to be a member to have an account | 15:33 |
| fungi | from an internal implementation detail, your membership is reflected with a flag on the account which includes it in the members group | 15:34 |
| fungi | and that flag gets removed from your account when your membership lapses | 15:34 |
| gmann | but this does not talk about membership it talk on members which i assume either level "Termination of Individual Members." https://www.openstack.org/legal/individual-member-policy/ | 15:35 |
| fungi | members are people with membership | 15:35 |
| gmann | "Community member" or "Foundation member" or both ? | 15:35 |
| fungi | "community member" is terrible terminology | 15:36 |
| fungi | we should probably improve the web interface and messaging around account settings | 15:36 |
| gmann | because i see being "Community Member" also as Individual Member | 15:36 |
| fungi | the "community member" term has been used to mean an account which is not associated with an active osf individual membership | 15:37 |
| fungi | we should never have used the word "member" for that, it's way confusing | 15:37 |
| gmann | and join page i read as Individual memebership is retained but change from foudnation to community if not active(say no vote in election for last 24 months ) | 15:37 |
| fungi | right, that's trying to say that your osf individual member status is terminated if you don't vote in at least one of two consecutive annual board of directors elections | 15:38 |
| gmann | ok, i think that is confusing. "Community Member" is just an account holder not Individual Member of OSF | 15:38 |
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| fungi | exactly | 15:38 |
| fungi | which is why i say we should never have used the word "member" for that | 15:39 |
| gmann | may eb we can update the join page to reflect that because currently 'Community Member' also under "Individual Member" section | 15:39 |
| fungi | "community member" in this case means an account for someone who is not an osf individual member | 15:39 |
| fungi | i agree, i think the join page and the rest of the member interface needs updating to get rid of the "community member" term and replace it with something which is less likely to be confused with individual member status | 15:41 |
| fungi | like just call it an "account" | 15:41 |
| gmann | yeah, that will be more clear | 15:42 |
| gmann | or moving the "Community Member" separate or adding one more bullet point under "Community Member" and "Foundation Member" about OSF membership. | 15:42 |
| gmann | but changing it to 'account' make very clear | 15:42 |
| fungi | i've answered so many confused people over the years who didn't get the difference between "community member" and "individual member" that i'm convinced we need to just get rid of the "community member" terminology (which i think we ought to be able to fairly easily, as it's not referenced anywhere in bylaws that i'm aware) | 15:44 |
| gmann | yeah, because the patch adding those membership scope/lifecycle can be another new wrong/confusing place. | 15:48 |
| gmann | added comment on https://review.opendev.org/#/c/711531/5 | 15:48 |
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| AJaeger | gmann, fungi, thanks for discussion. I suggest to change contributor Guide and just link to https://www.openstack.org/legal/individual-member-policy/ - would that work? | 15:58 |
| gmann | AJaeger: yeah, i am ok to just link to this legal page for more details. writing text can be obsolete in future if something change legally about those membership world. | 16:00 |
| gmann | AJaeger: and under section name 'Eligibility to Vote in Elections' so that text under accounts section does not become lengthy so that people do not read. | 16:02 |
| AJaeger | Ok, update coming... | 16:04 |
| gmann | thanks | 16:04 |
| AJaeger | gmann: https://review.opendev.org/711531 updated | 16:06 |
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| gmann | AJaeger: thanks. lgtm. +1. | 16:12 |
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| AJaeger | thanks, gmann ! | 16:17 |
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