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| flwang | mnaser: are you there? I think we need to discuss your patches in magnum, something you mentioned in the TC meeting are not true | 01:54 |
|---|---|---|
| mnaser | happy to listen, but it's almost 10pm here and I'm on mobile | 01:55 |
| mnaser | Please feel free to clarify here | 01:55 |
| flwang | the patch about flannel you mentioned, me and spyros were trying to help and we have raised our comments, but we didn't see your reply | 01:55 |
| flwang | and as for the core reviewer issue, we had discussion about brtknr and another people you mentioned, i even had a private discussion with brtknr about the core nomination | 01:57 |
| mnaser | I mean we didn't make any changes to flannel yet that code was dropped/removed. | 01:57 |
| flwang | but based on my observation, he is still a bit new about how magnum works, so i decided to wait a bit and encourage more code contribution from him | 01:57 |
| mnaser | And in my personal experiments, if you don't have that iptables command, it won't ever forward any traffic | 01:58 |
| mnaser | That's documented with people struggling with it all over the place. | 01:58 |
| flwang | mnaser: but i did the test and it works for me, i think same for spyros, that's why we asked how did you setup your environment to try to figure out the root cause | 01:58 |
| mnaser | Can I ask why did we do our conformance tests using calico and not flannel, which is the default driver? It should be working. | 01:59 |
| mnaser | It also turns out it largely had to do with the patch I pushed up about introspection of hostname instead of a hardcoded novalocal | 01:59 |
| flwang | your hostname patch is good and we have already merged it quickly, no? | 02:00 |
| flwang | again, we're welcome for any contribution since we need the resource | 02:00 |
| flwang | some of your patches getting slow merging because those comments we have asked in the patch, and you know, there are only me and spyros are active reviewers and we all have full time jobs, so i apologize for the slow review | 02:02 |
| mnaser | I understand, but when I see new features being shipped at the expense of patches not being reviewed, that makes for a pretty poor personal experience, if you put yourself in my place. | 02:03 |
| flwang | i understand that, and i will partially blame the time zone | 02:04 |
| flwang | if we're in same tz, we can trouble shot your flannel issue more easier | 02:04 |
| flwang | for me, you may don't know, i have to work over night to catch up with the guys from CERN to make things easier and quicker | 02:04 |
| flwang | i have been a long term contributors since 2012, and i feel very bad about the comments from TC team about the project and my ptl role with my showing in the meeting | 02:05 |
| flwang | i worked very hard for glance, for zaqar, for magnum, for ceilometer, for a lot of openstack projects i love | 02:06 |
| flwang | i help openstack magnum to get the CNCF certification, but then I got comments saying that why i didn't use another driver, is it fair? | 02:07 |
| mnaser | The conformance tests don't mention that the cluster template used was calico. The default driver is flannel | 02:07 |
| mnaser | And I have spent way too much time trying to get the certification to work on the default cluster template, my own personal time too :) | 02:08 |
| flwang | that's not my intention, i will update that. and again, i'm happy to help your flannel issue, but please don't judge that your patch haven't been merged is because we don't care flannel | 02:09 |
| mnaser | It's important that we have functional default behaviour. If magnum works in some odd combination of cluster templates, then we should fix that rather than have that cluster template | 02:09 |
| flwang | so we have same goal | 02:09 |
| flwang | to make magnum (openstack) better, don't doubt the passion of a long term contributor | 02:09 |
| mnaser | Ok, I will spin up a devstack tomorrow and run conformance tests with the default cluster template. I'd be happy to se it work | 02:09 |
| flwang | mnaser: as for function test, as you know, I did also put effort on that | 02:10 |
| flwang | and I can feel the same pain | 02:10 |
| mnaser | I just struggled because personally I felt that every time I pushed code I hit a wall, it would sit around till it hits a merge conflict and I know you're strapped for resources in the project | 02:11 |
| mnaser | Trust me, It's rough in OSA land. Everyone wants a functional deployment tool and no one contributes as much. But it's times like that where you give the key to some members that aren't necessarily as strong but are driven | 02:11 |
| flwang | core reviewer is another story, i'm very keen to get new core, but i need to make sure their qualified, i can't nominate core if they're not ready | 02:12 |
| mnaser | I've done it twice with two cores and they've grown to be really good. Yes. They'll break your gate or merge something wrong here and there. But that can be fixed. | 02:12 |
