Friday, 2015-10-16

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newbieehi neiljerram14:02
newbiee:)14:02
neiljerramnewbiee: hi!14:04
neiljerramnewbiee: how are you?14:04
newbieeneiljerram: feeling much better today14:04
neiljerramnewbiee: ah, good!14:04
newbieeneiljerram: sorry about missing yesterday. Hopefully you saw my email14:05
neiljerramnewbiee: Actually no, I don't think so...14:05
newbieeneiljerram: I sent you email yesterday morning :)14:06
neiljerramnewbiee: I might have deleted it by accident, though.  One of the things with OpenStack is that one gets so much email on the ML...14:06
neiljerramnewbiee: I'm sorry if that's what happened!14:06
newbieeneiljerram: No you didn't. I just checked now and I had actually emailed myself!14:07
newbieeneiljerram: just forwarded the email to you14:07
neiljerramnewbiee: Ah yes, that happens often too.14:07
neiljerramnewbiee: Anyway, it wasn't a problem at all.  Gave me a bit more time to think about a possible project.14:08
newbieeneiljerram: yay!14:08
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newbieeneiljerram: I watched rossella_s' video and read some information on networking guide14:09
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neiljerramSo I thought and briefly discussed with people on IRC, and also read the guidelines that vkmc and annegentle provided, and I think it's important that the project is in an area where I'm already ramped up, or close to ramped up myseld.14:09
neiljerram*myself14:09
newbieeneiljerram: ok14:10
neiljerramNeutron is so big and complex, that it could be a problem going into an area that we're both not yet familiar with.14:10
newbieeneiljerram: agree. And with 2 weeks left for me to atleast make my small contribution towards application14:11
neiljerramSo, one area that I'm interested in, and have partly ramped up on, is pluggable IPAM.14:11
neiljerramIPAM = IP address management14:11
newbieeneiljerram: ah! sounds interesting14:11
neiljerramHave you come across that at all?14:11
newbieeneiljerram: yes, in the networking document14:11
neiljerramIt's a new feature in Liberty, so probably very few people have yet really explored what it can do.14:12
newbieeneiljerram: if I am correct, that feature should allow third party IP address management?14:12
newbieeneiljerram: oh I see14:12
neiljerramApart from the developers, who I believe are John Belamaric and Pavel Bondar.14:13
neiljerramYes, that's exactly right.14:13
newbieeneiljerram: I saw some emails in the ML about Liberty release14:13
newbieeneiljerram: I think I like the project - pluggable IPAM14:13
neiljerramI'm interested in an application of pluggable IPAM where the objective would be to allocate IP addresses so that they tend to be clustered by IP prefix on each compute host.14:14
neiljerramOr perhaps on a group of compute hosts, which in a real datacenter might be the hosts in a particular rack.14:15
newbieeneiljerram: is that the similar to subnetting?14:16
neiljerramYes, I believe it is.  But perhaps sub-subnetting.14:16
newbieeneiljerram: ah! I can see cloud networking in play here :)14:17
newbieeneiljerram: it sounds exciting14:17
neiljerramGreat!14:17
newbieeneiljerram: how much python knowledge will I need for this?14:18
neiljerramThere are two kinds of operator projects that would really like something like this.14:18
newbiee<neiljerram> There are two kinds of operator projects that would really like something like this: ok14:18
neiljerramOne of those is a set of 'large deployment use cases' that are described at https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/145889014:19
openstackLaunchpad bug 1458890 in neutron "Add segment support to Neutron" [Undecided,Triaged]14:19
neiljerramThe other is the 'Calico' project that I'm associated with myself.14:20
* neiljerram pauses for breath....14:20
neiljerramPython-wise - well, you certainly will need Python knowledge, for any code change that you work on.14:21
newbieeneiljerram: haha14:21
neiljerramDo you already know some Python?14:21
newbieeneiljerram: no14:22
newbieebut I can learn it if I need to14:22
neiljerramAnd it's easy to learn, allegedly :-)14:22
newbieeneiljerram: I have just been reading some sample lines14:22
newbieeneiljerram: oh, that's encouraging news14:22
* neiljerram is just in another discussion - please hang on a mo...14:23
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neiljerramnewbiee: Hi again, sorry for that...14:34
