Tuesday, 2014-05-27

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mikalttx: you around, or trapped in that train of yours?07:50
mikalttx: I will assume that you're in transit. Talk later!08:18
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eglynnttx: I'll update you via email11:48
eglynnttx: (presoming your still en route ..)11:49
eglynn*presuming11:49
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SergeyLukjanovttx, /me here12:03
SergeyLukjanovttx, presuming you're away, so, I'll send you an update via email12:05
* dhellmann adds to ttx's email backlog12:19
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ttxmikal, eglynn, SergeyLukjanov, dhellmann; I'm here now13:04
dhellmannttx: ok, let me know if my email raises any questions/issues13:05
ttxCatching up now13:06
ttxdhellmann: https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/juno-1 shows 5 blueprints, https://launchpad.net/oslo.messaging/+milestone/juno-1 shows 313:10
ttxdhellmann: shall we un target the unprioritized ones on https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/juno-1 ? Or give it a bit more time ?13:10
SergeyLukjanovttx, I'm here and I can email you or chat here, what's works better for you?13:13
ttxSergeyLukjanov: let's chat now, let me startmeeting first13:13
SergeyLukjanovttx, okay13:13
ttx#startmeeting ptl_sync13:13
openstackMeeting started Tue May 27 13:13:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:13
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:13
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ptl_sync'13:13
ttx#topic Sahara13:13
ttxSergeyLukjanov: o/13:13
SergeyLukjanovttx, hey13:14
ttxLooking at https://launchpad.net/sahara/+milestone/juno-113:14
ttxYou have 2 undefined there -- you should set a priority for them, or remove the milestone target13:14
ttxotherwise are all those 17 relevant for J1 ? Or do you still need to review them all ?13:15
SergeyLukjanovttx, it's not fully completed, today is a bug triage day, so, it should looks better tomorrow13:15
ttx#link https://launchpad.net/sahara/+milestone/juno-113:15
SergeyLukjanovttx, at least several blueprints already going to j213:16
ttxOK13:16
SergeyLukjanovttx, oh, and we're decided to have a pilot of -specs13:16
ttxah? Starting when ?13:16
ttxJ1 or J2 ?13:16
SergeyLukjanovttx, starting from several huge blueprints and then decide to continue using it or not13:16
ttx#info Sahara will use a spec repository13:17
SergeyLukjanovttx, -specs repo creation is on review, so, we'll try it right after it'll be ready13:17
SergeyLukjanovso, I think it'll be near j113:17
ttxSergeyLukjanov: Does that mean we should no longer use blueprints as the entry point for feature submission ?13:18
SergeyLukjanovit'll be pilot to decide how it works for us13:18
ttxshould we autoclean blueprints that are targeted but not prioritized, like other spec-using projects ?13:18
SergeyLukjanovttx, not for j1 I think, we'd like to see how it's working, because many of us aren't sure that it'll work good13:18
ttxhmm, ok13:19
ttxAlso make sure you include blueprints to cover for what got done since icehouse13:19
SergeyLukjanovttx, we have no big problems with tracking incoming features, so, profit is about ensuring good description13:19
ttxi.e. early features that landed when juno dev was opened13:19
SergeyLukjanovttx, yup, I'll check it13:20
ttxOK thx13:20
ttxThat's all I had. Anythink you'd like to discuss at meeting today ?13:21
SergeyLukjanovttx, sorry that we aren't sure about moving to specs...13:21
SergeyLukjanovttx, I think no more news/questions from me13:21
ttxSergeyLukjanov: : a problem, we'll act as if you didn't yet :)13:22
ttxok, great13:22
* ttx bbls, back in a few13:22
SergeyLukjanovttx, thank you13:22
ttxback13:34
ttxdolphm: around?14:00
dolphmttx: o/14:00
ttx#topic Keystone14:00
ttx#link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/juno-114:00
* dolphm failed to shuffle blueprints around last week14:01
ttxSo... 2 undefined there, one unassigned14:01
ttxYou can prioritize or bump the two undefined14:01
ttxAnd find an assignee for the unassigned14:01
ttxDoes that reflect everything major that happened since juno dev opened end of March ?14:02
dolphmno - but i can't think of anything else that i expect to land in j1 either14:04
