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| cdent | ttx: just checking: any progress on the dev satisfaction survey data? | 11:18 |
|---|---|---|
| ttx | cdent: yes, I hope that erin will send me the data today | 11:31 |
| cdent | great, thanks | 11:32 |
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| smcginnis | ttx: Did the next PTG space get locked down? | 14:55 |
| fungi | tc-members: now commence to be office hour'ing! | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | For some reason that made me think of "Wonder twin powers - activate!" | 15:00 |
| ttx | hello hello | 15:00 |
| fungi | form of a governing body! | 15:00 |
| * dtroyer has vanilla coke in hand, all set | 15:01 | |
| ttx | So topic for today -- let's encourage people to run | 15:01 |
| fungi | and not away | 15:01 |
| smcginnis | I've pinged one person I would like to see run. | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | Is it concerning to anyone else that there is only one name so far? | 15:02 |
| ttx | A lot of people wait until the last minute to play | 15:03 |
| fungi | almost everyone (me included) waits until the last possible moment i guess | 15:03 |
| dtroyer | yes, but IIRC there is usually a bit more toward the end of the period | 15:03 |
| fungi | i'll use the excuse that this has been a busy week | 15:03 |
| ttx | classic game theory -- wait until you have most parameters | 15:03 |
| smcginnis | fungi: That's a good excuse for you. :) | 15:03 |
| ttx | I've been reaching out to several people that I think would make great candidates | 15:04 |
| ttx | they are all "considering it" | 15:04 |
| ttx | but most also said that they haven't thought about it | 15:04 |
| ttx | so I think reaching out to people and telling them they would be great in the role really helps | 15:04 |
| fungi | i'm hoping we get a new candidate out of the discussion we had during the 01:00z office hour on wednesday | 15:04 |
| * cdent wants a vanilla coke now | 15:05 | |
| * fungi wonders if they have chocolate coke | 15:05 | |
| ttx | A lot of people assume it's only for superhumans and have a bit of an imposter complex -- reaching out and encouraging them can go a long way | 15:05 |
| cdent | as discussed earlier in the week, I think there are plenty of people who either don’t care or don’t see the point | 15:05 |
| ttx | especially if we want members representative of our diversity | 15:05 |
| cdent | so that narrows the playing field a fair bit | 15:05 |
| ttx | (geographic or gender) | 15:05 |
| cdent | I know of someone who is going to run who helps on the diversity side | 15:06 |
| cdent | so that, at least, is good | 15:06 |
| ttx | I don't really fear we'll lack candidates -- if we don't have enough I'm pretty sure a number of people will declare at the last minute if they are pretty sure to get in | 15:07 |
| mugsie | Did the deadline get pushed back? I thought I saw an email | 15:07 |
| ttx | but still we should reach out | 15:07 |
| dtroyer | 2 days IIRC | 15:07 |
| * ttx checks new deadline | 15:07 | |
| ttx | https://governance.openstack.org/election/ | 15:07 |
| ttx | until Tuesday night | 15:08 |
| ttx | so 4 more business days | 15:08 |
| cdent | people declaring at the last minute because they sure they will get in has to be the antipattern to end all antipatterns! | 15:08 |
| cdent | we don’t want that | 15:08 |
| ttx | indeed not | 15:08 |
| fungi | according to tonyb the updated nomination deadline is october 8, which would be sunday | 15:09 |
| ttx | that's why we need to encourage peolpe to dclare early | 15:09 |
| dtroyer | I think part of it may be also seeing who else is running, and deciding if they still have a chance | 15:09 |
| mugsie | dtroyer: ++ | 15:09 |
| smcginnis | I know there is some of that attitude. | 15:09 |
| dtroyer | we are still largely a re-elect community, so if the remaining incumbents run, there is likely to only be 2 new members | 15:10 |
| ttx | fungi: hmm he probably got it wrong, Oct 8 was the initial deadline | 15:10 |
| fungi | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-October/123162.html | 15:10 |
| fungi | also he went back to saying we're electing 6 members | 15:10 |
| ttx | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/election/commit/?id=b09b897dccd087eecb96a23c5d3f38d21e5f57ed | 15:10 |
| persia | 2017-10-10T23:45 is the new nomination deadline | 15:11 |
