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| fungi | tc-members and community at large, it's that wednesday office hour time once more | 01:00 |
|---|---|---|
| TheJulia | o/ | 01:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 01:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 01:00 |
| zaneb | o/ | 01:00 |
| fungi | looks like we have quite a few on hand from the tc if any of the community have something to bring up | 01:01 |
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| gmann | i am thinking if many of community members does not notice our office hour (people not in this channel or just forget). may be a mail of saying "TC is up for office hour for next 1 hour if anyone want to discuss anything join us on #openstack-tc" | 01:03 |
| fungi | worth a try! | 01:04 |
| fungi | i recall EmilienM doing that once or twice | 01:04 |
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| fungi | thanks for sending that, gmann! | 01:30 |
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| gmann | np!. not sure people notice due to almost EOD in USA but its morning in Asia if anyone want to show up. | 01:35 |
| spotz | Just thought I'd pop i and go boo:) | 01:36 |
| fungi | you're getting me even more in the mood for hallowe'en | 01:37 |
| spotz | Devstack and magnum is definitely a trick:( | 01:37 |
| spotz | fungi: How you doing with all the weather craziness? | 01:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sean McGinnis proposed openstack/governance master: Update sphinx extension logging https://review.openstack.org/611132 | 02:35 |
| fungi | spotz: tired, but managing! | 02:36 |
| fungi | speaking of which, i should get some sleep. passed out for a bit halfway through tc office hour | 02:37 |
| spotz | fungi: Get some rest, I'm gonna attempt to redo this lesson I lost a day on then go to bed | 02:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Gage Hugo proposed openstack/governance master: Retire project Anchor - Step 5 https://review.openstack.org/611187 | 03:56 |
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| mriedem | scas: mnaser: interested in your thoughts from a deployment project perspective on the upgrade-checkers goal https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2003657 - should we track deployment projects against that to at least integrate running checks for projects that already have the command, like nova? | 14:01 |
| mriedem | that might be a decent goal for stein for deployment projects because then they have one done as a precedent for the others | 14:01 |
| mriedem | one done == nova, others == upgrade checks added to service projects in stein | 14:02 |
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| scas | mriedem: it'll be some time before i can definitively speak to any meaningful progress in stein due to code detritus and other sundry fun upstream. i'm back in ye olden dayes integrating rocky | 14:07 |
| scas | if there's something distributed in the rdo or ubuntu cloud packages that can be interfaced with, that gives a strong 'maybe', but chef does tend to stay behind the coordinated release because people/time | 14:10 |
| mriedem | nova-status upgrade check has been around since ocata, | 14:13 |
| mriedem | so it should be in those packages | 14:13 |
| mriedem | i've just gone ahead and marked the kolla and osa tasks as done in https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2003657 since they run the nova check and that can serve as precedent for the stein goal | 14:14 |
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| evrardjp | mriedem: well I thought you meant a "complete" implementation, which won't be achieved until we adopt all the project's commands I guess? | 14:27 |
| scas | mriedem: i've been working with upgrades a bit using chef, but it hasn't been a main focus. i'll have to toy around with upgrade check using what's in my arsenal | 14:27 |
| evrardjp | but the pattern is set I guess... | 14:27 |
| mriedem | evrardjp: right i don't think we should wait for *all* projects to be done before the deployment projects can start integrating them, | 14:29 |
| mriedem | especially since some projects don't have real checks, like cyborg and zun | 14:29 |
| mriedem | so i think a decent goal for deployment projects for *this* goal is just integrate the nova check to see precedent | 14:29 |
| mriedem | the actual goal doc itself mentions deployment projects as not being required to do the goal because of this, but i think it's worth people working on if they can | 14:30 |
| mriedem | red hat has like 20 people working on nova/tripleo, i'd think one of them could integrate the status check for nova to tripleo :) | 14:31 |
