| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 00:06 | |
| mnaser | throwing this out here .. https://twitter.com/mikal/status/991812522666741760 .. do we want to maybe think about getting projects to switch from rootwrap -> privsep as a community goal? | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| mnaser | (i can bring this up tomorrow but jsut something i spotted now) | 00:07 |
| *** lbragstad has quit IRC | 00:17 | |
| *** mriedem_inlaws has quit IRC | 00:23 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 00:41 | |
| *** mriedem has joined #openstack-tc | 00:41 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 01:01 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 01:12 | |
| dhellmann | mnaser : it's on the list; I think we needed an owner for it | 01:20 |
| dhellmann | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/community-goals | 01:20 |
| *** rosmaita has quit IRC | 01:32 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 01:42 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 01:47 | |
| *** gcb has joined #openstack-tc | 02:00 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 02:21 | |
| *** lbragstad has joined #openstack-tc | 02:24 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 02:25 | |
| *** kfox1111 has quit IRC | 02:32 | |
| *** kfox1111 has joined #openstack-tc | 02:32 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 02:38 | |
| mnaser | dhellmann: I’ve never seen that ether pad before, I’ll book mark it. I was looking at the goals page published on openstack.org | 02:41 |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 02:43 | |
| *** mriedem has quit IRC | 02:52 | |
| *** spsurya has joined #openstack-tc | 02:54 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 03:01 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 03:07 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 03:08 | |
| dhellmann | mnaser : I think you may mean this one? https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/index.html | 03:23 |
| mnaser | dhellmann: ah yes, that document | 03:24 |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 04:06 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 04:13 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 04:18 | |
| *** pabelanger has quit IRC | 04:31 | |
| *** pabelanger has joined #openstack-tc | 04:32 | |
| *** ianychoi_ has joined #openstack-tc | 04:38 | |
| *** ianychoi has quit IRC | 04:41 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 04:50 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 04:54 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 05:21 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 05:26 | |
| *** ricolin has joined #openstack-tc | 05:38 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 06:30 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 06:35 | |
| *** eumel8 has joined #openstack-tc | 06:52 | |
| *** ianychoi_ is now known as ianychoi | 07:00 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 07:02 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 07:07 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 07:38 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 07:43 | |
| *** jpich has joined #openstack-tc | 07:55 | |
| *** dtantsur|afk is now known as dtantsur | 10:50 | |
| *** persia has joined #openstack-tc | 11:06 | |
| *** rosmaita has joined #openstack-tc | 11:48 | |
| *** gcb has quit IRC | 12:09 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 12:18 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 12:22 | |
| *** ricolin has quit IRC | 12:42 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 12:58 | |
| *** mriedem has joined #openstack-tc | 13:20 | |
| *** eumel8 has quit IRC | 13:28 | |
| *** ricolin has joined #openstack-tc | 13:30 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 14:19 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 14:22 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 14:23 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 14:23 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 14:24 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 14:24 | |
| *** hongbin has joined #openstack-tc | 14:24 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 14:28 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 14:29 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 14:30 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 14:30 | |
| *** pabelanger has quit IRC | 14:35 | |
| *** pabelanger has joined #openstack-tc | 14:35 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 14:52 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 14:52 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 14:52 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 14:53 | |
| EmilienM | o/ | 14:58 |
| zaneb | EmilienM: you're early ;) | 14:58 |
| EmilienM | for one time I don't have meeting conflict and can properly attend an office hour | 14:59 |
| ttx | o/ | 14:59 |
| ttx | I can only attend the first 15-ish minutes | 15:00 |
| fungi | tc-members (and anyone else): office hour! | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 15:00 |
| mnaser | o/ | 15:00 |
| ttx | we seem to have only one nominee for the chair position. Do you think I should wait more before approving Doug ? | 15:01 |