| cmurphy | hi o/ so I can provide some feedback here - the idea of being on the TC is not so scary by itself, but my perception is that it's not just about qualifications and encouragement but also a desire to incite change. if I'm moreorless satisfied with the state of the community then I don't have a convincing platform to run on :) | 15:11 |
| smcginnis | https://governance.openstack.org/election/ has the 10th. | 15:11 |
| fungi | cmurphy: sounds like a platform to me! | 15:11 |
| persia | cmurphy: The TC also needs conservatives, or there will be lots of unexpected change | 15:11 |
| ttx | persia: could you fix http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-October/123162.html with an answer | 15:11 |
| ttx | I think Tony got it wrong (message is corrrect, dates are the old dates) | 15:12 |
| cdent | cmurphy for TC | 15:12 |
| * persia increases the priority of installing an MUA, and tries to comply | 15:12 | |
| fungi | persia: e-mail is so 1990s | 15:12 |
| ttx | persia: i can do it but that would be weird, not being an official and all | 15:12 |
| dtroyer | cmurphy: is that due to a perception that the TC _should_ be the body of radical change? | 15:12 |
| persia | ttx: Yes, which is why I'm doing it :) | 15:13 |
| ttx | dtroyer: nom more a question of motivation ? | 15:13 |
| ttx | no,* | 15:13 |
| dtroyer | for an individual, maybe, but as a group? | 15:13 |
| cmurphy | dtroyer: it's mostly from the candidacy emails - lots of eloquent announcements of all the things that need to change | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | I did feel like there was some pressure when running, especially with the questions asked of candidates on the ML, that running meant you had some overall agenda for change. | 15:13 |
| persia | cmurphy: Hence the need for balance with eloquent announcements of all the things that need to stay the same :) | 15:14 |
| dtroyer | we've heard in prior elections a lot of talk about how much needs to change, I don't have a sense of how large that group is, just a loud minority? | 15:14 |
| ttx | So I think you should have an agenda detailing what you intend to help with | 15:14 |
| ttx | Not necessarily what you would change per se | 15:14 |
| smcginnis | cmurphy: Just talk about how bad an idea you think the big tent was. ;) | 15:14 |
| ttx | We have a vision -- you can help with it without necessarily changing it | 15:14 |
| cmurphy | smcginnis: :P | 15:14 |
| ttx | lots of things to do and we can't all do it all | 15:15 |
| ttx | Like Doug's plaform is not about a change in policy, more of a statement of what he intends to help with | 15:15 |
| ttx | (in the current goals we already have) | 15:15 |
| fungi | smcginnis: it does at times feel a bit like i'm running on a platform to abolish gruel from school lunches and make this year's sock hop the best one ever | 15:15 |
| dtroyer | ttx: I think that is a good example of what I think we want to portray | 15:15 |
| smcginnis | fungi: That nomination would at least get some attention. :) | 15:16 |
| ttx | I think we have a reasonably good diagnostic of the things we need to work on -- we just need time to work on it | 15:16 |
| cdent | I would guess, cmurphy, that there are a small number of people who pay attention to the emails and the rest of it is name recognition | 15:17 |
| ttx | Like "be more inclusive of developers in China" -- we know the problem and agree we should fix it -- we just need to brainstorm solutions | 15:17 |
| cmurphy | cdent: I think that's true | 15:17 |
| fungi | i feel much more accountable to the constituents who ask pointed questions at least, and i like being challenged to think about hard topics | 15:18 |
| mugsie | cdent: I think name recognition is an awful lot of it | 15:18 |
| ttx | It's obviously easier to run on a vocal platform claiming you will fix all the things. Some recent votes in important countries reflect that | 15:19 |
| ttx | The reality is -- just pushing one significant thing at the TC level (in addition to your usual work) would alerady be good for a 6 month period | 15:19 |
| dtroyer | I think cdent and mugsie are right more than I'd like to admit, but that also shows the path to reaching that position, what ttx said as I was typing this :) | 15:20 |
| ttx | Like if every one of the 13 members would push something significant we'd be in a good spot. So no need to claim you will solve all the issue in the world in 1 year | 15:20 |
| ttx | Governance takes time, especially to pass non-trivial changes | 15:21 |
| fungi | yeah, that's actually most of the platform i've been noodling on over the past week+... "here's the main thing i plan to work on (whether or not i'm elected)" | 15:21 |
