Tuesday, 2018-06-26

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mihalis68I might be delayed getting here at 10am (20 minutes from now) for the Ops Meetups team meeting, so I have update the minutes with my updates13:41
mihalis68https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team13:41
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smcginnisThanks mihalis6813:45
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mihalis68#startmeeting ops-meetup-team14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 26 14:00:26 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mihalis68. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ops_meetup_team'14:00
mihalis68I'm here for now, might get pulled way14:00
mihalis68*away14:00
smcginnismihalis68: Yay, was just about to start it.14:00
mihalis68#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team14:00
mihalis68that's our agenda today14:00
mihalis68I am going to be selfish and dump my updates14:01
mihalis68there's a survey linked to the agenda14:01
smcginnis++14:01
mihalis68we only have 20 respondents so far14:01
mihalis68 thanks to those that shared it. I saw several tweets - much appreciated14:01
mihalis68I shared it with the mailing list14:01
mihalis68responses are going a different way than I expected14:01
smcginnisWow, so 5 days with ops up front. I'm a little surprised, but that's great.14:02
mihalis68strongly skewed towards : considering going vs. not (I guess this is because people can't be bothered with a survey for something they don't care about)14:02
smcginnisHah, true14:02
mihalis68but then yes people like a 5 day event clearly, and they so far prefer ops events up front14:02
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mihalis68ops events after is gaining ground though, hence I want to get a better sample size14:02
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mihalis68I looked into making results into a doc, but that costs money14:03
mihalis68maybe I will do that, just didn't explore any further14:03
mihalis68the other action I had was to reawaken the threads on the 3 ops related docs that need new owners14:03
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smcginnisI think I've taken screen shots and put relevant things in a Google doc for past surveys I've done.14:03
* smcginnis is cheap14:03
mihalis68I don't understand the technical lingo that mailing list thread got into, so it's hard for me to work with it14:03
smcginnismihalis68: Do you have a link to the thread>14:05
mihalis68yes I will either share full results via a data export, or screenshots14:05
mihalis68I was planning to share with everybody who turns up here for the meeting14:05
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mihalis68let me grab the link to that thread now14:05
emccormickhi guys. On a call but am here14:07
smcginnisHey emccormick o/14:07
mihalis68this is the first message in the thread : http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2018-May/015318.html14:07
smcginnismihalis68: Thanks, I'll try to read through there a little later and see if there is anything I can help with on the technical jargon side.14:07
mihalis68#topic actions14:08
*** openstack changes topic to "actions (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)"14:08
mihalis68I forgot to set topic. Those were my actions I believe14:08
mihalis68anyone else care to report on past actions? It's an honor system, nobody has time to track other peoples actions :)14:08
emccormickI have no actions14:09
VWhowdy folks14:09
VWhere - but in another meeting at the same time14:09
mihalis68welcome welcome14:09
mihalis68I think the only exciting thing this week is the survey14:10
mihalis68please can you guys also boost the signal on that?14:10
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mihalis68handy link to Sean's tweet:14:11
mihalis68#link https://twitter.com/SeanTMcGinnis/status/101027067018862182514:11
mihalis68#topic PTG14:11
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)"14:11
mihalis68happy to say my employer is likely to send 3 of us14:12
jamesmcarthurThat’s great!14:12
mihalis68so attendance should be "current+3" as we14:12
mihalis68we're definitely not booked yet14:12
mihalis68i saw correspondence about facilities for the ops corner14:12
smcginnisAwesome. With the survey results so far, I'm optimistic we'll get good turn out here.14:13
mihalis68Sean responded with the same info I might have sent so I assume that's squared away for now?14:13
smcginnisOh right, I was going to mention someone else should respond to that too.14:13
smcginnisOh good, I was hoping I wasn't too far off base.14:13
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kendallwatersthe only thing still outstanding is how many days and what days y'all want those rooms14:14
mihalis68the required facilities are actually on our wiki, see Venue Selection in #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Operations/Meetups14:14
mihalis68maybe we should pick an end-date for the survey. How is end of this week? Close the survey Sunday night, results shared next Monday?14:15
jamesmcarthurthe sooner the better14:16
mihalis68not my decision - can leave it longer or close it up sooner14:16
smcginniskendallwaters: Is there a date you need things finalized?14:16
jamesmcarthurJust from a planning perspective.14:16
mihalis68I would think some more smoke signals about it saying closing soon might flush out some more responses14:17
