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| lvdombrk | folks, if there anyone who migrate instances between different openstack versions ? | 11:49 |
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| lvdombrk | folks, if there anyone who migrate instances between different openstack versions ? | 13:49 |
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| shintaro | hi | 14:00 |
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| mihalis68 | #startmeeting Ops Meetup Team | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 26 14:01:55 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mihalis68. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ops_meetup_team' | 14:02 |
| emccormickva | Good morning. | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team | 14:02 |
| shintaro | o/ | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | hello everyone | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | thanks for joining us | 14:02 |
| mihalis68 | #topic review actions from last week | 14:02 |
| shintaro | hi all | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review actions from last week (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:02 | |
| mihalis68 | I have no progress on my action (creating a digest of the material from mexico) | 14:02 |
| * smcginnis lurks | 14:03 | |
| mihalis68 | I was hoping to hear from the local team there, but for obvious reasons they have other things on their mind. | 14:03 |
| mihalis68 | Erik and I did check on their wellbeing via twitter and slack, have only heard limited responses but I know for example William is ok as he's already at a conference, and Alvaro responded he's ok | 14:03 |
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| mihalis68 | other actions are on the agenda. David (med_) gave himself a few | 14:04 |
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| mihalis68 | I don't think he's here | 14:04 |
| shintaro | good to hear they are okay | 14:04 |
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| shintaro | I hope mrhillsman has some update on Foundation support | 14:04 |
| mihalis68 | indeed. It feels very personal having just been there | 14:04 |
| mihalis68 | still making the agenda presentable | 14:05 |
| mihalis68 | I don't see mrhillsman here so can't hear about that just yet | 14:06 |
| mrhillsman | No update yet unfortunately but plan on having something next meeting | 14:06 |
| mrhillsman | I just finished 2 weeks of traveling | 14:06 |
| mihalis68 | seems like we have 3 attendees plus Sean hiding in the corner, Hi Sean! | 14:06 |
| mihalis68 | ah, hello mrhillsman, thanks for joining | 14:06 |
| mrhillsman | At home until Sydney unless something else comes up | 14:06 |
| mihalis68 | so one nice thing I'm sure people saw, Shintaro and colleagues appear in a SuperUser article | 14:07 |
| shintaro | :) thanks | 14:07 |
| mihalis68 | #link http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/openstack-operator-spotlight-ntt/ | 14:07 |
| mihalis68 | Seems like that is it for actions, unless/until David turns up | 14:08 |
| shintaro | Foundation is polling some operators for updates and we had online interview | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | #topic Sydney | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Sydney (Meeting topic: Ops Meetup Team)" | 14:08 | |
| mihalis68 | yes I was hoping to offer the material for an article about mexico to superuser editor | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | based on some questions I sent gloria | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | bad timing | 14:08 |
| mihalis68 | :| | 14:08 |
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| mihalis68 | Erik I think you volunteered to be chief troublemaker for Sydney. How is that going? | 14:09 |
| emccormickva | Well all I can really do is nag people about sessions. There's not a lot on the etherpad, and submissions are due this week | 14:09 |
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| emccormickva | I will put out a last call today and then see if I can convert them to abstracts | 14:09 |
| emccormickva | I'll at least get our Ops meetup session in there this morning | 14:10 |
| VW | hi folks | 14:10 |
| emccormickva | There's only 11 sessions proposed so far which is pretty darn light | 14:10 |
| mihalis68 | hi VW | 14:10 |
| smcginnis | Deadline for topic submission is this Friday. Any topics would be good. | 14:10 |
| mihalis68 | can someone post that link? | 14:10 |
| shintaro | I saw some similar proposal already exist in the Forum proposal, e.g. NFV | 14:11 |
| emccormickva | ours is https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SYD-ops-session-ideas | 14:11 |
| emccormickva | forum one is http://forumtopics.openstack.org/ | 14:11 |
| mihalis68 | Thanks! | 14:11 |
| smcginnis | emccormickva: They may be able to combine the two. Or if there is enough different to discuss, still have both. | 14:12 |
| smcginnis | Not sure on the number of open slots. | 14:12 |
| emccormickva | I might redo the metal -> containerized session from MEX as that drew a fair bit of interest. Maybe this will bring in a bigger crowd | 14:12 |