| EmilienM | I think we could give more time, it's only what, 3 days? | 15:01 |
| ttx | ok, just did not want to be the blocker here | 15:02 |
| EmilienM | maybe give it a whole week, so 4 more days? | 15:02 |
| ttx | ok, thatworks | 15:02 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm fine waiting | 15:03 |
| fungi | given we don't run formal weekly meetings any longer, i suppose the timing for electing a new chair isn't quite as tight | 15:03 |
| ttx | indeed | 15:03 |
| dhellmann | I do want to make sure there's some time for us to prep before the meeting in vancouver | 15:03 |
| dhellmann | but we can start that without making things formal | 15:04 |
| fungi | makes sense | 15:04 |
| mnaser | ++ | 15:04 |
| pabelanger | morning | 15:04 |
| dhellmann | btw, here are the details for that meeting: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/20May2018BoardMeeting | 15:04 |
| ttx | dhellmann: would be great to clarify the meeting time on that Sunday, it's still unclear if it's full day or just afternoon | 15:04 |
| zaneb | cdent is the only one who hasn't voted/commented on the chair, and he's on holiday, so actually there's probably no point waiting any further | 15:05 |
| ttx | Also last time I heard, the TC+UC+Board+Staff dinner would happen on Saturday evening ? | 15:05 |
| * ttx tries to get confirmation of that | 15:05 | |
| dhellmann | saturday? | 15:05 |
| * zaneb changes vote to +1 | 15:05 | |
| * dhellmann checks his flight times | 15:06 | |
| zaneb | I wish I had known that before I booked a flight yesterday | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | I feel like I've missed the last few of these because I didn't find out about the plans until too late | 15:07 |
| mnaser | i will rebook my flights to be able to attend the meeting | 15:08 |
| ttx | just a sec, trying to get confirmation | 15:08 |
| mnaser | few more summit related commitments came in so i will be coming in earlier to hopefully attend | 15:08 |
| ttx | There is a pre-summit social event around diversity on Sunday evening, thanks Red Hat | 15:09 |
| ttx | so we proposed to Alan to do the leadership dinner on Saturday instead | 15:09 |
| ttx | but he did not confirm yet | 15:09 |
| EmilienM | if you need a restaurant recommendation, I'm local ;-) | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | details for that diversity event: https://www.openstack.org/summit/vancouver-2018/summit-schedule/events/21791/weareopenstack-diversity-happy-hour-rsvp-required | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : I'm counting on you for that :-) | 15:11 |
| ttx | EmilienM: I think it happens at your place | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | and how many does your dining room hold? | 15:11 |
| fungi | hopefully your living room can fit 50-75 | 15:11 |
| ttx | so.. anything else you need from me ? About to disappear | 15:11 |
| EmilienM | I think we can fit if we don't sit lol | 15:11 |
| EmilienM | no, it's very small, renting is pricy downtown | 15:12 |
| EmilienM | ttx: indeed, zaneb is right I think we can go ahead with the chair election | 15:12 |
| fungi | so the joint leadership meeting is all day this time, not a board meeting in the morning with the joint leadership meeting in the afternoon? (that's what the agenda seems to imply anyway). if so, great improvement! | 15:14 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yes, Alan said that since the board was able to meet recently and clear their backlog they didn't feel they needed dedicated time that day | 15:15 |
| fungi | great | 15:15 |
| ttx | dhellmann: let me know if you'd rather wait or I can push the approve button now | 15:15 |
| ttx | I just need to leave in 2 minutes :) | 15:15 |
| dhellmann | ttx: let's go ahead, if everyone concurs | 15:16 |
| ttx | I'm fine reverting if anyone else shows up in the next 3 days | 15:16 |
| dims | o/ | 15:16 |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 15:16 | |
| * ttx sneakily retains approval rights | 15:16 | |
| dhellmann | ttx: sure, that works | 15:16 |
| dims | LOL ttx | 15:17 |
| ttx | dhellmann: alright, you're in as soon as Zuul is finished with you | 15:17 |
| * dhellmann has been wrestling with zuul a lot lately | 15:17 | |
| ttx | and... I run. | 15:17 |
| EmilienM | congrats & thanks dhellmann (and thanks ttx for the long term service) | 15:17 |
| ttx | "I'll be back" | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | yes, thanks, ttx! and safe travels | 15:17 |
| pabelanger | +1 | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | Over the past couple of weeks we discussed the idea of checking in on what sponsor companies are contributing to. I have been working on some tools in the goal-tools repository to produce those numbers. If you have specific sorts of ways you would like to see that data, let me know. | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | For example, I can now feed an arbitrary gerrit query in and get as output how many contributions only sponsor companies have made that match the query. | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | there is, of course, no documentation for this tool, yet | 15:18 |
