Friday, 2016-10-07

openstackgerritMerged openstack/python-openstackclient: Enable release notes translation  https://review.openstack.org/38338200:15
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/python-openstackclient: Mask passwords in debug logs for auth_config_hook  https://review.openstack.org/38269901:34
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rcerninHi! OSC can I ask about the shell formatter: https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-openstackclient/+bug/1616323 I've been told its hard to maintain, so is there actually any hope for having this fixed?09:21
openstackLaunchpad bug 1616323 in python-openstackclient "make openstack cli -f shell output friendly to bash" [Undecided,New]09:21
openstackgerritReedip proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Add necessary info to Floating IP list  https://review.openstack.org/38165809:22
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openstackgerritKyrylo Romanenko proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Improve output of supported API versions  https://review.openstack.org/38292310:56
openstackgerritKyrylo Romanenko proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Improve output of supported API versions  https://review.openstack.org/38292311:02
openstackgerritKyrylo Romanenko proposed openstack/osc-lib: Improve output of supported client versions  https://review.openstack.org/38300011:05
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openstackgerritMatt Riedemann proposed openstack/osc-lib: Add release note for security bug 1630822  https://review.openstack.org/38375514:11
openstackbug 1630822 in OpenStack Security Advisory "Debug and -vv outputs user password in plain text" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163082214:11
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timrcstevemar: Yo yo!14:39
* stevemar waves at timrc14:39
stevemardtroyer_zz: we have unhappy customers!14:39
stevemarhttps://twitter.com/timrchavez/status/78438430072879923314:39
* timrc wields pitchfork14:39
* stevemar uses his laptop as a shield14:40
stevemarso we could make the error message happen easily14:40
timrcSo, if can (and I think we mostly do) agree that requiring someone to explicitly install an older client to get access to the features in the new client is not an ideal experience.14:41
stevemarwe could also make the "pip install openstackclient[orchestration]14:41
stevemar bit easily work too14:41
timrcIf the reason it's explicit is because the implementation in the new client is experimental, I think we just need to state that.14:41
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stevemarthe reason it's explicit is because the code base is in heatclient :(14:42
timrcOr yeah maybe we do openstackclient[stable] and openstackclient[devel|experimental|all|whatever] which would enable All Teh Things, experimental or otherwise.14:42
stevemarhmmm14:43
stevemaryou guys install with pip right? not the packaged stuff?14:43
timrcpip yeah14:43
stevemari kinda like that, but decided what is experimental and not would be funny14:43
timrcSo if it's just because OS client is acting as a wrapper maybe openstackclient[core] and openstackclient[all]14:44
stevemarwhen you install heatclient the entrypoint is created for OSC to pickup: https://github.com/openstack/python-heatclient/blob/master/setup.cfg#L31-L3414:45
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stevemarwe could do openstackclient[all] easily14:46
timrcI think Nicola has a point too... what would be the harm of just installing python-heatclient as a dep to osc?  From a user perspective you just expect it to be there.14:46
timrcIs it that you don't want bug reports for heat coming in through osc?14:46
stevemarnah, those are easy to redirect14:47
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stevemarpart of that reasoning 1) we don't want "help" to explode and 2) we didn't want to install all the dependecies that the various clients have14:47
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stevemari think 2 is less of an issue now: fewer clients are doing silly things, more are using global requirements to sync up14:48
stevemarbut where is the line drawn, we can install heat cmds, but why not barbican14:48
* stevemar goes to get breakfast14:48
stevemar(10 feet away in the kitchen)14:49
timrcNo it's all or nothing, I think.14:49
stevemartimrc: damn big tent14:51
timrcFrom a user perspective I'd much rather install 9,000 deps than having cli fragmentation.  Stil lots of value of providing a wrapper around heat in OSC as an example.  If someone did not know that could install python-heatclient to enable heat in OSC, then they're liable to just use OSC.  Not sure if there's a deprecation warning in python-heatclient, but it could get confusing.14:51
timrcum14:52
timrcliable to just use python-heatclent14:52
