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| jasonsb | jose-idar: hallo | 04:30 |
|---|---|---|
| jasonsb | jose-idar: if you are available tomorrow at 10am pacific time there will be a weekly meeting here in openstack-tailgate | 04:34 |
| jasonsb | jose-idar: are you welcome to attend | 04:34 |
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| jasonsb | hi all | 14:48 |
| jasonsb | i'll be missing the meeting today. taking vacation day (heading out the door right now) | 14:48 |
| malini | enjoy jasonsb ! | 14:52 |
| malini | we'll have logs & actions for you ;) | 14:52 |
| jasonsb | oh can't wait | 14:54 |
| jasonsb | actually i would like to get the inspector thing going | 14:54 |
| jasonsb | try to spend some time in next few days. i got a little busy at work last few days :( | 14:55 |
| gema | hey guys | 14:56 |
| gema | was I supposed to chair today's meeting? | 14:56 |
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| gema | I have had a special week and cannot remember anything about last thursday before the storm x) | 14:56 |
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| malini | gema: yeap - you are our chair today :) | 15:01 |
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| gema | malini: ok, I will try to get 10 mins for the agenda later | 15:03 |
| gema | I haven't been able to do anything at all this week :S | 15:03 |
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| spyderdyne | can anyone point me to the talks we submitted? | 16:22 |
| spyderdyne | need to document title, presenter list, and track for each one of them for internal purposes | 16:23 |
| spyderdyne | but i dont know how to find them | 16:23 |
| malini | spyderdyne: 1Testing Beyond the Gate - Openstack Tailgate | 16:32 |
| malini | 2Testing Beyond the Gate - Validating Production Clouds | 16:32 |
| malini | they shud be under ur OS profile | 16:32 |
| spyderdyne | ok | 16:38 |
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| malini | I am going to join the meeting a lil late today - will be late by ~ 15 min | 16:41 |
| gema | spyderdyne: they are on your openstack page | 16:48 |
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| gema | spyderdyne: you can either log in here: https://www.openstack.org/summit/tokyo-2015/call-for-speakers/ or go to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tailgaters-tokyo-summit (proposal A & B) | 16:51 |
| gema | #startmeeting tailgate | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jul 23 17:00:11 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tailgate' | 17:00 |
| gema | #topic rollcall | 17:00 |
| gema | o/ | 17:00 |
| gema | anyone around for the meeting today? | 17:00 |
| jose-idar | I am here | 17:00 |
| jose-idar | :) | 17:00 |
| gema | hello jose-idar, can you introduce yourself, plz | 17:01 |
| gema | I don't think I know you | 17:01 |
| gema | (whilst the others arrive ;) | 17:01 |
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| jose-idar | Hi! I'm QE for CloudBlockStorage at The Castle (for Rackspace). | 17:01 |
| malini | welcome jose-idar :) | 17:02 |
| gema | coolio, another rackspacer :D welcome! | 17:02 |
| jose-idar | You can blame me for things like Opencafe and data driven testing :) | 17:02 |
| gema | good, will do :D | 17:02 |
| gema | malini: o/ | 17:02 |
| spyderdyne | i think htey call themselves rackers :) | 17:02 |
| gema | ups :D | 17:02 |
| jose-idar | hi malini! | 17:02 |
| malini | some of us do :) | 17:03 |
| malini | its great to have you here jose-idar | 17:03 |
| gema | indeed | 17:03 |
| gema | anyone else around today? ( I think we'll move into topics at 5 past) | 17:04 |
| jose-idar | super interested in what ya'll have going on. specifically the mission statement. I love the idea of a community growing around the idea that Openstack needs far more than just gate tests. | 17:04 |
| gema | jose-idar: indeed, you are going to have to give us an intro to data driven testing | 17:04 |
| gema | we'll embrace it, I think :D | 17:04 |
| jose-idar | ! definetly a goal :) | 17:04 |
| openstack | jose-idar: Error: "definetly" is not a valid command. | 17:04 |
| gema | lol | 17:05 |
| gema | openstack: we are good, thanks | 17:05 |
| jose-idar | ha! | 17:05 |
| gema | alright, moving on | 17:05 |
| gema | #topic Actions from last week | 17:05 |
