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| aakso | shewless, enabling rootwrapd will probably help somewhat. then make sure you are using native interface for both ovsdb and openflow. finally upgrading neutron might also help as they have been switching to native netlink interface versus running iproute2 commands | 07:13 |
|---|---|---|
| aakso | there were also inefficient code in iproute2 so upgrading that can help if touching to neutron is not possible | 07:15 |
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| aakso | the performance is a very much "it depends" -question | 07:20 |
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| shewless | aakso: can you recommend any good documentation on enabling rootwrapd for mitaka? I see the options in nova.conf (enable_rootwrap_daemon) but I'm not sure if there is more to it than just enabling that option | 12:43 |
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| mriedem | if anyone cares about seeing flavors have a description field on them, there is debate happening in -nova right now | 13:59 |
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| mriedem | about whether we should add a description field to flavor, or just allow flavor.name to be the description and be mutable | 13:59 |
| mihalis68 | anyone around for the ops meetups team meeting? | 14:00 |
| shintaro | o/ | 14:00 |
| mihalis68 | o/ | 14:01 |
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| mihalis68 | #startmeeting Ops Meetup Team | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 3 14:02:21 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mihalis68. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ops_meetup_team' | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | agenda and sign-in sheet. Please add your name to attendees if you're here for this meeting | 14:03 |
| mihalis68 | #topic review last week's action | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review last week's action (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:03 | |
| mihalis68 | actions | 14:03 |
| mihalis68 | I had a few actions and failed on most. | 14:03 |
| shintaro | mrhillsman started email thread about support from Foundation. | 14:04 |
| mihalis68 | For the session on openstack LTS releases I did contact a person I know at redhat and they would attend | 14:04 |
| mihalis68 | does anyone if that session was accepted? | 14:04 |
| shintaro | I will be there | 14:04 |
| mihalis68 | for the openstack operators guide (being converted to the wiki) I received a trial conversion from my contractor but have not yet uploaded it | 14:05 |
| mihalis68 | that is also a proposed session | 14:05 |
| mihalis68 | or perhaps the voting process is not complete? i don't know how that works, sorry | 14:06 |
| smcginnis | I think it's still in process. | 14:06 |
| mihalis68 | if the LTS session proceeds I can send a representative from Bloomberg, same for operators guide | 14:06 |
| mihalis68 | thanks Sean | 14:06 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Given how much the topic of an LTS has been coming up, I'm pretty sure that session has a high chance of acceptance. | 14:07 |
| mihalis68 | I would definitely hope so! | 14:07 |
| emccormick | hey guys. Sorry for being tardy. | 14:07 |
| mihalis68 | no worries | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | I was just recounting the poor progress I made on actions | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | well, on some. | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | forgot to remind everyone about this meeting! | 14:08 |
| shintaro | Wiki says draft Forum schedule will be open on 9th Oct | 14:08 |
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| emccormick | re: the session, all are still unreviewed. | 14:08 |
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| VW_ | hey folks - sorry I'm late | 14:09 |
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| mihalis68 | erik for operators guide wiki I have a better conversion in my inbox awaiting for review. For the LTS thing I have a contact in redhead who says they would represent, shintaro will attend, I can send someone. I will try and drum up a canonical contact (jill rouleau maybe>) | 14:09 |
| mihalis68 | hi VW thanks for being here! | 14:09 |
| mihalis68 | redHAT, thanks autocorrect you dimwit! | 14:09 |
| mihalis68 | I also didn't yet email _med to get an update on whether he will run for UC. | 14:10 |
| emccormick | nice | 14:10 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 still to email _med re: UC | 14:10 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to get the operators guide wiki pages updated | 14:10 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to propose article on LTS to SuperUser | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to get Canonical comment on LTS session/representing | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | Phew. | 14:11 |
| emccormick | Hope they give that one a big room ;) | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | any other comments on actions from last week? | 14:11 |
| emccormick | I did lots of nagging as directed. | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | my boss's boss is backing the superuser article, so that's good | 14:11 |