newbieeneiljerram: that's ok :)14:34
neiljerramAnyway, I'm pretty sure that Python is something you will be able to pick up; and obviously we (and others!) can also talk about any coding improvement points during reviews.14:35
newbieeneiljerram:awesome14:35
newbieeneiljerram:  I just glanced at the feature request for the "large deployment use cases".14:36
neiljerramBy the way, am I correct in assuming that you would like to include some coding work?  As opposed to, say, docs, or spec/design work?14:36
newbieeneiljerram: yes please. I will like some coding that I can complete within the given time frame. I can learn more once I start contributing regularly14:37
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newbieeneiljerram: also, if time permits, I can do a bit of docs or spec/design work14:37
neiljerramOK, excellent.14:38
newbieeneiljerram: do you by chance have a link to the 'Calico' project?14:38
neiljerramI certainly do!14:40
neiljerramWithin the OpenStack context, http://docs.openstack.org/developer/networking-calico/ is the best place to start, for the Calico approach.14:42
neiljerramAnd from there there are various other links from that page.14:42
newbieeneiljerram: thanks!14:42
neiljerramBut we need to be careful about the boundaries here.  It would be wrong for me to kind of co-opt you into working on Calico, just because I'm mentoring you.  But on the other hand I think it is an interesting approach, and good for you to be aware of as part of the suggested pluggable IPAM project.14:44
neiljerramI hope you see what I mean there...14:44
newbiee neiljerram: i see your point14:46
neiljerramAnyway, stepping back a bit, I should mention that I have two concerns about this as a possible project.14:47
newbiee neiljerram: if I correctly understand the idea of Calico- it is to provide a way to secure connectivity between nodes (regardless of whether the connection is at L2 or L3?14:48
newbiee neiljerram: but using IP routing?14:48
neiljerramYes, but L3 only, not L2.14:48
newbiee neiljerram: ok, I see. Oh you said you have concerns...14:48
neiljerramWhereas most Neutron implementations provide L2-level connectivity between VMs14:48
neiljerramYes.14:49
neiljerramFirst concern is just that I haven't yet spoken about this properly with the main pluggable IPAM developers.14:49
neiljerramI've mentioned it very briefly in the past, but would like to run it past them a bit more, if we're really going to do it as a project.14:50
newbiee neiljerram: I see14:50
neiljerramSecond concern is that it's possible that the implementation might end up needing something on the Nova side, as well as in Neutron.14:51
neiljerramWhich basically means multiplying the complexity factor by about 5!14:51
newbiee neiljerram: hmmm, sound complicated14:51
newbiee*sounds14:51
neiljerramBut on the other hand, that also makes it more interesting...14:52
newbiee neiljerram: that may also drag on due to interweaving with Nova14:52
neiljerramYes, true.14:52
neiljerramBut I'm not sure about that. And probably the picture there will be clearer once I can talk to John and Pavel about this idea.14:53
newbiee neiljerram: I see14:53
newbiee neiljerram: are there any drawbacks with the 'large deployment use cases' project?14:54
neiljerramWhat kind of drawbacks do you mean?14:54
newbiee neiljerram: any concerns you may have about that project as well14:55
newbiee neiljerram: sorry, I mean the 'large deployment use cases' project14:55
neiljerramOK.  No, no concerns there.14:55
newbiee neiljerram: ah I see14:55
neiljerramTo be clear, note that we're not talking here about implementing the whole of the 'large deployment use cases' project, or of pieces of Calico.14:56
newbiee neiljerram: ok14:57
neiljerramThose are being largely addressed by other work, notably the spec that is being discussed at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225384/14:57
newbiee neiljerram: ah I see14:58
neiljerramBut the pluggable IPAM piece is an extra, that those projects can both use too, but that isn't already being addressed by other work.14:58
neiljerramI could explain more about that, if you like, i.e. about what the benefits of the proposed IPAM would be.14:59
neiljerramOr we could leave that to another day, as we've already talked a lot here.15:00
neiljerramAs you prefer!15:00
newbieeneiljerram: I think I kinda understand what the benefits of the proposed IPAM would be, from reading the info you provided15:01