| sdague | cmurphy: I think that's an interesting insight actually (feeling that only wanting to run if to change things). I think the role of maintaining is probably not highlighted enough. | 15:21 |
| ttx | It's really all about adapting what we have to changing circumstances, more than changing things | 15:22 |
| fungi | sdague: we'd need to come up with a more exciting way of describing those aspects ;) | 15:22 |
| ttx | Like, what do we need to change to be more palatable to part-time contributors | 15:22 |
| smcginnis | I think there's more of a general shift to more maintaining instead of major changes in general. | 15:22 |
| ttx | (plug: join my forum session in Sydney if interested in discussing that !) | 15:23 |
| fungi | i'll be there with bells on | 15:23 |
| fungi | (if i can find any bells, otherwise i'll just be there) | 15:23 |
| * smcginnis makes note to bring bells for fungi | 15:24 | |
| cdent | fungi you should always carry bells, but damped | 15:24 |
| ttx | hmm that calls for some gimpbombing | 15:24 |
| ttx | fungi will bells on | 15:25 |
| ttx | withg* | 15:25 |
| ttx | with* sigh | 15:25 |
| * ttx glances quickly to the tracker | 15:26 | |
| ttx | Masakari still missing a couple of votes to pass, no objection so far | 15:26 |
| ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/500118/ | 15:27 |
| ttx | Adjustments to Infra contributors top-5 entry still missing one vote | 15:27 |
| ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/507637/ | 15:27 |
| ttx | The other ones look slightly further away | 15:27 |
| ttx | Like the discussion on upgrade tags should wait for the ML thread to develop | 15:28 |
| ttx | cdent: I think that beyond the perception that the TC doesn't achieve that much, there are less people overall invoved with OpenStack who care about open source project governance | 15:29 |
| ttx | It's a bit of a special interest | 15:29 |
| ttx | Like collecting stamps | 15:29 |
| cdent | yes, sure | 15:29 |
| mugsie | ttx: do you think that is a side effect of so many people being paid to work on OpenStack full time? | 15:29 |
| ttx | I like it, but I understand it's not everyone's thing | 15:30 |
| ttx | mugsie: no. | 15:30 |
| mugsie | Or paidnl to do any work on OpenStack, Vs people who do it in free time | 15:30 |
| mugsie | Paid* | 15:30 |
| ttx | mugsie: it's just that more people get involved in open source as part of their job rather than because that's their choice. Being paid to do it as little relevance | 15:31 |
| ttx | has* | 15:31 |
| ttx | Like, as open source conquers the world, theer will be more people working on it that are not interested in the social aspects of it | 15:32 |
| ttx | Just see that GitHub is where most development happens those days | 15:32 |
| ttx | There is a contradiction there, but most people don't see it anymore | 15:32 |
| ttx | Questions of license or governance are seen as extra weight to carry, not as the basis for the work | 15:33 |
| persia | There are lots of "open source jobs" that involve just writing code, and lots that involve only governance (and some that do both). People tend to strive to be paid to do the thing they like to do. | 15:33 |
| mugsie | yeah, I meant "being paid" more as "work told me to come contribute code" | 15:33 |
| ttx | mugsie: then yes. More people end up working on open source because it's everywhere now | 15:33 |
| fungi | even in the early days, there were more people who were interested in building/fixing things than in the licensing/governance/community/collaboration aspects | 15:34 |
| ttx | fungi: sure, but the proprotion was healthier | 15:34 |
| fungi | (early days of free software at large, i mean) | 15:34 |
| fungi | but yes, it is skewing further | 15:34 |
| fungi | not just for openstack, though we might be a bit ahead of the curve | 15:34 |
| ttx | So it's only natural that people interested in governance is declining, especially once they understand you don't derive that much power from the position | 15:35 |
| persia | Note that those of us who believe everyone runs open source may be living in a bubble: there are others who claim use of open source is decreasing (e.g. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4064079/ATC-Response-1.pdf ) | 15:35 |
| fungi | though one modern shift has been that people with specific interests in community governance are finding working in free software a rewarding experience, rather than the way it used to happen where governance was thrust upon people who maybe had little interest in it but saw it needed to get handled by somebody | 15:36 |
