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| openstackgerrit | wu.shiming proposed openstack/oslo.cache master: Replace deprecated UPPER_CONSTRAINTS_FILE variable https://review.opendev.org/762298 | 07:09 |
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| sean-k-mooney | just confiming something but the etcd backend driver for oslo.config was never actully implemented in the end right. we have the remote file one and env vars backend as alternitive to local files but etcd is not support | 14:07 |
| sean-k-mooney | also we dropped zeromq support a while ago right | 14:26 |
| sean-k-mooney | ya we did https://review.opendev.org/#/c/596882/ | 14:28 |
| sean-k-mooney | in stien | 14:28 |
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| bnemec | sean-k-mooney: Correct. Now that we have the driver framework an etcd backend could probably be implemented, but it hasn't been yet. | 15:55 |
| sean-k-mooney | ya i was taking some time this moring to look at a resarch idea i had a while ago | 15:57 |
| sean-k-mooney | creatign a monolithc since openstack process kind of like what k3s does | 15:58 |
| sean-k-mooney | the orginal idea for single node was to sue sqlite for the db and the fake in memroy driver for messaging | 15:58 |
| sean-k-mooney | but i was wondering if i could sue rqlite (raft + sqlite) for the db with etcd for cache and or messageing | 15:59 |
| sean-k-mooney | i was askign about zmq basically to see if that coudl be used | 16:00 |
| sean-k-mooney | the idea overall is to have as few depencies as possibel but still have a working openstack | 16:00 |
| sean-k-mooney | etcd for oslo config was just a case of if i have etcd there what else could i use if for to jsutify it as a depency | 16:01 |
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| bnemec | sean-k-mooney: Yeah, I don't think we have etcd support for anything but tooz, and you wouldn't need distributed locks in a single node deployment. | 18:06 |
| bnemec | It could be done of course, they're both driver-based libraries, but there's nothing available today. | 18:06 |
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| sean-k-mooney | bnemec: i would not need etcd in singel node at all. i was thinking of usign it for oslo.cache instead of memcache and implementing an etcd oslo messaging driver which is just the fake driver but using etcd insted of dicts | 19:32 |
| sean-k-mooney | bnemec: i was also thinking fo doing the same with tempory tables in sqlight | 19:33 |
| sean-k-mooney | basiclly i was trying to see if it was possibel to run everythign without insalling other services but a distibuted db and message queue seam to be the minum deps | 19:34 |
| bnemec | Ironic used JSON RPC for single node installs. | 19:34 |
| bnemec | I don't think it's an oslo.messaging plugin though. | 19:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | for singel node a dictionary cache + fake messaging dirver + sqlight is all that is needed | 19:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | all of those are supported already in the relevent oslo prjects | 19:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | its what we do in the functional tests in nova at least | 19:35 |
| JayF | Not just for single node installs; it's the default to use JSON RPC now I believe in all installations. | 19:36 |
| bnemec | Oh, maybe I'm confused. You're not necessarily looking at the single node use case, that was just what prompted the initial investigation? | 19:36 |
| JayF | at a minimum; it works in 'normal' Ironic deployments | 19:37 |
| bnemec | You're just looking to fold the rabbit and memcached traffic into etcd. | 19:37 |
| sean-k-mooney | bnemec: ya it an idea of what is the lights way to install a working openstack that could be multinode | 19:37 |
| sean-k-mooney | *lightest | 19:37 |
| sean-k-mooney | for singel node it can be very light for multinode i was trying to figure out what the minimal next deps would be | 19:38 |
| bnemec | Okay, got it. | 19:38 |
| bnemec | The only thing I will say is that with messaging drivers, here be dragons. ;-) | 19:38 |
| sean-k-mooney | so rqlight which is raft + sqlight for db and hten somethign for messaging | 19:38 |
| sean-k-mooney | bnemec: yep | 19:39 |
