| gmann | tc-members ^^ please vote on Ussuri 2nd goal selection- https://review.opendev.org/699313 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| gmann | diablo_rojo: import-goal - https://opendev.org/openstack/goal-tools/ | 00:03 |
| diablo_rojo | gmann, oh cool thanks! I would guess that the goal needs to exist in the selected dir before it can be run | 00:04 |
| diablo_rojo | but I haven't looked at the code | 00:04 |
| gmann | diablo_rojo: yeah, it takes goal doc url to fetch the goal documentation etc. | 00:05 |
| diablo_rojo | Got it. | 00:06 |
| smcginnis | We have the results of the V naming poll! | 00:17 |
| smcginnis | http://paste.openstack.org/show/787649/ | 00:17 |
| smcginnis | The one issue was the duplicate entry for Vidette. | 00:17 |
| smcginnis | It would appear from the results that it does not require any further work to resolve that. | 00:17 |
| smcginnis | Folks either ranked them the same as ttx had suggested, or they only voted for one or the other. But combined, it does not look like it would have made it high enough in the ranking to be a contender. | 00:18 |
| smcginnis | I'll leave that to the TC to finalize though. | 00:18 |
| smcginnis | Next step is to have the foundation vet the results. | 00:18 |
| smcginnis | Only announcing here until we go through that process, then I can announce the final results to the mailing list. | 00:19 |
| * smcginnis goes back to finishing up supper prep. | 00:19 | |
| clarkb | victoria is a great town | 00:21 |
| clarkb | highly recommend visiting if you are in the vicinity | 00:21 |
| clarkb | (I think I prefer it to vancouver) | 00:21 |
| diablo_rojo | vkmc will be thrilled | 00:29 |
| fungi | i too quite liked my visit to victoria. highly recommend | 00:50 |
| fungi | then again, i have an affinity for sleepy seaside villages | 00:51 |
| fungi | on islands | 00:52 |
| diablo_rojo | fungi, seems right up your alley for sure | 00:56 |
| fungi | i'm not into antique shopping, but apparently if you are, it's the place to go for that | 01:02 |
| clarkb | If you like museums https://royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/ is amazing | 01:03 |
| fungi | lots of english military officers decided that was the place to retire to after the great war | 01:03 |
| clarkb | http://www.unionpacificcoffee.ca/ and that place serves amazing breakfast. Not a coffee drinker but I hear that is good there too :) | 01:06 |
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| zaneb | diablo_rojo: I have +2 on that repo <laughs maniacally> | 02:42 |
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| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Thanks for sharing the news. | 04:54 |
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| ttx | I think Vidette scored sufficiently low that it's not a problem. | 09:15 |
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| ttx | smcginnis: it's actually a bigger procedural issue that the CIVS results are not public (some might say you altered the results). But as a supporter of the "smaller group decides" option, I don't really care | 09:18 |
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| ricolin | o/ | 09:22 |
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| smcginnis | ttx: Here is the results link: https://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_13ccd49b66cfd1b4&rkey=4e184724fa32eed6 | 12:33 |
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| ttx | smcginnis: weird that we don;t have the Vancouver vs. Victoria data... may be because you chose minimax (OpenSTack traditionally uses Schulze) | 13:01 |
| ttx | Oh, it's actually a tie | 13:01 |
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| ttx | Minimax ranks Victoria on top based on its performance against other options. | 13:03 |
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| fungi | i wasn't paying attention to the poll this time around, was a tie-breaker chosen at the start of the poll? | 13:10 |
| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance-website master: Use openstackdocstheme 1.31.2 https://review.opendev.org/699410 | 13:22 |
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| smcginnis | ttx: The results page lets you pick how you want to view the results. | 14:13 |
| smcginnis | fungi: (What) have we done a tie breaker before? | 14:13 |
| asettle | Oh bummer. | 14:13 |
| smcginnis | Results in Shulze. For the lulz. https://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?num_winners=1&id=E_13ccd49b66cfd1b4&rkey=4e184724fa32eed6&algorithm=beatpath | 14:13 |
| smcginnis | asettle: Not the results you wanted? | 14:14 |