| sdague | persia: that was oracle trying to win a bit though, right? | 15:36 |
| * ttx opens Oracle propaganda | 15:37 | |
| persia | sdague: Rather, not to be excluded from future bids, but kinda, yeah | 15:37 |
| * dtroyer is glad to not have landed there a few years ago | 15:37 | |
| fungi | certainly, proprietary software vendors are going to want to paint a rosy picture of their landscape, as are people writing free software | 15:38 |
| sdague | in my experience, open governance is a hotter issue when it comes to companies making large investments in a community that their competitors are also in. Because there needs to be a safety net for that investment. | 15:38 |
| fungi | so not at all surprising | 15:38 |
| sdague | And, it's directly in reaction to things that happened before, like Xen's project struction | 15:38 |
| sdague | structure | 15:38 |
| ttx | I can see how our successes in keeping politics out of the governance of the project (and making it pretty consensual and neutral) is discouraging some from applying | 15:39 |
| persia | sdague: Some of my clients make the counterargument: they are not willing to rely on open source software if they believe it is investment funded vs. neutrally governed. | 15:39 |
| persia | ttx: Hrm? How is governance not almost entirely politics? | 15:39 |
| ttx | persia: bad terminology. I mean corporate interest tactical games | 15:40 |
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| fungi | yeah, so "investment funded" to use persia's terminology | 15:40 |
| ttx | We managed to keep company hats at the door pretty successfully | 15:40 |
| ttx | even if some others like to paint us as corporate-driven (confusing the TC with the BoD) | 15:41 |
| persia | ttx: There's lots of corporate interest tactical games in openstack, but yes, a good job has been done in providing a space for that which does not impact the ability for others to develop code whilst ignoring the games. This is a compliment to the goernance structure. | 15:41 |
| ttx | It's also not happening at the TC level, so getting a member elected to the TC is not seen as a part of the tactical game | 15:42 |
| persia | Sadly, that isn't universally true, although most of the individuals who could be elected would not run when prodded for those reasons. | 15:43 |
| cdent | It might also be a comment on the lack of teeth that the TC has. We can’t, as a group, engage in much gerrymandering and otherwise, because there is little that we actually control | 15:43 |
| * persia has had an unfortunately large number of conversations involving dicussions of how it isn't appropriate to buy the TC, either by offering all current members large salaries or by stuffing ballots to put in a new panel | 15:43 | |
| cdent | the main power is saying yes or no to inclusion | 15:43 |
| cdent | which has little power over incumbent projects | 15:43 |
| ttx | I'' draft something with dhellmann on adding "champions" or cross-project leaders or workgroup leads as a top-5 thing | 15:44 |
| ttx | we need more of those and they can be a hard sell within sponsor organizations | 15:44 |
| persia | cdent: The TC controls the means by which projects self-govern. The requirements for PTLs and delegates, etc. This, if wielded crudely, could translate to much apparent power. The current subtle influence seems to be generating lots of code that everyone can use. | 15:45 |
| ttx | ++ | 15:45 |
| fungi | cdent: i would argue our main power is the one we use the least (and for good reason): the ability to remove projects | 15:45 |
| dtroyer | I think we have a bit more power (beyond removal) than most realize, but historically that has not been needed. | 15:45 |
| cdent | fungi: if the most powerful tool in the chest is too dangerous to use, is it even a tool? | 15:46 |
| fungi | cdent: something along the lines of deterrent defense | 15:46 |
| dtroyer | cdent: maybe it hasn't been needed because deterrence is effective? | 15:46 |
| ttx | cdent: ok, I have your data, let me upload it somewhere | 15:46 |
| * ttx quickly checks for the absence of personal identifiers | 15:47 | |
| * dims reads scroll back | 15:47 | |
| cdent | ttx++ | 15:47 |
| ttx | cdent https://www.dropbox.com/s/xf1bv2d9ay6246n/PTG%20Denver%20Survey%20Responses.xlsx?dl=0 | 15:48 |
| ttx | It's a XLSX from surveymonkey with the two questions you asked | 15:48 |
| smcginnis | Stop choosing stupid sessions. :D | 15:49 |
| ttx | Some people answered the question in context of the PTG and responded "less train" | 15:49 |
