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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Adjust TC election target to 6 weeks before summit https://review.openstack.org/560002 | 07:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Update Barbican compliance in code progress https://review.openstack.org/561293 | 07:31 |
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| fungi | i've been on the fence about initiating any campaign period debate questions on the ml myself since i'm also an election official, though thinking back we have had election officials do so in the past | 13:05 |
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| mugsie | fungi: I wouldn't see any issue with election officials kicking it off, as long as it isn't something like "Graham, can you explain to everyone else why you would be amazing on the TC" :) | 13:12 |
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| fungi | heh | 13:15 |
| fungi | it would be a disingenuous question. i mean... i already know why you would be amazing on the tc | 13:16 |
| ttx | already polishing your alliances I see | 13:19 |
| cdent | still at pyconit ttx? | 13:21 |
| ttx | cdent: yes, runs until Sunday | 13:31 |
| cdent | cool. good stuff? | 13:31 |
| ttx | 680 attendees, organic Tuscany red wine at lunch | 13:32 |
| ttx | Good keynotes this morning (all Red Hat) | 13:32 |
| ttx | My talk (and Monty's) are tomorrow | 13:33 |
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| cmurphy | I'm suddenly thirsty | 13:35 |
| cmurphy | Tuscan wine sounds fabulous | 13:35 |
| ttx | And that's the conference lunch! | 13:35 |
| ttx | also using floppy disks as conference badge is pretty genius | 13:36 |
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| mugsie | ttx: yeah, I saw that - such a good idea | 13:56 |
| mugsie | did you find a USB floppy disk reader to see if there is anything on it yet? :P | 13:57 |
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| * fungi has one of those lying around somewhere, he thinks, but it only takes 3.5" | 14:03 | |
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| fungi | i like still have a stack of 5.25" and 8" diskettes in a drawer, but no longer have drives which can take them | 14:04 |
| fungi | er, i guess properly that would be 5.25" diskettes and 8" disks | 14:07 |
| fungi | i also have a bunch of old discarded 12" drive platters i'm cutting apart and reassembling to build a fancy-looking keyboard stand, if i ever get around to finishing that project | 14:09 |
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| mugsie | fungi: adrian commented on http://forumtopics.openstack.org/cfp/details/122 | 14:30 |
| mugsie | not sure how useful that discussion would be without him | 14:30 |
| fungi | yeah, maybe we should just continue on the ml | 14:37 |
| fungi | rather unfortunate his employer doesn't see value in sending involved developers to our primary conference, but it is what it is i guess | 14:37 |
| mugsie | It is part of the reason people want offical status I suppose | 14:38 |
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| cdent | fungi: does summit count as the primary for techs anymore? ptg is more relevant to lots of people | 14:41 |
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| fungi | cdent: summit (well, forum) is strongly recommended for technical staff who will be providing or receiving feedback to/from other parts of the community | 14:43 |
| cmurphy | we might be reading too much into his comment, he could be not attending for reasons not related to employer decisions (he did make it to the Sydney summit) | 14:44 |
| fungi | ahh, got it. his company decided who was going and it may have been based on his originally thinking he wasn't needed, and now it's too close to change that up | 14:44 |
| fungi | great point, cmurphy | 14:45 |
| cdent | fungi: _I_ know that, but I think there are plenty of people who feel otherwise. For example: https://twitter.com/jaypipes/status/986206738490720257 | 14:45 |
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| cdent | fungi: and I think it is disingenuous for us to assume that just because we say so that summit is easy to get to. (setting aside adrian's particular experience or moment in time, but speaking generally about summit as a thing) | 14:46 |
| mugsie | cdent: jay is not the only person I have heard similar thoughts from | 14:46 |
| fungi | oh, i don't find it easy to get to at all | 14:47 |
| cdent | I go because other people are there and I'm lucky enough to have an employer who will pay my way, and before that a foundation that was willing to support my attendance | 14:47 |
| fungi | even with my employer covering the costs, i'm personally not find of travelling | 14:47 |
| mugsie | cdent: ditto | 14:47 |
| fungi | er, fond of | 14:47 |
| cdent | but I really think conferences as some kind of requirement for collaboration is a bogus | 14:47 |
| * mugsie is look at flights now, and crying | 14:47 | |
| mugsie | 15 hours minimum -_- | 14:48 |
| cdent | so, basically: I think we should strive to de-emphasize these in person things | 14:48 |
| cdent | (as much as I enjoy seeing fungi's shirts and chopsticks) | 14:49 |
| fungi | thankfully my itinerary is "only" a little over 10 hours wheels up to wheels down (granted that doesn't include the hours on the road to get to the nearest airport, nor the extra hotel stay i need at the airport so i'll make my flight on time) | 14:50 |
| fungi | and that's for going to a conference on the same continent i live on | 14:50 |
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| dtroyer_zz | fungi: yeah but you live in a much sweeter location than I do where I can be wheels-down to my driveay in 27 minutes | 14:52 |
| fungi | yeah, i'll grant you it's way more pleasant here than when i lived 5 minutes from the back entrance to rdu airport | 14:53 |
| fungi | getting to yvr from here isn't particularly cheap either. originally christine was going to come along, but for less than the cost of her plane ticket we bought two very nice 11' kayaks, paddles, life vests, a cart to wheel them around with... | 14:55 |
| dtroyer_zz | hmmm… I wonder if my wife would make that trade too? She has been looking at kayaks… | 14:56 |
| fungi | they're probably a lot cheaper here, i'll grant you. we have a ton of companies who rent them out to tourists for a season, then clean them up and sell them off | 14:57 |
| fungi | same with bicycles | 14:57 |
| fungi | and a lot of other outdoor sporting equipment | 14:57 |
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| ttx | so... do you think we should keep the Adjutant session ? | 15:18 |
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| ttx | We just were in the Forum session selection committee call and I raised it as a possibility | 15:19 |