mihalis68deadlines and all that14:17
kendallwatersbasically just ASAP so we can finalize space planning. the sooner its finalized, the sooner we can share it with teams14:17
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smcginnismihalis68: ++14:18
mihalis68the survey only just made it into last week. I think we missed most people by creting it friday afternoon in late late spring14:18
mihalis68so if we closed it end of Friday, that would be 5 clear business days14:18
mihalis68given the time-sensitive nature, that seems reasonable? Input very much requested here14:19
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smcginnisNot ideal, but I think given where we are it's good enough and may get folks moving on taking the survey.14:19
jamesmcarthurThe rest of the project teams will probably have to be notified sooner than that, so we might just put a “TBS” on the Ops rooms14:19
jamesmcarthurTBD not TBS :)14:19
jamesmcarthurThat way folks can start planning their travel14:20
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jamesmcarthurWith the understanding we will announce Ops first thing next week14:20
smcginnisI think we can agree on the room. Is the issue on whether that room can be reused for other teams during the week?14:20
jamesmcarthurDoes that work?14:20
kendallwatersyeah, we need to know what days you want it so we can use for other teams on the days y'all arent using it14:21
jamesmcarthursmcginnis: also so we can put the official calendar out for travel planning14:21
kendallwatersbut if you want all 5 days, that is fine. it would just be nice to know asap14:21
smcginnisCan we go under the assumption that it will be all 5 days for now, then if the survey results support it we can free it up for ad hoc scheduling or other last minute adjustments?14:22
kendallwatersyup, we can definitely do that14:22
mihalis68Ok, so it sounds like locking down the ops sub-event for early next week is the *latest* we can go, which means close the survey Friday? The responses for ops days first vs last is only 7:3 in favor of first, which could swing14:22
smcginnismihalis68: Announce a Friday deadline but collect results Monday morning in case there are any stragglers over the weekend?14:23
VWI'll poke the email lists again about answering the survey14:23
VWso they hear reminders from someone different14:23
VW++ smcginnis14:23
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mihalis68I feel like we've veered slightly off track here. I wasn't thinking that ops people wanted a 5 day ops event14:23
VWno, I think she just meant we could retain the space14:24
mihalis68it's a 2-day ops event alongside a longer event and the question about which they are more interested in is regarding would they attend JUST the 2-day14:24
VWyeah14:24
smcginnismihalis68: Yeah, I'm surprised about the 5 day preference.14:24
mihalis68do we need the "ops room for more than 2- days?14:24
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smcginnisI wonder if they want to be there for 5 days in order to attend the project team sessions but really only want the first couple of days for ops focused sessions.14:25
mihalis68I like sean's idea of soft close survey friday but ACTUALLY close it end of weekend14:25
shintarohi14:25
smcginnisHey shintaro14:25
mihalis68hi14:25
shintaroSorry to be late14:26
mihalis68no problem14:26
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mihalis68there's a survey for ops linked to the agenda14:26
mihalis68please fwd to potentially-interested operators. It's about PTG, Denver, September14:26
shintaroI've posted mine14:27
mihalis68great14:27
shintaroI will forwad it to our regional slack channel14:27
mihalis68#action mihalis68 to close the ops survey before Monday at the latest so that the planning team has firm info start of next week14:28
mihalis68any more regarding PTG today?14:29
smcginnisnope14:29
jamesmcarthurNo sir14:29
shintaroSo Ops get free Summit ticket by attending the PTG?14:29
kendallwatersyes sir!14:29
jamesmcarthurCorrect14:29
shintaroOr do we need ATC or AUC?14:29
jamesmcarthurActually the next two summits14:30
smcginnisIt's a good selling point we need to make sure they know. That helps justify the price.14:30
mihalis68is that linked to the PTG page? I might retweet the survey highlighting this14:30
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mihalis68it's definitely a nice incentive14:30
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jamesmcarthurI think it’s on there. Will try to dig up when on my laptop14:31
* mnaser is late but me wants to attend ops and project teams too14:31
mihalis68I'll research that myself or if anyone finds a link email me14:31
shintaroyes we should promote that14:31
mihalis68#topic possible regional event14:31
*** openstack changes topic to "possible regional event (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)"14:31
jamesmcarthurShould be in he FAQ on ptg page14:31
mihalis68I discussed the suitability of an ops meetup to be hosted at Bloomberg HQ14:31
mihalis68that type of event (strictly) is acceptable14:31
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mihalis68but we can't redefine it and then still have an expectation of using the facilities14:32
mihalis68there's no real plan here, except to model on regional meetups such as Shintaro has run successfully14:32
mihalis68the one other constraint would be to find a time that doesn't undermine the main events. I think there's enough time in the year14:32
