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| mihalis68 | anyone around? | 14:04 |
|---|---|---|
| blake | yes | 14:05 |
| shintaro | hi | 14:05 |
| mihalis68 | we're due an openstack ops meetups team meeting now | 14:05 |
| mihalis68 | #startmeeting ops-meetup-team | 14:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 19 14:05:51 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mihalis68. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)" | 14:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ops_meetup_team' | 14:05 |
| smcginnis | Hey! | 14:06 |
| mihalis68 | agenda https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team | 14:06 |
| mihalis68 | please add your name to the attendees list if you're here for the meeting | 14:06 |
| shintaro | o/ | 14:06 |
| mihalis68 | #topic actions | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)" | 14:07 | |
| mihalis68 | I was due to reawaken the debate about the way forward on docs | 14:07 |
| mihalis68 | for those who weren't in Vancouver or not in the session, there was strong support for a change of plan on the three docs that look most relevant to operators | 14:08 |
| spotz | o/ | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | the docs are the operators Guide, the HA guide and Arch guide | 14:08 |
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| blake | o/ | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | the operators guide was converted to wiki with the intent that it would be community edited, however there's no enthusiasm for that approach it seems | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | compared to reverting to the source code method of maintinaing it and simply moving it to a different repo where it can have new owners | 14:09 |
| mihalis68 | meanwhile the arch guide is also in a similar state of being due for removal from the core openstack doc set and arguably needing the same ownership change | 14:09 |
| mihalis68 | same for HA guide | 14:09 |
| mihalis68 | for HA guide there's even an offer to rewrite | 14:09 |
| mihalis68 | adam speirs IIRC | 14:10 |
| mihalis68 | I haven't done this action, but I'll try to get to that this week - on the mailing list | 14:10 |
| spotz | If it's a matter of tooling, I'm willing to run the Git and Gerrit Lunch and Learn at the Ops Meetup | 14:10 |
| mihalis68 | yes I think the tooling is a concern for those who might like to jump in | 14:11 |
| shintaro | that sounds great idea | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | at least, it is a concern for me | 14:11 |
| smcginnis | Adam seemed keen to get that rewritten, so he may just need a poke to get going on that. | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | I think we need to show it will land somewhere welcoming. The mailing list thread faltered over the exact details of the plan | 14:12 |
| smcginnis | If I remember right, there was some confusion about the scope of what this team would be taking on there. | 14:12 |
| mihalis68 | yes agreed | 14:13 |
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| mihalis68 | I didn't understand some of the jargon in that thread about where the code should be kept and what the process should be | 14:13 |
| smcginnis | Sorry, I think I was catching up on other things then. If we get that started again and there are any issues like that, just let me know and I can try to clarify things. | 14:14 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to try to reawaken the ops docs thread on the operators mailing loist | 14:14 |
| mihalis68 | that assistance will be much appreciated smcginnis! | 14:14 |
| spotz | And one last point I think was how the repo needed to be set up without agreements? | 14:15 |
| mihalis68 | any other actions from past meetings people care to update us on. We have to use the honor system for actions these days | 14:15 |
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| jamesmcarthur | Total of 15 operators registrar | 14:16 |
| jamesmcarthur | For ptg | 14:16 |
| jamesmcarthur | Which is a little less than 10% of total | 14:16 |
| smcginnis | jamesmcarthur: I forget, was there a registration option where they could identify themselves as that? | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | There will most likely be two of us from Bloomberg and we're not registered. In fact I only just mentioned it to my boss | 14:17 |
| jamesmcarthur | Yeah. Expecting late registrants | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | seems like that's it for actions updates. | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | #topic PTG | 14:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)" | 14:17 | |
| mihalis68 | #info 15 registered operators so far | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | #info operators seem to always register fairly late on | 14:17 |
| jamesmcarthur | S smcginnis no. We are counting based on names of registrants | 14:18 |
| jamesmcarthur | Sorry all. In my car. | 14:18 |
| smcginnis | jamesmcarthur: I hope you're not driving and IRCing. :D | 14:19 |
