Thursday, 2014-12-18

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openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/oslo.messaging: Add a thread + futures executor based executor  https://review.openstack.org/7091400:10
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openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Remove less than useful action_engine __str__  https://review.openstack.org/14262500:49
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openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Exception and exception message cleanup (WIP)  https://review.openstack.org/13893501:16
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openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Exception and exception message cleanup part 1  https://review.openstack.org/13893501:21
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Exception and exception message cleanup (WIP)  https://review.openstack.org/13893501:24
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/oslo.db: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/14263801:27
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/taskflow: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/14264001:28
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openstackgerritzhangjl proposed openstack/oslo.messaging: Remove unused topic which cause service crash  https://review.openstack.org/14265102:40
openstackgerritDavanum Srinivas (dims) proposed openstack/oslo.log: Move files out of the namespace package  https://review.openstack.org/13462202:43
openstackgerritDavanum Srinivas (dims) proposed openstack/oslo.log: Switch to oslo.context  https://review.openstack.org/14014702:44
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Exception and exception message cleanup (WIP)  https://review.openstack.org/13893502:45
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openstackgerritDavanum Srinivas (dims) proposed openstack/oslo.log: Enhance the README a bit  https://review.openstack.org/14265403:19
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openstackgerritDavanum Srinivas (dims) proposed openstack/oslo.log: Switch context module to oslo_context  https://review.openstack.org/14265603:36
openstackgerritSachi King proposed openstack/oslo-specs: graduate-oslo-service  https://review.openstack.org/14265903:42
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openstackgerritChangBo Guo(gcb) proposed openstack/oslo.utils: Add 'secret_uuid' in _SANITIZE_KEYS for strutils  https://review.openstack.org/14270409:03
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dulekHi guys, why does oslo.serialization.jsonutils.dumps(object) return "ValueError: Circular reference detected"?09:59
dulekIsn't it supposed to allow simple object serialization?10:00
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dulekOkay, I've found out that this is working only for old-style-classes. Is it expected?10:03
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openstackgerritCédric de Saint Martin proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Check for git installation before using git.  https://review.openstack.org/14273811:56
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openstackgerritChangBo Guo(gcb) proposed openstack/oslo-incubator: Report: Add basic processes section  https://review.openstack.org/7879312:50
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sigmavirus24jogo: you're probably more familiar than I am, but do entry points have any kind of metadata associated with them? I'm wondering if we could store the off-by-default information there for flake8 to find14:55
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flaper87dhellmann: hey, re that py33 gate issue. is a pbr release with that fix planned?15:21
flaper87I wonder if we should move one with this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142812/15:21
flaper87actually, I guess I'll move on with that and then rollback15:22
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dims_flaper87: per infra, there's a pbr with fix out already, don't have to remove sphinx15:31
flaper87ok15:32
bnemecdulek: No, I'm pretty sure that should work with new-style classes too.  Usually when I've seen that error it's because something in the class being serialized is tripping up jsonutils.15:44
bnemecOff the top of my head I don't remember what sorts of things that would be though.15:44
dulekbnmenec: Okay, but I'm serializing bare Python's object. There's nothing more basic.15:45
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dulekbnemec: Try this snippet yourself: http://paste.openstack.org/show/152781/15:52
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bnemecdulek: Okay, apparently that's not expected to work after all: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3768895/python-how-to-make-a-class-json-serializable16:02