| asettle | smcginnis, just the tie breaker thing. We appear to be getting those a lot lately. | 14:14 |
| jungleboyj | Oh, I wondered why the results looked like that when I looked last night. So they tied. | 14:15 |
| smcginnis | I figured the TC would get to decide how to choose the winner out of those. Assuming the vetting process didn't eliminate one for whatever reason. | 14:15 |
| smcginnis | Don't think OpenStack can be confused with a motorcycle, but hey, lawyers get a little crazy at times. | 14:16 |
| jungleboyj | Ugh, going to really put our new process to the test here. | 14:16 |
| fungi | smcginnis: probably not the same situation, but for technical elections we proscribe a finishing method and tie breaking mechanism here: https://governance.openstack.org/election/#election-system | 14:39 |
| fungi | er, prescribe i mean | 14:40 |
| smcginnis | So it's a coin toss? | 14:40 |
| ttx | That said, Minimax did pick the "best" as while they are tied, Victoria wins against other options by a larger margin | 14:40 |
| smcginnis | That's what I was thinking. | 14:41 |
| fungi | yep, this way should a tie in the results arise, the officials can't be accused of selecting a finishing method and tie breaker afterward which allows them to influence the results | 14:41 |
| ttx | Minimax is not good at breaking loops, but it's good at breaking ties | 14:41 |
| fungi | in the case of this poll, minmax seems fine, agreed | 14:41 |
| smcginnis | Full disclosure that I'm biased, but I think that's one advantage of the CIVS poll that even though they are "tied", there is one that is indicated to be above the other. | 14:41 |
| smcginnis | Biased as far as my preferance for the naming. :) | 14:42 |
| fungi | heh | 14:42 |
| fungi | well, regardless, if one is stricken from possibility by trademark concerns, then the other is still a find candidate (hopefully) | 14:42 |
| ttx | In the spirit of transition toward the next system, we could just ask the TC to break the tie | 14:42 |
| smcginnis | Yes, very happy with all of the top choices. | 14:43 |
| smcginnis | ttx: ++ | 14:43 |
| ttx | I was a strong Vancouver person, but I must say Victoria is a very good option too | 14:43 |
| smcginnis | Did I follow the new process right that the community will propose names like we have done in the past, then the TC will vote amongst itself which one to choose? | 14:43 |
| ttx | propose names with no constraint,. But yes | 14:44 |
| smcginnis | Oh, so no geographic or other targeted name? Just whatever name starts with the right letter? | 14:44 |
| mugsie | yup, and uses ASCII, and is less than 10 chars | 14:45 |
| ttx | yes | 14:45 |
| smcginnis | Ah, good. That should greatly simplify things. | 14:45 |
| ttx | I expect a surge in "cultural" references like Train | 14:45 |
| mugsie | that was the idea :) | 14:45 |
| smcginnis | Probably true. | 14:45 |
| ttx | anyway, whatever you prefer smcginnis. Say minimax chose the right solution, use coin toss, let the TC choose | 14:46 |
| smcginnis | I was hoping we could finish out this first A-Z with the same pattern of geo names, just to make it clear in the future which was part of what cycle, but at least we got pretty darn close. | 14:46 |
| ttx | I'm fine with * | 14:46 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: That would have been nice. | 14:46 |
| smcginnis | I would prefer if the TC chose the winner. But maybe taking into account that the CIVS poll results show higher support for Victoria even though there is a tie. :) | 14:47 |
| ttx | haha | 14:47 |
| fungi | i'd totally buy that line of reasoning | 14:48 |
| ttx | ok... do you want to use CIVS for the TC poll ? Or just the vote meetbot | 14:48 |
| ttx | or just collect public statements | 14:48 |
| ttx | Let me know so that I can coordinate with others to produce another tie | 14:48 |
| smcginnis | Since there are only two choices and a small group of voters, I think the meetbot voting should probably work well. | 14:49 |
| ttx | the main issue with meetbot is that we all need to vote around the same time. i would be fine with you collecting the votes in privmsg | 14:49 |
| smcginnis | We can do it that way for sure if that would make it easier for the TC. | 14:51 |
| smcginnis | Especially this time of year, it probably is difficult to get everyone together at the same time. | 14:52 |
| fungi | not coming up with a good thing to propose in gerrit to achieve a similar effect asynchronously with review votes | 14:52 |
| smcginnis | I suppose I could put up two patches somewhere, one for each name, then let the TC vote on those. | 14:53 |
| smcginnis | But probably simpler to have each person DM me? | 14:53 |