| mihalis68 | Bloomberg is sending a couple of people, one dev focused, one with a mix of ops and dev. I will see if the latter has anything he wants to talk about that's not on that list | 14:12 |
| mihalis68 | is that all there is to say about Sydney? | 14:13 |
| mihalis68 | not that I am going, but those who do might like to work out a time for an operators social gathering | 14:14 |
| emccormickva | Sort of on Sydney topic, I"ve found myself in posession of a 2BR apartment 0.2 miles from the conference and it's just me so far | 14:14 |
| mihalis68 | it's a short conference this time for some reasons. Only one keynotes day | 14:14 |
| emccormickva | if anyone needs a room and doesn't feel like paying $400 per night for a hotel room | 14:14 |
| emccormickva | Berlin is going to be 3 days also. Not sure why we're shortening the overseas ones. Vancouver is 4 | 14:14 |
| VW | Berlin you say | 14:15 |
| * VW missed that bit of data | 14:15 | |
| mihalis68 | YEAH! | 14:15 |
| mihalis68 | I came across that, forget where, probably twitter | 14:16 |
| emccormickva | Yep. Pretty stoked about that. I haven't been back there in a long time. | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | i have a friend in berlin. Will try to make the one | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | that one | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | sounds like Matt is interested :) | 14:16 |
| emccormickva | Like so long there was a wall there the last time. | 14:16 |
| mihalis68 | but you escaped the erik containment system? | 14:16 |
| VW | I am always interested mihalis68 - that's usually not the limiting factor ;) | 14:17 |
| mihalis68 | right | 14:17 |
| VW | anyway - sorry - juggling a few things this moring. I will be in Sydney, so is there anything I need to do on behalf of this group while I am thre | 14:17 |
| emccormickva | VW You wanna run our catchup session for this group at the forum? | 14:18 |
| VW | sure thing! | 14:18 |
| mihalis68 | grest | 14:18 |
| mihalis68 | great | 14:18 |
| mihalis68 | #agreed VW to run ops catch-up in Sydney | 14:19 |
| emccormickva | Cool. Might bug you to moderate something else too. We'll see how these sessions get picked up. If I submit them all, I don't want to end up moderating them all too ;) | 14:19 |
| emccormickva | shintaro Are you up for being a moderator of something also? | 14:19 |
| emccormickva | well, any of you really | 14:20 |
| shintaro | not yet so I can do some | 14:20 |
| VW | I can probably take more. I have to get one working group sessions scheduled and don't know what all UC things I'll have to do | 14:21 |
| VW | but will help cover what I can | 14:21 |
| emccormickva | Thanks! | 14:21 |
| mihalis68 | obviously VW you will run the meeting as you see fit, but I would suggest trying to see if we can improve how we do this. The number of people who attended the catch-up in Boston vastly exceeded the attendees here, despite this being a simple cost-free location independent IRC meeting. I must admit I don't quite understand... | 14:22 |
| VW | indeed | 14:22 |
| mihalis68 | maybe we need to send out an agenda each week that has interesting topics? Provide a reason to attend? | 14:23 |
| VW | I'd like to have as much info about Tokyo too so we can work on that while we have a larger audience | 14:23 |
| VW | yeah - prepublishing an agenda might help | 14:23 |
| mihalis68 | Shintaro has provided an update on the agenda etherpad | 14:23 |
| shintaro | not much info yet. but visited the venue with my organiser | 14:23 |
| smcginnis | Maybe a reminder on the openstack-operators mailing list within a day/hours before the meeting? | 14:24 |
| mihalis68 | Ok. I appreciate all suggestions on this | 14:24 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to try out reminder with agenda before next weeks meeting | 14:25 |
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| emccormickva | ok, put the catch-up in the system. | 14:25 |
| emccormickva | I put it in rather. | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | great! | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | we have touched on almost everything on the agenda | 14:26 |
| mihalis68 | I have one note, not even an update, but I have our Canonical engineer working on the docs, in particular to see if he can produce a more complete conversion of the operators guide to markdown | 14:27 |
| mihalis68 | that document has been agreed by everyone as something that needs to become community maintained on the wiki, however if we can get the tools to build links and TOC that will save a lot of work | 14:28 |
| mihalis68 | when we see the results, I will update the material on the openstack wiki and then I will share with the mailing list | 14:28 |
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| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to share updates to operators guide on the openstack wiki as soon as the conversion work is done (as best it can be) | 14:29 |
| shintaro | if mrhillsman is still here, any update on Foundation support? | 14:29 |
| emccormickva | mihalis68 Do you want a session done for it at the forum? Kind of recruitment session? | 14:30 |
| mihalis68 | I think he said no update yet, but that he had been travelling | 14:30 |
