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| ttx | Agree, low activity is ok... but to remain included in the release (and as an official project team) those need a human to care enough to push a couple of changes per cycle and make it part of the release. Otherwise it's likely to cause more problems (critical bugs, security issues) that would taint the rest of the official release | 09:42 |
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| cdent | dims do you already have the health review of kuryr in hand, or is there more to do? | 10:48 |
| cdent | pabelanger: same for you and masakari? | 10:50 |
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| cdent | My efforts to reach ian bicking have so far failed | 11:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | Chandan Kumar proposed openstack/governance master: Add tempest-ansible project under tripleo https://review.openstack.org/589133 | 12:01 |
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| dhellmann | cdent : I wonder if someone else has already taken over paste/pastedeploy | 12:25 |
| dhellmann | or forked, I guess | 12:26 |
| cdent | dhellmann: I've been lightly searching for evidence but not yet found any | 12:26 |
| smcginnis | Are there major unaddressed bugs with paste that we are aware of? | 12:30 |
| cdent | smcginnis: more like expected bugs: https://bitbucket.org/ianb/paste/pull-requests/41/ | 12:32 |
| smcginnis | I bet they have URLS that don't use https too. :) | 12:34 |
| dims | cdent : havent' reached out to dmellado for kuryr yet. will do that today | 12:35 |
| smcginnis | Most of those paste PRs do look like good things to merge. | 12:36 |
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| scas | last week, bringing up the rear, chef openstack branched its stable/queens. publisher issues have precluded an announcement, pending a state of the kitchen | 14:16 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: I18n Extra-ATCs for Rocky https://review.openstack.org/586751 | 14:17 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Remove Security project team https://review.openstack.org/586896 | 14:17 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: fix markup for links https://review.openstack.org/588249 | 14:17 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: remove placeholder file from stein goals https://review.openstack.org/588250 | 14:17 |
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| mriedem | is FFU a SIG now? | 14:25 |
| smcginnis | There is an upgrades sig I believe. | 14:25 |
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| fungi | interesting... cyborg doesn't do weekly meetings on irc as far as i can find from eavesdrop (which is fine if they don't need any), but their drivers subteam meets on zoom? http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-August/132903.html | 16:24 |
| smcginnis | I think I saw that. I haven't looked lately, but I think most of the cyborg team are/were from China. | 16:28 |
| smcginnis | That probably results in less IRC activity for the project. | 16:28 |
| ttx | mriedem: yes FFU is part of the "Upgrades" SIG, and there was a recent thread on the ML about the SIG recent [in]activity | 16:31 |
| mriedem | wait wait wait, you're telling me creating a sig didn't magically make people appear to work on stuff?! | 16:32 |
| mriedem | sorry, i couldn't help | 16:33 |
| mriedem | fungi: smcginnis: between lenovo and hauwei working on cyborg in china, i wouldn't be surprised if most discussion happens over wecaht | 16:33 |
| mriedem | 16:33 | |
| fungi | ttx: different from the thread on the self-healing sig [in]activity? | 16:35 |
| ttx | mriedem: that thread develops an interesting theory on why SIGs are popular at events but less popular in between | 16:37 |
| ttx | mriedem: that does not make them necessarily useless | 16:37 |
| mriedem | i couldn't easily find a thread on upgrade sig | 16:37 |
| ttx | fungi: I think so yes | 16:37 |
| mriedem | and inactivity | 16:37 |
| * ttx digs | 16:37 | |
| ttx | I may be confusing two threads | 16:37 |
| smcginnis | I thought I saw something just within the last week or two. | 16:38 |
| mriedem | things are popular at events because you have like-minded people in a room talking about solving a shared problem, | 16:38 |
| mriedem | but then everyone goes back to reality with no time to work on said things, | 16:38 |
| mriedem | is that the gist? | 16:38 |
| ttx | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-July/132413.html | 16:38 |
| ttx | That would be the upgrades SIG thread ^ | 16:39 |
| mriedem | oh heh i saw that subject but assumed it was a literal reboot/poweroff | 16:39 |