| * dims spots something that looks like a line from mriedem :) | 15:50 | |
| fungi | we did have an unanticipated railroad theme to the denver ptg, akin to our floatplane theme for the first vancouver summit | 15:50 |
| fungi | though perhaps a bit more irritating | 15:50 |
| ttx | dims: "Fire the Nova core team" ? | 15:50 |
| dims | LOL. "I can only talk about Nova here..." | 15:51 |
| ttx | The same person who said "Fire the Nova core team" said "Bring back the Design Summit" so you all know it can't be me | 15:51 |
| fungi | technically the tc can't fire a core reviewer team, but we _can_ install a replacement ptl who agrees to do that | 15:51 |
| fungi | s/fire/dissolve and replace/ | 15:52 |
| smcginnis | fungi: mriedeman might be OK with that, depending when you ask. :) | 15:52 |
| persia | fungi: Alternately, drop the project and add a new one to provide that function, with a new team. | 15:52 |
| dims | smcginnis : indeed | 15:52 |
| fungi | persia: yep | 15:52 |
| fungi | i think we've all been sucked into reading survey responses | 15:57 |
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| * johnthetubaguy nods | 15:57 | |
| EmilienM | ttx: I'm late (I was in meetings) | 15:59 |
| EmilienM | ttx: but I'm still considering it | 15:59 |
| EmilienM | I'm also waiting a little bit to see who is stepping up | 16:00 |
| EmilienM | I like to think there would be new voices but if that's not the case I would send my candidacy right away (already prepared) | 16:00 |
| sdague | EmilienM: I think that for folks paying attention, they all assume that incumbents are running if they don't say they aren't | 16:01 |
| ttx | stillyeah | 16:01 |
| ttx | I mean yes | 16:01 |
| ttx | Other random data from the survey: | 16:02 |
| EmilienM | sdague: good point | 16:02 |
| ttx | Please rate how essential the PTG event is to the following: | 16:02 |
| ttx | Your personal productivity for the rest of the cycle: 3.94/5 | 16:02 |
| ttx | The success of the OpenStack open source project: 4.28/5 | 16:02 |
| ttx | The success of your organization: 3.68/5 | 16:02 |
| pabelanger | cmurphy: I completely agree, running on change vs nothing to change | 16:03 |
| ttx | If the March 2018 PTG is located in Europe, will you be able to attend? | 16:03 |
| ttx | Yes 52% | 16:03 |
| ttx | Maybe 37% | 16:03 |
| ttx | No 6% | 16:03 |
| ttx | All that is pretty good | 16:04 |
| ttx | considering we polled attendees at the US event | 16:04 |
| smcginnis | And if it's where it's been mentioned, it's fairly low cost. Or could be worse. | 16:05 |
| persia | Oslo? | 16:05 |
| smcginnis | persia: That would be fitting. | 16:05 |
| * fungi gets his snowshoes ready | 16:05 | |
| ttx | Oslo is pretty expensive | 16:06 |
| ttx | To give you an idea the car model that is sold the most there is the Tesla S | 16:06 |
| persia | Oslo is inappropriate for PTG. Very expensive. Tricky travel. Extremely high cost of alcohol. | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | But the name! | 16:06 |
| persia | I apologise if my humour failed to come over: it was in response to "could be worse." | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | yep | 16:07 |
| ttx | persia: oooooh | 16:07 |
| ttx | :) | 16:07 |
| EmilienM | sdague, ttx: to be fully transparent, the only reasons why I still wonder if I should run (and I've been thinking about it for weeks) is 1) when I see other TC members, I haven't been able to commit as much as they do, probably because I can't spend the same time as they probably do and 2) because I believe in rotations | 16:08 |
| EmilienM | sdague, ttx: I really enjoyed it and if I'm candidate again, I can only commit on what I'm already doing, governance reviews and community building (how I can) | 16:09 |
| ttx | EmilienM: that's fair. I wouldn't obsess too much on how much is achieved. However I would encourage you to set at least one thing you'd work on during your mandate | 16:10 |
| ttx | even if that's just participating in brainstorming solution around trust | 16:10 |
| EmilienM | right | 16:11 |
| ttx | On trusting and assuming good faith, been reading a thought-provoking piece I wanted to point Emilien and flaper87 to | 16:11 |
| persia | EmilienM: Even if you just run on a platform of trying to figure out how to cause more rotation in TC membership, that would be valuable | 16:11 |
| ttx | https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/amp/ | 16:12 |
| ttx | I'm still reading it, but i think it has fair counterpoints. they echo what anteaya was saying at some point | 16:12 |