* bnemec needs to write more code using the oslo libs apparently :-)16:02
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dulekYeah, I've lookend into the code also.16:06
dulekOslo states: " Handy for JSON serialization. We can optionally handle instances,"16:06
dulekBut option is false as default and does only support old-style-objects16:07
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dulekI've took other approach to my problem. :)16:07
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openstackgerritMehdi Abaakouk proposed openstack/oslo.messaging: Move each drivers options into its own group  https://review.openstack.org/12003816:13
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openstackgerritClark Boylan proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Write and read more complex git sha info  https://review.openstack.org/14166616:46
openstackgerritClark Boylan proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Only import sphinx during hook processing  https://review.openstack.org/14284016:46
openstackgerritClark Boylan proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Properly check for git before getting git dir  https://review.openstack.org/14284116:46
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dhellmannflaper87: fungi was going to do a release last night; I'm just coming online so I don't know if it happened yet17:03
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flaper87dhellmann: FWIW, whatever it is that fungi did, it worked17:07
flaper87:P17:07
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dhellmannflaper87: cool :-)17:17
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/tooz: Add driver autogenerated docs  https://review.openstack.org/14026317:48
openstackgerritMerged openstack-dev/hacking: Remove Git commit message checks  https://review.openstack.org/14258517:53
openstackgerritMerged openstack-dev/hacking: Remove complex import rules  https://review.openstack.org/14258617:57
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sigmavirus24jogo: so best API I can think of for flake8 supporting optional/off-by-default extensions is defining an attribute on whatever we load from the entry-point18:07
sigmavirus24we would do something like getattr(loaded_ep, 'off_by_default', False)18:07
sigmavirus24then a decorator could modify functions to just add the attribute to be True18:08
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sigmavirus24jogo: if you're on the code-quality mailing list, I'm going to float the idea there first with a PR on flake8 to demonstrate how this would work18:09
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jogosigmavirus24: cool, I am on that ML18:50
jogosdague: ^ FYI18:50
jogosigmavirus24: thanks18:50
sigmavirus24cool, let me throw together a PR then and propose it to the list to see if people have better ideas =P18:50
jogosounds like a solid plan18:50
sigmavirus24jogo: any time. it wasn't a feature I had considered but I can see it being used18:51
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jogosigmavirus24: yeah when starting out hacking we explicitly wanted everything on by default but as things have progressed this makes more sense to me now18:52
sigmavirus24I'm definitely going to take advantage of it I think with flake8-docstrings18:53
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harlowjadhellmann do u know if the pbr issue is all fixed? should i start doing rechecks, or maybe wait?18:58
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harlowjaseems like it; tooz stuff not failing (which also has py34/py33 checks)19:09
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openstackgerritJeremy Stanley proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Use unsafe OpenPGP keys for testing  https://review.openstack.org/14288419:22
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/tooz: Sync requirements to global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/14092119:36
openstackgerritMerged openstack/tooz: tests: use scenarios attributes for timeout capability  https://review.openstack.org/13837819:36
dims__harlowja: y, i verified with infra folks, safe to recheck19:37
harlowjawoot19:37
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dims__harlowja: if you need a 2nd +2 from the bunch of reviews yday let me know which ones19:38
harlowjai do need a look over of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135146/ :)19:38
harlowjabut that one might take a while, there's a lot of comments; maybe dhellmann can also look at (hopefully the comments help)19:39
harlowjabig comment on 'PatternCompiler' there19:39