| EmilienM | it's an interesting challenge when some contributors don't have proper affiliation (by their emails) | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | yes, the data is very messy | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | I stole the stackalytics organization mapping stuff for this new tool | 15:19 |
| EmilienM | we have affiliation on https://www.openstack.org/profile/ but I'm not sure everyone updates it | 15:19 |
| *** kumarmn_ has joined #openstack-tc | 15:19 | |
| EmilienM | and I'm not sure there is a public API for this information | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | at the scale of numbers I'm looking at, I don't think a few people here and there without data is a real problem | 15:20 |
| pabelanger | EmilienM: perhaps we should be sending out regular reminders to MLs to have contributors remember to validate their affiliation? | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | there is an (undocumented) API, which fungi has helped me with | 15:20 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: can you please link what you started? | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | the bigger problem isn't with lack of updates (most people don't actually change jobs, that's a thing we see ourselves as selection bias) it's that no one can spell the name of their company the same way twice | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : the who-helped command in openstack/goal-tools | 15:21 |
| EmilienM | so I read the code and for now it's only looking at Gerrit right? | 15:22 |
| EmilienM | we could think at polling storyboard/launchpad, we have people here filling very nice bugs that help so much (and to me it's a good contribution) | 15:23 |
| EmilienM | (I'm thinking at our QE engineers) | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | yes, it looks at gerrit to find anyone who creates, updates, or votes +2 on a patch | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | the questions we had were things like "are these companies that keep asking for features actually helping when we start trying to build them?" | 15:24 |
| *** openstackgerrit has joined #openstack-tc | 15:24 | |
| openstackgerrit | Alex Schultz proposed openstack/governance master: Retire tripleo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/565843 | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | and so I was not concerned with bug reports as contributions to answer that question | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | although I would normally include a bug report as a form of contribution, of course | 15:24 |
| EmilienM | indeed | 15:24 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Doug Hellmann nomination for Chair https://review.openstack.org/565488 | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | anyway, if you have questions you think we could answer using a tool like that, let me know what they are | 15:26 |
| EmilienM | the tool looks great | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | in the mean time, I'm producing some charts and graphs of contributions to our goals, help-wanted topics, and some other cross-project areas | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | I hope to have them ready to discuss at the leadership meeting in vancouver | 15:26 |
| fungi | dhellmann: yeah, data quality around employer name consistency is something the foundation web devs were going to look into. maybe some common pattern matching and automated rewriting of those entries along with periodically checking a dump of them to see any new patterns they need to add | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | fungi : we have lots of info on names that can be merged into 1 in a yaml file in the goal-tools repo now :-) | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | some folks seem to like to specify their organization down to the level of the building they work in | 15:29 |
| fungi | dhellmann: i'll point them at it, thanks! | 15:29 |
| fungi | hah | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | at least one person who showed up in several queries has their personal mission statement in that field | 15:30 |
| fungi | 6 decimal points of precision for the latitude and longitude of their desk chair | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | heh, no, that would be interesting information | 15:30 |
| zaneb | dhellmann: lol, there's always one isn't there | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | how many different ways can you spell "A Division of BigCorp"? | 15:30 |
| dhellmann | anyway, between that and gerrit giving me back partial results for some reviews it has been an interesting project to make this tool in any way robust | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | I have new respect for what the stackalytics folks were trying to do | 15:31 |
| fungi | dhellmann: only interesting if they embedded an iot gps into their chair pedestal to auto-update their position as they roll around the room ;) | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I'm ok with point-in-time data :-) | 15:31 |
| fungi | dhellmann: partial results? pagination issue? | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | fungi : some records are missing names or emails | 15:32 |