stevemartimrc: that would mean installing all these: https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient/blob/master/test-requirements.txt#L26-L3914:52
timrcheatclient* I cannot type.  Slack has ruined me.14:52
stevemar:)14:52
stevemartimrc: at the minimum, we could easily add a [all] target and allow you to install all the deps, i think that is fair14:53
timrcstevemar: Is the intention for all those clients to go away eventually and have native implementations in OSC?14:53
stevemartimrc: i think so. i would like that.14:54
stevemartimrc: some obviously will be around longer than others14:54
stevemarbut they would go away like keystoneclient did14:54
stevemarsome of the smaller projects already tossed away their old CLIs14:54
timrcSo installing them all everytime should give us more impetus to get rid of them :P14:56
stevemartimrc: let me look at the dependencies that would be brought in14:56
stevemarif it's only a handful, i am not against it14:56
stevemartimrc: would you like to see that by default or using someting like [all]14:57
stevemartimrc: what slack is kennedy talking about?15:00
stevemarthe cloud-platform one?15:00
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* dtroyer_zz sigs15:48
dtroyer_zzok, here's the thing15:48
* rdodev pays attention15:48
dtroyer_zzOSC currently uses the project client libraries as their Python->REST layer, eventually we want the SDK but we're not there yet15:49
dtroyer_zzexcept for Network, that uses the SDK, except Neutron is adding more plugin stuff into neutronclient anyway, so we'll stll need it anyway for some things15:49
timrcstevemar: Reading up... had a phone call aka I work for IBM.15:49
dtroyer_zzThe dpendencies for OSc are bad now, only get worse if we install all 25 cleint libraries15:49
dtroyer_zzfor some use cases, that might be a don't-care, for others it is a mess15:50
dtroyer_zzThis is the compromise we have.15:50
dtroyer_zzAlso, some projects didn't want to 'let go' of their CLI totally and want control over it directly, so they like the plugins15:51
dtroyer_zzothers don't want to touch it at all15:51
timrcdtroyer_zz: You just managed to depress me with that last statement :)15:52
dtroyer_zzif we had a reasonable install story that, say, didn't require a windows user to install a runtime, binary support packages, and 30+ python packages, I'd be much more willing to just throw everything into the box15:52
timrcOops scroll up... the whole "except Network, that uses the SDK, except Neutron..."15:52
dtroyer_zztimrc: welcome to client-land15:52
rdodevSo, again, from the pure UX perspective, I'd say leave those projects out of the new CLI entirely. It's easier to say "the new CLI doesn't support that service, use their CLI instead" as opposed to "oh we do support it, but you have to install X first"15:53
dtroyer_zzthis is where my old-fart background in TurboPASCAL makes me long for mostly-pre-linked binaries15:53
timrcMy thoughts are we should install all the clients, if it sucks, it sucks.  OSC should not hide anything.15:53
briancurtinso just make openstack even worse?15:53
dtroyer_zzso here's part of the plan:  osc-lib will be growing easy support for a plugin to do exactly that, except its designed for things like a stand-alone Ironic install that doesn't want the rest of OpenStack stuff15:54
rdodevBut then we can make it great again15:54
timrcbriancurtin: What's the point of OSC then if not to unify the cli?15:54
briancurtinit’s not to unify a bunch of shit15:54
dtroyer_zzit _is_ unifying the CLI, and doing it in a way that anyone (really!) can be part of it15:54
briancurtincould just make a metapackage that does that15:54
timrcWhat makes OpenStack worse is a proliferation of clients and fragmentation.15:54
briancurtinand that’s why OSC and SDK exist...15:55
briancurtinthose 30+ clients are all bad. all different. an absolute mess. OSC provides a sheen on top of some of that, will eventually just go to openstacksdk15:56
dtroyer_zz<rant> It's easy to throw stones, its hard to go pick them up and contribute to building the pyramid.  Basically 5 people are doing the bulk of the OSC and SDK work.</rant>15:57
timrcJust take the usability case where I see an example of someone using 'openstack stack' to do stuff with heat, I go install OSC in my venv, and then get:15:57
timrcopenstack: 'stack' is not an openstack command. See 'openstack --help'.15:57
timrcDid you mean one of these?15:57
timrc  backup create15:57
timrc  backup delete15:57
timrc  backup list15:57
timrc  backup restore15:57
timrc  backup show15:57
dtroyer_zzyup, it sucks.  only the other things we've had are worse15:58
dtroyer_zzI am (SERIOUSLY!!) wanting to scrap our help and start over.  But we thought being able to log in using KSA plugins was more important, Neutron commands were more important, etc15:59
timrcGenerating that example above was interesting, prompted me for a password.  Strange :P15:59
