| gtema | JayF, adamcarthur5: I mean https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/new-language-requirements.html https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20150901-programming-languages.html and https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20170329-golang-use-case.html | 07:53 |
|---|---|---|
| opendevreview | Takashi Natsume proposed openstack/python-openstackclient master: Replace deprecated datetime.utcnow() https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/python-openstackclient/+/930810 | 11:09 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/codegenerator master: Fix identity resource link code https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/codegenerator/+/933765 | 11:53 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/keystoneauth master: pre-commit: Bump versions https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/keystoneauth/+/932980 | 14:25 |
| opendevreview | Artem Goncharov proposed openstack/openstacksdk master: pre-commit: Migrate pyupgrade to ruff-format https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstacksdk/+/929160 | 14:33 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/keystoneauth master: docs: Fix indentation https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/keystoneauth/+/930885 | 15:34 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/keystoneauth master: typing: Resolve unnecessary typing ignore https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/keystoneauth/+/932981 | 15:39 |
| stephenfin | adamcarthur5: \o/ | 16:16 |
| JayF | gtema: I'll note that 20170329 resolution was passed /after/ the golang code had already existed :-) | 17:22 |
| gtema | There is too much room for interpretation from my pov | 17:23 |
| JayF | gtema: I think the backstory behind was more or less Rackspace's Swift servers were melting, and the devs prefered to have a working service and needing to ask forgiveness to other approaches :) (this is from my very-lossy-memory of events long ago, so take it with a grain of salt) | 19:16 |
| gtema | Something like that is written in one of those resolutions | 19:19 |
| gtema | But that doesn't help us getting rust in | 19:20 |
| gtema | Getting rust SDK in is actually not a problem, but into the service code is likely not possible without separate resolution allowing rust | 19:21 |
| JayF | Well, you would've had another +1 to that resolution had you got it before the TC in the last two years :)O | 19:33 |
| JayF | Although I guess you have that spot now :D | 19:33 |
| gtema | JayF every time I was raising the discussion amount of "amusement" was very limited | 19:37 |
| gtema | Unless we have more other cores supporting that it is going to be terrible hard | 19:38 |
| JayF | Yeah, as I said originally; most opposition to *any* openstack proposal is "do we have enough hands to do it". Right now we don't have enough rust developers; but I'd assume such a move would be accompanied by an investment to ensure we did have them. Otherwise it'd just be a one person show, right? | 19:54 |
| gtema | That should not be the reason to use ineffective tools for a job, but I know what you mean | 20:04 |
| JayF | I just see it as an investment choice by our employers; if G-Research, for instance, had a use case or security concern that rustifying something openstack would help, we'd likely approach it with promises of ft engineers alongside the proposal. I do feel strongly that "ability to maintain" is a reasonable thing to consider when picking a tool. | 20:12 |
| gtema | That didn't help kuryr, didn't help trove, senlin, Sahara etc (the list is very long), so in my eyes this is a misleading argument | 20:17 |
| JayF | gtema: I suspect those projects being less maintained is more related to their relative popularity, especially among the companies that fund most openstack contribution. For instance, my downstream doesn't deploy *any* of the smaller openstack projects. | 20:19 |
| gtema | So what would be the difference if those would be using different programming language. I just want to say that maintainability has not much to do with the programming language. Every task requires the correct tool and you will not use a screwdriver for fixing leaking pipes | 20:21 |
| JayF | Maybe I'm telling on myself a little; but if you handed me "rust" as a tool I'm going to be really, really ineffective. It's a completely different paradigm than python -- and I, like some other openstack contributors, are as much "operators who learned python" as they are classical software developers, so it's a little more of a lift to change something so drastic. | 20:25 |
| JayF | (full disclosure: I <3 rust from a what-it-does-with-memory-safety standpoint; I just don't know how to write it :D) | 20:25 |
| gtema | I get you fully. But this argument should not be used to block others from sustainably improving security and performance of OpenStack when others are willing to do so. | 20:27 |
| JayF | I've already indicated I would probably have +1'd such a proposal when I was on TC, even with these reservations :) | 20:28 |
| JayF | so I agree with you on that, but I also think it's exceedingly reasonable to feel differently | 20:28 |
| JayF | Hard questions with no right answers are pretty miserable :) | 20:28 |
| gtema | Yes, sadly. I am just getting angry when people say: "I can't help you therefore I forbid you doing that" | 20:32 |
| gtema | Anyway, if you are ever willing to kick that discussion again and search for support - you know where to find me ;-) | 20:33 |
| adamcarthur5 | I am confident we can get this merged stephenfin https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/928919?tab=comments | 22:24 |
| adamcarthur5 | Testing code against a devstack here: https://gist.github.com/Sharpz7/97356eb57f77d3ee75892791c6cab155 | 22:25 |
| adamcarthur5 | (I will eventually get this in the integration tests if it is not already) | 22:25 |
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