| fungi | though if you want to do async in irc, you could just ask tc members to highlight you and state their preference in here, which gets you a public log of their votes (at the risk of it maybe being slightly harder to make sure you don't overlook one i suppose) | 14:53 |
| smcginnis | Or do we want to have it open so it's recorded int he channel logs? | 14:53 |
| smcginnis | fungi: ++ | 14:53 |
| smcginnis | I like that idea. | 14:53 |
| mnaser | and a deadline, i suppose | 14:55 |
| fungi | also if you're going for a simple majority, you could call it once that's reached assuming the split isn't too close | 14:55 |
| fungi | if 7 tc members weigh in favoring the same option, you don't need the remaining votes | 14:55 |
| mnaser | also true | 14:56 |
| smcginnis | OK, let's go with that plan unless someone raises any major concerns about it. | 14:57 |
| fungi | which means some tc members may just cast a vote in favor of not dragging the process out ;) | 14:57 |
| fungi | i'd be hard-pressed to choose between vancouver and victoria if i were on the tc | 14:58 |
| fungi | they're both great options | 14:58 |
| smcginnis | asettle, gmann, mugsie, jungleboyj, evrardjp, jroll, cloudnull, diablo_rojo, mnaser, njohnston, ricolin, ttx, zaneb: Please message me in this channel (smcginnis: I vote XX) with your vote to break the V naming tie. | 14:58 |
| smcginnis | We will run the vote until we reach one with a majority. | 14:59 |
| asettle | smcginnis, I vote Victoria | 14:59 |
| njohnston | smcginnis: I vote Victoria | 14:59 |
| asettle | JINX | 14:59 |
| ttx | smcginnis: I wait until everyoen votes to feel more important | 14:59 |
| smcginnis | Or... next Monday? if we don't get enough votes? | 14:59 |
| jungleboyj | I vote Vancouver | 14:59 |
| ttx | woo, game is ON | 14:59 |
| smcginnis | ttx: Hey, no waiting so it looks like you pick a winner. :P | 14:59 |
| * njohnston mentally rebrands Barbican as "Victoria's Secret" | 15:00 | |
| ttx | TIL there was a Victoria McCloud | 15:00 |
| * smcginnis shakes head | 15:00 | |
| cloudnull | smcginnis: I vote Victoria | 15:02 |
| * jungleboyj can only hear the McCloud and Ewe joke in my head now. Thanks TTX. | 15:05 | |
| ttx | I'm happy with both, so would tie them if it was a CIVS poll. But it's not, and so I'll choose Victoria because it fared better against other options than vancouver did | 15:08 |
| ttx | smcginnis: I vote Victoria | 15:08 |
| jungleboyj | ttx: Awww, thanks. Make me the outlier. Though, after reading through the rest of the backlog that seems the best choice. | 15:08 |
| ttx | (keeping in mind Victoria could be striked out by trademark review and Vancouver picked instead :) | 15:08 |
| smcginnis | Are you feeling lonely now jungleboyj? :) | 15:10 |
| smcginnis | Don't worry, there's still time. | 15:10 |
| jungleboyj | I like Victoria too. | 15:10 |
| jungleboyj | So, am happy either way. | 15:10 |
| mugsie | smcginnis: I vote Victoria | 15:13 |
| zaneb | I was really hoping for Victory, because giving the release the same name as someone in the community seems problematic. but vkmc seemed more enthusiastic about it than I would have been so... | 15:15 |
| zaneb | smcginnis: I vote Victoria | 15:15 |
| zaneb | on the basis that it beat the other options by a wider margin | 15:15 |
| smcginnis | We did have Rocky. :) | 15:16 |
| smcginnis | Both being in past tense. | 15:17 |
| zaneb | heh, true | 15:17 |
| evrardjp | hey | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | are there 7 votes or 6? | 15:18 |
| evrardjp | I would prefer let my other fellow members chose, and be used for tie breaking if necessary. | 15:18 |
| zaneb | currently 6:jungleboyj in favour of Victoria by my count | 15:20 |
| smcginnis | Yep, that's what I have. | 15:20 |
| evrardjp | that's what I have seen in logs too | 15:20 |
| evrardjp | smcginnis: I vote Victoria | 15:25 |
| evrardjp | smcginnis: this way we can continue with our lifes, because we have 7 votes. | 15:25 |
| evrardjp | Thanks everyone for voting! | 15:26 |
| smcginnis | Yep, that makes 7. | 15:26 |
| smcginnis | I can wait a little to see if anyone has any other feedback or wants to change their vote. | 15:26 |
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| smcginnis | But that puts Victoria in the majority. | 15:26 |
| evrardjp | I guess, until official confirmation, welcome to OpenStack Victoria | 15:26 |
| evrardjp | (unofficial) | 15:26 |
| smcginnis | ;) | 15:26 |
| evrardjp | Wait is that release U or V? | 15:26 |
| evrardjp | :p | 15:26 |
| evrardjp | "Unofficial" | 15:27 |
| smcginnis | ttx, fungi: Anything I need to do to get the Foundation process going? | 15:27 |