| scas | openstack-chef is a couple of people. roughly five not-fully-dedicated at last count, including myself. i'll be honest that i've only just learned about upgrade check | 14:34 |
| evrardjp | mriedem: sorry that's not really meant. I meant maybe deployment projects should be tracking upstream project's progress and be therefore in a separate goal | 14:35 |
| evrardjp | that's not what I really meant* | 14:35 |
| evrardjp | but I guess in the meantime a "done" would do as a "implemented a working prototype" ... | 14:36 |
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| evrardjp | the same way as some projects will do a first series of change to introduce the feature, and then increase the amount of real checks | 14:36 |
| mriedem | scas: there are a few developers from NEC that have stepped up to help out, so we do have people working on this that aren't regular contributors to all projects | 14:38 |
| mriedem | as long as they know ruby they could probably help here... | 14:38 |
| * ttx is back from China, but still traveling until Friday morning | 14:38 | |
| ttx | meeting with Le Bon Coin (Zuul + OpenSTack user, big in France) in an hour | 14:39 |
| mriedem | hell i don't know ruby but i could probably copy/paste/change my way into making something work | 14:39 |
| ttx | kind of a cool story, they adopted most of the OpenSTack development tooling (including reno or sphinx) to accelerate their internal development | 14:39 |
| ttx | will learn more in a few | 14:39 |
| TheJulia | wb ttx | 14:46 |
| TheJulia | ttx: that sounds awesome | 14:46 |
| scas | mriedem: level of effort isn't the issue. balancing the work with time is, however | 14:48 |
| scas | there's a fair amount of testing effort that takes place outside of zuul, to cover the use cases that zuul can't help with | 14:49 |
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| mriedem | like upgrades | 14:50 |
| mriedem | yeah | 14:50 |
| scas | i've been working on getting better documentation for others to bang around on it, but i am beholden to ENOTIME at the end of the day | 14:58 |
| zaneb | coreycb: comment you're replying to was also from me :) | 15:20 |
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| coreycb | zaneb: ha! | 15:26 |
| coreycb | zaneb: anyway i'm not trying to troll or anything I'm just trying to make a specific point | 15:27 |
| zaneb | coreycb: I totally agree with your point. we need to make sure that projects test with the versions that distros will use | 15:28 |
| coreycb | zaneb: ok good we agree. perhaps we'll eventually get there. | 15:28 |
| zaneb | I think when python 2 goes away and everyone is on python 3 it'll be harder to ignore | 15:29 |
| coreycb | zaneb: i wonder if in the near term, ifra could handle adding py37 unit tests proposals only for projects that we find are failing py37 unit tests | 15:30 |
| zaneb | python 2 has been static for so long that we got comfortable | 15:30 |
| coreycb | zaneb: agreed | 15:30 |
| zaneb | coreycb: AIUI non-voting jobs shouldn't be a problem because they won't block up the gate | 15:31 |
| coreycb | zaneb: well i don't know that non-voting is worth the effort. non-voting tends to get ignored. | 15:31 |
| coreycb | zaneb: but these are self testing PRs anyway so they can't land until the tests pass. | 15:32 |
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| zaneb | coreycb: you said failing jobs so I assumed they'd be non-voting | 15:33 |
| zaneb | btw FWIW I proposed automatically adding non-voting py36 jobs to everything back in June, but it got shot down: https://review.openstack.org/572535 | 15:35 |
| coreycb | zaneb: ok, so to be clear what i meant was projects that fail unit tests in our package builds for ubuntu | 15:35 |
| zaneb | ah, ok | 15:35 |
| coreycb | zaneb: thanks for making headway, apparently we're progressing allowing non-voting pyx.y jobs :) | 15:36 |
| coreycb | zaneb: but honestly ushering 300+ reviews for non-voting seems like a lot of effort for something that folks probably won't look at | 15:37 |
| coreycb | i don't know how many projects there are, that's my guess | 15:38 |
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| coreycb | zaneb: anyway, maybe adding non-voting for the projects i know have failures could at least help me with harder evidence with bugs | 15:39 |
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| coreycb | zaneb: and if we took that route the resources may not be as impactful, allowing py37 unit tests to run on every change. | 15:44 |
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| TheJulia | each repo's change would need to land once it passes, so it could be "as it lands it can be voting" | 15:47 |