| emccormick | got someone to take on the Ceph session | 14:12 |
| emccormick | have a body to help run the fast-forward upgrade session | 14:12 |
| emccormick | although it sounds like I'm still going to end up running it. | 14:12 |
| emccormick | So we, as a group, have 5 session in the hopper. | 14:13 |
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| emccormick | Nova team covered some of the things that we wanted so I let them propose them. | 14:13 |
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| mihalis68 | ah very nice | 14:13 |
| emccormick | and there's 3 NFV sessions already so I left that to others | 14:13 |
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| mihalis68 | smcginnis is Huawei able to represent at that session? That was an action on you last week I believe | 14:15 |
| mihalis68 | #topic planning for Sydney | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "planning for Sydney (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:15 | |
| mihalis68 | I guess we really discussed this pretty well already? | 14:16 |
| shintaro | yes | 14:16 |
| VW | looks like it | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | One very important thing I alluded to last week... no plans for an operators social event? | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | I mean, folks? What? | 14:16 |
| emccormick | hmm | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | it's a short event, easy to lose your chance if people all accept random vendor invites | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | (assuming there are still such things by then) | 14:17 |
| shintaro | right | 14:17 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Sorry, had to step away. Yes, I can make sure someone from Huawei is there. Even if that ends up being just me to relay back some things. | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | erik you credit me with always leading the charge here, well, can't this time :| | 14:17 |
| emccormick | I hadn't thought about it. Is there a community event this time? | 14:17 |
| emccormick | I know there was supposed to be | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | ok cool, thanks smcginnis | 14:17 |
| shintaro | Boothcrawl on Monday | 14:18 |
| mihalis68 | I think that's up to you attendees | 14:18 |
| mihalis68 | wish I was going | 14:18 |
| shintaro | Melbourne cup on tuesday? | 14:18 |
| emccormick | there was something about the Melbourne Cup or something | 14:18 |
| smcginnis | :) | 14:18 |
| emccormick | yeah is that happening? | 14:18 |
| emccormick | info is lacking ;) | 14:18 |
| VW | last I heard there would probably be no Stack c | 14:18 |
| VW | Stack City | 14:18 |
| VW | only the booth thing Monday evening | 14:18 |
| emccormick | hrmph | 14:19 |
| VW | as far as summit-wide things | 14:19 |
| mihalis68 | could make this a low-complexity idea by just having a Avengers Unite... operators meet up within booth crawl | 14:19 |
| emccormick | Well it's a little late to drum up a sponsor and pick up a venue, but I guess I can shop around and propose a happy hour somewhere. | 14:19 |
| mihalis68 | social secretary volunteer who is attending? | 14:20 |
| emccormick | expo hall is a zoo. | 14:20 |
| smcginnis | Even if it's not sponsored, might be nice to have a time to just join up for socializing somewhere outside the expo hall. | 14:20 |
| mihalis68 | you can pull off to one side there's normally space somewhere | 14:20 |
| mihalis68 | I was just thinking everyone could go score a nice cold beer from a booth and then after a few minutes head on over to a side area where there's space e.g. sometimes the theatre isn't busy during the crawl | 14:21 |
| smcginnis | Not a bad idea. | 14:21 |
| shintaro | We don't have a booth so I will be free during the crawl | 14:21 |
| emccormick | seems fine to me. | 14:22 |
| mihalis68 | I put this idea on the agenda | 14:23 |
| mihalis68 | anything else for sydney? | 14:23 |
| emccormick | Maybe we could set up a SYD-Ops-booze etherpad and tell people to post if they're going to a place and want company ;) | 14:23 |
| shintaro | +1 | 14:23 |
| emccormick | sort of worked in MEX | 14:23 |
| mihalis68 | #action emccormick to make an ether pad for social event planning for sydney for OS ops | 14:23 |
| mihalis68 | well volunteered erik :) | 14:24 |
| VW | we do have a session for this group right - that I'm going to moderate? | 14:24 |
| emccormick | wheee | 14:24 |
| mihalis68 | a catch-up yes | 14:24 |
| emccormick | yes | 14:24 |
| VW | just double checking what all I signed up for :) | 14:24 |
| emccormick | well it's on the request list anyway | 14:24 |
| mihalis68 | that's more laptops and ether pads, less beer | 14:24 |
| VW | cool | 14:24 |
| mihalis68 | normally | 14:24 |
| emccormick | well, the first one in Barcelona turned into me getting back to my hotel at 3am so... | 14:24 |
| mihalis68 | #topic 2018 meetup #1 Tokyo | 14:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "2018 meetup #1 Tokyo (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:25 | |
| mihalis68 | shintaro has provided some updates on the agenda already | 14:25 |
| shintaro | I wrote some update on etherpad | 14:25 |
| mihalis68 | the dialog is underway between Ops Meetups team and the foundation | 14:25 |