ttxwhat about strong-password-enforcement ? Keep it in (give it a prio ?)14:05
ttxguess that's a "no"14:06
dolphmttx: just untargeted that one :)14:06
ttxOK, looks good14:06
ttxJust keep an eye open on new last-minute submissions :)14:07
ttxAnything you'd like to discuss at meeting ?14:07
ttxlarge tokens ?14:07
ttxor is that one solved by forever supporting old-style tokens14:08
dolphmyou mean compressed tokens?14:08
dolphmoh yeah, we'll be supporting uncompressed tokens forever14:08
ttxyeah, I mean the thread we had about with keystone increasing payload on data-oriented APIs14:08
dolphmah, i don't know there's much more to discuss that wasn't mentioned in that thread (?)14:09
ttxseems like the most blatant fears were addressed in that thead14:09
ttxthRead*14:09
ttxyep14:09
ttxOK then14:09
ttxtalk to you later!14:10
dolphmwe'll continue working on narrowing the gap though14:10
dolphmworth noting in the agenda that we have our specs repo up?14:10
ttx#info Keystone spec repo is now up14:10
ttxwill now appear on the summary14:10
dolphm /salute14:10
ttxjgriffith: ready when you are14:10
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ttxdavid-lyle: o/14:33
david-lylettx: o/14:33
ttx#topic Horizon14:33
ttx#link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/juno-114:33
ttxThat's a pretty busy list14:33
ttxA few unassigned in there14:33
ttxA lot of undefined priorities too14:34
david-lyleplanning on working through those this week14:34
ttxdavid-lyle: did you go through the list yet and refine it to make reasonable targets for Juno-1 ?14:34
ttxJuno-1 in June 12 :)14:34
david-lylea fair number of those are carry-over from Icehouse14:34
ttxRight, so you might want to push them back to other milestones, now that they are created14:35
david-lyleI'll move several to Juno-214:35
ttxThe other trick is to make sure you reflect the significant things that were introduced since juno dev opened14:35
ttxSo you can retroactively create blueprints to cover them14:36
ttxWe'll review the resulting list next week14:37
ttxdavid-lyle: remember you are invited to the TC meeting today14:37
david-lyleyes14:37
ttxdavid-lyle: anything you'd like to add to the release/cross-project meeting agenda ?14:37
david-lylenot this week14:37
ttx#info List will be refined by next week14:39
ttxdavid-lyle: thx!14:39
david-lylettx: thank you14:39
ttxjgriffith: still not around ?14:39
ttxmestery: ready when you are14:40
mesteryttx: o/14:40
ttx#topic Neutron14:40
ttx#link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/juno-114:41
mesteryI went through and cleaned up the Neutron Juno-1 BPs this morning.14:41
mesteryWhat is in there is fairly reasonable, though some of it may slip over the next week or so.14:41
ttxmestery: how is the -specs effort going ?14:42
ttxare most of those targeted BPs backed with an approved spec yet ?14:42
mesteryVery well! The hardest part has been encouraging reviewer and submitter turnaround, but otherwise it's working out great.14:42
mesteryMost of them, though some are not. I have indicated to submitters those would be removed from Juno-1 this week if the spec isn't approved.14:43
ttxmestery: sounds good14:43
ttxmy autokick script still needs to be written, but in your case it would not autokick anything out of the milestone, since everything is properly prioritized14:43
ttxmestery: does the j1 list also reflect anything major that would have landed in Juno since the master branch was unfrozen early April ?14:44
mesteryttx: OK, and thanks! I'm going to work hard to keep this up to date and factual to the best of my knowledge. :)14:44
ttxmestery: thx, that helps :)14:44
mesteryttx: IT should, but I will take an action to verify that.14:44
ttxmestery: ok, great. Anythig you'd like to add to the agenda of the cross-projetc meeting for today ?14:45
mesteryttx: Nothing for today, no.14:45
* ttx is fine with a short meeting for today anyway :)14:45
ttxmestery: ok, great. talk to you later then14:45
* mestery agrees. :)14:45
mesteryThanks ttx!14:45
dhellmannttx: let's give it a week; the team only agreed to use the specs repo a day or two before the summit15:00
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ttxjgriffith: o/15:23
ttxI guess I lost him15:26
ttxnotmyname: ready when you are15:26