| ttx | flaper87, EmilienM: https://thebias.com/2017/09/26/how-good-intent-undermines-diversity-and-inclusion/amp/ | 16:13 |
| ttx | (now with proper highlighting) | 16:13 |
| EmilienM | it's good feedback, thanks | 16:13 |
| fungi | EmilienM: if it helps at all, i feel like i've completely failed to keep up with governance reviewing responsibilities in a timely manner and providing insightful comments on more than a scant handful. but i assume it's probably just my personal perception and a sign i'm being hard on myself unnecessarily | 16:13 |
| EmilienM | I've heard a fungi can be busy as well :D | 16:14 |
| ttx | flaper87, EmilienM: I'm not saying I agree, and am still wrapping my head around it, but it's a useful read | 16:14 |
| fungi | EmilienM: well, i have hopes that no longer being a ptl means i can devote more time to tc level governance (whether or not i'm reelected to a tc seat) | 16:15 |
| sdague | maybe open, and hot buttoned question, did that feel more true after the meeting went away? | 16:17 |
| cdent | sdague: which "that"? | 16:17 |
| sdague | because, as much as the meeting going away simplified my Tuesdays, which are the most family time conflicting days that I have, I also do feel the loss of cadence there to anchor my brain into governance reviews | 16:18 |
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| sdague | cdent: feeling like not doing the appropriate amount of reviewing things in the gov repo | 16:18 |
| cdent | ah, okay, yeah | 16:19 |
| cdent | I have a similar feeling, but not about reviewing. I think I still manage to get to that fairly regularly, but there’s some kind of loss of formality in discussions? | 16:20 |
| cdent | action items harder to find or something like that | 16:20 |
| fungi | sdague: i felt like i wasn't doing the appropriate amount of reviewing before we stopped the meeting too | 16:24 |
| fungi | so no appreciable change for mwe | 16:24 |
| fungi | me | 16:24 |
| sdague | fungi: cool, good to know | 16:25 |
| fungi | at least i don't feel like dropping the meeting made it any worse | 16:25 |
| fungi | may have made it slightly better, but again it's a matter of personal perception | 16:25 |
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| * cdent considers ways to group these survey respones | 16:37 | |
| cdent | more people than I would have predicted expressing desire to see the design summit come back | 16:50 |
| dtroyer | it would be interesting to know a bit more of the demographics of those folk… ie, how many are primary or core contributors to projects? | 16:51 |
| dtroyer | ie, I would expect more part-time contributors to have that sentiment | 16:52 |
| cdent | dunno, I’ve been basically a full time contributor since day one and I’ve struggled to get to events more often than not | 16:54 |
| sdague | it is the problem of survey's vs. interviews | 16:56 |
| fungi | and also a bit of selection bias on who feels strongly enough about what to provide freeform feedback... usually it's going to be people with negative sentiments or unpopular ideas who feel most compelled to fill in that section | 17:03 |
| fungi | mainly because they have trouble finding a voice in the crowd, and this gives them an outlet | 17:04 |
| fungi | i'm actually surprised by the number of positive responses to those questions | 17:04 |
| cdent | yes | 17:04 |
| persia | In addition to the amount of time the folk contribute, it is interesting to ask if they have duties that involve things other than code. Some of the most vocal complainants were folk who could not attend design sessions because they needed to present other sessions or meet with key customers. | 17:20 |
| persia | Also, lack of access to Expo is something some folk have mentioned: less swag, less free dinners and drinks (not that the last PTG was particularly short on the latter). | 17:21 |
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| fungi | yeah, i think i picked up dinner for a few people on friday, but aside from that i don't recall paying for a meal all week | 17:32 |
| fungi | granted, i also don't eat much/often, so the lunches would have been enough for me to get by on if necessary. i'm aware i'm an atypical case | 17:35 |
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| cdent | ttx: “Telling people to “assume good intent” sends a message about whose feelings you plan to center when an issue arises in your community.” and the points leading up to it nail it | 18:06 |