| mihalis68 | mrhillsman emphasized that he thinks themed events work better | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | I know we discussed a Telecom track for Tokyo | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | although I think that should be up to the hosting org each time, personally | 14:26 |
| shintaro | yes, I have updated the agenda planning etherpad too | 14:26 |
| shintaro | including themed track | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | oh great | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | perhaps we can ask the Foundation to highlight this event specifically with the track? | 14:27 |
| mihalis68 | we don't have anyone from the foundation here at these meetings any more | 14:27 |
| shintaro | mrhillsman was thinking OpenDevConf as an model for themed track | 14:28 |
| mihalis68 | shintaro do you want to contact Lauren to discuss the foundation starting to publicize your meet up? | 14:28 |
| emccormick | That seemed like a much bigger and better funded event than what we usually manage to pull off | 14:28 |
| mihalis68 | did you go emc? | 14:28 |
| shintaro | yes I will. | 14:28 |
| smcginnis | I do know the foundation is concerned about getting overloaded with running too many conferences. But I think with the success if OpenDev, if they can piggy back on this event, that might help things. | 14:29 |
| emccormick | IF we get 50 or 60 people again it kind of nukes the whole multi-track idea. Hopefully that's not the case | 14:29 |
| mihalis68 | #action shintaro to contact openstack foundation events staff (Lauren Sell) to start publicizing Tokyo meet up, especially Telecom track | 14:29 |
| emccormick | I did not | 14:29 |
| emccormick | I watched everyone's tweets jealously though. | 14:29 |
| mihalis68 | Can someone who attended or knows about OpenDevConf explain what we're missing that they had? Or what they did well that we do not? | 14:29 |
| smcginnis | Hype? | 14:30 |
| emccormick | I never heard about it until everyone was there. Not sure how I missed the hype. | 14:30 |
| shintaro | the theme was Edge computing and was kind of hype, but good thing was the Foundation managed to get people from different organizations and also had dev people there | 14:30 |
| smcginnis | Well, not hype about the event, but hype about this cool new things called "edge computing". :) | 14:30 |
| emccormick | ah. A hook | 14:31 |
| emccormick | ;) | 14:31 |
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| mihalis68 | mrhillsman did attend OpenDevConf but is sadly not here today | 14:32 |
| shintaro | Micheal Still from Nova lead the main architecture session which gave a kick to the whole event | 14:32 |
| mihalis68 | I can hardly give him an action to explain that in hi absence | 14:32 |
| smcginnis | ETSI did an NFV event in parallel in Denver. I wonder if we are going to have a telecom track if it would make sense to contact someone with that org and get something going with them too. | 14:32 |
| smcginnis | Another community to reach out to | 14:32 |
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| emccormick | They proposed a session for the forum | 14:32 |
| smcginnis | OK, good. | 14:32 |
| mihalis68 | I think that' s a very good idea | 14:32 |
| emccormick | Action Shintaro to attend and prod them about Tokyo | 14:33 |
| shintaro | I will :) | 14:33 |
| smcginnis | They were more dev focused in Denver, but I would think they could have some good operator subjects. | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | the Ops Meetups idea shouldn't be some kind of private community, we're ops, we do it all, we should partner up with groups that can make these events zing | 14:33 |
| smcginnis | ++ | 14:33 |
| VW | yep | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | #action shintaro to reach out to ETSI about partnering for Telecom Track in Tokyo mid-cycle | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | ok good | 14:34 |
| mihalis68 | any more about Tokyo? | 14:34 |
| mihalis68 | again at risk of repeating myself is there an Ops social event? | 14:34 |
| mihalis68 | I find Tokyo intimidating | 14:34 |
| mihalis68 | I'm not going to venture out very far solo | 14:34 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: It's a very safe place. But huge. :) | 14:35 |
| mihalis68 | yeah, I'm apprehensive about getting totally lost, not dying! | 14:35 |
| mihalis68 | I did go once, for the summit there a couple of years ago | 14:35 |
| mihalis68 | I'll make myself the unelected social secretary here unless there is a volunteer? | 14:35 |
| mihalis68 | Someone who you know speaks japanese? | 14:35 |
| emccormick | I spent a week wandering around before the summit. Once you get used to the trains it's a piece of cake ;) | 14:36 |
| shintaro | social event in Tokyo? yes planning but may need a sponsor | 14:36 |
| smcginnis | emccormick: ++ Love the train system. | 14:36 |
| mihalis68 | +1 | 14:36 |
| emccormick | I had a JR pass. Totally worth it | 14:36 |
| mihalis68 | when we (the bloomberg attendees) were about to get the wrong train, station staff RAN to tell us | 14:36 |
| shintaro | if you have google with you, youre fine | 14:36 |
| emccormick | yeah they are super helpful. And yes google ftw. | 14:37 |
| smcginnis | shintaro: Love that Google Maps will tell you exactly how many stops to go. | 14:37 |