harlowjamaybe even easier to read @ http://docs-draft.openstack.org/46/135146/20/check/gate-taskflow-docs/dd1802c/doc/build/html/engines.html#taskflow.engines.action_engine.compiler.PatternCompiler19:39
harlowjait involves sort of the key thing taskflow does to patterns to allow them to run in parallel19:40
harlowja*or one of the key things, ha19:40
harlowjaconverting patterns into graphs; then running can just search on that graph for things to do19:40
dims__ack. will try to do that in a little bit19:41
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harlowjathx much19:41
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harlowjadhellmann dims__ another one; just more of a question; for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141961/ should we wait until ironic has flushed out there usage more, maybe after kilo ?19:48
harlowjahttps://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/ironic+branch:master+topic:states,n,z is still going through the pipeline (although the initial copy of that code merged)19:49
harlowjalet it incubate in ironic for a little?19:49
harlowja* https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:merged+project:openstack/ironic+branch:master+topic:states,n,z (the merged ones)19:49
dhellmannharlowja: I think it's fixed, but you may want to ask fungi and clarkb to be safe19:50
dhellmanndims__, harlowja: oh, sounds like you've checked (I'm catching up on backlog)19:50
harlowja:)19:50
dims__dhellmann: y, recheck worked fine on a bunch of oslo.log reviews19:51
dhellmannharlowja: incubating in ironic seems like a good plan, if it's going to be easier to modify it there19:51
dhellmanndims__: cool, thanks19:51
harlowjadhellmann ya; i think they aren't all sure where there state machine will go yet (or i think that is the feeling still)19:51
harlowjaso maybe wait on adoption for a little19:52
harlowjai'm unsure how radically they are going to change ironic, lol19:52
dims__harlowja: got as far as "Relinking decomposed a -> decomposed d", got lost after that19:53
dims__harlowja: 3 nodes should be b, c, d (in that order?)19:53
harlowjadims__ woot, thats pretty far19:53
dims__the Edges after that, i don't get it19:54
dims__(c->d and b->c). how's that happen?19:55
dims__almost expected (a->d and b->c)19:55
harlowjaso 'a' is just a container in a way (pattern that defines its contents must be ran in linear order)19:56
harlowjathe 'flow' thing there is just that kind of container19:56
harlowjait contains b, c (mandating b must run before c)19:56
harlowjaso thats how u get b -> c19:57
dims__y i get that19:57
dims__c->d?19:57
harlowjasoo19:57
harlowjaf(a(b, c), d)19:57
harlowjaso lets expand that19:57
harlowjaf(b->c, d)19:57
harlowjaf itself is a container saying its contents must run in linear order19:58
harlowjaso perform same expansion19:58
harlowjab->c->d19:58
dims__both b and c should be before d19:58
harlowjaso f decomposes its members, which then decomposes 'a' (which gets back b->c graph)19:58
dims__and b is before c19:58
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harlowjayup19:59
harlowjawhich is what 'Decomposed f into' should show19:59
harlowjaEdges: 219:59
harlowjac -> d ({'invariant': True})19:59
harlowja      b -> c ({'invariant': True})19:59
harlowjab -> c -> d19:59
dims__got it i think20:00
dims__so does the order in the list of nodes matter?20:00
harlowjathe b->c->d order?20:00
dims__y20:00
harlowjaya, it determines later runtime ordering20:00
dims__you have c then b and then d20:01
harlowjaoh20:01
harlowjathat order20:01
harlowjaNodes: 320:01
harlowja      - c20:01
harlowja      - b20:01
harlowja      - d20:01
harlowjathat one?20:01
dims__y20:01
harlowjanah, thats just a listing, no order; someday that might be better, but networkx keeps them unordered (so the edges are the real ordering)20:01
jogoharlowja: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138607/20:01
dims__harlowja: thanks20:02
harlowjanp; its slightly confusing i know, hopefully more understandable?20:02
harlowja* https://github.com/networkx/networkx/pull/1268 might help here20:02
harlowjabut otherwise that node list is just mostly random, edges (and the path through those is the ordering that matters)20:02
openstackgerritMerged openstack/tooz: Update links + python version supported  https://review.openstack.org/14054120:03
harlowjajogo ya, u not like my dual-running migration straategy ;)20:03
harlowjarun both legacy and tooz one, for a period of time, then drop legacy?20:03
harlowjaor just run for a whole release, idk20:03
harlowjadims__ if i can update the docs there, let me know, anything to help out :)20:05
jogoharlowja: no, that isn't a migration plan20:05
jogoharlowja: err if you can run both concurrently it is though20:05
dims__harlowja: no, this is great20:05
harlowjajogo ya, that was my thought, thought i put that under 'The existing data' with a 'MultiServiceGroupDriver' thingy/idea20:06