| shintaro | I should be one of those 15 :) | 14:19 |
| spotz | If he's back in Austin he's sitting in traffic:) | 14:19 |
| jamesmcarthur | In traffic. Trim g to type at lights | 14:20 |
| smcginnis | Hah | 14:20 |
| mihalis68 | is there any concept of defined days for operators within the PTG? | 14:20 |
| mihalis68 | We're on the hook for a big release of our openstack product for a big infra project at my employer and that time (september 10-14th) is likely to be fraught | 14:21 |
| spotz | I think the thought was to allow it to run as normal with the ability to have merged days? | 14:21 |
| mihalis68 | it was proposed as a co-located ops meetup, but I don't see any sign of that | 14:21 |
| spotz | mihalis68: How would you like to see that impression fixed? | 14:22 |
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| smcginnis | Yeah, last I heard specific format was still being worked out dependent on attendance and space arrangements. | 14:22 |
| spotz | I know I can do git and the folks who did the suse troubleshooting session at summit are willing to do it at the ops meetup if content is needed | 14:23 |
| mihalis68 | well I'm not sure I'm right, as i haven't really explored the PTG website, but if it's true, then a way forward would be to decide which days should be considered if you can do 2 days but not 5 | 14:23 |
| smcginnis | But I believe the plan (or at least hope) was to have a separate clearly identified Ops Meetup portion that would be there. | 14:23 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: ++ | 14:23 |
| mihalis68 | I will try and be there for the entire thing, but it might be possible to send additional people from my team for specific ops meetups stuff whereas the full 5 days is a long time | 14:24 |
| spotz | mihalis68: Ok so a big thing would be to pick dates, that makes sense so folks can get travel approval before buying tickets | 14:24 |
| aprice | yes, that is still the plan and the team is trying to plan so that it doesnt overlap with other sessions that would benefit from operator participation. I think it's still a work in progress. | 14:24 |
| mihalis68 | ok, good to hear. | 14:24 |
| smcginnis | Somewhere Wed-Fri? | 14:24 |
| mihalis68 | I was present for a discussion on this somewhere at the summit and there wasn't a clear consensus | 14:25 |
| smcginnis | I think there was some talk of making it when the project teams are more silo'd so ops can attend some of the cross project on Mon-Tue if desired. | 14:25 |
| spotz | mihalis68: yeah I think that was Mondayy I was there for that | 14:25 |
| mihalis68 | some said have ops and devs meetup separately then join together at the end to exchange findings | 14:25 |
| smcginnis | Separate Wed-Thurs, join back up Friday? | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | I like this for sure | 14:26 |
| spotz | I think the one downside of wed-fri is folks leaving on Friday | 14:26 |
| shintaro | smcginnis +1 | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | it also seems to be in line with the very original impetus for the "merger" in that days 1-2 are very appropriate for operators to join in, but days 3,4 less so (in the previous definition of PTG) | 14:27 |
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| smcginnis | That could work well. Mon-Tue for cross project things that could use operator input, Wed-Thur everyone goes to their corners, then Fri (if able to stay the whole time) get back for any kind of follow up activities and discussions. | 14:27 |
| aprice | i can share this concept with our team as they are working on space planning and scheduling now | 14:28 |
| spotz | aprice jamesmcarthur - would that work you think? | 14:28 |
| aprice | we should be able to provide an update before the next meeting, but I dont want to say yay or nay until I have had a chance to talk to them since they're much closer to it | 14:28 |
| shintaro | thank you aprice | 14:29 |
| jamesmcarthur | Sorry. Finally stopped. Yeah there was a lot of debate at the forum whether Monday-Tuesday would be better or We’d-Thur | 14:29 |
| jamesmcarthur | Some folks thought it would be best to meet early in the week so they could deliver operator opinions to the projects ahead of their meeting | 14:30 |
| jamesmcarthur | Others thought it would be better to listen in to project goals and then discuss during operator meetings | 14:30 |
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| jamesmcarthur | We would love to hear a consensus from the Ops and then. We will do our best to try to make that happen | 14:31 |
| mihalis68 | sounds like a job for the meetups team :) | 14:32 |
| smcginnis | :) | 14:32 |
| mihalis68 | what should we do? email threads don't really connect | 14:32 |
| mihalis68 | maybe email and a poll? | 14:32 |
| mihalis68 | (ok now I'm starting to recall prior discussion of a poll, maybe I was already supposed to be polling them about PTG) | 14:32 |
| smcginnis | Or informal with the team here? Any preferences? | 14:32 |
| spotz | Polls are good:) | 14:32 |