| mihalis68 | shintaro if someone else plans the social with some lead time, I might try to persuade Bloomberg to contribute to sponsoring that | 14:37 |
| smcginnis | And people go way out of their way to help if needed. | 14:37 |
| shintaro | subway and train system is so complicated that we use google to finde the right path | 14:37 |
| mihalis68 | I mean I will try, but I might be able to get that to happen | 14:37 |
| mihalis68 | any more discussion for Tokyo for today? | 14:38 |
| shintaro | thanks mihalis68 I will let you informed about the evening event | 14:38 |
| mihalis68 | Cool, thanks | 14:38 |
| mihalis68 | #topic Operators Guide | 14:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Operators Guide (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:38 | |
| mihalis68 | briefly some real work happened on this, I am due to review and then re-upload pages to the openstack wiki and then launch it with the community | 14:39 |
| mihalis68 | who would like to get email when there's something to actually work on there? | 14:39 |
| mihalis68 | for anyone who doesn't know, it's transitioning from part of the openstack official docs to a wiki but still on the openstack site | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | it was just complex to get the markdown out of the normal openstack documentation files | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | Was hoping for "beta testers" for it before I mail the operators mailing list | 14:40 |
| emccormick | oo just looked at the map. Didn't realize this was down near where the summit was. I found a decent brewery down there. | 14:41 |
| emccormick | o/ | 14:41 |
| emccormick | loop me in of course :) | 14:41 |
| mihalis68 | ok. brewery in Sydney? Tokyo? | 14:41 |
| emccormick | TYO | 14:41 |
| mihalis68 | oh nice. | 14:41 |
| emccormick | now all I have to do is check my Untappd to remember what it was | 14:42 |
| shintaro | remember the name of the place? | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | I messed up in tokyo, I went to dinner with the Astara folks (remember that project) and had a bad local curry around the corner from my hotel | 14:42 |
| emccormick | looking now shintaro. | 14:42 |
| shintaro | email me if you find it. I can include it to the list :) | 14:43 |
| smcginnis | emccormick: We had an outing here if it happens to be the same you're thinking of: https://goo.gl/maps/oLMoezAzmur | 14:44 |
| zioproto | hello all, there is a meeting going on ? | 14:44 |
| mihalis68 | yes we are nearly done I think. Nice to see you here | 14:44 |
| mihalis68 | #topic SuperUser articles | 14:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SuperUser articles (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:44 | |
| mihalis68 | last week we saw a nice one featuring NTT (link in agenda) | 14:44 |
| mihalis68 | the mexico city one is on hold indefinitely, I haven't heard from Gloria since the second earthquake | 14:44 |
| shintaro | smcginnis that place is a nice place! | 14:45 |
| mihalis68 | but I did propose bloomberg submitting a proposal about the docs and the LTS discussion (which we got into in Mexico) | 14:45 |
| emccormick | T.Y. Harbor Brewery | 14:45 |
| mihalis68 | I'm due to throw this together this week. The aim is to publicize the LTS meeting in Sydney | 14:45 |
| smcginnis | shintaro: I enjoyed it. :) | 14:45 |
| emccormick | https://www.tysons.jp/tyharbor/ | 14:46 |
| emccormick | yep | 14:46 |
| shintaro | ah same place ) | 14:46 |
| mihalis68 | that looks perfect for an Operators social | 14:46 |
| mihalis68 | I'm hoping to be able to say in the article that NTT, RedHat, Canonical, Huawei will attend the LTS discussion | 14:47 |
| emccormick | I sat out by the water and drank alone. It was rather peaceful. Boring but peaceful. ;) | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | kind of makes it a fairly big deal | 14:47 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Good way to motivate them all to show up. ;) | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | emc not all operators events can have Flamenco, free beer and Boris! | 14:48 |
| mihalis68 | if there is anyone else here today that thinks their org could agree to attend a meeting on the topic of OpenStack official support for LTS releases, please speak up or let me know? | 14:48 |
| mihalis68 | meeting is a forum session in sydney | 14:49 |
| emccormick | *chirp chirp* | 14:50 |
| emccormick | Anyone know Suse people? | 14:51 |
| mihalis68 | William V? | 14:51 |
| emccormick | I just know the MEX folks, and they have no power in dev. | 14:51 |
| emccormick | I can ask if he knows someone | 14:51 |
| mriedem | allison price is who you'd ask from suse | 14:51 |
| mihalis68 | #emccormick to ask SuSe (William Vera) about SuSe representing at the LTS Forum session | 14:52 |
| mihalis68 | ah ok | 14:52 |
| mihalis68 | anyone know her? | 14:52 |
| emccormick | Oo I thought she was 100% foundation. Neat | 14:52 |
| mihalis68 | I've been introduced, but that's it | 14:52 |
| emccormick | only by name | 14:52 |
| mriedem | formerly HPE, now suse | 14:52 |
| mriedem | working on fast forward upgrades for suse | 14:52 |
| mihalis68 | mriedem would you be able to reach out? | 14:52 |