| mriedem | as in nova reboot :) | 16:39 |
| ttx | topic overload > reboot | 16:39 |
| ttx | Also http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-August/132862.html | 16:40 |
| ttx | which is where the theory is discussed | 16:40 |
| ttx | mriedem: yes, that's the gist of it | 16:41 |
| ttx | Looks like temp just dropped below 100F/38C and I can try to go outside again | 16:42 |
| smcginnis | Sounds crazy there. I've only been in the fall and spring when it's still a bit chilly, so can't even imagine it being that warm there. | 16:43 |
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| dhellmann | EmilienM : did anyone from the murano team ever respond to your health check email from 17 july? | 17:27 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: nope | 17:28 |
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| dhellmann | EmilienM : I found something from Rong Zhu talking about IRC meetings and ZTE. I guess that was it? | 17:29 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: sorry, yes | 17:30 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: I got no answer from Tricircle though | 17:30 |
| dhellmann | ag | 17:30 |
| dhellmann | ah | 17:30 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: I'll work on that this week | 17:32 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : ack | 17:33 |
| dhellmann | ttx: did you have a chance to contact storlets? I can do it if you're still looking for ways to cool off | 17:33 |
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| dhellmann | smcginnis , cdent : the detail in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tc-board-foundation is coming out ok. I would like to have enough there to share it with anyone we were going to try to invite to participate in a discussion, so they can see the sorts of questions that would be raised and prepare in advance -- we're all likely to find the discussion more productive that way. Do you have more to add to the document? | 17:48 |
| cdent | dhellmann: I've added one thing | 17:51 |
| cdent | I'll keep thinking | 17:52 |
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| dhellmann | ok, thanks | 17:56 |
| dhellmann | the hand signals bit from https://larahogan.me/blog/facilitating-working-group-meetings/ seems interesting; I wonder how that would work out for us | 18:00 |
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| cdent | dhellmann: those are useful, but the critical factor is having an active facillitator | 18:05 |
| dhellmann | sure | 18:05 |
| cdent | (one who has the power to "pause") | 18:05 |
| cdent | having the signals would help to lend some authenticity to the idea of facillitation | 18:06 |
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| mriedem | dtroyer: mnaser: fyi https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ugp1FVWMsu4x3KgrmPf7HGX8Mh1n80v-KVzweSDZunU/edit?usp=sharing - i plan on charting up some of that for high level takeaways, and then i'll post links to those in the ML | 18:43 |
| mnaser | mriedem: that's really interesting, thank you for taking the time to building all that out, some really interesting patches | 18:45 |
| mnaser | dtroyer: will the starlingx team be at the ptg by any chance | 18:46 |
| mriedem | dean will be :) | 18:46 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: I will add more to the etherpad if/when I can think of more. I know there is more to add, but haven't been able to free up enough brain cycles for it. | 18:48 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : ack, thanks | 18:49 |
| mriedem | smcginnis: coincidentally starlingx has a feature to allow swapping out brain cache | 18:49 |
| smcginnis | :) | 18:49 |
| dtroyer | mnaser: we will be there with a full day room on Wed | 18:51 |
| dtroyer | mriedem: stx also cures the common boredom and re-programs your LED lights to flash the status of your edge cloud nodes | 18:53 |
| dtroyer | :) | 18:53 |
| mriedem | we have gone cyan | 18:53 |
| mriedem | notify the canucks | 18:54 |
| dtroyer | mriedem: that spreadsheet… you did that from the squash? | 18:55 |
| dtroyer | mind if I put some mysterious numbers in column F? I want to start matching that up with the patch files I'm still trying to get cleared to publish | 18:58 |
| mriedem | dtroyer: yes | 18:59 |
| mriedem | started going through the diff from top to bottom and clone the repo locally for when i needed context on linking changes from the api down the stack | 18:59 |
| smcginnis | We should probably talk about py37 at some point. | 18:59 |
| mriedem | dtroyer: you should have comment auth on the spreadsheet, is that good enough? | 19:00 |