| bnemec | It's entirely possible you'll find out that etcd works great for RPC but terrible for notifications (or vice versa). | 19:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | ya | 19:39 |
| bnemec | I think that's part of why zmq went away. | 19:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | didnt zmq only support one of those properly | 19:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | testing was the oter reason | 19:40 |
| sean-k-mooney | but ya what reignited this ideay was reading about k3s | 19:40 |
| sean-k-mooney | https://k3s.io/ | 19:40 |
| bnemec | Pretty much. IIRC there was a hacked together system that allowed it to do RPC, but it was a poor fit for the use case so it wasn't good. | 19:40 |
| bnemec | And at one point it flat out broke because we added some functionality to the other drivers that the zmq driver never got, so it became unusable for modern OpenStack deployments. | 19:41 |
| sean-k-mooney | ya | 19:41 |
| sean-k-mooney | im not sure how complete the fake driver is | 19:41 |
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| sean-k-mooney | but it runs nova well enogh for our functional tests | 19:41 |
| bnemec | The fake driver should be feature complete since it's intended to provide a sane way to do messaging testing. | 19:42 |
| bnemec | If it's not I would consider that a bug. | 19:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | ya so for singel node it would be valid | 19:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | maybe not production reday | 19:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | but useable | 19:43 |
| sean-k-mooney | at least at small scale | 19:43 |
| bnemec | I think the main thing is that it's limited to single node because it's an in-memory driver. | 19:44 |
| sean-k-mooney | yep | 19:44 |
| bnemec | It probably performs pretty well since there's no transport overhead. :-) | 19:44 |
| sean-k-mooney | so i was going to just swap out the dicts with etcd and see if that worked | 19:44 |
| sean-k-mooney | if i go a simple singel node working | 19:45 |
| sean-k-mooney | but im not sure if im going to run with this or not | 19:45 |
| sean-k-mooney | i jsut wanted to see what was possible quickly | 19:45 |
| sean-k-mooney | we have talked about having a singel agent on a host in the past but we have never really tried | 19:46 |
| sean-k-mooney | i was kind of wondering would it be possible to do without modifing the existing projects. | 19:47 |
| sean-k-mooney | just import them and start the relevnet oslo services for them with the right config | 19:47 |
| sean-k-mooney | bnemec: anyway thanks. if i do play with this and get anything workin ill let ye know | 19:49 |
| bnemec | Sounds good. | 19:50 |
| sean-k-mooney | oh one last question does oslo messaging support plugins for the dirvers via stevador or is it in tree only | 19:51 |
| sean-k-mooney | i dont really plann on proposing on in tree for an experiment but just wonderin gif i woudl create a fork and add it or just a plugin | 19:51 |
| sean-k-mooney | if i get that far | 19:51 |
| sean-k-mooney | looks like there are entry points https://github.com/openstack/oslo.messaging/blob/master/setup.cfg#L41-L52 | 19:53 |
| sean-k-mooney | it uses stevador https://github.com/openstack/oslo.messaging/blob/e44c9883066d9b2d081a594b97aac3d598d491c9/oslo_messaging/transport.py#L205-L209 | 19:59 |
| sean-k-mooney | so if i want to ply with this i can just do it in my own repo cool | 19:59 |
| sean-k-mooney | JayF: i assume that is what ironic did for the json rpc one? | 20:00 |
| sean-k-mooney | look like no neithr ironic or ironic lib provide a driver via stevadore | 20:13 |
| sean-k-mooney | for json rpvc | 20:14 |
| sean-k-mooney | ah you have your own server https://github.com/openstack/ironic/blob/0e65f0134d1b068cac7b0ea5b6f35ed8726dda25/ironic/common/json_rpc/server.py | 20:14 |
| sean-k-mooney | and client | 20:15 |
| sean-k-mooney | so no oslo when usign that | 20:15 |
| JayF | sean-k-mooney: I guess; I'm not an expert in it really. I'm sure nobody would object to our pattern being oslo-ified. | 20:32 |
| sean-k-mooney | im not sure how well it would map | 20:33 |
| JayF | I'm just excited about the idea of not having to run rabbitmq as a deployer :D | 20:34 |