dtroyer_zzyup, too many things need to auth to even find out WTF is going on15:59
dtroyer_zzsome people want it to do that to even show you any comamnd list15:59
timrcI don't even have to authenticate though, I just it enter to get passed the password prompt.16:00
timrc:mindblown:16:00
dtroyer_zzheh, nice16:00
dtroyer_zzbug please?16:00
timrcdtroyer_zz: Sure thing16:00
dtroyer_zzthanks16:01
timrcSo since we don't even know 'stack' is an option in OSC before installing python-heatclient, I think I like stevemar's suggestion to create another package called python-openstackclient[all] which installs all the deps.  What are others' thoughts?16:02
dtroyer_zzso timrc, back to your original point, we could keep a list of known plugins in OSC, and show the user a prompt to install the appropriate package when it is not available.16:02
dtroyer_zzHow do we do that for N packaging systems?16:02
dtroyer_zzA metapackage would work, that would at least be packaging system-specific16:03
timrcEh yeah... I forget about all of those :P16:03
timrcdtroyer_zz: Keeping track of plugins can work... really if 'openstack stack foo' returned 'Please install python-heatclient to enable' I think that would be okay.16:03
dtroyer_zzwe have to a) maintain that list and b) force all of the downstreams to update that text for their environment16:04
dtroyer_zzand then, still know the difference between a typo and a command we don't know about16:04
timrcWe should just stub subcommands in OSC and allow plugins to override them?16:05
dtroyer_zzwe do keep a top-level list of known plugins in our docs, but not a list of their commands16:05
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dtroyer_zzwe would need to have at a minimum a list of all resources that map to the right plugin16:05
timrcAnd it's just best effort for our clients? I mean we have a set of popular clients, that's a good start.16:06
dtroyer_zzoh, plugins overriding built-ins?  that's on the list, there are two things reuired before we get to that16:06
dtroyer_zzone of them is not fixing help :)16:07
timrclol16:07
dtroyer_zzneither is the other16:07
dtroyer_zzhonestly, I am so glad to be having this kind of feedback conversation rather what we had three years ago16:08
dtroyer_zzit means we're making significant progress16:08
timrcOSC is a great joy to use.  Even in the last year it's gotten much better.16:08
timrcGetting subnet commands into OSC was huge.16:08
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dtroyer_zzit has, thanks to a bunch of folks help.  rtheis and the Neutron folks have done a TON of work16:09
timrcOkay I have a lunch date with my 5yo daughter.  I'll be back soon-ish16:14
dtroyer_zzbest kind of date!16:17
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openstackgerritDean Troyer proposed openstack/osc-lib: Remove os-client-config hacks for 1.19.x and 1.20.x  https://review.openstack.org/35827816:26
stevemaroh dang this moved on16:26
stevemartimrc: dawwww16:27
stevemardtroyer_zz: reading up16:27
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dtroyer_zzstevemar: I added the metapackage idea to the summit etherpad16:28
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stevemarOK caught up16:33
stevemardtroyer_zz: timrc the bug you refer to for auth prompting if fixed and should be in 3.3.016:33
stevemardtroyer_zz, timrc the whole "plugins stomping on each others commands" thing should be eliminated now16:33
stevemardtroyer_zz: it sounds crazy but a hardcoded list of what commands map to which extension doesn't seem to bonkers to me16:34
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dtroyer_zzthe plugin command bit was more about having a registry in OSC itself mapping plugin commands back to the pacakges required to be installed, similar to what dpkg/apt does16:35
stevemar"Basically 5 people are doing the bulk of the OSC and SDK work" <<< when they have time :)16:35
dtroyer_zzmaintaining that is the primary problem16:35
stevemardtroyer_zz: so i did a quick analysis of the various clients and requirements16:36
stevemardtroyer_zz: it's actually not bad16:36
stevemardtroyer_zz: http://paste.openstack.org/show/584873/16:37
stevemardtroyer_zz: do a find for "****"16:37
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stevemarthere are actually only 5 libraries that would need to be installed in addition to what we already lay down16:38
dtroyer_zzk16:38
dtroyer_zzI thought pyOpenSSL came with glanceclient16:38
stevemarapparently not16:38
stevemarhttps://github.com/openstack/python-glanceclient/blob/master/requirements.txt16:38
dtroyer_zzwhen did that happen???16:39
dtroyer_zzI'm happy, but unaware16:39
* stevemar shrugs16:40
stevemardtroyer_zz: so if we take out the deps that muranoclient brings in (pyopenssl and yaql), then it's only 3 with minimal deps (dogpile.cache, swiftclient and appsdir)16:41
stevemari list those at the end16:41
dtroyer_zzso, yeah, glancecleint really doesn't need openssl anymore16:41