| shintaro | mihalis68 that poll was meant to find out how many ops would attend ptg | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | we don't even have all the meetups team here, so I hardly think we can decide - no Van Winkle, no Hillsman, no McCormick | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | oh right, thanks for jogging my memory | 14:33 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, we need input from the whole team. | 14:34 |
| spotz | vw is finally back online and is catching up | 14:34 |
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| VW | oh hai! sorry -was cleaning out the inbox and didn't see the tie | 14:34 |
| VW | time | 14:34 |
| mihalis68 | we could expand it to "1. Are you interested in PTG 2. If so would you prefer ops focused days on days 1,2 or on days 3,4?" | 14:34 |
| spotz | :) | 14:35 |
| VW | love it | 14:35 |
| spotz | mihalis68: Just make sure they understand PTG is also Ops Meetup? | 14:35 |
| VW | actually, wait | 14:35 |
| shintaro | 1. Are you interested in OpsMeetup at PTG? isn't it? | 14:36 |
| mihalis68 | we'd have to preview any survey to make sure both the wording and the overall message is proper | 14:36 |
| VW | no no no. it's more do the want to attend the Ops meetup (TBD as days 1,2 or 3,4 above) or do they want to attend the PTG AND Ops mid-cycle | 14:36 |
| mihalis68 | the even in Denver is a done deal. It's both | 14:36 |
| spotz | But don't we want them to pick days to? | 14:36 |
| VW | argh -no - BOTH are there, but they are two events | 14:36 |
| VW | it is perfectly fine for someone to come for just two days of ops | 14:37 |
| VW | at least that is how I have understood it to date | 14:37 |
| spotz | vw correct | 14:37 |
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| VW | but to an underlying point in mihalis68's comments, we need to understand if cost is an issue blocking people from even coming to at least that | 14:38 |
| smcginnis | I think we do need to see which days work best for those that can't do the full week. | 14:38 |
| mihalis68 | the poll mentioned previously (and not yet done) was to ascertain ops community interest in the 5 days, in the 2 days | 14:38 |
| VW | totally agree | 14:38 |
| VW | awesome - that's a huge data point, mihalis68 | 14:38 |
| smcginnis | The ship has kind of sailed on whether they are interested in it being colocated. | 14:38 |
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| mihalis68 | yes that's a done deal for September | 14:39 |
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| VW | yeah - I'm not saying we ask about co-location. I'm curious if A. folks are coming and B. if they might do both and c. what blockers/misconceptions might be out there still | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xZWOcpvl/ | 14:40 |
| spotz | And I think add which days they would prefer as it sounds like we still might have the option to shift around | 14:40 |
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| smcginnis | spotz: ++ | 14:41 |
| mihalis68 | hope people can see my snippet there, it covers that | 14:41 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Yep, that looks good to me. | 14:42 |
| jamesmca_ | OK - just a heads up, the big thing is we're trying not to schedule Ops during Cross-Project discussions so Ops people that are there for the full time can attend those events. | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | cross-project is mostly during days 1,2 right? | 14:42 |
| spotz | #link https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xZWOcpvl/ | 14:42 |
| spotz | just to get that logged right | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | thanks! | 14:42 |
| jamesmca_ | The schedule is not yet fully formed, so we're looking for an Ops preference on days, but none of the days are guaranteed until we see how that matches up with the rest of hte schedule. | 14:42 |
| kendallwaters | most likely cross-projects stuff will be day 1 & 2 but that is not set in stone yet | 14:43 |
| kendallwaters | we are doing a lot of schedule build and space allocation this week | 14:43 |
| jamesmca_ | That said, the sooner we can get the schedule together and communicate it to all the communities, the better it will be for folks planning travel. | 14:43 |
| spotz | If I remember part of the talks in that one session was the need to have the first day atleast all ops to get things off their chest? | 14:43 |
| spotz | In which case overlap on cross-project day wouldn't be awful | 14:43 |
| mihalis68 | this got summarised as the need to "vent" or something like that | 14:44 |
| mihalis68 | I no longer feel that as an operator I need to do that | 14:44 |
| spotz | yeah, nicer way of wording:) | 14:44 |
| spotz | I know things have come a long way since my first deployment | 14:45 |
| mihalis68 | I think many things that used to be an issue that ops felt they needed to raise are now conversations - long-term support, release cadence, deletion of docs "too soon" etc | 14:45 |
