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| lbragstad | tonyb they are still a thing | 00:54 |
|---|---|---|
| tonyb | lbragstad: oh cool | 00:54 |
| lbragstad | tonyb we're actually just shy of one | 00:54 |
| tonyb | lbragstad: so I guess they start in like 6mins then :) | 00:55 |
| tonyb | \o/ | 00:55 |
| lbragstad | starting in 6 minutes | 00:55 |
| gmann | Yeah | 00:55 |
| lbragstad | but for you - i'll hangout out early to get started :) | 00:55 |
| tonyb | Aww shucks | 00:55 |
| zaneb | lbragstad, tonyb: o/ | 01:01 |
| tonyb | zaneb: \o | 01:01 |
| gmann | TC office hour started | 01:01 |
| tonyb | So elections ... | 01:02 |
| tonyb | The timing suggested by the election officials is visible at: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/election+is:open+owner:tonyb | 01:02 |
| tonyb | there are a couple of things about this that are iteresting | 01:03 |
| tonyb | 1) It's TC then PTL for like the first time ever | 01:03 |
| tonyb | 2) the TC election was moved forward by 1 week so that it didn't overlap with the PTL election | 01:03 |
| tonyb | 3) there will (again) be a single deadline for setting gerrit preferences so that the polls are delivered to the correct address | 01:04 |
| tonyb | ... I guess that's a 'few' things rather than a 'couple' | 01:04 |
| tonyb | befoer I say much of that on the mailing list I wanted to runb it past the TC | 01:04 |
| * tonyb assumes y'all are digesting that surprise attack ;P | 01:07 | |
| zaneb | tonyb: what's driving the change in order of the TC & PTL election? | 01:07 |
| tonyb | zaneb: the charter | 01:07 |
| zaneb | and do we expect this to be a regular thing? | 01:07 |
| gmann | Heh, checking dates | 01:07 |
| tonyb | zaneb: the TC election is summit-6 and the PTL is release -3 (or somehtign like that) | 01:08 |
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| tonyb | zaneb: typically the summit is waaay after the release but this time they're really close | 01:08 |
| gmann | Or is it like after PTL election, summit dates can be during TC election if they are after PTL ? | 01:08 |
| tonyb | zaneb: if you look at each review they, in a cryptic way, walk you through the seeting of the dates | 01:09 |
| tonyb | let me find the wording in the charter | 01:09 |
| lbragstad | so - they're not keyed off the same event | 01:09 |
| zaneb | tonyb: I know but it was easier to ask you for the Cliff's Notes version ;) | 01:09 |
| tonyb | lbragstad: correct | 01:09 |
| diablo_rojo | I am a very big fan of 3 in particular | 01:10 |
| lbragstad | given the fluctuation in summit scheduling over the years - i'd say it's a safe bet the ordering will change | 01:10 |
| tonyb | diablo_rojo: Yeah it's nice for the officals ;P | 01:10 |
| tonyb | diablo_rojo: but needs extra communication | 01:10 |
| gmann | Yeah about to say that, 3rd point is easy for everyone | 01:10 |
| gmann | Even for voters | 01:11 |
| tonyb | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/charter.html#election-for-ptl-seats -- says R-3 | 01:11 |
| tonyb | which is Release is at: 2019-04-10, Latest possible completion is at: 2019-03-20 | 01:12 |
| tonyb | so we complete it at: 2019-03-19T23:45 | 01:12 |
| tonyb | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/charter.html#election-for-tc-seats -- says S-6 | 01:12 |
| tonyb | which gives us: Summit is at: 2019-04-22, Latest possible completion is at: 2019-03-11 (to avoid overlap with the PTL election) the actual summit is 2019-04-29 | 01:14 |
| zaneb | we are completely rejigging the relationship between events (Summit/PTG) and the release cycle for only the second time ever, starting now, so this might be a good time for the TC to re-evaluate the charter to make sure the timings still make sense | 01:14 |
| zaneb | particularly since we will have broad authority to change the timing of the TC election starting ~next week, if the bylaws changes pass | 01:15 |
| tonyb | zaneb: Well the fall summit is in November, but the corresponding release is more like aug/sept so it'll be more normal | 01:15 |
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| tonyb | zaneb: regardless I'd say any evaluation would take more time than is feasible befoer this election season | 01:15 |
| tonyb | zaneb: the TC could always make that change and did after the Ocata shift | 01:16 |
| tonyb | and at that point that tied them to summit (TC)/release(PTL) so allow for this kind of thing | 01:16 |
| zaneb | the TC could always make their term shorter than 12 months, but not longer until the bylaws change | 01:17 |