| jungleboyj | I am happy to vote Victoria after reading the backlog to make things easy. I think it too is a good name. | 15:27 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: Victory! | 15:28 |
| jungleboyj | evrardjp: Not an option. ;-) | 15:28 |
| evrardjp | We couldn't say Victory wins, that would have been a pleonasm | 15:29 |
| zaneb | peer pressure ftw ;) | 15:29 |
| evrardjp | jungleboyj: indeed | 15:29 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: hahaha | 15:29 |
| njohnston | evrardjp: +100 style points for "pleonasm" :-) | 15:30 |
| evrardjp | I didn't know the english term, so I google translated it from french | 15:30 |
| evrardjp | what's the "usual" word for pleonasm? | 15:30 |
| * zaneb goes to read up on the difference between pleonasm and tautology | 15:30 | |
| smcginnis | Hah | 15:30 |
| cmurphy | i had to google whether that was a real word | 15:31 |
| evrardjp | hahaha | 15:31 |
| smcginnis | Haha, me too. | 15:31 |
| smcginnis | "Too much" maybe? | 15:31 |
| evrardjp | nah tautology is different | 15:31 |
| cmurphy | the one time evrardjp knows an english word that i don't | 15:31 |
| smcginnis | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm | 15:31 |
| njohnston | I think there has to be a repetitive aspect for it to be a tautology | 15:31 |
| zaneb | evrardjp: I'd say tautology, in the sense of that actually being a work I'd heard of, but I don't know that that's used commonly (other than by language geeks) either | 15:31 |
| evrardjp | cmurphy: that's from greek , I have an excuse | 15:32 |
| cmurphy | :) | 15:32 |
| zaneb | evrardjp: what's the french term? | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | pléonasme :) | 15:32 |
| njohnston | and pleonasm is more cogent than logorrhea | 15:32 |
| evrardjp | though it's not often used in a conversation :) | 15:32 |
| zaneb | pro tip, do NOT click on the link where it says "Not to be confused with Neoplasm." on wikipedia | 15:33 |
| evrardjp | HAHA | 15:33 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: I see you're back to the previous office hours topics | 15:33 |
| zaneb | "Tautology and pleonasm are not consistently differentiated in the literature" | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | (geriatrics office hours) | 15:34 |
| zaneb | lol | 15:34 |
| zaneb | you clicked on the link didn't you | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | I thought tautology was applicable to more fields than litterature | 15:34 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: sadly I knew the term, but I clicked inded. | 15:35 |
| * jungleboyj wishes I hadn't | 15:35 | |
| evrardjp | the image is totally worth it jungleboyj! :p | 15:35 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:36 |
| zaneb | well, this has been... educational | 15:38 |
| evrardjp | njohnston: I didn't know that term | 15:39 |
| zaneb | my take is that a pleonasm is a tautology that operates at the word (or sub-word) level | 15:39 |
| evrardjp | a pleonasm is a tautology indeed by definition, but the other ways isn't true. Which makes this sentence a tautology, if I am not mistaken | 15:40 |
| evrardjp | as zaneb said, indeed educational! | 15:40 |
| evrardjp | generally "palabre" is used instead of "logorrhée" in french | 15:41 |
| evrardjp | though sensu stricto it's probably different :p | 15:42 |
| evrardjp | but I like this new word :), thanks njohnston :D | 15:43 |
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| njohnston | evrardjp: Thanks! Yes, palaver (English equivalent of palabre) is idle chit chat whereas logorrhea is more of a high-speed poorly structured monologue at best, and close to Tourettes at it's worst. | 15:46 |
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| evrardjp | yes indeed. Generally both involve a flow of words, which is why I guess we don't make such a difference (wrongly) where I live | 15:48 |
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| evrardjp | TIL! | 15:48 |
| evrardjp | thanks! | 15:48 |
| evrardjp | (now going back to vacation) | 15:48 |
| smcginnis | evrardjp: Enjoy! | 15:48 |
| jungleboyj | Ah, I here palaver used in British radio. Now I get it. | 15:49 |
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| fungi | neat, i use tautology all the time in the "necessarily true assertion" sense, but was unaware it could also be used more generally to describe a redundancy of words (which was only a pleonasm as far as i was aware) | 15:57 |
| fungi | i guess i only really knew tautology from logic courses at university (i took logic in both the math and philosophy departments, because i wanted to compare them) | 15:58 |