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| coreycb | TheJulia: yes if it's voting it would need to pass before landing. one of the problems though is that infra only has so many resources, so we can't just go add py37 unit tests to every project. | 15:53 |
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| TheJulia | coreycb: projects just under governance, in a rolling fashion? 10% a week? | 16:19 |
| coreycb | TheJulia: that would be reasonable to me. still though I don't know at what point infra would be overloaded but perhaps at 10% a week that could better be gauged. | 16:21 |
| TheJulia | not all projects are going to immediately land it too | 16:23 |
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| coreycb | TheJulia: right. which is also a bit of a predicament as to whether that's any better than non-voting but it's probably better from an infra pov. | 16:26 |
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| TheJulia | we can't exactly force it upon everyone, but letting them evolve and take the right path is likely the best thing to do. We're giving them a target, if that target can merge tomorrow because the code is good, then \o/, if not and it identifies issues then \o/ | 16:35 |
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| scas | non-voting jobs that are consistently failing do have an impact. they use up valuable capacity. in openstack-chef, we limit the opendev pipeline to a single-instance, voting job. additional tooling aids with more scriptomanual testing outside of zuul | 17:00 |
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| coreycb | TheJulia: ok well if the required folks (TC/infra) approve of that approach then I can move forward with it | 17:01 |
| TheJulia | well, nv jobs will be easy to merge, but they might not get attention, an outstanding review gives greater tracking ability. | 17:18 |
| TheJulia | Just kind of putting that out there metnally | 17:18 |
| TheJulia | I think zaneb raises a good point about keeping py35 for at least the time being, but maybe some projects might be wiling to remove the gate check for it too since some things are fairly static (and it would still be local... for example I use py35 for my unit testing locally) | 17:20 |
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| coreycb | TheJulia: some projects definitely seemed ok with dropping py35, but some were not. i think though that the TC requires py3.5 for stein from my current understanding. | 17:36 |
| TheJulia | Mixed consensus | 17:36 |
| coreycb | yes, most of this has been! :) | 17:37 |
| TheJulia | yeah :( | 17:44 |
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| scas | downstream, on the deploy end, python 3 is more of a binary decision. once i get to needing a py3 job, there will be another one using minimal resources | 18:10 |
| scas | the actual version is less my own decision and "whatever y'all land on" | 18:11 |
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| mnaser | off for a few days and there is thousands of messages to read :( | 18:42 |
| mnaser | i just cant catch up with all of this buffer honestly | 18:46 |
| mnaser | i dunno how y'all do it | 18:46 |
| scas | "pick one or two things and follow along the best you can" was what was told to me some years ago, which seems to scale to most roles | 18:47 |
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| fungi | mnaser: everything important is also on the ml and/or in governance reviews as far as i know | 18:53 |
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| cdent | mnaser: I used to read all the eaveasdrop logs for a full week when creating the tc reports, and it was challenging, to say the least. I agree with fungi: the important stuff is in email/gerrit | 19:05 |
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| fungi | i tried to at least steer important-looking discussions to the ml or propose governance changes for them | 19:07 |
| zaneb | yeah, if you read all of http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-October/135626.html and the governance reviews then you should be up to date | 19:12 |
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| * cdent decides to disagree with both smcginnis_vaca and fungi , for sake of having some real talk | 20:23 | |
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| fungi | feel free! i love a good debate | 20:43 |
| fungi | any point in particular you disagree on? | 20:43 |
| fungi | aha, you disagreed on the reviews via comments. excellent | 20:45 |
| * fungi was short on context there for a bit | 20:46 | |
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