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| mihalis68 | anyway, should I put a poll together as above? | 14:45 |
| mihalis68 | if someone really wants to do it, that'd be great, but if not I'm willing to | 14:45 |
| spotz | mihalis68: I say go for it | 14:46 |
| jamesmca_ | I almost think it's best for this meetup group decided. | 14:46 |
| jamesmca_ | Most people just want to know when to book travel. | 14:46 |
| jamesmca_ | Personally, I think y'all would be best for Ops to plan Wed for venting, Thur-Fri for meetings. (or just Thursday) | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | we don't even have half the meetups team here today, no way can this be "just decide"d | 14:47 |
| jamesmca_ | That would jive w/ cross-project work and would allow Ops in attendance to hit those days | 14:47 |
| jamesmca_ | (sorry - I'm having a terrible time typing today) | 14:48 |
| spotz | jamesmca_: Just go get breakfast at Torchey's?:) | 14:48 |
| jamesmca_ | mihalis68: understood. I was thinking maybe a vote/discussion by email | 14:48 |
| jamesmca_ | spotz: that might be in order | 14:48 |
| mihalis68 | I'll put it to the community. If there's no response, the ops meetups team can certainly do its best to decide a good itinerary working with the foundation | 14:49 |
| spotz | Just give it a deadline for responding | 14:49 |
| mihalis68 | yeah. I understand we can't delay on this but there was quite good backing for at least trying to get input on the PTG, from the ops community, last time this team met | 14:49 |
| shintaro | +1 mihalis68 sending out the poll would raise awareness to the ops community about the event, too. | 14:50 |
| mihalis68 | and, again, I'm not planning an event to start with "venting". We didn't do that in tokyo or mexico city | 14:50 |
| shintaro | I don't think we need "venting" either. we need specific topic to discuss which is more productive | 14:51 |
| smcginnis | That might set the wrong tone. At least if it is positioned as that. | 14:51 |
| smcginnis | shintaro: ++ | 14:51 |
| mihalis68 | yeah. think we're good for now. I'll do a poll and we'll see if we can get a response. If not this team will work with foundation to try to make the ops part of PTG as good as possible. It's all we can do and as a first attempt we expect to learn adn improve for a followup | 14:52 |
| mihalis68 | only 7 mintes left, so if I may... | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | #topic possible regional meetup | 14:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "possible regional meetup (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)" | 14:53 | |
| mihalis68 | i've been researching the possibility of using Bloomberg facilities for a smaller regional ops meetup, after PTG | 14:53 |
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| mihalis68 | It may be possible for us to host something for NE USA | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | it's not easy to arrange any random event due to strict guidelines | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | however from my research, ops meetups fit entirely within them! | 14:54 |
| spotz | sweet | 14:54 |
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| mihalis68 | so I just wanted to mention this and see if there might be interest | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | as a reminder, openstack days east stopped happening | 14:54 |
| smcginnis | That might be great. | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | that was our regional event for a bit | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | I think the multi--purpose room is 70 people | 14:55 |
| mihalis68 | so it couldn't meet the guidelines for a global event where we expect 100-150 capacity | 14:55 |
| smcginnis | Single room so one track? | 14:55 |
| mihalis68 | might be able to get a much smaller second room | 14:55 |
| mihalis68 | but only one full AV-wired "keynote" style room | 14:55 |
| spotz | Or if done right depending on the setup you could put different subject in corners? | 14:56 |
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| mihalis68 | yes, although I don't think we can reconfigure it to anything other than cinema style seating (everyone facing the screen) | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | there are other more reconfigurable smaller rooms | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | it all depends on : if there's interest I can look into it and if I book far enough ahead maybe even get our events staff to helpp | 14:57 |
| mihalis68 | *help | 14:57 |
| mihalis68 | if there's interest, speak up or email me or ... smoke signals | 14:58 |
| mihalis68 | #topic any other business | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: ops-meetup-team)" | 14:58 | |
| mihalis68 | 2 minutes left! | 14:58 |
| aprice | mihalis68: would this meetup be between the ptg and the forum? | 14:58 |
| aprice | and would it be for folks local to that city? | 14:58 |
| mihalis68 | unknown at present | 14:58 |
| mihalis68 | My tentative idea is a NE USA meetup | 14:59 |