newbieeneiljerram: would you by chance know when you plan to clarify with the developers on the 'Calico' project?15:01
newbieeneiljerram: sorry, I mean the IPAM developers. (I keep missing parts of my posting :)15:04
neiljerramYes, I agree that that is the next step.15:04
neiljerramIt seems they are on #openstack-neutron now, so we could try to talk to them straightaway.15:05
newbieeneiljerram: sounds great! I will jump in there right now15:06
neiljerramOK, me too, see you there.15:08
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newbieeneiljerram: thanks for looking further into this!15:40
neiljerramnewbiee: No problem.  What did you think of that discussion?15:43
newbieeneiljerram: It sounded a challenging15:44
neiljerramnewbiee: Yes!15:44
newbieeneiljerram: my gut feeling for now is leaning towards the 'large deployment use cases'15:45
neiljerramnewbiee: So I should write it up as an idea, at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Internship_ideas.15:45
newbieeneiljerram: but i will like to see the idea for 'Calico'15:45
newbieeneiljerram: maybe 'large deployment use cases' is looking more approachable because it is already in the works15:46
neiljerramnewbiee: And possibly there is some idea-registration process for me to do at the Outreachy site too; not sure.15:46
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neiljerramnewbiee: Then you can review the available ideas and decide what you like best!15:47
newbieeneiljerram: sounds great!15:47
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neiljerramnewbiee: BTW have you seen that Rossella also has an idea at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Internship_ideas ?15:48
newbieeneiljerram: oh no. Will check right now15:48
neiljerramI don't know for sure whether it is still current, but I would guess that it is.15:48
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newbieeneiljerram: I just looked up the page- Metering sounds interesting too, but I will prefer a pluggable IPAM project15:52
neiljerramvkmc: Are you available for a process question?15:53
vkmcneiljerram, sure!15:53
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neiljerramvkmc: Hi there!  Just wanted to clarify the process for registering ideas.15:54
neiljerramvkmc: I see https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Internship_ideas, but is there also something to do at outreachy.gnome.org?15:56
vkmcneiljerram, well, ideas can be submitted in the wiki following the table format (there is a model you can use)15:56
vkmcno, ideas are only submitted within the organization15:56
neiljerramvkmc: (For some reason I cannot log into https://outreachy.gnome.org/?q=login at the moment, so finding it tricky to check the latter.)15:56
vkmcit doesn't have to be registered in GNOME's site15:56
vkmcneiljerram, are you trying to log in with OpenID? some other mentors had similar issues if so15:57
neiljerramvkmc: OK, thanks.  I was worried because I think I remember seeing another Neutron idea in the GNOME site.  Possibly an old one.15:57
neiljerramvkmc: I'm using a Google log in.15:57
neiljerramvkmc: That was working for me a couple of days ago, but seems broken now.15:58
vkmcneiljerram, oh, I don't remember seeing ideas (expect from the ones that has been accepted in previous internship rounds) in GNOME's site15:58
vkmcneiljerram, yeah it's bugged15:58
vkmcI'll let the Outreachy administrators know so they fix it15:58
neiljerramvkmc: OK, happy to accept your word on that (i.e. ideas)!15:58
vkmcneiljerram, sure! :) you are in Neutron, right?15:59
neiljerramvkmc: Thanks! [login]15:59
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neiljerramvkmc: Yes, I am in Neutron.16:01
vkmcthat's awesome16:01
vkmcso... any non-critical task, preferably it it can be done in 3 months, is a good choice16:02
vkmcif it requires more time, it's ok... mentees can keep working on them if they want, but its not mandatory16:02
vkmcs/it it/if it16:03
neiljerramWe have something in mind that I think will be achievable.  Were just discussing it in #openstack-neutron.16:03
vkmcthat's cool, thanks!16:04
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neiljerramSo formally, I believe, (1) I now describe that idea at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Internship_ideas (initially on a separate page);16:04
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neiljerram(2) newbiee considers and decides if she wants to make an application for that idea, and then does so;16:04