harlowjamaybe needs more jogo ?20:06
harlowjawhich would be that concurrently running part20:07
jogoharlowja: ahh less code more words20:07
harlowjaeck, lol20:07
harlowjamore code, less words20:07
harlowjalol20:07
jogoharlowja: but yeah that sounds like a solid plan to me20:07
harlowjaya, u could say run them both for a whole release instead of time-boxing it, but idk20:08
jogoharlowja: I want to see you explicitly talk about migration plan, which it seems you don't20:08
jogoharlowja: something like this:20:08
harlowjaYEOLDE MIGRATION PLAN20:08
harlowjalol20:08
jogoyup20:08
harlowjahehe, ok20:08
jogoaround line 38320:08
harlowjafair enough20:09
jogoyou talk about it but don't call out what the why there20:09
harlowjakk20:09
jogoharlowja: once you make that a little more explicit you have my +220:09
harlowjacools20:10
harlowjathx jogo20:10
harlowjajd__ will be happy then20:10
harlowjainstead of sad20:10
jogoservicegroup has always been really dumb20:10
harlowjaha20:10
harlowjayaaaa20:10
harlowjajogo i'm still not sure how to get rid of the db.py one...20:10
jogoand this is a good way out of that issue, nova does less and gets more20:10
harlowjaits tightly connected in; may require a long-term strategy20:11
jogoharlowja: what do you mean?20:11
harlowjawell the db.py one is coupled to nova's services table20:11
harlowjawhich means tooz can't take over that one :-/20:11
harlowjasince that table is internal to nova20:11
harlowjaand used for various things i believe (jay i thnk knows more of the history than me)20:12
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jogoahh right, but those columns in the table should only be accessed via the service group API right?20:12
jogoat least in theory20:12
harlowjahttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/138607/5/specs/kilo/service-group-using-tooz.rst jay left an interesting comment20:12
harlowja'So.. here's the problem with this. Even if you use a different non-db driver for the servicegroups in Nova, *there is still a service record created in the services table*. The reason is because of the (stupid) relationship between the services table and the compute_nodes table. This oddity is being addressed with the detach-service-from-compute-node blueprint which is almost entirely completed. So, bottom line... don't assume20:13
harlowja that just because the DB driver isn't configured that the services table will be empty, because it won't. :)'20:13
harlowjai guess thats being addressed (?)20:13
jogoyeah it is20:13
jogothere is another spec for that, so that should sort itself out :)20:14
harlowjakk20:14
harlowjaya, so thats why i erred on the side of; ok we'll deprecate that one later, maybe next release or something, ha20:14
harlowjaanyways; i'll update it today hoepfully20:16
jogoharlowja: yeah I think the goal of this spec should  be to make tooz servicegroup the way forward and how we add other backends20:17
jogoleaving a few other servicegroup backends for a cycle or two isn't a big deal20:17
harlowjacools20:17
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Add a 'can_be_registered' method that checks before notifying  https://review.openstack.org/14195520:23
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openstackgerritJeremy Stanley proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Use unsafe OpenPGP keys for testing  https://review.openstack.org/14288420:33
harlowjajd__ do u want to somehow remove http://tooz.readthedocs.org/ (or put link to new home?)20:35
jd__harlowja: I did a redirect on RTFD20:35
jd__but does not seem to work20:35
harlowjaah20:35
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harlowjahmm20:35
harlowjamaybe u should put redirect on RTD instead?20:36
harlowjalol20:36
jd__actually I see the form change20:36
jd__so now it does not imply you can do an external redirect20:36
jd__dunnow what to do? delete?20:37
harlowjahmmms20:37
harlowjai haven't moved things off of that, so not sure either :-/20:37
harlowjai'd be ok with delete, but idk; anyone else have ideas?20:37
jd__dhellmann maybe20:37
jd__(always ask the boss)20:38
* dhellmann reads scrollback20:38
harlowjado readthedocs people have irc?20:38
dhellmannoh, for rtfd20:38
harlowjaoh jd__ u can tweet to them20:38
harlowjahttps://twitter.com/readthedocs20:38
dhellmannI can't decided whether to set up a dummy project on github with a file that points to the new location or just delete20:38
dhellmannlinks on the internet break all the time, but I don't know how the pagerank for docs.openstack.org looks20:39
harlowjajd__ there is a #readthedocs channel with people in it20:39
harlowjamaybe they know20:39
harlowjamaybe they can hook u up20:39
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harlowjaseems somewhat active (logs @ https://botbot.me/freenode/readthedocs/ )20:40