jgriffithttx: sorry15:34
ttx#topic Cinder15:35
ttxjgriffith: o/15:35
jgriffithttx: 0/15:35
jgriffithsorry about all that15:35
ttx#link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/juno-115:35
ttxThe milestone is still a bit of a mess a tthis point15:35
jgriffithttx: yes, I'll clean it up this morning15:35
ttxjgriffith: how is your use of specs coming up ?15:35
jgriffithttx: it's finally landed15:35
jgriffithttx: folks just started using it15:36
jgriffithttx: everything new I'm pointing them to it15:36
jgriffithhttps://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+cinder-specs,n,z15:36
jgriffithharlowj is my only victim thus far15:36
jgriffithbut I have some of my own to submit today as well15:36
ttxOK, so feel free to curate a list of j-1 blueprints to match15:37
ttxideally next week it should be clean15:37
ttxso that i could enable the autokick script15:37
ttxthat would reject random targeting automatically15:37
jgriffithttx: so you want me to have a spec for each item that's in arleady?15:37
ttxjgriffith: not really15:37
ttxjgriffith: anything you set a priority for will be golden15:37
ttxthen YOU decide if you want a spec or not for each of those prioritized BPs :)15:38
jgriffithttx: ahh15:38
jgriffithok15:38
ttxjgriffith: oh right, you might have missed last week15:38
jgriffithI may have been interpreting the use of specs incorrectly15:38
jgriffithttx: yes, I missed last week15:38
ttxjgriffith: the idea is to use the milestone page as a communication tool from PTL to release management and beyond15:38
ttxratherthan as an entry point for new features15:39
ttxsince that's what you'll use the specs repo for15:39
jgriffithttx: right, that's what I had though15:39
jgriffithttx: so step 1: submit a specs patch15:39
jgriffithttx: step 2: on approval target bp and prioritize15:39
jgriffithin LP15:39
jgriffithcorrect?15:39
ttxyes15:39
jgriffithcool, we're on the same page15:40
ttxYou can add extra BPs without a spec for corner cases15:40
jgriffiththe only confusing thing that I'd like to suggest a change for is the specs template15:40
jgriffithit has a BP entry/link15:40
jgriffithttx: ok, fair enough15:40
ttxI'm fine as long as you give them a priority, which is the proected field we'll use to distinguish between blessed things and random proposals15:40
jgriffithttx: yep, I will make sure that happens15:40
ttxthen I'll have a script automatically remove milestone target for unprioritized stuff15:40
ttxso that whatever you put there is not polluted15:41
jgriffithttx: NICE!15:41
* jgriffith will like that15:41
ttxwe work around LP limitations, but it should result in an.. easier time for all of us15:41
jgriffithsounds like it will work well15:41
ttxbasically you express what you think will get done on the milestone page15:41
ttxand the rest of the world consumes that15:41
jgriffithexcellent15:42
ttxand we don't use BPs anymore as the entry point, but use specs instead15:42
ttxthat's the process we'll follow for every -spec using project out there15:42
jgriffithYep, I'm with you... all sounds great t me15:42
jgriffiths/t me/to me/15:42
ttxso spec is for suggestion/approval, BPs is to track progress15:42
ttxand we'll just ignore untargeted stuff.15:43
jgriffithalways try to anyway :)15:43
ttxjgriffith: ok, the other trick with J1 is to catch the work that was merged since Juno opened15:43
ttxso feel free to retroactively add BPs to show for them15:43
ttx(if any)15:43
jgriffithttx: will do15:44
ttxjgriffith: anything you'd like to discuss at cross-project meeting today ?15:44
jgriffithttx: no thanks15:44
ttxcool, ttyl15:44
ttxnotmyname: still not around?15:44
jgriffithttx: thanks15:45
jgriffithcya15:45
ttxzaneb: ready when you are15:45
zanebo/15:45
ttx#topic Heat15:45
ttx#link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/juno-115:45
zanebbtw we decided at the meeting on Wednesday that we will move to a specs repo15:46
ttxOK, was about to ask15:46
ttxwill that be for J1, or mostly for J2 ?15:46
zaneb#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-05-21-20.00.html15:46
ttx#info Heat will use a spec repo as well15:46
zanebI think it will take a while to get migrated15:46
zanebI'm still not 100% clear on how the process is going to work15:47
ttxzaneb: OK, maybe use taditional milestone targeting for J1, then ?15:47