| shintaro | oh I missed that line... | 14:30 |
| mihalis68 | for the operators guide wiki version? | 14:30 |
| emccormickva | yeah | 14:30 |
| mihalis68 | yes | 14:30 |
| emccormickva | If it's ready for edits by then we can show it off and beg for help updating it | 14:30 |
| mihalis68 | I was about to modestly say let's wait and see if it turns out well enough, but the truth is we'll get something posted and usable by our community between now and sydney | 14:31 |
| emccormickva | OK I'll plop that in there then. | 14:31 |
| mihalis68 | our canonical engineer is good. The docs team was in need of a link checker and instead of debating he just wrote one for them | 14:31 |
| mihalis68 | cool thanks | 14:31 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to ensure operators guide wiki document is at least minimally usable before session voting closes for Sydney | 14:32 |
| mihalis68 | nothing like a self-imposed deadline to provide "clarity" :) | 14:32 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to email med_ for an update on his actions | 14:33 |
| mihalis68 | rationale: David was considering running for TC, which I think was a welcome suggestion | 14:33 |
| emccormickva | OK it's in there. Now you're stuck. | 14:34 |
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| mihalis68 | The other topic I have a special interest in is already there. The "OpenStack LTS release" issue. | 14:35 |
| mihalis68 | I assume Sydney attendees will make sure that carries the debate forwards from mexico? | 14:35 |
| emccormickva | They should make that a double session | 14:36 |
| mihalis68 | yeah | 14:37 |
| mihalis68 | I will be sorry to miss that | 14:37 |
| shintaro | we probably need to invite major distributors there | 14:37 |
| emccormickva | You'll be able to hear it from New York | 14:37 |
| mihalis68 | shintaro that is an excellent point | 14:37 |
| VW | sorry - desk walk up - reading scroll back | 14:38 |
| mihalis68 | I can do some of that. Maria from redhat, jill from canonical, perhaps network with suse to get a representative from them | 14:38 |
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| mihalis68 | not saying I expect those people to attend, but I know they acknowledged interest in this topic in mexico | 14:38 |
| mihalis68 | #action mihalis68 to highlight the openstack lts session to major distro vendors | 14:39 |
| emccormickva | There should be sufficient bodies there to have each of them send a rep. | 14:39 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: I can track someone down in Huawei. They will have interest in the LTS discussion too. | 14:39 |
| emccormickva | maybe whoever is in charge of stable branch and someone from infra would be good too | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | mike perez (thingee) represented the openstack developers in that session in mexico and ... it was grim to hear | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | something like "this has been proposed many times, nothing ever changes, people don't show up to do the work needed" | 14:40 |
| emccormickva | Yeah I made him mad :D | 14:40 |
| smcginnis | :) | 14:40 |
| emccormickva | Well, that was more the skip level discussion | 14:40 |
| mihalis68 | #action smcginnis to seek a representative from Huawei re: OpenStack LTS | 14:40 |
| emccormickva | sorry, "fast-forward" | 14:40 |
| smcginnis | If the ops and distros can lead the discussion, I think we can get someone from the "stable" team to be present too. | 14:41 |
| mihalis68 | I felt we didn't hear what Sean had to say on the topic, sadly | 14:41 |
| mihalis68 | he was the moderator but not the loudest voice | 14:41 |
| smcginnis | We'll get there. Or at least keep trying. ;) | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | Shintaro you said something about NTT not being able to keep up with current openstack release cadence too, right? | 14:42 |
| shintaro | right. updating is one of our biggest wall | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | yeah, I think that session was unruly because we really hit the motherlode, it's a very hot topic | 14:42 |
| admin0 | lts is a good idea, but should that be only vendor specific ? | 14:42 |
| mihalis68 | can you or a colleague make sure to represent in that session? | 14:43 |
| emccormickva | Kind of interesting. Ceph is going through a discussion now to slow their release cadence but make all their releases LTS | 14:43 |
| mihalis68 | the problem with vendor specific is duplication of work | 14:43 |
| smcginnis | If ops can keep making noise and putting pressure on their vendors, I think we will start to see some progress. | 14:43 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: ++ vendors really need to work together on this, IMO. | 14:43 |
| mihalis68 | Shintaro makes a very good point in the above-linked superuser article that NTT move to "upstream first" which avoids duplication of effort. Makes sense to me | 14:43 |
| mihalis68 | seems to be the modern way | 14:44 |
| mihalis68 | as an example, even Dell, a company that I didn't necessarily love when it comes to Linux, now works that way | 14:44 |
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| mihalis68 | when they fix drivers for Dell laptops, they upstream the fixes | 14:44 |