| tonyb | zaneb: that chater says 'complete no later than S-6' so we have the ability to move things as the make sense | 01:17 |
| clarkb | tonyb: where does summit is at 2019-04-22 come from? is that just the week earlier shift and we are pretending? | 01:18 |
| gmann | How about marking TC election also with release cycle (6 weeks before release) so it will always be before PTL and consistent? And release will always be before summt. | 01:18 |
| tonyb | clarkb: Yup exactly | 01:18 |
| tonyb | gmann: Personally I don't see any value in the order of PTL then TC it's just the way it was done historically | 01:19 |
| lbragstad | dumb question: is the main goal here just to make sure they aren't at the same time? | 01:19 |
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| tonyb | lbragstad: Do you mean the wording in the charter? or my suggestion to move the date forward by a week? | 01:21 |
| gmann | tonyb: agree. But that can give a consistent dates and easy for official at least | 01:21 |
| lbragstad | tonyb both? | 01:21 |
| zaneb | tonyb: folks who have won a PTL election may be regarded to have a stronger claim to be elected to the TC. Also, PTLs who have found a replacement to step up may have more time available to run for the TC | 01:21 |
| tonyb | lbragstad: well yes that later is certainly to ensure they run seperately as the tools make that assumption, but they don't care about order | 01:22 |
| gmann | tonyb: lbragstad but moving forward should not make TC term more than 12 months | 01:22 |
| zaneb | speaking personally (as a potential TC candidate) I'm relaxed about the order, but it may affect some people's decisions | 01:22 |
| tonyb | lbragstad: in terms of the chater, I think it was partially to keep the TC term about 12months but still give us a little flexibility to hand situations like this | 01:23 |
| lbragstad | got it - thanks | 01:23 |
| tonyb | zaneb: I think we'll have to agree to disagree on some of that | 01:24 |
| smcginnis | I like the order of TC before PTL. | 01:25 |
| smcginnis | We wanted the TC election early enough before the summit so newly elected members have the time and arguments to get approval to go to the event. | 01:25 |
| smcginnis | And I've seen more often than the reverse that an existing PTL may want to know if they will be on the TC before deciding to run again. | 01:26 |
| zaneb | (speaking from my experience as a (wildly unsuccessful) TC candidate around the time when I also served as a PTL) | 01:26 |
| zaneb | smcginnis: those are both good points | 01:27 |
| gmann | Yeah its tradeoff of both points | 01:27 |
| smcginnis | Definitely | 01:27 |
| zaneb | FTR we also need newly-elected PTLs to get approval to go to events | 01:27 |
| lbragstad | are both PTL terms and TC terms documented in the bylaws? | 01:28 |
| zaneb | lbragstad: no, only TC if memory serves | 01:28 |
| tonyb | lbragstad: in the charter IIRC not the bylaws | 01:28 |
| lbragstad | e.g., if we have to change term conditions based on unpredictability in scheduling, which one will be more flexible | 01:28 |
| lbragstad | ack | 01:29 |
| zaneb | TC has total authority over the election of PTLs afaik | 01:29 |
| tonyb | lbragstad: Oh the TC charter is waaay more flexible that the bylaws | 01:30 |
| tonyb | the latter needs a formal vote from the foundation board and members (liek the one happening now) | 01:30 |
| tonyb | the charter is more like a std. code review + email discussion | 01:30 |
| lbragstad | got it - i was just checking if there was something in the bylaws related to team lead elections or terms length (like how the TC can't exceed 12 months) | 01:30 |
| tonyb | lbragstad: ok | 01:31 |
| zaneb | charter requires a 2/3 majority of the TC iirc, but still 1000x easier than bylaws :) | 01:33 |
| tonyb | zaneb: Yeah, functionally that's the same as say ... adding a new project team | 01:34 |
| gmann | for me, current proposal dates looks fine. though IMO making both election sync with either summit or release (release is much better) makes more consistency among future election schedule. for example: R-3 for PTL, R-6 for TC | 01:36 |
| lbragstad | gmann ++ | 01:36 |
| lbragstad | if we key everything of the release, we'll need a bylaw change though :) | 01:36 |
| tonyb | gmann: Thanks | 01:37 |
| tonyb | gmann: I'd like to add that we have better tooling now so as soon as we have a summit date we can set/expose the election timing | 01:37 |
| tonyb | gmann: We also need a release name to make it formal but that doesn't impact the setting of the tming | 01:38 |
| gmann | tonyb: nice thanks. | 01:39 |
