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| gfa_ | fifieldt: r u the chair? | 13:56 |
|---|---|---|
| fifieldt | apparently :) | 13:56 |
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| fifieldt | ok | 14:00 |
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| shintaro | hi | 14:00 |
| fifieldt | anyone here for the ops meetups team meeting? | 14:00 |
| ckonstanski | sure | 14:01 |
| s3an2 | o/ | 14:01 |
| clayton | yeap | 14:01 |
| shintaro | o/ | 14:01 |
| serverascode | o/ | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | impressive, ok, let's try it | 14:01 |
| bloatyfloat | o/ | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | #startmeeting Ops Meetups Team | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 14:01:28 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fifieldt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ops_meetups_team' | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | Hello all and thank you for coming to the meeting. It's our second ever, and based on the amount of stuff we raised in the last one, there are likely many more to come. | 14:01 |
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| fifieldt | Due to the timing, being the "first thing back" after a US holiday, I'm not sure how many people we'll get today. We may need to postpone :) | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | Our agenda can be found at: | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | Please add your name there in the list of attendees so we know who's here :) | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | #topic Review of actions from previous meeting | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | First up, a quick administrative topic. We had 4 action items from last meeting. | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | 1. dc_mattj keep the cloud running | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | ==> umm. | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | 2. fifieldt to email the mailing list to propose 1400 UTC Tuesdays, every two weeks, with note about changing frequency | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | ==> was put on the ML at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2016-May/010481.html - no objections noted | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | 3. mihalis68 to write up "users" vs "vendors" hosting philosophy | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | ==> Was put on the ML at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2016-May/010461.html | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | 4. fifieldt to arrange next meeting in two weeks | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | ==> Well, we're here :) | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | any comments on the work from the past meeting? | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | ... I guess not :) | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | well, since they're basically on the ML, feel free to continue there | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | #topic Upcoming Meetup | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | Now, I'm not sure if we have folks here from Bloomberg or Bestbuy, our two prospective hosts... | 14:04 |
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| s3an2 | don't see any on the etherpad | 14:05 |
| fifieldt | We didn't make any progress toward an open call for proposals in the past week (for some reason it wasn't an action item), and it's getting late in the process. Since we have two excellent proposals, I'd suggest that we move forward to choose between these two for August without calling for additional proposals. That way we'll be able to properly spec out for next time. | 14:05 |
| shintaro | I couldn't make Tokyo this time, I'll try one after Barcelona. | 14:05 |
| fifieldt | no problem, Mizuno san | 14:06 |
| * fifieldt looks forward to the chance | 14:06 | |
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| fifieldt | what do you all think about that idea? and if so, how should that be shaped? | 14:06 |
| shintaro | I guess the Region will be NA, then | 14:07 |
| fifieldt | based on the summit in Barcelona and the previous ops meetup in EU, it seems like it is NA's turn | 14:07 |
| fifieldt | but, what do you think? | 14:07 |
| s3an2 | I think NA is a good idea - east coast works better for EU folks. | 14:08 |
| gfa_ | sounds good? the good thing about both Bloomberg and Bestbuy is they won't try to sell you anything | 14:08 |
| shintaro | are the proposals on the etherpad? | 14:08 |
| fifieldt | Bestbuy proposal was written to the ML recently | 14:09 |
| fifieldt | lemme see if I can find the link | 14:09 |
| fifieldt | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2016-May/010459.html | 14:10 |