| mriedem | i don't really have skin in this game | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | or do you just happen to know of her work but not know her? | 14:53 |
| mriedem | so you don't want me owning that | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | ok then | 14:53 |
| mriedem | we're not pals | 14:53 |
| emccormick | She ran registration for our Philly meetup | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | I guess I can reach out then | 14:53 |
| emccormick | according to my emails. | 14:53 |
| shintaro | I can reach out. | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to reach out to Allison Price re: SuSe at LTS forum session | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | ah ok you take it | 14:54 |
| shintaro | Allison from the foundation, right? | 14:54 |
| emccormick | mriedem Thanks for the info! | 14:54 |
| mriedem | she's not foundation, she was on the board at one time | 14:54 |
| emccormick | wonder if her email still forwards. | 14:55 |
| emccormick | oh it must | 14:55 |
| mihalis68 | linked still says marketing manager for openstack | 14:55 |
| emccormick | she sent an email re: sydney | 14:55 |
| mihalis68 | 14:55 | |
| mriedem | ha, guess what everyone, | 14:55 |
| mriedem | i screwed up the name, | 14:55 |
| mriedem | allison randal is suse :) | 14:55 |
| mriedem | allison price is foundation :) | 14:55 |
| mriedem | marketing | 14:55 |
| mriedem | sorry! | 14:55 |
| mihalis68 | oh boy | 14:55 |
| mriedem | undo all the things | 14:55 |
| shintaro | ok wrong person | 14:56 |
| emccormick | Would have been fun to confuse the heck out of Allison Price though ;) | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | #shintaro to reach out to Alison Randal (SuSe) | 14:56 |
| smcginnis | mriedem: Thought that didn't seem right. :) | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | I mean A.P. in Vancouver | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | but we do mean to contact a SuSe person in this case | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | 4 minutes left | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | #topic future meetings | 14:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "future meetings (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:56 | |
| emccormick | haha she has her own Wikipedia page | 14:56 |
| emccormick | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Randal | 14:56 |
| mihalis68 | did anyone find out why there's a rumor of a meet up in the NE USA before end of year? | 14:57 |
| emccormick | Now I want one | 14:57 |
| mihalis68 | I did suggest it, but then someone said that it seems to be already being planned, possibly Verizon? | 14:57 |
| mrhillsman | btw, I am waiting to hear back from foundation on logistics | 14:57 |
| mihalis68 | operators local meetup | 14:57 |
| mihalis68 | hi mrhillsman | 14:57 |
| mihalis68 | could you share (maybe next week) what OpenDevConf has or did that we need to learn from? | 14:58 |
| mrhillsman | I can ask Amrith about that | 14:58 |
| mrhillsman | Sure | 14:58 |
| mrhillsman | Basically our previous discussion about themes relevant to region | 14:58 |
| mihalis68 | #action mrhillsman to share insight into strengths of OpenDevConf | 14:58 |
| mrhillsman | But I can prepare more sensible discussion | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | yeah I mentioned themed track earlier. Shintaro is doing one for Tokyo and will contact foundation to get that publicized early | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | 1 minute left | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | no news on regional operators meet up in NE before end of year? | 14:59 |
| mrhillsman | Cool, I discussed with him as well, sounds great | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | so weird | 14:59 |
| mrhillsman | idk about that | 14:59 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Wish I could remember who said that to me. | 14:59 |
| mrhillsman | I heard next year | 14:59 |
| mihalis68 | at one of these meetings someone said Bloomberg was involved! | 14:59 |
| mrhillsman | It was Amrith iirc | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | ok out of time | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | is he a colleague? | 15:00 |
| mrhillsman | Verizon guy I believe | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | if someone can chase info on that, would be appreiated | 15:00 |
| mrhillsman | I'll ping him | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | any more? | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | thanks mrhillsman | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | and thanks to you al | 15:00 |
| mrhillsman | Welcome | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | all | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | see you next week | 15:00 |
| shintaro | thank you | 15:00 |
| mrhillsman | Thanks for your diligence Chris | 15:00 |
| mihalis68 | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of topics related to operating Openstack infrastructures at scale | Mailing list: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators | Logs: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 3 15:01:06 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2017/ops_meetup_team.2017-10-03-14.02.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2017/ops_meetup_team.2017-10-03-14.02.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2017/ops_meetup_team.2017-10-03-14.02.log.html | 15:01 |
