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| openstackgerrit | Kendall Nelson proposed openstack/governance master: Add Storyboard Migration to Rocky https://review.openstack.org/513875 | 00:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Hongbin Lu proposed openstack/governance master: Zun completion of split tempest plugin goal https://review.openstack.org/516507 | 03:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | Niraj Singh proposed openstack/governance master: Add project repository https://review.openstack.org/516554 | 08:30 |
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| ttx | ohai | 09:02 |
| ttx | tc-members office hour time | 09:02 |
| ttx | almost missed it with DST end | 09:02 |
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| ttx | which makes me think -- we might want to push them back +1h once the US shifts off DST, to realign with biologic times | 09:03 |
| gcb_ | o/ | 09:04 |
| ttx | otherwise some will start a bit early for some | 09:04 |
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| ttx | tc-members, sorry about the confusion but apparently we are back to a 1pm start for the joint leadership meeting | 09:05 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/5Nov2017BoardMeeting | 09:12 |
| gcb_ | ttx: is it TC office hour now? | 09:22 |
| ttx | gcb_: yes | 09:23 |
| ttx | but not many people around apparently | 09:23 |
| ttx | gcb_: will you be in Sydney ? | 09:24 |
| gcb_ | yes, we have a feedback discussion about the time of PTG can we have it in same city of OpenStack Summit but in different time slots | 09:26 |
| gcb_ | It's separated event but close with the Summit. | 09:26 |
| gcb_ | It's easy for companies send their engineers there and save travel costs | 09:28 |
| gcb_ | From foundation side , It doesn't reduce the sponsor fees from company | 09:28 |
| ttx | we've been having that discussion in the past, it was rejected because (1) that would make too much travel in one go for people with family (two weeks away), and the summit does not happen necessarily where most developers are | 09:29 |
| ttx | If you look at Sydney, sending all developers there is a bit weird when we don't have that many developers in that corner of the world | 09:30 |
| gcb_ | ttx: developers can just attend the PTG if they don't want to attend the Summit | 09:30 |
| ttx | sure, but it's still easier globally to send them to Denver or Dublin than to Sydney | 09:30 |
| ttx | since in Denver/Dublin at least some of them are local | 09:31 |
| ttx | but yes, I'm happy to have that discussion again | 09:31 |
| ttx | might be worth revisiting | 09:31 |
| ttx | Summits also happen in more expensive cities | 09:32 |
| ttx | so overall what you gain in flight tickets you end up losing in hotel costs | 09:32 |
| gcb_ | one week travel is not friendly for some developers like jet lag , four time visa application... just my feels :-) | 09:32 |
| ttx | gcb_: that's fair, thanks for sharing. It's definitely a trade-off | 09:33 |
| gcb_ | yeah, we can discuss this in Sydney, I collected some suggest from Chinese developers/companies :-) | 09:33 |
| ttx | if summit was 2-3 days and PTG 3-4 days we could probably make it work | 09:33 |
| ttx | but currently it's 3-4 + 4-5 so it's a long week | 09:34 |
| gcb_ | some projects need 5 days like Nova, other projects may not need 5 days | 09:34 |
| gcb_ | ttx: agree | 09:34 |
| ttx | also the timing cyclewise is suboptimal for one or the other. Summits are best places a couple of months away from last release, while PTG needs to happen at the start of cycle for optimal results | 09:34 |
| ttx | placed* | 09:35 |
| ttx | Back when we coupled the events we basically asked the summit to take the hit -- with lots of presentations about release n-1 | 09:36 |
| ttx | and vendors with outdated products | 09:36 |
| ttx | the split allowed to place each at the optimal point in time | 09:36 |
| gcb_ | Not sure how many company used the latest N or N-1 release for their product | 09:37 |
| ttx | with the Sydney summit in November, at least some distros and vendors will have Pike stuff to show | 09:38 |
| ttx | If the Summit happened closer to release and around PTG time, just no way :) | 09:38 |
| ttx | so we ended up collecting feedback from release N-1 at Summit, which was 6 months old | 09:39 |
| ttx | gcb_: see https://ttx.re/how-splitting-enhances-dev-process.html for original rationale to the split | 09:39 |
| ttx | Also https://ttx.re/splitting-out-design-summit.html | 09:40 |
| gcb_ | ttx: I know the benefit of splitting out two events. just wondering if we have a survey about PTG and Summit event. | 09:40 |
| gcb_ | :-) | 09:40 |
| * ttx grabs coffee | 09:41 | |
| * gcb_ will leave for dinner | 09:43 | |
| gcb_ | it's not easy to make decisions liked by everyone, would like to have more discussion in Sydney | 09:45 |
| ttx | gcb_: yes we should! Also the environment changed, so the trade-off might not be as valid, so it's good to revisit | 09:49 |
| * ttx updates the Tracker | 09:49 | |
| gcb_ | ++ | 09:53 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Select Thierry Carrez as chair https://review.openstack.org/514553 | 09:57 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Technical_Committee_Tracker updated | 09:58 |
| * johnthetubaguy goes to fix his calendar, oops | 10:02 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | although +1 the moving forward an hour | 10:06 |