| tonyb | So can the election officals merge https://review.openstack.org/629693 ? and annoucne the schedule on the mailing list(s) | 01:43 |
| * fungi catches up on office hour he almost entirely spaced on | 01:45 | |
| fungi | sorry! | 01:45 |
| tonyb | fungi: All good | 01:45 |
| tonyb | fungi: I assumed you weer on PTO or similar ;P | 01:46 |
| fungi | ahh, my input for election scheduling with tc hat on is same as it is with election official hat on, so not actually much to catch up on after all! ;) | 01:47 |
| tonyb | fungi: Thanks | 01:48 |
| fungi | zaneb: (some) bylaws changes actually get easier with the proposed bylaws amendments too | 01:52 |
| fungi | but yeah, still changing the tc charter (mostly) doesn't involve talking to the osf board of directors | 01:53 |
| fungi | at least if the bylaws changes are approved, we can ask the board to agree to change some parts which impact the operation of the openstack tc | 01:54 |
| fungi | without also requiring a vote of the osf membership | 01:54 |
| tonyb | that's nice | 01:55 |
| fungi | which is usually the hardest part | 01:55 |
| tonyb | So we're nrealy out of time ... Can I ask the TC members that are here to bring it up with the rest and then have dhellmann or mnaser vote +/-1 on https://review.openstack.org/629693 | 01:57 |
| tonyb | It'd be awesome if that could happen this week so the election officials can plan/communicate accordingly | 01:58 |
| fungi | sure, should we post to the ml about it and refer to the gerrit change for it i guess, to get slightly wider feedback given the recent uniqueness? | 01:58 |
| fungi | i don't personally see it being a huge deal, though the order of tc then ptl might take some by surprise | 01:59 |
| tonyb | fungi: I feel like this something the TC can decide and then communicate widely rather than open the discussion first but I'm happy to do start an email thread first if desired | 02:00 |
| fungi | nah, i agree it's probably fine | 02:01 |
| fungi | we'll see what the others think | 02:01 |
| tonyb | fungi: cool, and thanks | 02:01 |
| fungi | thanks for coming to tc office hour with something to make us feel useful! this particular slot is usually dead, dead, deadski | 02:02 |
| tonyb | fungi: \o/ | 02:03 |
| tonyb | fungi: I show up here when I have something | 02:03 |
| fungi | so dead i forgot to show up for the first 3/4 of it ;) | 02:03 |
| tonyb | fungi: I appreciate there being an office hours during my workign day :) | 02:03 |
| tonyb | ... it didn't help I had the time wrong in my calendar for $ages | 02:03 |
| * tonyb would show up about now and find it was done and dusted | 02:04 | |
| fungi | meh, there's usually still quite a few of us around and lurking | 02:04 |
| fungi | though i am probably due to put my meat-based operating system on standby for a little while | 02:04 |
| tonyb | fungi: LOL | 02:05 |
| fungi | fire up the ol' neural screen saver | 02:05 |
| * lbragstad has never heard that reference | 02:05 | |
| lbragstad | nive | 02:05 |
| lbragstad | nice* | 02:05 |
| tonyb | \o/ | 02:06 |
| gmann | tonyb: thanks, yeah we can bring up this in tomorrow office hour too where wider TC members are available or tag tc-members ^^ | 02:06 |
| tonyb | gmann: Thanks | 02:10 |
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| TheJulia | I wonder if calendar invites should be a thing. Not just for the TC, but it would help me mentally block the time off on this time slot | 02:29 |
| lbragstad | i know we publish icals | 02:38 |
| lbragstad | for meetings | 02:38 |
| gmann | we have for office hour too -http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Technical_Committee_Office_hours | 02:40 |
| lbragstad | yeah - i believe that ical is the one i've been using | 02:45 |
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| tonyb | Huh I didn't know that there was a seperate office hours ical #added to google | 03:26 |
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| ttx | tonyb: the general idea behind having PTL elections before TC elections is that people would have a better idea of their availability once they know the results of the PTL election. But I guess that cuts both ways | 09:14 |
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| ttx | We really should place the PTL election at the time that makes the most sense in the development cycle, and then place the TC one at a convenient place around that | 09:15 |