| sean-k-mooney | im just suprise that you didnt just add it as a plugin but i gues syou still would have needed a server implemenation | 20:34 |
| sean-k-mooney | JayF: ya that was what i was trying to avoid too | 20:34 |
| sean-k-mooney | it does work to a certin scale | 20:34 |
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| sean-k-mooney | i think there was a propsal for a nats driver at some point too | 20:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | but there is a cost to drivers too | 20:35 |
| JayF | I'm unfamiliar with nats | 20:35 |
| JayF | pulsar has been mentioned here at a basic "I wish we could use pulsar instead" platitude | 20:36 |
| JayF | in general I've worked almost my entire career at places that ran rabbitmq, and I'm not sure I've ever been like "Rabbitmq is the most stable, awesome part of the environment. I hope it never goes away" :D | 20:37 |
| sean-k-mooney | nats is one of the cloud native compute foundation projects | 20:37 |
| sean-k-mooney | https://nats.io/ | 20:37 |
| JayF | cncf is k8s, right? | 20:37 |
| sean-k-mooney | not really | 20:38 |
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| sean-k-mooney | partly but they are different | 20:38 |
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| JayF | CNCF:K8s::OpenInfraFoundation:OpenStack -ish | 20:38 |
| sean-k-mooney | https://www.cncf.io/projects/ | 20:38 |
| JayF | OK, yeah, I did oversimplify but it's what I thought | 20:39 |
| JayF | everyone has a foundation now :P | 20:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | it a much of cloud adjacent project losly under the linux foundation banner in ther eonw cncf foundation | 20:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | /much/bunch | 20:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | so like it has rook which si a kubernets native operator framework dirven way to deploy ceph in k8s | 20:40 |
| sean-k-mooney | but ceph isnt a cncf proejct | 20:40 |
| sean-k-mooney | so some of what they have are integration of existing tech with k8s | 20:41 |
| sean-k-mooney | some of it is new tech written likely in go assumign a cloud plathform will be what the are deployed on or will help build | 20:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | JayF: i think nat orginally started as an anser to aws's messaging bus | 20:43 |
| sean-k-mooney | it mainly for iot but it could be used for anything really | 20:43 |
| JayF | I worked a lot with etcd in the early coreos days, but in general am not an expert on messagings ystems | 20:43 |
| sean-k-mooney | then you know a lot more then me :P | 20:44 |
| JayF | etcd 1 API was basically | 20:44 |
| JayF | set a value at a path | 20:44 |
| JayF | get a value at a path | 20:44 |
| sean-k-mooney | the added triggers and a few other things since right | 20:44 |
| JayF | and that is about it :) | 20:44 |
| JayF | yeah, I believe so, but that's how dusty my experience is | 20:45 |
| sean-k-mooney | ya i really havent looked at it much | 20:45 |
| sean-k-mooney | i was thinking of modeling excanages and intermdiate topics as folders and queue as paths | 20:48 |
| sean-k-mooney | then you could use the watch stream https://etcd.io/docs/v3.3.12/learning/api/#watch-streams many to monitor for change to topics | 20:48 |
| sean-k-mooney | i realy had not got to far with that | 20:48 |
| sean-k-mooney | btu the fake driver basically used lists and dicts so i was like that should be mappable to etcd | 20:49 |
| sean-k-mooney | it might be slow or fast who knows but it likely would be functional | 20:50 |
| sean-k-mooney | but ya the fact it now supprot events and watching for it made me think maybe notifcations could work too | 20:50 |
| sean-k-mooney | anyway time to go un brick my pinebook pro. i may have copied the root file system to an ssd using btrfs instead of ext4 and forgot to check if the initramfs had the right modules | 20:55 |
| sean-k-mooney | im hoping that is the problem anyway or this could be interesting to fix... | 20:56 |
| JayF | Good luck! If you manage to de-rabbitify the world, I'll buy you a cold beverage whenever the world (and conferences) get back to normal | 20:57 |
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