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| openstackgerrit | Monty Taylor proposed openstack/governance master: Update PTI around documentation jobs https://review.openstack.org/508694 | 18:29 |
| openstackgerrit | Monty Taylor proposed openstack/governance master: Add mention of releasenotes to the PTI https://review.openstack.org/509868 | 18:29 |
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| smcginnis | EmilienM: ++ | 19:15 |
| EmilienM | smcginnis: thanks :) | 19:18 |
| cdent | yeah, solid EmilienM | 19:26 |
| EmilienM | cdent: thanks for your support ;-) | 19:26 |
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| fungi | yay more candidates! | 20:05 |
| fungi | i need to hurry up and finish writing mine | 20:05 |
| cdent | I’m not sure about that EmilienM person. | 20:05 |
| cdent | something fishy about them | 20:06 |
| fungi | it's because he moved to an island | 20:06 |
| fungi | island folk are all fishy | 20:06 |
| fungi | <- island folk | 20:06 |
| smcginnis | That was bad. | 20:13 |
| smcginnis | I love it. | 20:14 |
| cdent | I live in spitting distance of the sea, but on a very large island, does that make me fishy? | 20:15 |
| fungi | does it _smell_ fishy where you live? certainly does here when the wind is blowing in the right direction | 20:29 |
| cdent | sometimes | 20:29 |
| fungi | close enough then | 20:29 |
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| thingee | mtreinish: hey I was looking, apologies if I missed it, for an update on the templest plugin split for queens community-wide goal. | 21:49 |
| thingee | I've just gone through lbragstad's update. Half way through! Half way through! | 21:50 |
| mtreinish | thingee: chadankumar has been driving that effort. I said I'd shadow him, but I haven't been doing such a good job of that :/ | 21:50 |
| mtreinish | thingee: I know he was pushing out a ton of patches to projects to get that done, not sure how far along it is though | 21:50 |
| * lbragstad hands thingee a water bottle and a sweat towel | 21:51 | |
| mtreinish | thingee: I'll ask him to send out an email update on it | 21:51 |
| thingee | mtreinish: yes perfect sounds good! I do see some effort happening :) https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:goal-split-tempest-plugins | 21:52 |
| thingee | mtreinish: oh sorry missed that Chandan is now marked as championing it in the doc. Thanks! | 21:57 |
| mtreinish | thingee: fwiw, I have a feeling things on that are gonna get kinda stuck by zuul v3. It involes changing a lot of job definitions | 22:00 |
| thingee | mtreinish: can you explain more, and can we move this to #openstack-infra? | 22:01 |
| thingee | mtreinish: if you have time to discuss | 22:02 |
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| mtreinish | thingee: there's not really that much to discuss, it's just all the job definitions have to be changed to use the new split out repo | 22:04 |
| mtreinish | and with the project-config soft freeze that's a lot of churn I don't think will get through | 22:04 |
| mtreinish | and there are a lot of existing changes up that will need to add the zuul v3 config on to them | 22:04 |
| mtreinish | and I think people are still confused by that | 22:05 |
| mtreinish | thingee: we can move it to -infra if you'd like | 22:05 |
| thingee | mtreinish: I would at least like the infra team to be aware that the community-wide goal is not going to happen because of the freeze. | 22:07 |
| thingee | or reply to the thread about the soft freeze. I'm guessing that was from one of the update emails from mordred or clarkb | 22:07 |
| mtreinish | thingee: it was: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-October/123049.html | 22:08 |
| thingee | mtreinish: it seems like mordred communicated that it can be done, just has to be applied to v2 and v3. They're not running the migration script | 22:09 |
| thingee | again | 22:10 |
| mtreinish | yeah, which is where I think people get lost | 22:10 |
| mtreinish | it's just my feeling though | 22:10 |
| mtreinish | and to be fair I don't think it's a blocker yet (except for the open reviews on the topic which have -1s for missing zuul v3) | 22:11 |
| mtreinish | it's just another wrinkle in making forward progress | 22:11 |
| mordred | wrinkles wrinkles everywhere | 22:12 |
| thingee | mtreinish: ack | 22:12 |
| thingee | mtreinish: ok so chandankumar should follow up on that thread from mordred about this being a potential blocker. I just want communication and people to be aware :) | 22:14 |
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