| cdent | calendar fail | 10:07 |
| * cdent loses his timezone compute merit badge | 10:07 | |
| cmurphy | my calendar was right but it's a public holdiay in germany >.> | 10:11 |
| ttx | heh | 10:15 |
| ttx | see mentions above, joint leadership meeting is back at 1pm | 10:15 |
| ttx | so we need to grab food before | 10:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Marking Sahara policy in code goal as done https://review.openstack.org/514422 | 10:16 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add the supports-rolling-upgrade tag to Ironic https://review.openstack.org/514448 | 10:16 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add Glance planning artifact for community goal https://review.openstack.org/514449 | 10:16 |
| cdent | ttx most of the morning session remains open to the public, yeah? | 10:20 |
| ttx | yes, there is an executive segment that should be closed | 10:42 |
| ttx | but the rest is open | 10:42 |
| ttx | afaik | 10:42 |
| cdent | “a bit wordy for the targeted audience” is often true. I have very mixed feelings on that. | 10:55 |
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| fungi | i'm maybe -0.5 on shuffling all the office hours around twice a year for no good reason. if the ones we've chosen are inconvenient when parts of the world decide to shift their clocks by an hour then we should strive to find slots that work year-round rather than constantly rescheduling and confusing the rest of the community | 11:59 |
| fungi | i may be biased though since i opt out of my country's obsession with redefining its timezones semiannually | 12:00 |
| fungi | and am rather glad that as a community we choose to base our calendars off a single world timezone which itself doesn't observe hour shifts back and forth on a whim | 12:02 |
| cmurphy | ++ everyone shifts around at different times and some places don't shift at all, better just to define it once and for all | 12:02 |
| cdent | I agree with fungi and cmurphy, the only reason I missed it this morning is because my calendar entry was broken. Jumping around all over the place no good | 12:08 |
| cdent | utc 4 evah | 12:08 |
| fungi | i need to get back to my plan to devise an actual "universal" planck-scale timekeeping system which accounts for relativistic effects between frames of reference | 12:13 |
| cdent | I would guess that if future you has achieved that then he doesn’t like present day you, otherwise you’d already know. | 12:19 |
| fungi | i wouldn't be surprised. future me is a bit of a jerk | 12:20 |
| ttx | I'm fine with current times, but fear we might be missing west coast people at 1500utc when DST ends | 12:53 |
| ttx | while this is theory was the all-US+Europe slot | 12:53 |
| ttx | See etherpad for our office hour @ https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SYD-tc-office-hour | 13:08 |
| ttx | (the one in Sydney) | 13:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Ruby Loo proposed openstack/governance master: Add supports-accessible-upgrade tag to ironic* https://review.openstack.org/516671 | 13:21 |
| smcginnis | +1 for not adjusting twice a year. | 13:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Luka Peschke proposed openstack/governance master: Add CloudKitty Tempest plugin https://review.openstack.org/516684 | 13:44 |
| dhellmann | ttx: what do you have in mind for the top-5 review item on the meeting agenda? | 13:51 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: go through them + educate (again) about activity not happening in a vacuum | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | makes sense | 14:32 |
| ttx | I have limited expectations but at least after it they can't pretend they ignore where to help | 14:32 |
| ttx | basically places the ball in their court | 14:33 |
| ttx | their side of the court | 14:33 |
| ttx | which may be useful when we reach "OpenStack Strategy and vision" agenda point | 14:34 |
| ttx | if it is what I think it is | 14:34 |
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| dhellmann | hmm, the stable team isn't on that top 5 list | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | I wonder if adding that to the list instead of stewards would be better for us in the short term | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | given the recurring theme of having an LTS release | 14:54 |
| smcginnis | It is a hot topic lately. | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | tonyb : what do you think? ^^ | 14:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: update the documentation team PTL in the top-5 list https://review.openstack.org/516712 | 15:13 |
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| dhellmann | fungi : can you give a couple of highlights for the status of the infra team with respect to the tc top-5 list? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/syd-leadership-top-5-update | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | maybe work with clarkb? | 15:17 |
| dhellmann | mugsie. smcginnis : same question, can you give us a quick update on the designate top 5 item? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/syd-leadership-top-5-update | 15:18 |
| dhellmann | rosmaita, flaper87 : same question for glance; can you let us know how things are going? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/syd-leadership-top-5-update | 15:19 |