| malini | I am trying to find our 'master' etherpad link | 17:05 |
| malini | anybody has it handy? | 17:05 |
| gema | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-tailgaters | 17:06 |
| spyderdyne | posted my email ocnvo with Boris on etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-tailgate-rallyCleanupDiscussion | 17:06 |
| spyderdyne | convo | 17:06 |
| malini | thanks gema.. | 17:06 |
| gema | np | 17:06 |
| gema | spyderdyne: context? | 17:06 |
| malini | jose-idar: the link has some stuff we have been talking over the last 2-3 months | 17:06 |
| gema | spyderdyne: oh, your first action | 17:06 |
| jose-idar | reading now, many thanks | 17:06 |
| gema | ACTION: : spyderdyne composing a spec to present to rally on topic of rally cleanup | 17:06 |
| spyderdyne | one of my action items was to contact Boris and discuss ways to provide better cleanup after rally tasks in the event of some type of failure | 17:07 |
| gema | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-tailgate-rallyCleanupDiscussion | 17:07 |
| gema | spyderdyne: what was the outcome of the conversation? | 17:07 |
| spyderdyne | they are working on the cleanup feature and it will be similar to the bash example i provided in the thread | 17:08 |
| spyderdyne | (stolen from KloudBuster) | 17:08 |
| gema | spyderdyne: so you'll be collaborating with them on that or let them do their thing and then review? | 17:08 |
| spyderdyne | i will be monitoring and assist if they want help with it | 17:08 |
| gema | spyderdyne: ack, keep us posted | 17:08 |
| spyderdyne | but it is already WIP | 17:08 |
| spyderdyne | will do | 17:09 |
| gema | ACTION: : spyderdyne to give more updates on HA testing | 17:09 |
| gema | any news? | 17:09 |
| spyderdyne | HA test plans are created. working with another Cisco internal team on them. Unable to run due to PTO and our target environment not being ready yet | 17:10 |
| gema | spyderdyne: do you want me to keep this action on the list or do y ou want me to drop it? | 17:10 |
| spyderdyne | i would rather not share them until we know they work. will update as i get more to share | 17:10 |
| gema | maybe a better way of doing this is you schedule a presentation whenever you are ready to share | 17:10 |
| spyderdyne | keep it | 17:10 |
| gema | ok | 17:10 |
| spyderdyne | definitely | 17:11 |
| gema | #ACTION spyderdyne to give more updates on HA testing | 17:11 |
| spyderdyne | roger roger | 17:11 |
| gema | not sure if the bot works with capitalized actions | 17:11 |
| gema | I guess we'll find out | 17:11 |
| gema | ACTION: spyderdyne, jasonsb to send out the google survey link on per project testing strategies | 17:11 |
| gema | jason is not around today | 17:11 |
| gema | so another one on you spyderdyne | 17:11 |
| spyderdyne | i completed the survey questions and turned them over for merciless editing | 17:12 |
| gema | spyderdyne: where are we editing them? | 17:12 |
| malini | & we were merciless enough to not edit it :-$ | 17:12 |
| spyderdyne | i would like everyone to take a few minutes to review them and give notes or approve before we try sending them out | 17:12 |
| spyderdyne | lol | 17:12 |
| malini | will do spyderdyne | 17:12 |
| gema | spyderdyne: can you send an email requesting a review and we can do this over email? | 17:12 |
| gema | maybe send a google doc where we can add comments? | 17:13 |
| gema | instead of the one where you are supposed to answer the questions | 17:13 |
| spyderdyne | i tried digging everyone's email addresses out but failed to do so | 17:13 |
| gema | spyderdyne: send it to the mailing | 17:13 |
| malini | spyderdyne: are u in the tailgate ML ? | 17:13 |
| spyderdyne | currently the questionaire is open to editing by anyone who has the link that i provided last week | 17:13 |
| gema | openstack-tailgaters@external.cisco.com | 17:13 |
| spyderdyne | we will tighten that down once we are happy with it | 17:13 |
| malini | jose-idar: we need to get you added to tht | 17:13 |
| jose-idar | ah. thanks! | 17:14 |
| gema | spyderdyne: I get a weblike page where I can answer the questions, not a document I can edit | 17:14 |
| spyderdyne | will send the invite out to that addr then | 17:14 |