| fifieldt | Bloomberg was a NYC venue ("city hall") and was discused briefly in the previous meeting | 14:10 |
| fifieldt | but, it seems noone's here to provide further details for eithe | 14:11 |
| fifieldt | so we might need to postpone this topic | 14:11 |
| fifieldt | or are there further comments about the next meetup? | 14:11 |
| serverascode | it might be good to determine if east/west coast is important | 14:11 |
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| fifieldt | that might be the crux of the decision, in the end | 14:12 |
| fifieldt | last East Coast was philly | 14:12 |
| fifieldt | last West Coast was Palo Alto | 14:12 |
| fifieldt | so if we're doing east/west coast swapping each time, we'd be back to East | 14:12 |
| fifieldt | but, what do you think serves best? | 14:12 |
| bloatyfloat | Perhaps figuring out the distribution of operators to try and balance it? | 14:13 |
| shintaro | not much difference from Asia in terms of travel, I guess ;) | 14:13 |
| serverascode | it did seem like european operators preferred east coast in the last meeting, but I don't have a preference | 14:13 |
| fifieldt | I'm with shintaro, it's always a long way from Asia :D | 14:13 |
| fifieldt | ok, well we should probably check the feasibility of the venues | 14:14 |
| fifieldt | which means getting further details about them | 14:14 |
| serverascode | ok | 14:14 |
| bloatyfloat | indeed, there's no need to commit to anything without enough info on both | 14:14 |
| fifieldt | would anyone like to join me in the detail seeking emails? | 14:14 |
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| fifieldt | keen to share 'how' this is done | 14:14 |
| fifieldt | rather than expecting effortz :) | 14:14 |
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| gfa_ | fifieldt: i would join you | 14:15 |
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| gfa_ | if you "guide" a bit | 14:15 |
| fifieldt | ok, gfa_, I'll set up an etherpad or something and we can work on the emails? | 14:15 |
| gfa_ | ok | 14:15 |
| fifieldt | #action gfa_ and fifieldt to email Bloomberg and BestBuy to determine venue feasibility for the August ops meetup | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | ok, so gfa_ and I will come back to either this meeting or the ML once we have further details | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | is that the only thing we need to do in relation to the next meetup? | 14:16 |
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| fifieldt | (at this time, that is) | 14:17 |
| bloatyfloat | Will you be sending this in CC to the operators list, or just to those involved? | 14:17 |
| fifieldt | probably off-list, to avoid embarassment in case there are mismatches between the proposal and the aims of the event | 14:17 |
| bloatyfloat | Thats perfectly understandable :) | 14:18 |
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| fifieldt | also, some of the comms will go to events people who aren't in the community | 14:18 |
| fifieldt | so might not be "allowed" | 14:18 |
| fifieldt | if that's OK | 14:18 |
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| fifieldt | but all comms will be summarised :) | 14:18 |
| fifieldt | if a few more people would like to be on CC, that'd be cool too | 14:19 |
| dc_mattj | afternoon | 14:19 |
| fifieldt | hola | 14:19 |
| fifieldt | dc_mattj, VW, just to bring you up to speed | 14:19 |
| fifieldt | we looked at the previous action items, all were OK | 14:19 |
| fifieldt | then started talking about the next meetup | 14:19 |
| fifieldt | but noone from the proposers are here right now | 14:19 |
| fifieldt | so gfa_ and I took an action item to followup to determine feasibility | 14:20 |
| dc_mattj | k | 14:20 |
| fifieldt | will also take others who want to tag onto those emails asking them for details | 14:20 |
| fifieldt | but I think that's about it for the discussion of the next meetup in August | 14:20 |
| fifieldt | unless someone wants to jump in? | 14:20 |
| fifieldt | ok, I guess not, so let's move on the fun stuff! | 14:21 |
| shintaro | let me in the CC list | 14:21 |
| fifieldt | ok shintaro :) | 14:21 |
| fifieldt | anyone else? | 14:21 |
| fifieldt | #topic Higher-level discussion | 14:22 |
| fifieldt | OK, so | 14:22 |
| fifieldt | not sure if anyone saw any of the new stuff I wrote up on our wiki page | 14:22 |
| fifieldt | particularly, | 14:22 |
| fifieldt | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ops_Meetups_Team#Approach | 14:22 |
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| fifieldt | just tried to summarise all of the topics we ran into last meeting | 14:22 |
| fifieldt | My proposal is that we try and pick one(?) per meeting and dive deep and 'solve' it | 14:23 |
| fifieldt | but open to any and all ideas | 14:23 |