| mugsie | sure, in a nutshell - 0 movement from it, but will give some more detail in the etherpad | 15:19 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: roger :D | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : thanks | 15:19 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : thanks | 15:19 |
| fungi | dhellmann: sure, i'm not confident we have much to highlight other than reiterate things in the top-5 entry | 15:19 |
| fungi | we'll be highlighting it in the project update and in the onboarding session | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | this is for the board/tc meeting, so anything you'd want to say there would be good | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | including "we still need help" | 15:20 |
| fungi | ahh, yep. that one's already on there | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | I think we want a couple of bullet points on each | 15:21 |
| fungi | but i'll see what clarkb wants to add | 15:21 |
| dhellmann | cool, thanks | 15:21 |
| rosmaita | dhellmann: will put something on the etherpad | 15:28 |
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| zaneb | cdent: this is why I organise all my meetings on Reykjavik time :) | 16:01 |
| fungi | those icelanders know how to have a good time | 16:07 |
| fungi | (zone) | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | fungi: That was so bad it was funny. | 16:08 |
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| fungi | don't forget to tip your waiters | 16:09 |
| cdent | zaneb: so yeah, I had been but when I switched jobs my calendar went into the dark mysterious land of exchange | 16:19 |
| cdent | and just now when I tried to update to use the Reykjavik things got all kinds of messed up and flipped all the tables in the house and burnt down the world | 16:20 |
| smcginnis | cdent: If you're using outlook, you can actually set the meeting timezone it UTC. | 16:20 |
| zaneb | lol | 16:21 |
| cdent | i’m using the web office 365 outlook and it hates me and I hate it and we have not yet come to any type of detente that allows real communication | 16:21 |
| smcginnis | :) | 16:22 |
| zaneb | cdent: wait, you switched jobs? | 16:22 |
| cdent | zaneb: yeah, from mirantis to vmware back june/july ish | 16:22 |
| ttx | dhellmann: one issue is that "stable branch maintenance team members" is not really the job description | 17:01 |
| ttx | dhellmann: what we actually need to support LTS is more infra/qa people watching the branch infrastructure | 17:01 |
| ttx | which is a large part of the issue -- those are just not easy to find | 17:02 |
| ttx | so in my head the "infra sysadmins" item was covering a bit of the LTS needs | 17:03 |
| ttx | So the people we are looking for would live at the intersection of the infra team, the QA team and the stable branch maint team. It's hard to describe, beyond "more people like sdague / mtreinish / fungi / ..." | 17:16 |
| mugsie | as well as some people to work on the actual projects as well - projects that are not in devstack / tempest itself tend to have gates that bit rot | 17:18 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: fair enough | 17:38 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : yes, good point | 17:38 |
| dhellmann | we also need help with stable release reviews | 17:39 |
| mugsie | yeah. it is too easy for people to just +2 without understanding the why of our policy | 17:39 |
| mugsie | or just ignore them | 17:40 |
| * mugsie included | 17:40 | |
| fungi | i'm starting to think stable review and security review groups might ought to get combined too, since the reviews of patches on embargoed vulnerability reports almost always come down to "is this suitable for backport per stable branch policy" (as well as needing stable branch reviewers on hand to quickly approve those backports at the time of publication) | 18:12 |
| fungi | or at a minimum, it would be good for teams to ensure a sufficient mix of security-focused core reviewers and stable branch reviewers in their security review groups | 18:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Ruby Loo proposed openstack/governance master: Add supports-accessible-upgrade tag to ironic* https://review.openstack.org/516671 | 18:25 |
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| TheJulia | fungi: Seems reasonable to me | 21:55 |
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| harlowja | so whatever happened to the idea that kolla would be the new devstack? | 23:04 |
| harlowja | did that sorta fade away | 23:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dai Dang Van proposed openstack/governance master: Add policy artifacts for senlin https://review.openstack.org/514908 | 23:32 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: Adding stable to the list is possibly an idea best discussed in person. after we see what the 2 stable'ish sessions at the summit bring. | 23:33 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: If there really is interest in somethign like and LTS once we knwo what that looks like we can decide where ti encourage additional help. | 23:33 |
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| fungi | including beefing up the groups doing security patching/backporting | 23:40 |
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