dtroyer_zzwoot!16:41
stevemardtroyer_zz: so in theory the dependency argument is not an issue :P16:42
dtroyer_zzok, so the real issue is just how many plugin packages would be added16:42
dtroyer_zzha16:42
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stevemarright, i think we could picky here16:42
stevemarsee which projects have been around the longest and are most mature16:43
dtroyer_zzI think we should count vowels in the project anmes and use that as our filter16:43
stevemarlol16:43
stevemarfewer or more is better?16:43
dtroyer_zzI'm still on the side of fewer, as the total number is still absurd16:44
dtroyer_zzbut the delta is less than we thought16:44
stevemaryes, much less, i thought we'd get random junk16:44
dtroyer_zzwell, warlock is still in there :)16:44
stevemarthings are settling in openstackclient, some of the smaller projects will get kicked out eventually from big tent16:44
dtroyer_zzyou think?16:45
stevemari think we're past the growth stage16:45
dtroyer_zzI said something like that the other day and got strange looks from people who I wish would understand where we are on the whole16:46
dtroyer_zzinternal $EMPLOYER folk16:46
stevemardtroyer_zz: it would also cost us nothing to setup individual targets for each service, like oslo.db does for each db: https://github.com/openstack/oslo.db/blob/master/setup.cfg#L22-L5216:47
stevemarwe would simply lay down the extra library16:48
stevemari guess the argument there is, if a user can do `pip install osc[orchestration]` why can't they do `pip install heatclient`16:48
dtroyer_zz:)  knowing that either is necessary is just a doc step, I know16:49
dtroyer_zzwhich is why I'd like to first consider a single meta-apckage16:49
dtroyer_zzhey, would it make sense to put the plugin command tests jobs into that metapacakge?  move all of the plugin-related bits there?16:50
dtroyer_zzie, the list of known plugins16:50
stevemardtroyer_zz: i needs more info on meta packages16:51
stevemarlink me?16:51
dtroyer_zzit was just in the conversation with timrc earlier16:51
dtroyer_zzI added it to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osc-ocata-summit16:51
dtroyer_zzthat would give the noob docs a single install package and get it all at once16:52
stevemarhow does a metapakage help those that install from pip?16:52
stevemarand not use apt or yum16:52
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dtroyer_zz'pip install openstackcleint'  has python-openstackclient and friends as a dep16:52
stevemarah16:52
stevemarlike what mordred did with keystoneauth and keystoneauth116:53
dtroyer_zzand the distro version works the same, implemented using their native tools16:53
stevemarright16:53
dtroyer_zzthis gets us (in DevStack terms) 'install_package openstackclient' everywhere16:53
stevemari'd love to hear how that suggestion would be received << timrc16:53
stevemardtroyer_zz: i do agree with the thinking that if we lay everything down from the get-go then more people will use it16:54
stevemardtroyer_zz: game starting in 15 minutes so i'll be AFK16:54
dtroyer_zzI don't think more people will use it, fewer people will wonder why the 'stack' commands are not there16:54
dtroyer_zzI'll put it on so I know when to hit you up for a review16:55
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stevemar:)16:55
stevemarwho needs enemies when you have friends like that16:56
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/osc-lib: Add release note for security bug 1630822  https://review.openstack.org/38375517:00
openstackbug 1630822 in OpenStack Security Advisory "Debug and -vv outputs user password in plain text" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163082217:00
stevemartimrc: thanks for jumping on irc and not asking for slack, i wanted to see dtroyer_zz looped in17:05
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mordredstevemar: what did I do?17:06
dtroyer_zzmordred: something ksa something package17:06
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mordredI think that was morgan17:07
mordredphew17:07
dtroyer_zzheh, auto-complete fail maybe?17:07
mordredas long as I didn't mess something _else_  :)17:07
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stevemarmordred: never :)17:08
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dtroyer_zzstevemar: during the national anthem(s) can you look at this?  https://review.openstack.org/38300017:09
dtroyer_zzI think that'll be the release point for osc-lib17:09
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stevemardtroyer_zz: also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382923/417:10
stevemardtroyer_zz: approved17:10
dtroyer_zzsure, I hadn't gotten to that repo yet …17:11
stevemardtroyer_zz: oh come on, 2 outs in 2 pitches...17:11
dtroyer_zzfast game so far17:11
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stevemardtroyer_zz: tuuuuulo17:36