mihalis68other than that no updates on that right now14:33
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smcginnisI do still like the idea.14:33
mihalis68there was definitely strong interest in a regional NE USA event, though14:33
mnasersorry if this is a misplaced question but i assume regional events will happen alongside the "ops meetup" at the ptg?14:33
shintaroOur regional event is always colocated with other events such as OpenStack Days so not so much work in logistics.14:33
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mihalis68there are people doing openstack in NE USA who can swing "train to NYC" but not "plane to Denver" expenses14:33
mnaserso its not one or the other?14:34
mihalis68definitely not "alongside". I'll be in denver for PTG, definitely not confusing the issue with something local at same time14:34
mihalis68shintaro we no longer seem to have openstack days in this part of the world, hence the desire to kickstart something14:35
emccormickwould be nice to have one up here for sure14:35
emccormickdon't know why the last one completely failed.14:36
smcginnisI wonder if there is anyone in that region that would be interested in pulling together an OpenStack Days event if they can do it along side an ops meetup.14:36
emccormickAlthough I have a feeling it was organizer fatigue14:36
mnaser'up here' being?14:36
emccormickThe Openstack DC meetup is deader than dead14:36
emccormick'up here' being NE US14:36
emccormickNortheast Corridor (DC -> NYC -> Boston)14:36
shintarounderstand the situation. We are having a hard time finding a sponsor for OpenStack Days event.14:36
mnasersmcginnis: not to sidetrack the meeting, but the biggest problem i've noticed was the fact that if no marketing people are involved, people do it out of their own time, and they get tired at some point.14:37
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smcginnisTrue14:37
mnaserand these events are expensive so it becomes hard to justify the roi to sponsor them14:37
emccormickHaving just gone to an Openstack Northern Virginia meetup for a talk Robert did, I know there were about 20 people there, and he said 3 people showed up in NYC14:37
emccormickcrazy14:37
mihalis68OpenStack Days East was in NYC last time it happened. The following year they couldn't find sponsors. Thus we need to lower expectations of what can be done. An ops meetup is a non-vendor-y working session. It so happens bloomberg could host that14:37
mnasergiven the lack of openstack days (or 'openinfra' as we might call it lately).. i wouldn't look at colocating both events14:38
mihalis68which events are you referring to?14:38
smcginnisYeah, I guess keeping these a little more low key, low overhead is probably best.14:38
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mihalis68the current status is regional OS events in NE USA are : zero14:39
emccormickI was talking local meetups which are also dead in this area.14:39
mihalis68so a regional ops meetup might work and I think my company could host it. Given a venue, the rest of the costs and logistics are fairly low and manageable14:39
jamesmcarthurFWIW we are aware of the issue and working with the ambassadors to try to help those regional events come back to life.14:40
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smcginnismihalis68: Great to hear. Let us know if it looks like things can come together and if there's any help you need.14:41
mihalis68will do14:41
mihalis68I think the next thing I put on the agenda was the docs thing, but the etherpad isn't working for me right now14:41
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mihalis68#topic docs14:42
*** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)"14:42
mihalis68to sum up, there's a thread on the mailing list, following-on from a Vancouver session14:42
mihalis68there's interest in preserving three ops related docs, but changing their home and owners14:42
mihalis68if we can just work out the plan for that bit, there may be enough volunteer effort to get these updated and alive again14:43
mihalis68Sean can maybe decode the jargon for me, we'll see14:43
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mihalis68(the mailing list thread is linked above)14:43
mihalis68#mihalis68 to try to awaken the docs thread (continues from last week)14:43
mihalis68 ok. 15 minutes left. Think we're nearly done14:44
mihalis68#topic any other business14:44
*** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)"14:44
mihalis68anything?14:44
emccormickDo we have info on room allocation for Ops meetup in Denver?14:44
mihalis68there's a thread about the faciliites on the operators mailing list.14:44
smcginnisemccormick: Would be great if you could respond to that with any input.14:45
emccormickok, will go find. I'm way behind14:45
mihalis68Sean responded so far14:45
mihalis68It seemed probably sufficient. I'll take another look too14:45
emccormickhave a new customer going live with a big project next week so my life is hell right now14:45
mihalis68I'm a little bit flooded right now too (it's a lot more openstack for us, so yay, but also ouch)14:45
emccormickjust wanted to be able to ponder on single vs. multi-track and what sort of schedule we might have14:46
mihalis68I think we'll have the "shape" of this event early next week. Let's dive into the details then?14:46
smcginnisMulti-track is my only concern with the current proposal.14:46