ttxtraditoinal*15:47
ttxarh15:47
zanebbut we want to follow the other projects while keeping it lightweight15:47
zanebthat makes sense to me15:47
zanebAIUI the repo doesn't really replace launchpad so much as replace the wiki as a place to discuss designs?15:48
ttxzaneb: did you follow the discussion about using the milestone page a bit more aggressively (no longer as the feature entry point) ?15:48
zanebno, I missed that I think15:48
ttxok, let me explain quick15:48
ttxThe main difference with before is that the first step is no longer "file a blueprint"15:49
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ttxthe entry point for new features becomes te -spec repo15:49
ttxwe still use blueprints to track implementation and target milestone15:49
ttxbut not that much to track spec approval15:49
ttxso tha tlets us use blueprints as a normalized tracking tool to keep track of what is likely to be in the milestone and therefore in the final release15:50
ttxsince we don't use BPs as an entry point anymore, we can use it as a clean slate for PTLs and other drivers to list stuff that they think will make it15:50
ttxthe issue being, anyone can set the target milestone so that clean slate becomes polluted very fast15:51
ttxso we use a trick15:51
ttxanything that doesn't have a priority set should be removed from hte target milestone automatically15:51
ttx(priority is set by the drivers group in LP)15:52
ttxthat lets us use the milestone pages as real communication tools15:52
ttxrather than as a workflow for people to suggest features15:52
ttx(we use -specs for tha tnow anyway)15:52
ttxzaneb: does that make sense ?15:52
zanebyep, makes sense15:53
ttx1- people file specs, they are discussed, some of them get approved15:53
ttx2- PTLs and drivers bbuild a list of stuff that will land soon in milestone pages15:53
ttxnote that I plan to write a tool to help create a blueprint corresponding to a spec15:53
ttxto facilitate that transitoin15:54
zanebwhat's the migration plan in the other direction?15:54
ttxsomething like "spec2bp my-spec juno-2"15:54
zanebi.e. bps that are already filed in lp15:54
ttxzaneb: there is no plan, so you might need to engage with authors there15:54
zanebok15:55
ttxyou can still reuse those BPs and just prioritize/target them15:55
ttxbut in some cases a spec wouldn't hurt15:55
ttxnote that I don't expect people to forget "file a BP" antime soon, so there will be some issues15:55
zanebok, that makes sense15:55
ttxmy goal is to make sure we don't do everything twice, once in -specs and once in BPs15:56
ttxreduce friction to make the tools as integrated as they can be at this point15:56
ttxanyway15:56
ttxfor J1 you should probably do it old style15:57
ttxzaneb: you should curate that J1 list to match what was done in J1 so far, what is likely to be done for J1, and push back the rest15:57
ttxWhatever you keep in the list, you should have assignees and priorities15:57
ttxthe trick being, without the autokick script enabled, people will keep adding stuff there ;)15:57
ttxzaneb: questions?15:58
zanebyeah, that will be unavoidable15:58
ttxzaneb: I expect the new process to be much less pain15:58
ttxzaneb: at leas tfor us both15:58
zanebI hope so :)15:59
zanebI am keen to make the PTL's job smaller ;)15:59
ttxzaneb: in previous cycles we would take a lot of time fixing that list15:59
ttxat least with the autokick enabled it doesn't degrade all by itself15:59
ttxit shall stay how you write it :)15:59
ttxzaneb: anything you'd like to add to today's meeting agenda ?16:00
zanebtbh, except to the extent that other openstack projects are depending on a blueprint, I don't really care what milestone they land in16:00
ttxzaneb: i's still an important information to try to communicate outside of the project16:00
ttxzaneb: some downstream stakeholders do not just follow releases16:00
ttxand appreciate a slightly more educated guess16:01
ttxzaneb: but then it's far from being exact16:01
ttxmarkwash: around ?16:01
zanebyes, I think the circumstances vary from program to program16:01
ttxzaneb: all set ?16:01
markwashttx: hello16:01
zanebyep :)16:01
ttxzaneb: ok, ttyl16:01
ttx#topic Glance16:01
ttxmarkwash: hola!16:02
ttxmarkwash: how is your spec effort going so far ?16:02