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| mihalis68 | I didn't want to burden the official meeting with this, but the reason I dropped half my actions is we just retired a VM type and I've been chasing hundreds of owners. We will soon be 100% ceph backed VMs on openstack, and soon should be able to live migrate any VM at will | 15:03 |
| mihalis68 | pretty psyched | 15:04 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Nice! | 15:05 |
| mihalis68 | yeah right | 15:05 |
| mihalis68 | we're moving CPU type to KVM64 so that we don't get bit by platform differences | 15:05 |
| mihalis68 | (previously we had some xeon v4 capacity joined and then when it had a systematic processor fault could only move to like machines, oops!) | 15:06 |
| *** Oku_OS is now known as Oku_OS-away | 15:06 | |
| mriedem | i've got a question for some ops while people are here listening | 15:08 |
| mihalis68 | any more followups on todays stuff, anything at all, feel free to email me folks | 15:08 |
| mihalis68 | go ahead mriedem | 15:08 |
| mriedem | what is the majority config people usually do for cloud-init behavior with refreshing guest information on reboot? | 15:09 |
| mriedem | there is this thread in the ML about updating keypairs within a nova instance | 15:09 |
| mriedem | and part of that depends on how cloud-init is configured, because if refreshes on guest reboot, we can just update the keyname in the instance and it will get updated on reboot of the guest, otherwise you have to rebuild the instance | 15:09 |
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| mihalis68 | we manage keys separately from cloud-init. We put a script on a VM at launch that periodically goes and gets the users for the VM | 15:10 |
| mihalis68 | actually we put that script in the image | 15:10 |
| mihalis68 | we tell people to use our curated images, so we get to put stuff in each VM | 15:11 |
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| mriedem | alright, so you're not really the person i should be asking then :) | 15:12 |
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| mriedem | so is your script pulling something out of openstack for keypairs for the guest, or some other key store? | 15:13 |
| mihalis68 | we've got our own internal non-openstack key management solution. I figured maybe my answer wouldn't help. Oh well :| | 15:16 |
| mriedem | if only there were other operators in the operators channel | 15:17 |
| mihalis68 | I imagine they're all firefighting production emergencies. | 15:18 |
| zioproto | mihalis68: I read now the meetings log | 15:20 |
| mihalis68 | hope all well with you | 15:20 |
| zioproto | mihalis68: I will also be in Sydney, and I am really interested in the LTS topic | 15:20 |
| mihalis68 | Ok. It is already a proposed session, which smcginnis thinks is almost bound to be approved | 15:20 |
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| zioproto | emccormick: you are expert in running Cinder with different Volume types ? | 15:20 |
| mihalis68 | all we need to do is get the word out so that it's representative group at the session and then maybe this can start moving for real | 15:21 |
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| zioproto | mihalis68: ok ! | 15:31 |
| jproulx | mriedem: not sure if I'm any more help on key pairs. On the Openstack side we just do the "if you change keys you need to rebuild" thing but mostly we use our config management to keep the right keys in the right places (on OpenStack, physical systems and public cloud) so the cloud-init managed keys are only really used by packer for image building and occasionally for the occasional manual test environments | 15:32 |
| mriedem | i'm also hearing from infra users that they disable/delete cloud-init after first boot because they don't want to messing things up, like hostname, on reboot of the guest | 15:33 |
| mriedem | so that would be another case where you need to rebuild if you change the keypair that the instance is going to use | 15:34 |
| sdague | yeh | 15:35 |
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| jproulx | for "pet" type systems (anything that gets booted from a cinder volume) we also recommend removing cloud-init, for ephemeral images we do keep it around | 15:36 |
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| jproulx | though we don't recommend 'pets' we do still build a few :) | 15:37 |
| sdague | right, so with all those axes being true, I guess rebuild only is probably fine, as long as the keyname gets persisted into the server object after it | 15:37 |
| mriedem | sdague: yeah we already store the instance.key_name so we can change that during rebuild if we went that route | 15:40 |
| mriedem | so now it sounds like we're leaning toward https://review.openstack.org/#/c/375221/ | 15:40 |
| * penick perks up | 15:45 | |
| penick | @mriedem re updating keypairs.. I don't update them from outside nova. I use SSH CA to sign the keys, so that I never need to worry about them | 15:49 |
| emccormick | zioproto Hardly expert, but I have messed with some few different things. | 15:51 |