mihalis68it's in Denver, so one track could be openstack one track could be cann... mountains?14:47
emccormickWell, the survey may tell us if we even have enough bodies to justify 2 tracks14:47
smcginnisHah!14:47
smcginnisemccormick: True14:47
mihalis68I think for it to be multi-track we'd need a compelling 2nd track idea ASAP14:47
smcginnisThere's also a nice brewery around the corner with a good patio that could provide another track.14:47
mihalis68openstack is "big in telecom" in APAC14:47
mihalis68that was somewhat obvious14:47
kendallwatersi can look into another space option for ops if what is proposed right now won't work14:47
mihalis68that's the built-in track we're not supposed to talk about!14:47
emccormickGET /api/v1/puff-puff-pass14:48
smcginniskendallwaters: Maybe we can use the ad hoc scheduling if we only need one or two extra separate sessions?14:48
mihalis68heh. In reality I regard sugar as a dangerous drug I should avoid these days. No need for more ... stuff14:48
smcginnismihalis68: Indeed14:48
emccormickI approve of the Brewery Track14:48
mihalis68does anyone have a non-comical proposal for 2nd track?14:49
smcginnis:)14:49
kendallwaterssmcginnis: i may have a 2 separate room option i can offer14:49
mihalis68bear in mind that ops coming to Denver will have lots of other possibilities for their timetables already14:49
emccormickThere's lots of openstacky shops in Denver / Fort Collins14:49
emccormickwhat are they?14:49
mihalis68personal view: 2-track ops meetup colocated with dev teams in PTG would be ... INSANE14:49
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emccormickit could be a bit of overload14:50
mihalis68VW last Q. today is whether we should make the ops bit dual track14:50
emccormickmaybe the second track is: Go to dev things14:50
mihalis68right14:50
VWsorry - VPN client hosed my laptop - just got back on14:50
mihalis68it's your pathetic little startup-y employer right? Oh no, wait...14:51
emccormickhaha14:51
smcginnisYeah, I guess that makes sense. One track for ops and x tracks for ops to sit in on with the rest of the PTG is probably more than sufficient.14:51
mihalis68here's a nickel kid...14:51
VW:P14:51
VWyes - that sounds good14:51
VWwith a couple of large sessions for all the OPs folks, I'm assuming14:51
emccormickI'm the one with the pathetic startup-y employer :D14:51
mihalis68Ok I feel we have rough consensus on everything discussed today, actions issued, work to do. Not much more meeting time14:52
smcginnisOK, so one room is good, just need to figure out specific dates.14:52
mihalis68agreed14:52
mihalis68emccormick I was trying to gently pull VW's leg after he hinted at large scale events coming up14:52
emccormickI'm still in the Wednesday / Thursday camp. I want to go to all the cross-project arguments14:52
mihalis68"oh yeah, we're donna do huge thi... dammit network fault" is just funny14:53
smcginnisemccormick: That's what I think would be the most useful.14:53
emccormickheh14:53
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shintaroWe actually had 3 room reserved but used only 2. the other one was used for people to discuss in small groups so it would be good to have one small room for after-session discussions14:53
shintaroThat's in Tokyo Ops Meetups14:53
* VW slow claps for mihalis68 and his wit 14:53
emccormick+114:53
mihalis68I am also hoping for cross-community days 1,2 and then focused days 3,414:53
smcginnisI think the outside area with tables will be good for smaller ad hoc discussions.14:53
mihalis68VW my network wasn't working just now, I'm in somewhat similar situatipon14:54
smcginnisIt is separated enough from the main thoroughfare that it should work well for conversations.14:54
shintarothat sounds sufficient14:54
jamesmcarthurThat’s what we were thinking as well smcginnis14:54
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emccormickor the brewery14:55
shintaro:)14:55
mihalis68Ok so several of us will look at the facilities email thread and chime in14:55
jamesmcarthurPlus I liked the idea that we could do coffee and such inside that room just for Ops Meetuo folks14:55
emccormick<--One track mind14:55
smcginnis:)14:55
mihalis68yes this is why 2-track is challenging for us erik - we start off with one track booked14:55
mihalis68I think we're done. Last call14:56
smcginnisjamesmcarthur: Any chance of at least a large monitor that could be put up on one of the rounds if we had a break out of a small group that wanted to go over something?14:56
smcginnisJust curious - I think someone's 15" laptop monitor can work well too.14:56
kendallwatersi can look into the monitor option14:57
smcginnismihalis68: Yeah, nothing else important to discuss in the meeting.14:57
smcginniskendallwaters: Thanks!14:57
mihalis68thanks all14:57
mihalis68#endmeeting14:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of topics related to operating Openstack infrastructures at scale | Mailing list: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators | Logs: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/"14:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 26 14:57:36 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:57
shintarothanks14:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2018/ops_meetup_team.2018-06-26-14.00.html14:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2018/ops_meetup_team.2018-06-26-14.00.txt14:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2018/ops_meetup_team.2018-06-26-14.00.log.html14:57