| gema | https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/forms/d/1fbY5MpMgnQmYT1l2KSjfUkKFqO_xnvgWWeTW4tt93ro/viewform | 17:14 |
| malini | same here | 17:14 |
| spyderdyne | b/c it is unlocked for everyone right now | 17:14 |
| spyderdyne | that will change once we are ready to push it out | 17:14 |
| malini | spyderdyne: all I can do with tht is answer the questions | 17:15 |
| spyderdyne | live form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1fbY5MpMgnQmYT1l2KSjfUkKFqO_xnvgWWeTW4tt93ro/viewform | 17:16 |
| spyderdyne | #link https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1fbY5MpMgnQmYT1l2KSjfUkKFqO_xnvgWWeTW4tt93ro/viewform | 17:17 |
| gema | spyderdyne: I have created a public doc, can you copy the questions there and then ask the mailing to comment? | 17:17 |
| gema | https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1fbY5MpMgnQmYT1l2KSjfUkKFqO_xnvgWWeTW4tt93ro/viewform | 17:17 |
| gema | no, sorry | 17:17 |
| spyderdyne | responses #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U63d9y4rhz03TpqK9SpSGMNT7IzAv6m_gMSrjn4S3wA/edit#gid=2011115021 | 17:17 |
| gema | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gt_HuP8dJvDZHdjjGZVcnUydpzjhijMj3c-Ehu_cw4U/edit | 17:17 |
| spyderdyne | edit form #link https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1fbY5MpMgnQmYT1l2KSjfUkKFqO_xnvgWWeTW4tt93ro/edit | 17:17 |
| gema | spyderdyne: that still doesn't allow us to have a conversation, just edit | 17:18 |
| spyderdyne | not messy at all right? ;) | 17:18 |
| gema | spyderdyne: totally x) | 17:18 |
| spyderdyne | will create a new etherpad for forms discussion. | 17:18 |
| gema | #action spyderdyne to start a questionaire review on the ML | 17:19 |
| gema | #action malini to get jose-idar on the mailing | 17:19 |
| malini | let me do tht right away - I have very short term memory | 17:19 |
| spyderdyne | etherpad discusison #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-tailgate-forms-discussion | 17:19 |
| gema | spyderdyne: any #link command preceeded by words, won't be picked by the bot | 17:20 |
| spyderdyne | ok | 17:20 |
| gema | I was wondering how to make all those links appear in the log | 17:20 |
| gema | x) | 17:20 |
| gema | spyderdyne: just for the future | 17:20 |
| gema | spyderdyne: in any case, put them in your email, together with the one we can all review and collaborate on, that way everybody has them handy | 17:21 |
| gema | ok, that settles the questionaire actions, cos our mailing review substitutes the action about finalizing details | 17:22 |
| gema | next actions are mine | 17:22 |
| gema | #action gema to submit a few test runs of refstack and get familiar with it | 17:22 |
| gema | #action gema to talk to matthew about stable tempest kilo and report back | 17:22 |
| gema | #action gema to send out the defcore details on actionable gaps | 17:22 |
| gema | I am sorry folks, we were flooded on the night from thursday to friday and my week went downhill from there | 17:23 |
| gema | hopefully this week will be more productive workwise :) | 17:23 |
| jose-idar | malini: jose.idar@rackspace.com | 17:23 |
| malini | gema: oops! I hope everything is in a recoverable state | 17:23 |
| malini | jose-idar: I already emailed the ML owner & added you in cc | 17:24 |
| gema | malini: yep, all sort of ok, plenty of furniture in the wrong place, that's all | 17:24 |
| spyderdyne | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U63d9y4rhz03TpqK9SpSGMNT7IzAv6m_gMSrjn4S3wA/edit#gid=2011115021 | 17:24 |
| spyderdyne | <gema> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gt_HuP8dJvDZHdjjGZVcnUydpzjhijMj3c-Ehu_cw4U/edit | 17:24 |
| spyderdyne | #link https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1fbY5MpMgnQmYT1l2KSjfUkKFqO_xnvgWWeTW4tt93ro/edit | 17:24 |
| spyderdyne | they shoudl be captured by the bot now | 17:24 |
| gema | spyderdyne: perfect, thanks | 17:25 |
| gema | moving on to next topic then | 17:25 |
| gema | unless you guys think I am missing anything? | 17:25 |
| gema | 3 | 17:25 |
| gema | 2 | 17:25 |
| gema | 1 | 17:25 |
| malini | 0 | 17:25 |
| gema | #topic inspector gadget | 17:25 |
| gema | anyone present and able to talk about this topic? | 17:25 |
| spyderdyne | @boomGoesTheDynamite | 17:26 |
| gema | spyderdyne: does that mean yes? | 17:26 |
| gema | or shall I add an action for jasonb on this one? | 17:26 |