| ttx | I think it's worth it if we can discuss things with Keystone/Mistral folks, but it may be a bit one-sided | 15:19 |
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| ttx | Let me know your thoughts on that (keep it or replace it by another form of discussion) as we'll be working on a strawman schedule early next week | 15:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Emilien Macchi proposed openstack/governance master: Import ansible-role-container-registry in tripleo https://review.openstack.org/563198 | 17:32 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I would hesitate to talk too directly about adjutant without someone representing them, but it might be useful for us to have a conversation about adding projects in general. | 17:49 |
| fungi | yeah, i could see retitling it such that we're discussing the kinds of issues the adjutant proposal raises, so long as we don't steer it to the context of their application | 18:02 |
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| mugsie | Yeah, I don't think it would be fair to force someone to try and argue their case via phone dial in | 18:48 |
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| fungi | mugsie: i've done my best to come up with an alternative session description and posted it as a comment on that one | 20:48 |
| * fungi needs to step away and grab something to eat now | 20:48 | |
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| dhellmann | tc-members and candidates: sorry it took me so long to make time to start with some questions this week: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-April/129622.html | 21:27 |
| clarkb | it is end of week but I'll mention it here so if I forget it at least got some airtime. But its come up that maybe we should get TC input on potential changes to make devstack use virtualenvs by default? topic:venv_support is the current set of changes to make it happen (note we'll need more for all the branches). Part of the concern is we'll likely break all the plugins if we do this. But at the same | 21:52 |
| clarkb | time pip10 is starting to more forcefully push us this direction | 21:52 |
| clarkb | fungi: ^ maybe you can remind me when it is time to discuss that during office hours | 21:52 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : I saw a comment about that and wondered why it needed to be a TC decision. Is there a big disagreement, or are people just looking for some validation? | 21:57 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: I think its mostly get some people behind it so that when we break the world it doesn't look like we made that decision in a vacuum | 21:58 |
| clarkb | of course we could also decide that doing so would be too painful currently and until pip10 really forces the issue we just continue as is | 21:58 |
| dhellmann | ok, well, my standard response to that is at least start a mailing list thread :-) | 21:58 |
| dhellmann | but yeah, I can see this being a big enough thing that giving it some visibility is a good idea | 21:58 |
| clarkb | I did, it didn't get much traction and based on the number of people asking about why pip10 broke them over the weekend I don't think anyone read it | 21:59 |
| dhellmann | hmm, what was the title of that thread? | 21:59 |
| * clarkb goes to find it | 21:59 | |
| dhellmann | maybe "Pip 10 is on the way"? | 22:00 |
| clarkb | [openstack-dev] [infra][qa] Pip 10 is on the way (technically fungi started it) | 22:00 |
| dhellmann | ok, yeah | 22:00 |
| dhellmann | I think we need to start training people to read the mailing list by responding to questions about things that have been posted to the list by giving a URL to the email that covered the topic | 22:01 |
| dhellmann | "this is being discussed over here <link>" | 22:01 |
| dhellmann | just nudge them into reading and using the list for discussions | 22:01 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : it sounds from your email on 5 apr that using a single virtualenv with system site-packages enabled does work, is that right? | 22:03 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: it does (mostly) | 22:04 |
| dhellmann | we might also need to think about some lower volume method of making announcements that affect the whole community | 22:04 |
| dhellmann | something that maybe isn't just email, like a blog | 22:05 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: basically the base jobs all pass once I get grenade and ironic updated to accomodate it | 22:05 |
| dhellmann | the posts could just link to the relevant email threads maybe? | 22:05 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : cool, so between that and what I remember from the pypa folks saying not to mix packages and not to use pip with sudo, it sounds like that's the right approach | 22:05 |
| dhellmann | (using 1 virtualenv) | 22:05 |
| clarkb | the ironic issue is an example of the sort of class of problem where I expect things will break. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/559811/ | 22:06 |
| dhellmann | hmm, yeah | 22:06 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: ya it is definitely the direction that pypa seems to want to push people | 22:06 |
| dhellmann | it's understandable -- there's no reason they should carry the load of making pip work with all of the various packaging systems out there | 22:07 |
| dhellmann | they view it as a developer tool | 22:07 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : I am starting to add some notes to the bottom of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tc-office-hour-conversation-starters for the next office hours if you want to add some links | 22:08 |
| clarkb | I think its getting confused by me trying to type, itneresting | 22:09 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : thanks, that should give us nice detail to share with the other tc-members for the next office hours | 22:16 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: my major concern here is that upstream is likely only going to keep pushing this forward and the distros seem disinterested in changing any time soon. | 22:16 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: so while we may be able to limp along under pip10 who knows what pip11 will bring | 22:16 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I definitely think we need to do something | 22:16 |
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| * dhellmann hears wine glasses in the next room and signs off for the weekend | 22:17 | |
| clarkb | enjoy! | 22:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Samuel Cassiba proposed openstack/governance master: Add openstack-dns (Designate) to Chef OpenStack https://review.openstack.org/563330 | 22:23 |
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