| dtroyer | mriedem: yes. we have a master sheet with storyboard links and review pointers (for those that exist) that I want to tie this all together | 19:01 |
| dtroyer | tried to do it directly in storyboard but it isn't quite up to it without serios query scripting, PM | 19:01 |
| cdent | smcginnis: yes | 19:02 |
| dtroyer | s not liking that route | 19:02 |
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| fungi | dtroyer: i'm curious about the use case for the server group messaging feature. was there some reason traditional networking wasn't possible? | 19:41 |
| fungi | allowing servers to pass messages back and forth sounds like the quintessential description of traditional computer networks | 19:42 |
| fungi | so i have to assume there's some corner case where that simply wasn't possible, otherwise that's a rather massive wheel to be reinventing from scratch | 19:42 |
| * fungi is reminded of a time long, long ago when he had a data center full of filtering ethernet bridges with control channels over rs232 serial, but that was entirely due to hardware limitations | 19:45 | |
| dtroyer | fungi: context? I have too many things in my head atm… | 19:45 |
| fungi | dtroyer: row 24 in mriedem's spreadsheet | 19:45 |
| fungi | "Server group messaging. Creates a channel between the guests and their host in a server group so that guests can send messages to each other. Compute would cast the messages to conductor which would then broadcast the message to all servers in the group." | 19:45 |
| dtroyer | also, The People Who Know are supposedly reading the starlingx-discuss list these days… | 19:45 |
| mriedem | cfriesen is out this week | 19:46 |
| mriedem | but he knew about it | 19:46 |
| fungi | awesome | 19:46 |
| dtroyer | I'm trying to match those lines up to the specific patches... | 19:46 |
| mriedem | someone needed a low-latency way for servers to communicate with each other | 19:46 |
| mriedem | so they create a channel between the compute host and the guests, | 19:46 |
| mriedem | and route the messages through nova-conductor using rpc | 19:46 |
| dtroyer | they also cranked down wait times to 5ms in a number of cases, so that isn't surprising | 19:46 |
| mriedem | cfriesen said it was more of a pain in the ass than it was worth, | 19:47 |
| fungi | forwarding messages over rpc through the conductor was lower latency than ethernet? | 19:47 |
| mriedem | and they were likely going to deprecate/remove it | 19:47 |
| fungi | neat | 19:47 |
| mriedem | fungi: nova-conductor was really just the orchestrator, | 19:48 |
| mriedem | nova-compute would get the message from the guest, | 19:48 |
| mriedem | cast to conductor to find the other members of the group to route to them | 19:48 |
| fungi | ahh, so maybe they had faster networking between the compute nodes than they allowed the guests to get interfaces directly in | 19:48 |
| mriedem | shrug | 19:49 |
| mriedem | first slide i'm doing is a disclaimer to say "i'm not authority on this" | 19:49 |
| fungi | "direct questions to the starlingx-discuss ml" ;) | 19:50 |
| jroll | edge sites tend to have limited bandwidth, too. so could be that letting nova do the fan-out took up less bandwidth | 19:50 |
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| jroll | like, each edge site would only get the message via WAN once, instead of a guest in site A spamming N messages to site B, where site B has N guests | 19:51 |
| mriedem | heh i didn't know http://lists.starlingx.io/pipermail/starlingx-discuss/ existed | 19:51 |
| mriedem | nor do i plan on subscribing | 19:51 |
| jroll | you sure seem interested in discussing it :P | 19:51 |
| mriedem | after spending ~5 days looking at this, i need to feel justified in the time spent | 19:52 |
| fungi | entirely fair | 19:52 |
| mriedem | HA http://lists.starlingx.io/pipermail/starlingx-discuss/2018-June/000001.html | 19:52 |
| mriedem | 0 responses | 19:52 |
| dtroyer | heh, pm's don't always start the _right_ discussions with 3 people subscribed to a list :) | 19:53 |
| mriedem | "question: WHO IS READY TO ROCK AND/OR ROLL?!?!!" | 19:53 |
| * fungi feels like he's just stepped into a böc concert | 19:54 | |
| * dtroyer is ready to try to open-source Tickemaster's seat selection algorithms next… | 19:54 | |
| clarkb | jroll: multicast :P | 19:56 |
| jroll | multicast across the internet, I like it :P | 19:56 |
| clarkb | I seem to recall we had to dosimilar for an ISS experiment at PSU once upon a time | 19:57 |
| clarkb | across the internet and space! | 19:57 |
| jroll | heh, sounds fun | 19:58 |
| cdent | I miss the mbone | 19:58 |