| gema | not sure if we are allowed to give actions to non present people :D | 17:27 |
| spyderdyne | i wasnt involved in that work | 17:27 |
| spyderdyne | we are | 17:27 |
| spyderdyne | they can decline them if they need to | 17:27 |
| gema | #action jasonb to give an update on inspector gadget efforts | 17:27 |
| gema | coolio | 17:27 |
| gema | I am not going to make questionaire a topic again cos we kind of discussed next steps already | 17:27 |
| gema | #topic AOB | 17:28 |
| malini | sounds good | 17:28 |
| malini | what is AOB ? | 17:28 |
| gema | any other business? | 17:28 |
| malini | :D | 17:28 |
| malini | anybody made it to the defcore meeting? | 17:28 |
| gema | I didn't , was dealing with house stuff :/ | 17:29 |
| malini | I keep forgetting :/ | 17:29 |
| gema | malini: don't worry, I am still traumatized, it'll fade :D | 17:29 |
| malini | :D | 17:29 |
| malini | I meant, I keep forgetting to attend the defcore meeting | 17:29 |
| gema | ahhh x) | 17:29 |
| malini | trauma is my permanent state | 17:29 |
| gema | put it in your calendar | 17:29 |
| gema | the machine will annoy you to no end | 17:30 |
| gema | so you remember | 17:30 |
| malini | good point | 17:30 |
| malini | for anybody else who need te info 'Weekly on Wednesday at http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=15&min=00&sec=0 in ircs://irc.freenode.net:6697/openstack-meeting-4' | 17:30 |
| gema | yep | 17:31 |
| gema | I think this week was their midcycle | 17:31 |
| gema | I may be wrong | 17:31 |
| gema | maybe they didn't even do the meeting yesterday :? | 17:31 |
| gema | anyway, the only other topic is next week's chair | 17:32 |
| gema | any volunteers? | 17:32 |
| malini | I can take tht | 17:33 |
| gema | thanks :D | 17:33 |
| malini | yw :) | 17:33 |
| gema | we have some time, jose-idar do you want to tell us a bit about data driven testing? | 17:33 |
| gema | I am quite interested in what you have to say | 17:33 |
| jose-idar | Only that through much experimentation, I've found it to be a huge leap forward from the way Tempest approaches testing in general. | 17:34 |
| gema | what is it exactly? | 17:34 |
| jose-idar | In practice, (implementation through, say, unittest), it's as easy as test methods that take parameters | 17:35 |
| gema | yep, but what is it? | 17:35 |
| jose-idar | There's a lib called ddt for python that adds this to unittest, and we use a similar library internally. | 17:35 |
| jose-idar | the gist is that you write a test that makes a single assumption, and drive that assumption over many sets of data. | 17:36 |
| gema | jose-idar: can you give me an example of what one of these test cases would look like writen in english | 17:36 |
| gema | rather than implementation details | 17:36 |
| jose-idar | creating a server over combinations of imaegs and flvors for instance. | 17:36 |
| gema | ahh | 17:36 |
| malini | not to hijack from jose-idar, but here is an example testscenarios claims to do something similar & is openstack blessed | 17:37 |
| malini | blah | 17:37 |
| malini | nvm | 17:37 |
| jose-idar | the idea is the make the tests simple and non-enviornment dependent. | 17:37 |
| malini | let me try again | 17:37 |
| malini | https://github.com/stackforge/poppy/blob/master/tests/api/services/test_services.py#L211 | 17:37 |
| jose-idar | malini: Awesome! I couldn't remember what that was called, but that's where I first saw ddt | 17:37 |
| jose-idar | the lib | 17:37 |
| malini | testscenarios is the openstack approved lib to do something similar - But I haven't had any luck understanding it & the docs are sparse | 17:38 |
| gema | malini: that's because everybody talks implementation | 17:38 |
| gema | I wanted to understand how you conceptualize the tests, so if I got it right | 17:38 |
| jose-idar | If we could get tempest to allow this kind of test writing, it would make testing on things that are not devstack much easier and more useful. | 17:38 |
| gema | jose-idar, you'd take the outcome of a combinatorial tree and implement your test cases from there | 17:38 |
| gema | trying to cover as many combinations as it makes sense, etc | 17:39 |
| gema | right? | 17:39 |
| jose-idar | for a complete scenario sure, but filtering those datasets down is just as important | 17:39 |