neiljerram(3) applications are reviewed, and newbiee hears whether her application has been accepted16:05
neiljerram(4) sleeves are rolled up and work starts.16:05
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neiljerramIs that correct?16:05
newbieeneiljerram, vkmc: I believe I also have to make and submit a small contribution (based on my intended project) as part of my application proccess. Maybe vkmc can also help shed more light on that area?16:08
newbieevkmc: BTW, I did say hi !16:09
vkmcneiljerram, exactly yes16:09
vkmcnewbiee, hi there!16:09
vkmcnewbiee, once you selected the project you wanted to work on (e.g., you are interested in Neutron because you like the idea neiljerram proposed for the internship)16:09
vkmcnewbiee, then you are supposed to submit an small contribution to the project16:10
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vkmcnewbiee, if you cannot find an easy bug in Neutron, though, you can look for bugs in another project16:10
vkmcthe idea is you to get involved with the contribution workflow16:10
newbieevkmc: oh, my contribution doesn't have to be associated with my internship project?16:11
vkmc(e.g., deploying DevStack with the services you need, set up your contributor accounts, pick a bug, check how to fix that bug, propose a fix for the bug)16:11
vkmcit has to be in OpenStack and it has to be a code contribution (if you are applying to do a coding internship)16:12
vkmcif its in the project you are interested, better16:12
newbieevkmc, neiljerram: ah I see16:12
newbieeneijerram: what do you think will be best for me to do?16:16
vkmcnewbiee, you can help looking for a task by going through the bug list in https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron, https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-neutronclient16:19
vkmcand other project related to Neutron you may be aware of16:19
vkmcread the descriptions, think if there is something you can easily do16:20
vkmc(e.g. fixing a typo, fixing docs, etc)16:20
vsham20vkmc:hello16:20
vkmcproactivity and independence is very important and very well considered16:20
vkmcvsham20, hi16:20
newbieevkmc: I get it now.16:20
newbieevkmc: thanks!16:20
vkmccool16:20
vkmcnewbiee, np16:20
newbieevkmc: I will look up those links and take it from there16:21
vsham20vkmc:so i am done with proposal...i guess i have to mail it to get it reviewd. right?16:21
newbieeneiljerram: I guess we will continue another day, when you have some time :-)16:21
vkmcvsham20, please follow the indications here https://outreachy.gnome.org/?q=program_home&prg=516:22
vsham20vkmc:okay..thnks16:22
vkmcnp16:23
newbieeneiljerram: Would we consider our internship ideas as mainly 'coding'? I'm just trying to figure out what type of bug I can work on.16:24
neiljerramSorry guys - got pulled away for quite a while there...16:39
neiljerramnewbiee: Assuming you apply for this IPAM project, I would suggest just reading through and trying to understand some of the IPAM code.  It will almost certainly be the case that you will see something that you think could be better structured, or better explained, and then you could submit a patch to make that change.16:42
neiljerramnewbiee: Alternatively - or as well - there is the list of 'low hanging fruit' bugs that Rossella suggested.16:42
neiljerramnewbiee: But I don't think you should worry; I'm sure there will be something.16:43
newbieeneiljerram: Awesome! Thanks again for your effort!16:44
neiljerramnewbiee: Just saw your question above... yes, I think this idea would be a combination of spec, discussion and coding; mainly coding.16:44
newbieeneiljerram: I will start reading on IPAM code first. Second choice will be the low hanging fruit16:45
neiljerramnewbiee: I need to wrap up now.  I will describe and put up the idea at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Internship_ideas for Monday.  In case you see something that suggests other ideas too, please do feel free to write those up in the required format, and I will be happy to consider if I could mentor those too!16:47
newbieesure thing. Thanks and you have a great evening!16:47
neiljerramnewbiee: vkmc Thanks so much, and have a great evening and weekend!16:48
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vkmcneiljerram, thanks! enjoy your weekend! :)16:53
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