ttx#link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/juno-116:02
ttxmilestone page looks a bit dirty still. Good thing my autokick script is not ready yet :)16:03
markwashneeding to land https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94464/16:03
ttxmarkwash: so you will probably handle J1 targeting the old way ?16:03
markwashttx: hmm, unfortunately it seems like we might need to?16:04
markwashbut we'll probably have some specs that show up as well16:04
ttxOK, so try to clean up the list to come up with assigned, prioritized stuff that may actually make it16:04
ttxalso if there was anything significant landed since Juno was oened, maybe retroactively create a BP to cover for it16:05
ttxopened*16:05
markwashkk16:05
ttxThen when you're ready to switch, make the -spec proposal the feature entry point16:06
ttxand deprectae use of LP for that purpose16:06
ttxhopefully I shall have my conversion and autokick script done soon16:06
markwashokay16:06
ttxmarkwash: think you'll have the list refined by next week ?16:07
markwashis there a way to protect something from autokicking? just adding a spec entry for it?16:07
ttx(J1 is June 12 fwiw)16:07
ttxmarkwash: no, just set a priority for it16:07
markwashgotcha16:07
ttxthe script won't look at the spec at all16:07
ttxso you're free to add stuff withut a spec, as long as it's prioritized, it's golden16:07
markwashokay cool, so we could turn on the autokick script as soon as we have specs turned on and the current entries prioritized16:08
ttxwe just work around the fact that milestone targeting is a free-for-all field in LP16:08
ttxmarkwash: exactly16:08
markwashas for prioritized by next week, seems possible16:08
markwashso yes16:08
ttx#info Glance shall have a J1 plan by next week16:08
markwash:-)16:09
ttxok great16:09
ttxanything you'd like to add to meeting agenda for today ?16:09
markwashnope16:09
* ttx expects that the new process will result in less BP maintenance pain16:10
ttxor at least that's my goal16:10
ttxmarkwash: ok thx! ttyl16:10
ttxSlickNik: ready when you are16:10
ttxnotmyname: if you are around, same16:10
SlickNikttx: here now16:15
ttx#topic Trove16:16
ttxSlickNik: o/16:16
SlickNiko/16:16
ttx#link https://launchpad.net/trove/+milestone/juno-116:16
ttxLooks pretty clean. Only one is unassigned16:17
ttxDoes that reflect what you think might make J1 ?16:17
SlickNikYes, I've been working on regular triage to keep it up-to-date. :)16:17
ttxdoes that include the work that was merged since Juno opened ?16:17
SlickNikYes, it does.16:17
ttxok, good16:17
SlickNikWill follow up on status for that 1 bp that was unassigned.16:18
ttx#info J1 plans are up and current16:18
ttxOK, I guess we can close this one fast then16:18
SlickNikThere's a couple of BPs that I don't think will make J1.16:18
ttxAnything you'd like to discuss at meeting later ?16:18
SlickNikI'll talk to the owners to confirm, and move them out.16:19
ttxsure, just defer them to J216:19
SlickNikYup, will do that.16:19
ttxand try to keep the implementation status in sync with current state16:19
ttx(assignees can help by updating that themselves)16:19
SlickNikYes, will do. (And will remind assignees to do it themselves)16:20
ttxOK then, anything else ?16:20
SlickNikI didn't really have anything special for the meeting later.16:20
ttxgood good16:20
SlickNikNope, pretty simple this week. Thanks!16:20
ttxtalk to you later then!16:20
SlickNikThanks. Later!16:20
ttxnotmyname: last call to be included in this weeks notes16:21
ttx#endmeeting16:22
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 27 16:22:19 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:22
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-05-27-13.13.html16:22
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-05-27-13.13.txt16:22
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-05-27-13.13.log.html16:22
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notmynamettx: sorry I missed it. I had a dr. appointment for my shoulder this morning and got distracted and didn't let you know. sorry17:23
notmynamettx: nothing significantly different than last week AFAIK anyway17:24
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ttxnotmyname: ok, no worry19:09
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