jd__or maybe it's a channel with people fond of reading documentation and that's not related to that website20:40
jd__that sounds like a dangerous place to hang out20:40
harlowja'Topic is http://readthedocs.org ' ;)20:40
harlowjabut ya, sounds dangerous otherwise, lol20:41
jd__google tooz documentation returns RTFD and then docs.o.o20:42
jd__pretty sure it's safe to delete20:42
harlowjawhats google20:42
harlowjalol20:42
jd__harlowja: s/google/yahoo/20:42
jd__:D20:42
harlowjaah, better20:42
harlowjas/yahoo/bing/20:42
harlowjabetter20:42
harlowjalol20:42
jd__don't you have a MITM thing doing that s///for your at your HQ or something? tss20:42
jd__:)20:42
harlowjahow u know about the bot that does s/// ?20:43
harlowjalol20:43
harlowjahaha20:43
jd__:-)20:43
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dhellmannjd__: cool, we can always throw together a replacement page if there are complaints20:44
openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Properly handle and skip empty intermediary flows  https://review.openstack.org/13514620:45
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harlowja_i for one will be lost without that page; what am i supposed to use for my homepage?20:45
jd__harlowja_: Yahoo?20:46
harlowja_h20:46
harlowja_oh20:46
harlowja_if i must, ha20:46
jd__project deleted20:48
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Remove less than useful action_engine __str__  https://review.openstack.org/14262520:51
harlowja_alright, gonna get out 0.6 today; once zuul pipeline goes through, yippe20:52
harlowja_ha20:52
harlowja_https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141939/ if u guys want to have a new/adjusted pythonic releasenotes script20:53
harlowja_i heard python was coool, so  converted that, ha20:54
harlowja_for those who might be curious with ironics state machine stuff, http://i.imgur.com/NJa0Apf.png is a current visualization of it20:59
harlowja_created from * https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142887/21:00
dhellmannharlowja_: I've reviewed and approved several taskflow patches today to make up for missing yesterday. There's one that look like it may need a rebase, though. http://status.openstack.org/zuul/21:05
harlowja_kk21:06
harlowja_i do love the rebases, ha21:06
harlowja_thx dhellmann21:06
harlowja_ya, looks like that one21:07
harlowja_rebasing21:07
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Add a conductor running example  https://review.openstack.org/12941221:10
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Rework the in-memory backend  https://review.openstack.org/12455221:10
harlowja_hopefully that rebase should pick up the change that fixed that issue21:11
* harlowja_ wishes python thread safety semantics were more clear (especially in regard to containers)...21:11
harlowja_some things on dicts are thread safe, some arent, lol21:11
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harlowja_and its not so clear; unless u sometimes start jumping into the cpython code :-/21:12
openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/stevedore: Fix the README.rst file format for pypi  https://review.openstack.org/14290521:12
sigmavirus24sdague: jogo https://gitlab.com/pycqa/flake8/merge_requests/1421:16
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sdaguesigmavirus24: nice21:17
sigmavirus24just realized there's probably one problem with it21:17
sigmavirus24would have been very subtle otherwise :P21:17
openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Base task executor should provide 'wait_for_any'  https://review.openstack.org/13265121:17
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Have the sphinx copyright date be dynamic  https://review.openstack.org/14019021:18
openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Cleanup some doc warnings/bad/broken links  https://review.openstack.org/14162621:18
openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/oslo.rootwrap: Move files out of the namespace package  https://review.openstack.org/14114721:18
openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Remove default setting of 'mysql_traditional_mode'  https://review.openstack.org/13693821:20
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/tooz: A few more documentation tweaks  https://review.openstack.org/14290621:20
openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/oslo.config: Set the version string  https://review.openstack.org/14067121:21
openstackgerritClark Boylan proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Only import sphinx during hook processing  https://review.openstack.org/14284021:24
openstackgerritClark Boylan proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Properly check for git before getting git dir  https://review.openstack.org/14284121:24
openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Add a history retry object, makes retry histories easier to use  https://review.openstack.org/12361621:24
openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Use explict 'attr_dict' when adding provider->consumer edge  https://review.openstack.org/13982521:24
openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/14264021:25
openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/oslo.config: Raise TemplateSubstitutionError from _substitute  https://review.openstack.org/14014321:28
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openstackgerritClark Boylan proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Only import sphinx during hook processing  https://review.openstack.org/14284021:36
openstackgerritClark Boylan proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Properly check for git before getting git dir  https://review.openstack.org/14284121:36
openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/oslo.i18n: Move out of the oslo namespace package  https://review.openstack.org/12732321:45
dhellmannjecarey: have a sec to talk about translation files for ^^ ?21:45
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openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Move over to using oslo.utils [reflection, uuidutils]  https://review.openstack.org/14022021:58
harlowja_dhellmann dims__ ^ just a rebase; once that goes through (tested locally fines)21:59
dims__harlowja_: done22:00
harlowja_thx22:00
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Add a basic map/reduce example to show how this can be done  https://review.openstack.org/13007222:13
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openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/oslo-incubator: Add the ability to skip requirement commits  https://review.openstack.org/14291622:30
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/oslo-incubator: Add the ability to skip requirement commits  https://review.openstack.org/14291622:30
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openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/oslo-incubator: Add the ability to skip requirement commits  https://review.openstack.org/14291622:37
openstackgerritMerged openstack/tooz: A few more documentation tweaks  https://review.openstack.org/14290622:40
openstackgerritDave Walker proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Ignore non-release related tags  https://review.openstack.org/14214422:42
openstackgerritMerged openstack/stevedore: Fix the README.rst file format for pypi  https://review.openstack.org/14290522:43
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/oslo.i18n: Move out of the oslo namespace package  https://review.openstack.org/12732322:45
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Get the basics of a process executor working  https://review.openstack.org/12128022:49
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Get event/notification sending working correctly  https://review.openstack.org/13469022:49
openstackgerritJoshua Harlow proposed openstack/taskflow: Add a simplistic hello world example  https://review.openstack.org/13857222:49
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openstackgerritMonty Taylor proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Merge branch 'feature/0.10'  https://review.openstack.org/14293023:17
openstackgerritMonty Taylor proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Port in git sha changes from 0.10 line  https://review.openstack.org/14293123:17
bnemecdhellmann: Did you mean to +W this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138217/ ?23:23
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openstackgerritChris Hoge proposed openstack/oslo.config: Added help generation for groups  https://review.openstack.org/14293523:36
openstackgerritClark Boylan proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Only import sphinx during hook processing  https://review.openstack.org/14284023:36
openstackgerritClark Boylan proposed openstack-dev/pbr: Properly check for git before getting git dir  https://review.openstack.org/14284123:36
openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Add a parallel table mutation example  https://review.openstack.org/13324723:41
openstackgerritMerged openstack/taskflow: Move over to using oslo.utils [reflection, uuidutils]  https://review.openstack.org/14022023:42
hogepodgedhellmann the second part of that patch is up. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142935/1 I marked it as WIP, mainly to get discussion on the help format and the exposure of groups on the config class23:44
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