| fifieldt | as long as we make concrete progress in planning the "future" for these events | 14:23 |
| dc_mattj | sounds good | 14:23 |
| fifieldt | so, where would you like to start? | 14:24 |
| shintaro | fifield: can you discribe "e planning for individual instances of the event:"? | 14:24 |
| fifieldt | sure thing | 14:24 |
| fifieldt | so in that "approach" section, I divided into two sections | 14:24 |
| fifieldt | basically I guess ythis group does two things | 14:25 |
| fifieldt | 1) "organise" the actual meetups - just like we were in the previous discussion topic | 14:25 |
| fifieldt | 2) work out "the future" for this event | 14:25 |
| fifieldt | planning for individual instances of the event == #1 | 14:25 |
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| fifieldt | so just like we had discussions last meeting about the best month to hold it | 14:26 |
| shintaro | fifield: got it! | 14:26 |
| fifieldt | and the discussion just then about NA, with the followup with the NA venyues, etc | 14:26 |
| fifieldt | cool | 14:26 |
| dc_mattj | a lot of this is pretty interconnected - room sizes, venue requirements, number of participants for example | 14:26 |
| fifieldt | this is true | 14:26 |
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| fifieldt | so, how about perhaps, what's most important? | 14:27 |
| dc_mattj | number of participants drives a bunch of other stuff | 14:27 |
| VW | it does | 14:27 |
| fifieldt | ok, let's start there! | 14:27 |
| fifieldt | someone want to start with their thinking? | 14:27 |
| dc_mattj | 150 | 14:28 |
| dc_mattj | to 200 | 14:28 |
| shintaro | yes | 14:28 |
| serverascode | yup | 14:28 |
| gfa_ | +1 | 14:28 |
| gfa_ | we could grow if many ppl remains outside, or shrink | 14:29 |
| s3an2 | seem to match the Seattle BestBuy location | 14:29 |
| fifieldt | for the record, someone want to write out the "why"? | 14:29 |
| dc_mattj | on it | 14:30 |
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| dc_mattj | or trying to at least ;) | 14:30 |
| * fifieldt waits for the brilliance | 14:31 | |
| dc_mattj | nope, can't log in | 14:31 |
| VW | ok - thanks dc_mattj. I'm still trying to reconcile the idea that we cap it if we found a venue that held say 400 or 500 | 14:31 |
| gfa_ | we could require venues for at least 150 - 200,if we got a bigger one raise the cap | 14:32 |
| fifieldt | so what does n event with 400 or 500 look like compared to a 150-200 event? | 14:32 |
| gfa_ | then raise the cap | 14:32 |
| mrhillsman | i thought we decided on a cap last meeting? | 14:32 |
| serverascode | all I can add is that it felt like palo alto had too many people | 14:33 |
| fifieldt | what are the differences between a capped 150 event and a 'large' 500 evnet? | 14:33 |
| fifieldt | personally, I agree with serverascode | 14:34 |
| dc_mattj | more impersonal | 14:34 |
| VW | fair enough | 14:34 |
| dc_mattj | less opportunity to get to know people | 14:34 |
| * VW backs off | 14:34 | |
| dc_mattj | bigger org team needed to manage the event etc | 14:34 |
| dc_mattj | ;) | 14:34 |
| fifieldt | I think one of the practical things is the number of people who can realistically join a discussion in a single room | 14:34 |
| dc_mattj | is it just me or is there something wrong with openID login to the wiki | 14:34 |
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| serverascode | also if 500 was possible then it could be split into separate geographic events | 14:35 |
| dc_mattj | fifieldt, +1 | 14:35 |
| fifieldt | so, is it important to have a "common | 14:35 |
| fifieldt | " | 14:35 |
| fifieldt | discussion | 14:35 |
| fifieldt | as we've had to date? | 14:35 |
| shintaro | venue selection would be hard for 500 with say 10 parallel session? | 14:35 |
| fifieldt | a fair point | 14:35 |
| dc_mattj | as opposed to more one to many talks ? | 14:35 |
| fifieldt | yeah, I think a key part of this event is active participation | 14:36 |
| fifieldt | do you agree? | 14:36 |
| VW | yes | 14:36 |
| dc_mattj | yes | 14:36 |
| shintaro | o/ | 14:36 |
| mrhillsman | yes | 14:36 |
| s3an2 | yes | 14:36 |
| VW | but I don't want to focus on the general sessions at the expense of times for teams/working groups | 14:36 |
| fifieldt | right, the different session types is a good point | 14:37 |
| VW | I think we frame a lot of our decsions on the flow of the general sessions - or at least we have in the 1.5 meetings so far :) | 14:37 |
| fifieldt | very good point | 14:37 |
| fifieldt | so, what then about sizes for the teams/working groups? | 14:37 |
| fifieldt | LDT is hitting 60 at the meetups and 100 at the summit | 14:37 |
| fifieldt | ScientificWG was about 40 at manchester | 14:38 |
| fifieldt | maybe 60 in Austin | 14:38 |
| fifieldt | put those side by side and you hit your cap? | 14:38 |