| fungi | i'm happy to dig into gerrit api results if you have examples | 15:32 |
| fungi | that may also be lack of data in the actual accounts | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | I've hit 1 or 2, the problem is they're 10K into a sequence so it takes a while to get back to them | 15:33 |
| fungi | one person recently was having trouble because they had completely removed their name from their gerrit account | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I assume it's legitimately missing data. The entire field is not present, which was more surprising (rather than just having an empty string) | 15:33 |
| fungi | oh, fun. thanks gerrit! | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | yes, well, that's what I deserve for using [] instead of .get() | 15:34 |
| fungi | heh | 15:35 |
| fungi | and do we have an etherpad for collecting ideas for the board/tc/uc(/kata/zuul?) meeting yet? | 15:36 |
| fungi | one tc-related thing which i know seems trivial but has been bugging me (and presumably others) for years that i'd like on the agenda to get the board to either agree to or at least let us know what's involved in fixing: the glaring (and potentially confusing) typo in the technical committee member policy 3.b.i https://www.openstack.org/legal/technical-committee-member-policy/ | 15:36 |
| dhellmann | I thought we did but I'm not finding a bookmark to it | 15:36 |
| dhellmann | we have an email thread: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-April/129428.html | 15:37 |
| fungi | as it's an appendix to the foundation bylaws, i've never been able to get a straight answer on whether it requires a vote of the membership, or assent of the board, or if someone can just fix it (and who has the authority to tell the people with access to fix it that they're allowed to) | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | and now we have an etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/2018-may-leadership-meeting-tc-agenda-items | 15:39 |
| fungi | i personally know the people with access to fix it, but none of them seem to want to touch it unless someone can tell them it's okay to do so | 15:39 |
| EmilienM | I think one was already created https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/UnofficialBoardNotes-May20-2018 | 15:40 |
| EmilienM | but empty | 15:40 |
| mnaser | is there a list of etherpads that is maintained somewhere? | 15:40 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : that is for notes at/during the meeting. This new one is for us to prepare things we want on the agenda | 15:41 |
| dhellmann | mnaser : not really :-( | 15:41 |
| dhellmann | I can share some that I have bookmarked | 15:42 |
| dhellmann | I'll be sending the usual "welcome to the tc" message with some links like that | 15:42 |
| dhellmann | either today or tomorrow | 15:42 |
| dhellmann | now that things are official | 15:42 |
| dhellmann | fungi : is there a version of the correction that I can link to somewhere? | 15:43 |
| fungi | yeah, the lack of pad indices in etherpad is seen upstream as a security measure since you can make unguessable pad ids and then either not share them or share the correspondnig non-reversible read-only urls for them | 15:43 |
| fungi | dhellmann: i'll stick something on that pad now | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | ty, I added the idea to the bottom of the list | 15:44 |
| fungi | thanks! | 15:48 |
| fungi | i've added the proposed correction | 15:48 |
| mnaser | fungi: what about bringing that document under the governance repo somewhere? | 15:49 |
| fungi | will be nice to fnially have it fixed, as any time we need to refer to that (in discussing electoral topics particularly) i end up having to include an aside explaining what it was supposed to say | 15:49 |
| mnaser | and then that way we can just ask someone to "mirror" what the content is in the website | 15:49 |
| fungi | mnaser: it's certainly an option to discuss, though i don't know whether there might be reasons that the foundation executive team or board of directors feel they need to maintain control over the wording in those documents | 15:50 |
| fungi | it's far from the only appendix to the foundation bylaws | 15:50 |
| dhellmann | yeah, the bylaws are a whole extra level of legal documentation so I can see them not wanting to put them in a place where just anyone might have the ability to change them | 15:51 |
| fungi | and so far they tend to seek input from legal counsel before modifying anything in those | 15:51 |
| fungi | the fact that we carry a _copy_ of the icla in our gerrit deployment rather than linking to the official published version was even a little iffy back when i first proposed that solution years ago | 15:52 |
| fungi | and made sure to get foundation executive review on the embedded copy we're using before it merged, to confirm that things like slight formatting differences weren't a problem | 15:53 |
| fungi | it's been argued that the bylaws appendices aren't _actually_ part of the bylaws, so not subject to the same rules for modification... that might mean we could move one or more of them somewhere else if we want but it's definitely a bigger discussion | 15:55 |