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| dhellmann | tonyb : I think it's worth starting a mailing list thread ([tc][ptl][all][election]?) to give folks a heads-up that the planning is happening, and that the order of elections is different from what people usually expect. I think that order is fine. | 14:02 |
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| fungi | doable if that's warranted, i think there were just concerns about delaying much longer since we've now just shy of four weeks until tc candidacy self-nomination opens | 14:41 |
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| smcginnis | fungi: Did you ever get a response from your question on the ML about stackalytics being forked now? | 15:21 |
| fungi | nope! | 15:24 |
| fungi | i have a feeling none of them are actually reading the mailing list and probably only see direct replies | 15:24 |
| smcginnis | Most likely true. | 15:24 |
| fungi | i think in the cases where they followed up on a reply in that thread, the author did a reply-to-all instead of reply-to-list | 15:25 |
| cdent | or they just don't feel like answering | 15:27 |
| openstackgerrit | Liam Young proposed openstack/governance master: Add Cinder Storage charm interface https://review.openstack.org/631251 | 15:27 |
| smcginnis | Another very plausible possibility. | 15:28 |
| fungi | there's https://github.com/Mirantis/stackalytics but its last commit was two years ago | 15:28 |
| smcginnis | So an internal fork even. | 15:29 |
| fungi | well, i tried a web search on the string "Stackalytics displays information collected from open sources" and didn't turn up any relevant hits outside the stackalytics website and our github mirror, but it might just be somewhere which isn't well-indexed by search engines | 15:30 |
| fungi | (string taken from the page footer, so assumed to be a literal somewhere) | 15:30 |
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| dhellmann | fungi , tonyb : I'm not quite sure what you're asking for. Are you looking for me to check your date math? or just say that it's OK to run the TC election before the PTL election in general? | 16:07 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: i think the election officials collectively, as a delegation of the tc, were seeking a thumbs-up from tc members on the proposed schedule (including the unprecedented ordering of tc-then-ptl) | 17:04 |
| fungi | smcginnis: seems it's a private fork they intend to reintegrate https://twitter.com/zer0tweets/status/1085578560423653376 | 17:04 |
| smcginnis | Hopefully that ends up happening. | 17:05 |
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| notmyname | fungi: clearly the problem here is that you didn't ask on twitter ;-) | 17:18 |
| notmyname | (I know how much you love twitter) | 17:19 |
| fungi | i know someone who knows someone | 17:19 |
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| ttx | public shaming is the only way to get answers those days | 17:31 |
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| ttx | or better yet, passive-aggressive public shaming | 17:31 |
| ttx | (you can tell I had a great day) | 17:31 |
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| dhellmann | fungi : ack. I think it's fine to go ahead | 18:23 |
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| cdent | I reckon the tc role thread may be starting to play itself out, but it might be more interesting if more tc-members chose to participate | 19:22 |
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| tonyb | dhellmann: I clicked +W so we can announce the schedule this week. Which is basically 1 month before the email preference deadline | 19:59 |
| openstackgerrit | Douglas Mendizábal proposed openstack/governance master: Add Ansible roles for managing HSM software https://review.openstack.org/631324 | 20:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Douglas Mendizábal proposed openstack/governance master: Add Ansible roles for managing HSM software https://review.openstack.org/631324 | 20:08 |
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| bsilverman | Can anyone tell me why the COA is being discontinued? | 21:39 |
| fungi | bsilverman: i haven't heard the precise reasons behind it, but jbryce might be able to speak to that if he's around | 21:52 |
| fungi | note it was an activity managed by the osf, not the openstack technical committee | 21:52 |
| bsilverman | Okay, I'll as Jonathan | 21:53 |
| bsilverman | s/as/ask | 21:53 |
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| fungi | bsilverman: if you find out, i'm sure many of us in here would be interested in the answer too | 23:52 |
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