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jamesmcarthurGood day all!14:57
smcginnisThanks jamesmcarthur and kendallwaters!14:57
emccormickhave a good week :)14:58
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emccormickwhere is this magical mailing list thread?15:01
emccormickthe one on facilities? Totally not finding it15:01
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mihalis68sorry, I see you were omitted. I've replied adding you, I assume you can read the scroll back to catch up?15:07
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mihalis68I haven't been able to find a statement about the free summit tickets that come with PTG ticket purchase on the PTG related web pges15:40
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smcginnisopenstack ptg15:46
smcginnisDarn window focus!!15:46
mihalis68nice password dude15:47
smcginnisHah, no. Google search. :D15:48
smcginnisYeah, I thought someone said it was mentioned in the FAQ, but if it is, I'm not finding it here: https://www.openstack.org/ptg/#tab_faq15:49
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spotzI need to get the ops meeting on my calendar:(16:00
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mihalis68I can do that. If you want to share an email address that can receive calendar messages I'll add you16:40
mihalis68I organise the core team this way - we've realised this meeting has to fight for attention with all the other things distracting peopel16:40
smcginnismihalis68: I just responded to that ML thread with a proposal to move forward. Please take a look when you get a chance and respond with any feedback.16:42
smcginnisAnd anyone else interested in the docs discussion. ^^16:43
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mihalis68oh wow thanks Sean16:44
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mihalis68will definitely review and try to get back into the flow there16:44
smcginnismihalis68: If the plan sounds good to you, I can work on some of the logistics to get thing in place. Then hopefully you can use your limited free time to actually do what's important with actually getting the docs moved over.16:45
mihalis68I'm on board16:47
mihalis68I just speed-read it, sounds good to me16:47
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smcginnisGreat16:47
mihalis68responded16:48
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smcginnisPerfect. I will wait a bit to see if anyone points out any reason why it's not a good plan, and if nothing will proceed and copy you on anything.16:50
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smcginnisOh, there's already https://github.com/openstack/operations-guide, so might just be a matter of "unretiring" it.16:54
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spotzmihalis68: That'd be great, amy@demarco.com17:43
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smcginnisNo spotz email address? :)17:45
spotzWell I own abbeyroaddals.com, withoutaclue.com, stackymcstackface.com(I think .com),,,,17:46
spotzI did like your email smcginnis I was out feeding the horse when I read it17:47
smcginnisspotz: I want to see you use spotz@stackymcstackface.com :D17:48
smcginnisspotz: And thanks!17:48
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spotzheheh, let me see if it's even pointing to the mail server17:49
spotzI'll reply when I get a chance, doing ciber related quiz questions right now:)17:50
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spotzcinder even17:50
smcginnisAwesome17:51
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mihalis68I always enjoy boaty mcboatface-like jokes, but then I remember the Henry Worsley story and then I'm a tad bit sad (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/12/the-white-darkness)18:04
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emccormickspotz: Do you have an actual horse, or was this euphamism?18:14
spotzemccormick: One horse in the backyard retired and then a pony I compete18:15
emccormickmihalis68 Thanks for adding me. Will catch up18:15
emccormickspotz: Awesome! I used to ride hunters and jumpers. Now I just ride badly when I go visit my mom since she's the only one of us with time for such things anymore ;)18:16
mihalis68Cool18:16
spotzemccormick: Cool, the old man was my AA hunter, I'm doing the pony in Dressage18:17
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emccormickspotz: I'm super jealous. Wish I still had a horse. Must be nice having them right out back. I grew up on 5 acres with an 8 stall barn. Now I have a townhouse with a 20' x 30' yard.18:29
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spotzemccormick: I always had to board until we moved to TX, bought the property with the old man's retirement in mind. Pony is boarded out, ride every morning18:30
mihalis68emccormick: I bet you can part at or near your house?18:31
mihalis68*park18:31
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emccormickThere used to be a couple stables within 15 miles of here. Now I have to go out to Middleburg, Culpeper, etc. All at least a 40 minute ride each way18:34
emccormickAdd to that my blind $#@ can't drive and my wife is allergic to everything in and around a barn so I'd be racking up a pretty big Uber bill ;)18:35
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spotzMiddleburg area is so pretty though!18:37
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