| flwang | mnaser: that's good to know and i'm trying to follow that as well | 02:12 |
| mnaser | It's better to empower people early and give them a chance at being core rather than waiting for the perfect moment, imho. I think the biggest issue with magnum is the integration. | 02:13 |
| flwang | besides, i would like you can talk to me or the team directly if you have any problem about using magnum instead of blaming our work with somebody don't know how mangum works | 02:13 |
| flwang | it does hurt me, TBH | 02:14 |
| mnaser | My apologies. I've just grown to be frustrated because all I hear is "this is not working" and pushing patches results in not much feedback till they merge conflict | 02:15 |
| mnaser | So put yourself in my shoes when I am doing my best to stand up for OpenStack and that is the sort of thing my users see | 02:15 |
| flwang | that's why we need irc, and instant talk | 02:15 |
| ricolin | flwang, I can tell how hard it's for you to encourage new people to do review and contribute, looking forward to see those potential candidates ware encouraged and go for it | 02:16 |
| flwang | i understand that, and again, i'm happy to help you for any issue you have, but that doesn't mean i should chase you to help you, you should be more active in the magnum channel to talk to me, isn't it? | 02:17 |
| mnaser | All I ask is for reviews to be done fairly and prioritizng the reviewing of patches just as much as pushing patches. | 02:17 |
| mnaser | I've pinged a few times the channel for trivial patches to be reviewed and help out when I can in the channel. I don't know what more I can do. | 02:18 |
| flwang | mnaser: my appologies if it's not the case, it should be. | 02:18 |
| mnaser | There's a long queue of unmerged patches that's growing and seeing patches pushed up from you or other cores and merged while others sit and wait is a very frustrating experience. | 02:18 |
| mnaser | I think that's what it narrowed it down to | 02:19 |
| flwang | that's because you can have more trust for the patches from other cores, at least for some cases | 02:21 |
| mnaser | (and because of how magnum works, when other big changes merge, they cause a ton of merge conflicts across other patches and it's not motivating to keep rebasing them) | 02:21 |
| flwang | i understand that | 02:23 |
| mnaser | I agree but that's not sustainable for the project. I would prioritize non core patches cause those are the harder ones to come by. Those are the more casual contributors who might not be as invested in the project and won't have time to rebase and clean up | 02:23 |
| mnaser | Vs a core who doesn't mind rebasing and reiterating. | 02:23 |
| flwang | i agree with you and i know it's common in openstack community now | 02:23 |
| mnaser | Anyways, this is all my personal opinion. I could be wrong. That's just my experience. I am sorry that you feel sad because of my comments, I said them out of frustration because I want this project to succeed, it's instrumental in the growth of OpenStack | 02:24 |
| mnaser | I think you're doing as much as you can within your resources and I appreciate it, I really do | 02:25 |
| flwang | the only thing make me said is, i got those comments from others, i wish you can talk to the team directly | 02:25 |
| mnaser | There's just a few things that I think if we work together on improving, we'd both do the project and everyone a favour. | 02:25 |
| mnaser | Right, I should reach out personally in the future. By no means was that some sort of private behind-your-back thing. | 02:26 |
| flwang | suggesting tc to replace the PTL instead of talking to the PTL first, is it a good way the TC would like to do? | 02:28 |
| mnaser | I don't recall making that suggestion. | 02:29 |
| flwang | anyway, i think we're all from a good intention for the project and for openstack. we just need more open communication | 02:29 |
| flwang | mnaser: sorry, i'm not saying you | 02:30 |
| mnaser | I'll leave it for other members to comment about this. I feel personally involved meaning that anything I may say might be biased | 02:30 |
| flwang | i think we better back to the technical issue of magnum, i won't be interested in any political issue | 02:33 |
| flwang | i will run test again for your patch and run sonobuoy against flannel, if there is any issue, i'm happy to help to fix | 02:34 |
| ricolin | I think the conversation is for discuss policy instead of specific cases in general, because I know you're working hard for maintain project. | 02:35 |
| mnaser | Thanks, I appreciate it. If you think calico is better, then let's just drop it from magnum so we have an easier matrix of supported configurations | 02:36 |
| mnaser | (fwiw it's 10:36pm and I'm on mobile so I might be in and out) | 02:37 |
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| flwang | mnaser: cool, thank you for your time | 02:45 |
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| mnaser | Anytime | 02:47 |
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| asettle | Morning o/ | 08:56 |