stevemar2 run jack17:36
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/osc-lib: TrivilalFix: Using assertIsNone() instead of assertEqual(None)  https://review.openstack.org/37632317:39
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/osc-lib: Improve output of supported client versions  https://review.openstack.org/38300017:52
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/python-openstackclient: Improve output of supported API versions  https://review.openstack.org/38292317:54
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openstackgerritwhitekid proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: Fix router unset --route option  https://review.openstack.org/38385418:26
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mriedemrtheis: where does one report bugs against openstacksdk?18:39
mriedemi didn't find a project in launchpad18:39
rtheismriedem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-openstacksdk/+filebug18:40
mriedemah python-openstacksdk18:41
mriedemfooled me18:41
openstackgerritMilan Kováčik proposed openstack/api-wg: Specify time intervals based filtering queries  https://review.openstack.org/38386218:43
mriedemrtheis: thanks https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-openstacksdk/+bug/163148018:46
openstackLaunchpad bug 1631480 in OpenStack SDK "session endpoint lookup doesn't handle endpoints with paths" [Undecided,New]18:46
mriedemrtheis: btw o/18:47
rtheismriedem: yw o/18:47
briancurtinmriedem: does https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369499/ fix it for you?18:47
mriedemoooo i'll try18:48
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openstackgerritMilan Kováčik proposed openstack/api-wg: Specify time intervals based filtering queries  https://review.openstack.org/38386218:51
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openstackgerritAnkur proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: [SUPER WIP] l3-agent-list-hosting-router  https://review.openstack.org/38388619:17
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mriedembriancurtin: it didn't19:29
briancurtinmriedem: ok, well i’ll see if i can adjust it to your case19:30
mriedemlet me know if you need any debug info, it should be in the bug report though19:30
timrcstevemar: No problem.  It's completely silly to say "Hey let's have an upstream convo... in an IBM slack channel"19:32
timrcAnd twitter is not at all ideal IMO.19:32
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stevemartimrc: thanks for the understanding :)19:33
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ankur-gupta-f2rtheis_: ping question about how to go about implementing l3-agent-* router commands in OSC19:57
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ankur-gupta-f2there are 4 commands that hit either v2.0/routers/<id>/l3-agents or v2.0/agent/<id> etc...19:58
ankur-gupta-f2would I have to touch the sdk as well?19:59
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rtheis_ankur-gupta-f2: you would need to update the sdk first20:00
rtheis_Then these could be options on a list command20:00
rtheis_openstack agent list --router20:01
rtheis_openstack agent list --network20:01
rtheis_openstack router list --agent20:01
rtheis_openstack network list --agent20:01
rtheis_That's my initial thoughts but we could run this by dtroyer too20:02
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ankur-gupta-f2rtheis_: Okay will take a crack. but should the optional arg be more specific20:03
ankur-gupta-f2in this case --agent-l320:03
ankur-gupta-f2since there is also dhcp agent commands that need to be implemented20:03
rtheisI don't think so20:03
rtheisThe end user just wants to know which agents impact the specified router20:04
rtheisor network20:04
rtheisimplementation detail that the agent is L3, DCHP, etc20:04
ankur-gupta-f2rtheis: Will take a stab at it and add you and dtroyer_zz to the patchset for any further discussion20:06
rtheisok20:06
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ankur-gupta-f2rtheis: Thanks for the input. Good thing I asked first :)20:07
rtheisyw20:07
rtheisankur-gupta-f2: "agent" should be "network agent" in my examples above20:07
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openstackgerritDean Troyer proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: More 3.3.0 release notes  https://review.openstack.org/38393520:51
dtroyerstevemar: ^^^ if you can interrupt your celebrating.  We'll bump the 3.3.0 release to that20:52
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stevemardtroyer: thats another reason to celebrate :)21:32
stevemardtroyer: apparently we added --description to a lot of things21:35
dtroyerI had not realized how many21:39
openstackgerritSteve Martinelli proposed openstack/python-openstackclient: More 3.3.0 release notes  https://review.openstack.org/38393521:39
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