| fifieldt | dc_mattj: maybe you can write your 'why' on the etherpad? | 14:39 |
| serverascode | the ldt I went to in tokyo was more like 15 | 14:39 |
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| fifieldt | tokyo and vancouver were both in general smaller, yes | 14:40 |
| fifieldt | another interesting point | 14:40 |
| fifieldt | taking the 500 example | 14:40 |
| fifieldt | is what would happen during the working group/team time | 14:40 |
| fifieldt | we don't have that many working groups | 14:41 |
| fifieldt | at least not enough to split to have a nice "50 in each" room or so | 14:41 |
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| VW | That's fair | 14:41 |
| fifieldt | which means we end up with large numbers of people who may not necessarily be actively participating in the WGs | 14:41 |
| VW | 50 is getting to the size that it's hard to do work in the session | 14:41 |
| VW | and we did for sure in Palo Alto | 14:42 |
| fifieldt | one of the arguments for the larger size event is that it's better because we can get more feedback from a wider gorup of people | 14:42 |
| fifieldt | considering one of our aims is feedback that's useful for development | 14:42 |
| fifieldt | however that's countered by the people-in-one-room discussion problem | 14:42 |
| fifieldt | another counter argument is more widely disributed meetups more often gets the same | 14:43 |
| fifieldt | so, it seems we're leaning toward a 150-200pax event | 14:43 |
| fifieldt | dc_mattj: cam i acton u to write the why? | 14:43 |
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| dc_mattj | yup, putting it on the ether pad right now | 14:44 |
| clayton | palo alto also had no fee required. part of the problem in the fishbowl sessions was actually that people were too spread out in a room that was bigger than needed. at least on the second day | 14:44 |
| fifieldt | #action dc_mattj to write the justificaiton for smaller meetups and communication on the M | 14:44 |
| VW | dc_mattj: ping me when done (even if dm after meeting), happy to provide extra eyes/tweaks | 14:44 |
| fifieldt | #action VW to help dc_mattj | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | cool | 14:45 |
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| fifieldt | so, with that approximate number written up and justified | 14:45 |
| dc_mattj | does that mean communication on the ML ? | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | I think we'll be in a good position to move forward with that as a basis | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | dc_mattj: when you're happy with it | 14:45 |
| dc_mattj | cool | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | we need wide consensus on this :) | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | since it's pretty critical | 14:45 |
| fifieldt | but, with that in mind, we can start looking at things like | 14:46 |
| fifieldt | if we have a number cap in mind, how do we execute it | 14:46 |
| fifieldt | ? | 14:46 |
| dc_mattj | in Manchester, if we had more tickets they would have ended up with vendors mainly | 14:46 |
| fifieldt | be good to do some aalysis there maybe | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | i remember some irate people | 14:47 |
| dc_mattj | me too ;) | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | do you still hve the list? | 14:47 |
| fifieldt | waitlist | 14:47 |
| dc_mattj | yes, although in the end the waitlist didn't get massive as everyone knew we had a hard cap | 14:48 |
| dc_mattj | think I've still got it all somewhere | 14:48 |
| fifieldt | in general, would you do it the same way again? | 14:48 |
| dc_mattj | would add larger break out rooms | 14:49 |
| fifieldt | and the waitlist/rego mgmt? | 14:49 |
| dc_mattj | eventbrite works well | 14:49 |
| fifieldt | maybe add something extra for the r the waitlist? | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | to avoid mass of emails? | 14:50 |
| dc_mattj | tricky bit is people trying to short circuit the process by going up the ladder | 14:50 |
| dc_mattj | maybe | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | right | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | add in some process there | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | anyway, we have just 10 minutes left in this meeting | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | got a solid action item so far | 14:50 |
| fifieldt | just want to ensure there wasn't someone who had a burning issue they wanted to raise | 14:51 |
| fifieldt | does anyone have concerns, or amazing ideas? | 14:51 |
| serverascode | by the waitlist did you mean that the ppl who didn't get to attend the last meeting might have first dibs on the next? | 14:52 |
| fifieldt | what do people think about that? | 14:52 |
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| fifieldt | worth a shot? | 14:52 |