| aspiers | Hey all, who can I talk to about Shanghai registration? I registered earlier but still haven't received a confirmation email which I need for the Visa invitation letter request | 10:10 |
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| asettle | aspiers, you probably want to talk to Allison Price | 10:12 |
| asettle | allison@openstack.org | 10:12 |
| aspiers | asettle: thanks! | 10:12 |
| asettle | Np | 10:12 |
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| jroll | flwang: I agree with ricolin. I believe the part about replacing the PTL was a more general statement that if the TC needs to override a PTL to add core reviewers, it means we've already decided the PTL is not doing their job and should just replace them. it wasn't about you or magnum, that was just the case that brought it up. that's a very last resort, we don't want to replace you :) | 11:19 |
| jroll | mnaser | It's better to empower people early and give them a chance at being core rather than waiting for the perfect moment, imho. I think the biggest issue with magnum is the integration. <- +1000 on this. it's worked well in ironic too. | 11:19 |
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| asettle | Clarification point, tc-members - on a post like this where it's a typo-fix https://review.opendev.org/#/c/677820/1 - do we really require the full team + chair to approve? | 11:42 |
| asettle | Sorry, I realise in the house rules it says it does not require the team - apologies | 11:43 |
| asettle | But the chair? | 11:43 |
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| jroll | adding a magnum core, thanks flwang! :) http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-August/008680.html | 11:54 |
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| mugsie | asettle: that patch has a parent one that hasn't merged either doesn't it? | 12:02 |
| asettle | Sigh. Yes so it does. I didn't look properly, thanks. Any reason why you won't update the initial patch, zaneb ? | 12:03 |
| mnaser | asettle: have you checked out the tox target to check review status ? | 12:03 |
| asettle | Por que? | 12:04 |
| mugsie | asettle: he didn't want to loose the votes from the base patch | 12:13 |
| asettle | Ah | 12:14 |
| asettle | Coolio hoolio | 12:14 |
| dhellmann | asettle : historically only the chair could approve patches because of gerrit settings, but with vice-chair and chair-emeritus members in that gerrit group now I expect we could update the house rules | 12:17 |
| fungi | i expect as long as it's a known rule that more folks are allowed to approve things with certain topics set (as long as they confirm it really meets the rules for those topics) then we could trust tc members not to approve things the chairs are obligated to approve | 12:21 |
| fungi | i don't really feel strongly either way on that | 12:22 |
| fungi | but nothing in git is permanent, and revert is pretty easy | 12:22 |
| mugsie | yeah, my default is trust the people. (also, see ^ discussion about fast tracking cores) | 12:22 |
| fungi | i also prefer an environment where people are empowered and allowed to occasionally make mistakes (i make mistakes after years of being core on a project, after all) | 12:24 |
| asettle | ... well worded fungi - literally what I was just typing. | 12:24 |
| fungi | my main expectation is that people fix the mistakes they make when at all possible ;) | 12:24 |
| asettle | Fair | 12:28 |
| fungi | or *at least* learn what was necessary for their colleagues to do to fix it | 12:29 |
| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Any member of the TC can approve fast tracked patches https://review.opendev.org/678212 | 12:32 |
| mugsie | asettle: fungi mnaser ^^ minor change with https://review.opendev.org/678214 should open this up | 12:35 |
| mnaser | wait, all TC's have +W? | 12:39 |
| mnaser | i thought i only had that magic button | 12:39 |
| mnaser | >:( | 12:39 |
| mugsie | we dont | 12:39 |
| mugsie | that change adds it to all of us (if approved) | 12:39 |
| asettle | Oh I have it... | 12:45 |
| asettle | >.> | 12:45 |
| asettle | For that one, yes | 12:45 |
| asettle | Wow I should read before typing | 12:45 |
| asettle | Oh wait no I have it on all of them | 12:46 |
| asettle | Ah, based on the topic | 12:46 |
| asettle | TIL | 12:46 |
| mugsie | asettle: you have it, as you are vice chair | 12:47 |
| asettle | I do | 12:47 |
| mugsie | https://review.opendev.org/#/admin/groups/206,members | 12:47 |
| asettle | That's fun | 12:47 |
| asettle | Who gave me that responsibility hahhhh | 12:47 |
| * mugsie says nothing :) | 12:47 | |
| asettle | Hey hey | 12:49 |
| asettle | -.- | 12:50 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add ansible-role-uwsgi to projects https://review.opendev.org/676193 | 13:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Add [elections] ML subject tag https://review.opendev.org/678270 | 16:28 |
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