| emccormick | jproulx Wouldn't that make it also impossible to change an instance flavor? No cloud-init, No disk resize. | 15:53 |
| emccormick | although I guess if you know how to remove it, you can also put it back | 15:53 |
| emccormick | and mriedem I've run into the same issue a couple of times and definitely +1 the ability to change key on rebuild. | 15:55 |
| mriedem | emccormick: i think we're all in favor of being able to update the key on rebuild, the main question is if we tie that just into the rebuild API, or update the key as part of updating the server, and then the user has to either reboot or rebuild | 15:56 |
| mriedem | what i'm hearing is a lot of people disable/delete cloud-init after initial create, so reboot won't refresh the new key | 15:57 |
| mriedem | so yo'ud have to rebuild anyway | 15:57 |
| mriedem | we have two nova specs proposed for each one | 15:57 |
| jproulx | emccormick: cloud-init removal is on boot-from-volume instances so root volume is independent of instance type in this particular and limited case | 16:00 |
| jproulx | in the general case we keep cloud-init | 16:01 |
| mnaser | mriedem ill jump in and say i feel like if you implement it without a rebuild, it will likely be largely unused because of the heavy dependency for tooling in the vm | 16:02 |
| mnaser | an example of this is set_admin_password and most images in my experience dont run qemu-guest-agent | 16:02 |
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| mnaser | in general i feel like we operate under the assumption that once nova hands you the vm, it doesn't touch the state of the os (obviously there's things like resize which do but nothing that touches configs/etc) | 16:03 |
| mriedem | mnaser: so you're advocating for just baking it into the rebuild action API itself, to optionally specify a new key_name during the rebuild | 16:05 |
| mriedem | right? | 16:05 |
| mriedem | and don't leave it to chance that reboot would work | 16:05 |
| mnaser | mriedem yes, that was something which was actually a big issue for customers a while back. they lose their private key and they have no choice than booting a new vm (which loses the ip, mac address, etc) | 16:05 |
| mnaser | so we'd teach them how to take down all neutron port info, delete the instance, create port manually, attach to new vm .. just for that | 16:06 |
| penick | So if a user decides to rebuild a vm, the flow would be: grab keypair off instance, define that keypair in nova, then issue rebuild and specify that key name? | 16:07 |
| mriedem | penick: just create new keypair with new name, and provide that new keyname during the rebuild action | 16:07 |
| mriedem | like how you can specify a different image or personality files during rebuild | 16:07 |
| penick | Will every rebuild thereafter use that same keyname, without needing it specified? | 16:08 |
| mriedem | yes | 16:08 |
| mriedem | keyname on rebuild is optional | 16:08 |
| mriedem | if not specified, it's whatever the instance is already using | 16:08 |
| penick | I'm gonna check on the keypair data model real quick.. I have a concern. | 16:09 |
| mnaser | well keypairs have always been tricky | 16:10 |
| mnaser | in that they dont have id's | 16:10 |
| mnaser | they are unique by name so thats a bit tricky | 16:10 |
| penick | That's one of my concerns. If a keypair is unique by name and user, does that mean the instance keypair is locked to a single user? I tend to have dozens of users in a tenant managing instances. So that'd be a problem. | 16:11 |
| emccormick | Funny there was just an ML message about deprecating personality files | 16:12 |
| penick | if keypairs aren't locked down by tenant, then in theory I could boot an instance and pass the same keypair name as another instance in a different tenant, then log in and now I have a copy of the keypair. Perfect for MITM attacks. | 16:12 |
| penick | Nearly all users in my environment would use the instance hostname for the keypair name, so it'd be easy to guess what keyname to pass during rebuild | 16:13 |
| emccormick | keypairs are per-=user | 16:13 |
| penick | k, so it's the first problem.. they'd need to be per tenant to work in a multi user environment | 16:14 |
| penick | (thanks) | 16:14 |
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| mriedem | correct keypairs are per user, and quota'ed that way | 16:37 |
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| mriedem | microversion 2.10 allows an admin to create a keypair for another user | 16:38 |
| mriedem | but they aren't shared across users in the same tenant | 16:38 |
| mriedem | schema.UniqueConstraint("user_id", "name", "deleted", | 16:38 |
| penick | I think that would seriously constrain the usefulness of this feature | 16:39 |
| mriedem | emccormick: are you yay or nay on deprecating personality files? | 16:40 |
| mriedem | because i hope it's yay | 16:40 |
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| jproulx | not having per project keys is a pain ... my group works around with config management as mentioned earlier but most other users of our cloud aren't that sophisticated (I mean they're only MIT CS gradstudents and research scientists...) | 16:56 |
| sdague | keypairs are all kinds of wonky in the model | 16:58 |