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| mihalis68 | (I can now say Dell looks pretty great for linux, e.g. the 13" developer edition with ubuntu preinstalled - not knocking them at all) | 14:45 |
| mrhillsman | I don't think you made Mike mad emccormickva | 14:46 |
| mrhillsman | I agree with smcginnis operators with vendors need to get together and push them | 14:46 |
| mrhillsman | In general | 14:46 |
| emccormickva | We drank on it later. It's all good. He just got frustrated and I can be a bit...animated when I'm passionate about something. | 14:46 |
| mrhillsman | These folks will do what the majority of their customers want | 14:47 |
| VW | alright - I have to jet to a meeting here. I'll see you all next week | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | I thought it was good for Erik to speak bluntly. I did something similar in NYC meet up just over a year ago. Sean Dague said something like "well why aren't you keeping up" and so I told him | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | cheers VW | 14:47 |
| mihalis68 | one thought I had is that if an LTS was announced, it might encourage operators to try to keep up with that | 14:48 |
| mihalis68 | I mean, we just can't do 2/year | 14:48 |
| mihalis68 | so we don't even try to be honest | 14:48 |
| smcginnis | mihalis68: Good point. | 14:49 |
| * jproulx will likely default to LTS=UbuntuLTS starting in 18.04 (since I'm still on mitaka ffs) | 14:49 | |
| mrhillsman | Why don't we work to gather enough operators voicing this to the captains of the ships ;) | 14:50 |
| mihalis68 | I could certainly make the case that the project now catered to us and we need to make an effort to stay on that train | 14:50 |
| mihalis68 | hi proulx I am still working on the update TO Mitaka... | 14:50 |
| mihalis68 | jproulx I mean | 14:50 |
| jproulx | I have a relatively small & nimble ship here... | 14:51 |
| mihalis68 | mrhillsman seems like we are gearing up to do just that | 14:51 |
| mihalis68 | jproulx reminiscent of John Paul Jones ("I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way") perhaps? :) | 14:52 |
| jproulx | +1 | 14:52 |
| mihalis68 | Ok. Is there any other business? I think we covered a lot, and I certainly picked up a few actions | 14:52 |
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| mihalis68 | mrhillsman I think a lot of us are anxious to hear an update on the foundation support for the ops events etc | 14:53 |
| mihalis68 | we seem to be done. Thanks everyone. I will publicize next weeks meeting better | 14:54 |
| mihalis68 | #endmeeting | 14:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of topics related to operating Openstack infrastructures at scale | Mailing list: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators | Logs: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/" | 14:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 26 14:54:30 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2017/ops_meetup_team.2017-09-26-14.01.html | 14:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2017/ops_meetup_team.2017-09-26-14.01.txt | 14:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetup_team/2017/ops_meetup_team.2017-09-26-14.01.log.html | 14:54 |
| shintaro | thanks | 14:54 |
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| emccormickva | See you all next week. Go make some noise on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SYD-ops-session-ideas if you have anything else to go in. | 14:54 |
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| thingee | emccormickva: for the record, you and I are ok. My frustration comes from a thought that nothing has been done about something. Based on the discussion I was hearing and interacting with at the ops midcycle, the solutions being tossed around we're known in our history of not working. I just didn't want people to get too excited and then hit the same blockers. | 16:01 |
| thingee | mihalis68: ^ | 16:03 |
| thingee | Maybe it makes sense for me to document EOL problem, what has been proposed, what would be the path forward, what it requires | 16:04 |
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| thingee | because right now it's just tribal knowledge. people with good intentions bring the conversation up and spend time learning the same blockers eventually. | 16:06 |
| mihalis68 | I'd love to read such a memo. I certainly lack context | 16:08 |
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| mihalis68 | I owe Thingee mexican food anyway. Let me add a proper margarita or three to that | 16:15 |
| mihalis68 | (I'm going to ignore "foundation credit card" entirely) | 16:15 |
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| emccormickva | thingee, We all want to learn what the problems are when there are barriers to things we'd like to do, and where possible, actively contribute to finding solutions. I'd love to read up on what blockers there are :). | 18:11 |
| emccormickva | Looking forward to a robust discussion in Sydney. | 18:12 |
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| thingee | emccormickva: me too | 18:23 |
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