| aprice | we have gotten feedback on too many events / too much travel so I want to take that into consideration before asking ops folks to attend another event. | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | there's people I know in DC area, for ecample | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | DC->NYC is just a train ride, so it's not the super expensive globetrotting that following summits and Ops midcycles has been, at least not for people in the region | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | the next ops meetup was going to be in NE USA before it merged into PTG and moved to Denver | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | mnaser: If interested... ^ | 15:01 |
| spotz | Maybe check with the OpenStack Ambassadors, maybe do a combined meeting day? | 15:01 |
| mihalis68 | as mentioned above, I am saying upfront that it wouldn't be a global event | 15:01 |
| * mnaser reads buffer | 15:01 | |
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| aprice | i understand, but I do want to encourage as many ops to attend the PTG and Forum if possible, but would love community feedback as well. | 15:01 |
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| smcginnis | I think a smaller regional event would be useful in that area. But knowing the PTG/Ops meetup is the "big event"/ | 15:02 |
| mihalis68 | yep. | 15:02 |
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| mnaser | as an operator, traveling all the way out to just meet with other ops is expensive. colocating it is very useful | 15:02 |
| shintaro | agree. regional ops meetup works well for us | 15:02 |
| mihalis68 | out of time | 15:02 |
| mihalis68 | thanks everyone | 15:02 |
| smcginnis | Thanks! | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | #endmeeting | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of topics related to operating Openstack infrastructures at scale | Mailing list: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators | Logs: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/" | 15:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 19 15:03:08 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2018/ops_meetup_team.2018-06-19-14.05.html | 15:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2018/ops_meetup_team.2018-06-19-14.05.txt | 15:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2018/ops_meetup_team.2018-06-19-14.05.log.html | 15:03 |
| shintaro | thank you mihalis68 | 15:03 |
| VW | should we make a point to reconvene next week since there is still lots to figure out | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | works for me | 15:03 |
| mnaser | i'll try to attend the next one. is there a meeting name under eavesdrop.openstack.org ? | 15:03 |
| smcginnis | VW: That might be good. We dropped back to ever other due to not having much, but I think right now we may want to go back to weekly until this is finalized. | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | mnaser: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#OpenStack_Ops_Meetup_Team | 15:04 |
| mnaser | smcginnis: thank you | 15:04 |
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| mihalis68 | I did calendar invites for the actual meetups team for today. Will update them to show next week on your calendars | 15:04 |
| spotz | If I forget just ping me, I'm now in this channel fulltime:) | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | mnaser: Would be great if you could attend. Would love to have your input on some of these too since you have visibility on both sides too. | 15:04 |
| shintaro | I can't attend next week/ or will be late. | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | Note: all action items go to shintaro next week. :) | 15:05 |
| mihalis68 | perfect | 15:05 |
| shintaro | oops | 15:05 |
| mnaser | smcginnis: i've never attended an ops meet up because it's quite expensive in general | 15:06 |
| mnaser | in terms of travel cost, etc | 15:06 |
| VW | mihalis68: mvanwinkle@salesforce.com | 15:06 |
| smcginnis | mnaser: They can be valuable I think. But probably not if you need to take a week away from work and travel half way around the world for it. | 15:09 |
| mihalis68 | mnaser: we rotate them around the world to try and make one fairly near each regional community within every 3 events. North America, APAC, Europe are the three rotating target zones | 15:11 |
| smcginnis | mnaser: Anyway, just thinking NY might be easier for you if it's an option. | 15:12 |
| mnaser | NY is easier, but i have to run to another meeting | 15:13 |
| shintaro | Also regional ones are useful for people to understand how the event is valuable and would encourage some of the attendees to consider attending the global one | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | ++ | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | And different flavors to them too. It was kind of interesting having the NFV focus in Tokyo. | 15:13 |
| shintaro | Yes I liked that one too | 15:14 |
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