| serverascode | I think it would help if people were upset that they couldn't attend due to the cap | 14:53 |
| VW | I think I'm ok with it - provided we limit the time they have first shot | 14:53 |
| s3an2 | VW, I agree | 14:53 |
| fifieldt | what's a reasonable time limit? | 14:53 |
| fifieldt | 1 day after reg opens? | 14:53 |
| fifieldt | 3 days? | 14:54 |
| shintaro | 24hrs was an advantage for sponsorship in the summit. | 14:54 |
| shintaro | so maybe 1day | 14:54 |
| s3an2 | I think 1 day is fair | 14:55 |
| VW | can we create a certain number of tickets that require a code, send a code to those folks and have it expire like a week later? | 14:55 |
| VW | or one day | 14:55 |
| fifieldt | eventbrite has that feature, I believe | 14:55 |
| fifieldt | Would someone like to write up a process for managing the waitlist? | 14:55 |
| fifieldt | doesn't have to be anything fancy :) | 14:56 |
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| mrhillsman | i can | 14:56 |
| fifieldt | cheers mrhillsman ! | 14:56 |
| fifieldt | #action mrhillsman to write up a proces for managing the waitlist and send to ML for discussion | 14:57 |
| fifieldt | first pass is all that's needed :) | 14:57 |
| fifieldt | we can refine on ML | 14:57 |
| mrhillsman | sure thing | 14:57 |
| fifieldt | ok, with 3 minutes left in our meeting, how are we feeling? | 14:57 |
| fifieldt | I'm sorry we didn't make a lot of progess on August today | 14:57 |
| dc_mattj | one other small point which came up in the context of the User Committee Charter | 14:58 |
| dc_mattj | was naming | 14:58 |
| fifieldt | right | 14:58 |
| dc_mattj | meetups vs mid cycles | 14:58 |
| fifieldt | thoughts? | 14:58 |
| fifieldt | (2 minute warning) | 14:58 |
| dc_mattj | I think I'm on the side of midcycle | 14:58 |
| VW | Ops mid-cycles | 14:58 |
| dc_mattj | as it separates this from user group meetups | 14:59 |
| s3an2 | dc_mattj, +1 | 14:59 |
| VW | and at the summits Ops sessions | 14:59 |
| VW | or something to mirror the design session naming | 14:59 |
| shintaro | +1 for midcycle | 14:59 |
| dc_mattj | VW, +1 | 14:59 |
| fifieldt | lol, someone want to setyup a surveymonkey? | 14:59 |
| mrhillsman | midcycle | 14:59 |
| VW | for the whole ml, fifieldt? | 14:59 |
| fifieldt | I guess so, it's a bit of fun :) | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | anyway, we're at time | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | so I won't force that as an action item :) | 15:00 |
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| fifieldt | but if you do want to jump on the ML with that iidea, feel welcome! | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | OK, our hour went fast | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | let's do this again in 2 weeks | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | and pay attention to the ML in the interim | 15:00 |
| fifieldt | feel free to wrangle the next meeting agenda for your interes t:) | 15:01 |
| shintaro | fifield: thank you | 15:01 |
| fifieldt | and thank you so much for coming!! | 15:01 |
| fifieldt | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 15:01:20 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetups_team/2016/ops_meetups_team.2016-05-31-14.01.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetups_team/2016/ops_meetups_team.2016-05-31-14.01.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ops_meetups_team/2016/ops_meetups_team.2016-05-31-14.01.log.html | 15:01 |
| dc_mattj | bye all | 15:01 |
| gfa_ | fifieldt: tnx | 15:01 |
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| mrhillsman | l8rs | 15:01 |
| VW | thanks, all! | 15:01 |
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| dmsimard | Has anyone noticed performance issues specific to nova API commands in Mitaka ? I filed this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1582409 | 15:16 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1582409 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "nova-api performance issues on "openstack server list"" [Undecided,Invalid] | 15:16 |
| dmsimard | I'd like to hunt the problem down further but curious if anyone else has noticed anything. | 15:16 |
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| med_ | dmsimard, has your deployment scaled at the same time as your move to Mitaka? That's an issue we noticed that kind of made us think it was a Liberty problem when it was really just our cloud growing. | 16:40 |
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| dmsimard | med_: This is reproducible on an empty (brand new) very simple deployment driven with openstack puppet modules. | 16:43 |
| med_ | kk | 16:43 |
| dmsimard | I haven't tried reproducing the issue on liberty, though | 16:44 |
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