| fungi | and because it's in some way attached to the bylaws, nobody ever seems to want to discuss it | 15:55 |
| mnaser | i see | 16:00 |
| *** hongbin has quit IRC | 16:28 | |
| *** hongbin has joined #openstack-tc | 16:29 | |
| *** ricolin has quit IRC | 16:31 | |
| *** notmyname has quit IRC | 16:50 | |
| *** notmyname has joined #openstack-tc | 16:51 | |
| *** dtantsur is now known as dtantsur|afk | 17:02 | |
| *** jpich has quit IRC | 17:10 | |
| mnaser | so something i've been thinking about is making upgrades easier for users. one of the ways to allow for flexible upgrades as an operator is maintaining containers for each service (lxc, not docker) in order to have a different set of packages work together | 17:16 |
| mnaser | the concern is that yum install openstack-cinder will upgrade python2-oslo-db and then break everything else on the system | 17:16 |
| mnaser | i was wondering if maybe we should start at least having something regarding making libraries we use (at least the oslo ones) maybe always keep a one cycle compatibility | 17:17 |
| mnaser | that way i can have upgraded libraries and older services can use those upgraded libraries | 17:17 |
| mnaser | not sure if i worded myself well.. but this is something that simplifies the upgrade story which has obviously been a big pain | 17:18 |
| mnaser | open for fair async discussion | 17:18 |
| dhellmann | fungi : it also feels overly burdensome to have to go through the whole blyaws change process to fix an obvious typo | 17:22 |
| dhellmann | tc-members: a timely post related to our discussion of contribution rates for goals and other "commons" tasks: https://medium.com/@nayafia/an-alternate-ending-to-the-tragedy-of-the-commons-446b4e960887 | 17:23 |
| fungi | ooh, looks like a fun article indeed | 17:31 |
| *** spsurya has quit IRC | 17:42 | |
| dhellmann | I grabbed the book she references, because these days all I read are books like that | 18:06 |
| fungi | reading that article, i actually feel a lot better about the measures we've (inadvertently in some cases) hit on which seem to be working out | 19:01 |
| fungi | but definitely helps point out things which we should keep up | 19:02 |
| *** openstackgerrit has quit IRC | 19:05 | |
| dhellmann | fungi : the word from Alan is that he thinks that change will require a vote, so he would like to do that at the next board election. I'm waiting for information about what we can do to ensure the topic is placed on the ballot, and I will relay that when I have it. Would you still like the topic on the agenda for the meeting in Vancouver? | 21:13 |
| *** dtruong_ has quit IRC | 21:13 | |
| *** kumarmn_ has quit IRC | 21:21 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 21:22 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 21:26 | |
| fungi | dhellmann: if possible, mainly because counsel will (i think?) be present, and i've heard previously that it's not technically a bylaws change because it's not in the appendix so shouldn't require a vote of the membership | 21:28 |
| *** openstackgerrit has joined #openstack-tc | 21:30 | |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/constellations master: fix the host in the .gitreview file https://review.openstack.org/566169 | 21:30 |
| fungi | er, rather that it's not technically a bylaws change because it _is_ in an appendix | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | ok | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | Alan refered to "9.2.(d) of the bylaws" as being related to changing the “Technical Committee Member Policy”(Appendix 4) | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | I haven't looked at what that says | 21:31 |
| fungi | but yeah, this ambiguity is why a typo has gone 5 years since being noticed and not getting corrected | 21:31 |
| fungi | not gotten corrected | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | ok | 21:33 |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 21:39 | |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/constellations master: add basic sphinx setup https://review.openstack.org/566171 | 21:42 |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** mriedem is now known as mrjazzercise | 22:09 | |
| fungi | if we can get confirmation that it does need a vote of the membership, then i'm cool with it going onto the next board election ballot... just looking for confirmation one way or the other | 22:13 |
| fungi | and, yes, sad that a confusing but obvious typo in an appendix of the bylaws requires this extreme level of scrutiny | 22:14 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, I'm waiting for the next reply in the email thread about it to come in | 22:16 |
| fungi | odds are radcliffe needs to say one way or the other | 22:19 |
| dhellmann | that's who we're waiting for | 22:20 |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 22:24 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 22:30 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 22:46 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 22:51 | |
| *** hongbin has quit IRC | 23:06 | |
| *** kumarmn has joined #openstack-tc | 23:37 | |
| *** kumarmn has quit IRC | 23:54 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!