| gema | jose-idar: have you heard of classification tree method? | 17:39 |
| jose-idar | It's proven very useful for security to write fuzzing tests this way, iterating over known sets of sql injection strings for example. | 17:39 |
| malini | hmmm….I believe combinatorial is where testscenarios comes in | 17:39 |
| gema | jose-idar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_Tree_Method | 17:40 |
| gema | this is what I would use to trim down :D | 17:40 |
| jose-idar | in practice though, the datasets are largely driven by buisness logic | 17:40 |
| jose-idar | you may not want users using certain combos of images and flavors, for example | 17:40 |
| gema | yep | 17:41 |
| spyderdyne | arent you already telling images what flavors they can use? | 17:41 |
| spyderdyne | the image meta should return a list of valid flavors right? | 17:42 |
| jose-idar | sure, but relying on the mechanisms that nova relies on is only testing half of the problem. You could also check the combinations they dont' allow, for example. | 17:42 |
| gema | as a negative scenario | 17:42 |
| spyderdyne | gotcha | 17:42 |
| *** dwalleck has joined #openstack-tailgate | 17:42 | |
| spyderdyne | so run though all flavors and record the result, marking a fail as a pass for a disallowed flavor | 17:42 |
| jose-idar | and for the most part, making the tests generate the datasets on the fly via api calls at run time solves a lot of problems | 17:42 |
| *** dwalleck has quit IRC | 17:43 | |
| malini | AFAIK negative tests were not in the scope of old tempest | 17:43 |
| gema | jose-idar: but you need to verify that those apis are returning the right thing | 17:43 |
| jose-idar | grabbing that list and inverting the expectation is an instant, complete set of negative tests. | 17:43 |
| spyderdyne | right | 17:43 |
| gema | malini: there are some negative tests, I believe | 17:43 |
| gema | but not many | 17:43 |
| *** dwalleck has joined #openstack-tailgate | 17:43 | |
| gema | there were, I don't know where they are now | 17:43 |
| jose-idar | gema: yep! We've even had tests that take their expectation as a parameter, for example. | 17:43 |
| gema | jose-idar: that is all very interesting | 17:44 |
| gema | we'll need to keep chatting about this as we start to generate tests | 17:44 |
| jose-idar | It'd be an easy way to decrease coverage gaps and increase visibility of edge case bugs | 17:44 |
| gema | to make sure we make the most of the development effort, we don't have a lot of manpower | 17:44 |
| gema | but we do have a lot of gaps | 17:44 |
| jose-idar | it's also great for stress/perforamance testing. | 17:44 |
| gema | yep, I will probably grab your help afterI send the email with the gaps/tests from defcore tot he list | 17:45 |
| gema | so that you put me on the right track to start adding coverage | 17:45 |
| jose-idar | sounds like a plan! Like I said, i'm just really excited about the prospect of making things better all around :D | 17:46 |
| gema | jose-idar: likewise | 17:46 |
| gema | we all are :D | 17:46 |
| gema | coolio, anymore questions/topics/concerns/rants? | 17:47 |
| gema | then I will give you guys 10+ mins back on your day :D | 17:47 |
| gema | #endmeeting | 17:47 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jul 23 17:47:55 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tailgate/2015/tailgate.2015-07-23-17.00.html | 17:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tailgate/2015/tailgate.2015-07-23-17.00.txt | 17:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tailgate/2015/tailgate.2015-07-23-17.00.log.html | 17:48 |
| malini | thanks gema! | 17:48 |
| gema | thank you all for coming! | 17:48 |
| *** zz_dimtruck is now known as dimtruck | 17:48 | |
| gema | malini: forgot to say you are chairing on an action | 17:48 |
| gema | sorry! | 17:48 |
| malini | np..I'll remember tht | 17:48 |
| gema | malini: ack, thanks :D | 17:48 |
| gema | good night folks, and have a lovely weekend | 17:49 |
| malini | you too | 17:49 |
| gema | will send the email to the list tomorrow morning :D | 17:49 |
| malini | hope you get ur sanity back! | 17:49 |
| gema | uhmmm... I never had it malini, let's not kid ourselves ;) | 17:50 |
| malini | :D | 17:50 |
| gema | thx :D | 17:50 |
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