| dtroyer | ISS == extreme edge | 19:58 |
| jroll | the edgiest of edges | 19:58 |
| mriedem | dtroyer: btw, since you're not in the nova channel but your name is tied to the vif_model thing | 20:01 |
| mriedem | newton: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304582/ and ocata: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/362287/ | 20:01 |
| dtroyer | mriedem: I owe you $COLD_BEVERAGE or three for this spreadsheet… | 20:01 |
| mriedem | \o/ | 20:01 |
| dtroyer | mriedem: ah, I should join there, that was meant to be a place-holder for WRS to fill in | 20:02 |
| zaneb | dhellmann: any meeting ground rules that involve pointing at people are inappropriate in a multicultural environment | 20:03 |
| fungi | huh... so the next board meeting happens during tuesday of the ptg? guess i won't be dialling in to listen to that one: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/foundation/2018-August/002607.html | 20:07 |
| fungi | no, wait, that's the tuesday _after_ the ptg | 20:07 |
| fungi | so i guess i can. excellent | 20:07 |
| clarkb | ya the week after | 20:10 |
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| dhellmann | zaneb : good point. I was more thinking about the general idea than the specific gestures, but I wouldn't have thought of that issue | 20:15 |
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| cmurphy | pabelanger: mnaser I added some notes to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_health_tracker#Puppet_Openstack | 20:36 |
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| fungi | TheJulia: i caught up with refstack people in their irc channel and updated https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/stein-leaderless with a link to the discussion and a summary of the present state of thinking there | 21:45 |
| TheJulia | fungi: thanks, it completely slipped my mind :( | 21:52 |
| mriedem | dtroyer: mnaser: bombs away | 22:03 |
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| * dtroyer ducks, and coincidently just finished the first pass through that spreadsheet... | 22:10 | |
| clarkb | mriedem: dtroyer an interesting one to me is the ionice for image conversions. Might be better to avoid conversions entirely and use the appropriate image format for nova? | 22:19 |
| clarkb | this is something we've run into with infra as well and for our uses specifically we've found that giving the cloud the format it wants its typically the best approach | 22:20 |
| dtroyer | mriedem: nice summary, especially from a squashed pile-o-bits. I'm still pushing to publish the individual patches, with interesting (useful) commit messages… | 22:20 |
| dtroyer | clarkb: soooo many things in TC were done directly for making customers happy without regard to such thinking… | 22:21 |
| dtroyer | oops, I said that out loud | 22:21 |
| * dtroyer grasps for a bit-eeraser | 22:21 | |
| mriedem | clarkb: heh, i threw that in at the very end just b/c i had the space | 22:30 |
| mriedem | didn't think ionice would be that interesting | 22:30 |
| clarkb | mriedem: I mostly just mention it because maybe its a user education thing (I know it took us a while to figure out, why do our node launches all fail once a day? its because we uploaded qcow2 and cloud needed raw so then it took 15 minute sto convert the image and our builds timed out) | 22:30 |
| clarkb | on a nova deployment side the default is to launch raw, but we don't really say that to anyone that raw is the thing that nova expects by default | 22:31 |
| mriedem | where does the cloud tell you it needs raw? | 22:31 |
| clarkb | mriedem: it doesn't thats the other problem | 22:32 |
| mriedem | heh | 22:32 |
| mriedem | well there you go | 22:32 |
| clarkb | mriedem: we've learned through trial and error and encoded it into openstack client config | 22:32 |
| mriedem | ah | 22:32 |
| clarkb | some clouds will tell you if you ask nicely | 22:32 |
| fungi | mostly just through meat-based apis | 22:48 |
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| mriedem | i don't have great ideas on how to expose that to non-admin users | 23:31 |
| mriedem | would there be security exposures to doing so? | 23:31 |
| mriedem | also, isn't the format in the image meta? and couldn't an admin create host aggregates for images of a specific format that should go to hosts configured for those formats? | 23:32 |
| mriedem | no one probably does because they don't normally timeout? | 23:32 |
| clarkb | ya once the image conversion is cached its fine | 23:33 |
| clarkb | its just during that short period of time it gets sad | 23:33 |
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