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| fungi | smcginnis: i can ask wes to get the ball rolling on verifying victoria | 15:58 |
| fungi | i'll be on a call with him monentarily anyway | 15:59 |
| fungi | momentarily | 15:59 |
| fungi | certainly not monetarily | 15:59 |
| smcginnis | thanks! | 15:59 |
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| ricolin | smcginnis: I vote Victoria | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | Thanks ricolin! We definitely have a majority now. | 16:01 |
| ricolin | goddess of victory sounds great to me:) | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | ;) | 16:01 |
| njohnston | Hail to the Queen | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | It was a rocky start. | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | Made me want to have a stein. | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | But I got the train going. | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | And I'm done. :) | 16:07 |
| * njohnston golf-claps | 16:08 | |
| smcginnis | Thanks, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip the Foundation staff on the way out. | 16:08 |
| tosky | smcginnis: u(s)suri about it? | 16:09 |
| tosky | (that was bad) | 16:09 |
| smcginnis | Love it! | 16:09 |
| fungi | it's a tough one to work into an english-language pun, bonus for effort | 16:11 |
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| fungi | smcginnis: i have cc'd your gmx.com address on a message to wes and jonathan about the naming poll results and requesting they initiate the trademark search | 16:46 |
| fungi | please feel free to follow up if you need to correct any misstatements on my part | 16:47 |
| smcginnis | Thanks fungi | 16:47 |
| fungi | any time! | 16:47 |
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| gmann | o/ | 17:42 |
| gmann | evrardjp: if you are up to approve this? or i will do - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/691737/6 | 17:48 |
| gmann | tc-members: reminder to vote on moving the contributor guide goal to selected dir - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/699313/1 | 17:49 |
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| gmann | thanks smcginnis for working on naming thing. (^^)// | 18:20 |
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| smcginnis | np | 19:05 |
| * jungleboyj is so happy he read the scrollback. Rare to see smcginnis being punny. | 19:06 | |
| gmann | diablo_rojo: as per comment about PTL section in template, how you would like to proceed ? - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/696001/ | 19:25 |
| smcginnis | jungleboyj: :D | 19:25 |
| gmann | diablo_rojo: if we decide to have or drop the PTL guide/section ,it need goal definition change before we move that to selected dir. | 19:26 |
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| gmann | my idea is 1. merge the current goal proposed patch 2. discuss/fix and merge the template 3. if needed change the goal definition in new patch 4. move it to selected dir. | 19:28 |
| gmann | tc-members ^^ thoughts | 19:28 |
| diablo_rojo | gmann, I still believe that the section belongs here | 19:31 |
| diablo_rojo | that being a PTL is a form of contribution | 19:32 |
| gmann | ok. we can discuss about that and if no change then we can skip 3rd step. let's merge current goal proposal patch and then work on template. what you say ? | 19:33 |
| diablo_rojo | That sounds good to me | 19:35 |
| diablo_rojo | Get the goal merged | 19:35 |
| gmann | ok | 19:35 |
| diablo_rojo | Get the goal switched to the correct dir | 19:35 |
| gmann | tc-members: (evrardjp ) I will approve 691737 after 2 hours (it already satisfy approval requirement), please raise hand if any objection - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/691737/ | 19:35 |
| diablo_rojo | and I will get the template updated today | 19:35 |
| gmann | +1. thanks | 19:35 |
| jungleboyj | gmann: I am fine with your plan. | 19:36 |
| jungleboyj | Work the issues through the template review and update the goal if needed. | 19:36 |
| gmann | yeah | 19:37 |
| jungleboyj | I didn't realize there was renewed debate there. | 19:38 |
| njohnston | I am fine with merging now and then iterating on it | 19:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/governance master: Update vulnerability:managed policy https://review.opendev.org/678426 | 20:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add goal for project specific PTL and contributor guides https://review.opendev.org/691737 | 22:40 |
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