| jproulx | so if there's a proposal to make key per project optionally shared to a project/projects I'll all for that. AWS get this wrong too what I'd really like is to select multiple keys for the users who should have access | 16:58 |
| sdague | jproulx: that's not on the table at this point | 16:58 |
| jproulx | Thats' fine it's hardly top of my list. | 16:59 |
| sdague | honestly, I think if we were changing something around keypairs in that way it would be make it so key pair could reference a barbican artifact instead | 16:59 |
| jproulx | +1 | 16:59 |
| sdague | and nova stops doing keypair management | 16:59 |
| sdague | but... that's not being really proposed by anyone either | 16:59 |
| sdague | the only real question: should we even bother with specify new keypair on rebuild | 17:00 |
| sdague | or is the whole keypair management through nova so gorpy at this point, that it's not worth bothering as it doesn't make it really useful anyway | 17:00 |
| jproulx | well cloud-init which is a bit out of our hands expects a public key (possibly keys) in meta-data or configdrive since nova is still doing that it would need some knowlege of how to get it | 17:00 |
| * jproulx must run off... | 17:01 | |
| sdague | yeh, nova would still transfer it into metadata | 17:01 |
| sdague | but when we brought up the whole keypair update question, the infra team had a different concern, which was key rotation, where they wanted the same name to able to be referenced, but update the key contents so that new servers built get a new key | 17:02 |
| sdague | which totally also seems useful | 17:02 |
| sdague | but, in thinking that through more, I'd really hesitate in making all the key rotation bits first class in nova directly | 17:02 |
| sdague | vs. giving it a handle to some more polished keystore | 17:03 |
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| emccormick | mridem I don't care really | 17:28 |
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| emccormick | I've never had a need to use them personally | 17:28 |
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| penick | sdague: I agree that keypairs should be in barbican. Additional functionality like signing keys for sshca belong in barbican anyway. | 17:33 |
| sdague | penick: ok, so... melwitt originally said that the update keypair on rebuild use case would be helpful for yahoo/oath. Is that not actually true? | 17:34 |
| sdague | trying to sort through if enough folks would use this to make it worth changing anything | 17:34 |
| penick | It would help many of my users right now, but i'm moving everything to signed host certificates over the next year | 17:36 |
| melwitt | when I worked there, I was asked if we could pass new --userdata to rebuild (for the purpose of injecting new keys) as a feature they wanted. so maybe that's changed | 17:36 |
| penick | So she's correct, but i'm trying to obviate the problem with SSHCA | 17:36 |
| sdague | penick: ok, so by the time you'd get the code where it was implemented, it wouldn't be particularly useful to you | 17:38 |
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| penick | yep | 17:46 |
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| mriedem | well, | 19:06 |
| mriedem | keep in mind, | 19:06 |
| mriedem | anything nova adds today, penick is never getting on his juno cluster | 19:06 |
| mriedem | :) | 19:06 |
| mriedem | sdague: i think enough people have said that at least the new keypair on rebuild api is useful | 19:06 |
| mriedem | i know our customers are asking for that | 19:06 |
| mriedem | the thing that came up at the ptg and threw a wrench in the works was making it more generic so you could try and just reboot, and from all the discussions this morning with ops and users, it sounds like that's not very useful | 19:07 |
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| penick | mriedem for the record SIR, I will totes be on Ocata any day now. Anyyyy day now. | 19:16 |
| penick | Just you wait. | 19:16 |
| penick | In all seriousness, even though this feature wouldn't apply to me, keys would need to be scoped to tenants, and not just users. | 19:18 |
| sdague | yeh, the keys scoped to users thing is a goofy part of the data model from the before times that no one has looked at fixing | 19:18 |
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| penick | and if it's just blindly changed to being tenant scoped, then other users within a tenant could compromise someones user keys. | 19:23 |
| penick | It'd be better if instance keys were tenant scoped, and user keys weren't. Which is why it'd be better if this was all stored in barbican. Let barbican deal with deciding who has access to what. | 19:23 |
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| mriedem | is barbican required yet? | 19:30 |
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| sdague | I don't think yet, but it's getting close to that cusp | 19:36 |
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| catintheroof | hi guys, quick question, i know i can share a network with a specific project using RBAC since liberty, that works amazing, but what about if i want that an external network (router:external = True) is being seen or used ONLY by a single project, is that supported ? if so, how can i do it ? | 21:33 |
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