Friday, 2016-05-20

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mdormanthanks for update on ML thread, sorrison.  at least i know we are in the same boat and i’m not crazy02:47
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VWwell, you are crazy02:54
VWmdorman, but you and sorrison may still be in the same boat :P02:54
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mdormanindeed   o_O02:55
VW"if we weren't all crazy, we would go insane" - Jimmy Buffett02:56
sorrison_laptopHey guys02:56
VWhello, sir!02:56
sorrison_laptopalways good to know it can be replicated02:56
VWwill fire up the meeting stuffs momentarily02:56
sorrison_laptopI'm in the middle of a nectar workshop, currently having the best roast pork for lunch!02:57
mdormanthat sounds very tasty02:57
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* VW ponders appropriate comment refering to proper biscuits 02:59
sorrison_laptopYeah miss those03:00
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VWwell, here we go...03:01
VW#startmeeting Large Deployments Team May 2016 Meeting03:01
openstackMeeting started Fri May 20 03:01:31 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is VW. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting'03:01
VWquick roll call03:02
mdormano/03:02
sorrison_laptopo/03:02
gfa_103:02
gfa_o/03:02
VW0/03:02
VWhope everyone didn't have too many cloud fires to put out after the summit03:03
VW#topic summit follow up03:04
VWso, the one thing we didn't manage to boil things down to was a new item to pick up as a team and pursue with devs03:04
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VWI think that the retiring/removing/hidding old images was as close as we got03:05
VWbut, any particular items from the LDT sessions at the summit - or any other sessions - that we need to bring back up as a team?03:05
sorrison_laptopI also think the whole delivery of images to compute nodes and then the snapshot process is something we could look into?03:06
mdormanyeah originally back after tokyo we had talked about trying to pick up some glance stuff.  so that seems as good as any.03:06
VWcan you elaborate sorrison_laptop03:07
VWyou mean the passing of images through the glance APIs03:07
VWor somethin gelse03:07
mdormani would also liek to see LDT as a source for info for shepherding people through the cells v1 —> v2 transition, although it’s probably a bit early to be doing much of anything real useful there.03:07
sorrison_laptopyeah I like that idea mdorman03:08
VWme too03:08
VWsounds like the change for migrating is going to be O, right?03:08
mdormani don’t recall exactly, but that seems about right.  definitely should probably be a focus for barcelona03:08
sorrison_laptopWRT glance I partly mean bypassing glance to get it out of the way03:08
VWyeah - same thing03:09
mdormanyeah i think these glance things would be a good shorter term thing to do03:09
VWcool03:09
VWunfortunately this is not a good time for belmiro.  He has looked at the deprecated image bit the most03:10
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sorrison_laptopbasically need a flag on a glance image that nova can query on boot03:11
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VWyeah, I think so03:12
VWwas just looking back at the Glance stuff here - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/AUS-ops-informal-meetup03:12
sorrison_laptopyeah I went to that session03:12
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mdormani think i missed that part.03:14
VWlooks like https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Glance-deactivate-image and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132717/ are most appropriate03:14
flwangVW: with the deactivate  image, i think nova rebuild will still fail03:15
VWyeah - I think that's the curx of the issue03:15
flwangthe hard part to deprecate an image in cloud is there are still some instances depend on that03:15
VWwe want to stop the new, but have tenants out there who may need to rebuild03:15
VWexactly03:16
flwangi'm responsible for our cloud's images maintaining03:16
flwangand i would say the old images maintenance is frustrating03:17
VWagreed03:17
VWwith a public cloud to look after, I'm not sure they ever dia :)03:17
sorrison_laptopyeah unfortunately reading the commit message it doesn't look like it will do what we want03:18
sorrison_laptopalmost want a "bootable" flag for an image03:18
sorrison_laptopthat's really the only thing we want to disable03:18
VWagreed03:19
sorrison_laptopwhich means nova and glance interaction03:19
sorrison_laptopso I guess we need to talk to some glance people about whether we can redefine what deactivated is or we need a new action03:20
VWyes, I think so03:20
VWbut do we need to bring Nova to the conversation too03:20
sorrison_laptopyeah as they would need to check that value on a boot api request?03:21
mdormanreally does seem this is mostly on the nova side.  glace wise you could simply put some ‘bootable’ metadata key on the image, no changes needed to glance.03:21
gfa_maybe a nova filter can do the trick03:22
sorrison_laptopyeah true03:22
flwangsorrison_laptop: that's a good point, re the 'bootable' flag03:22
flwangVW: I'm a glance core actually :D03:23
VWWIN!03:23
mdormanwould be good to discuss with nova, get a feel for how they would envision doing this.  unsure if this particular piece of the issue has ever been raise with them.03:23
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sorrison_laptopa filter is an interesting idea03:24
VWyeah flwang - I haven't taken off my Rackspace hat and hit Hemmanth up with anything re: LDT03:24
VWyet :)03:24
VWyes, a filter is03:24
sorrison_laptopglance has the functionally to support admin metadata key/values03:24
flwangVW: i think the tricky part is we don't want to allow to create new instance based on the image, but we should keep all the other things, like rebuild, live migration, etc, works03:24
VWexactly03:25
flwangthere are a lot of filters in nova, if we can't reuse them, then maybe we can create a new one03:25
gfa_:D03:25
sorrison_laptopusing a filter means that instead of the boot request not being accepted it is accepted and fails03:26
mdormanyeah i like this filter idea too03:26
sorrison_laptopI would prefer it got stopped at the api level03:26
mdormantrue03:26
VWme too03:26
flwangi can work on that guys, recently, i'm playing with filter to support windows images on our cloud03:26
flwangsorrison: that may introduce some logic change in nova03:26
sorrison_laptopyeah exactly, that is the hard way03:27
flwangand i can imagine it would be hard to be merged, just my 2 cents03:27
xavpaicewould be good to better understand how to add custom filters though03:27
mdormanthe filter thing might be a good first MVP step.  at least it could help stop the bleeding of using old images03:27
mdormanwould be interested to see what you come up with flwang03:27
sorrison_laptopI'd like a flag in nova to say only allow images to boot if they have image-meta X03:27
sorrison_laptopbut yeah a filter may be a good first step03:28
VWyes - in the spirit of moving things along, flwang - can you put together a spec (or an etherpad mock up there of) and circulate it03:28
flwangsorrison: i will talk with nova guys to figure out a way, i will let you guys know when there is any progress03:28
sorrison_laptopgreat03:29
flwangVW: no problem03:29
VWtag it with [Large Deployement Team] on the ops list03:29
VWyes, and let me know if you need help pushing on the Nova folks03:29
VWI can harrass a few cores myself03:29
flwangVW: let me know how large it is?03:29
flwang;)03:29
flwangVW: i know the nova PTL very well, we were colleagues when i worked for IBM03:29
VWyeah, and the former one works with me03:30
mdormanit’s not what you know, but who you know.03:30
VWbut, this brings me back to something that we sort of talked about in Austin, but we should probably revisit03:31
flwangVW: awesome03:31
flwangVW: i discussed with brain romatia and nikhil about how it's done in Rackspace03:31
VWdo we, as a team, need to make a combined statement on where we think that Nova (since most clouds center around compute) needs to be more knowledgable of resources in the other services than it is03:32
flwangbut i can't remember anything ;D03:32
VWoh yeah - forgot that Brian was back in the Glance game03:32
flwangVW: or translate it as: the other services need to provide more way/apis to be consumed by others03:33
flwangor just more attributes03:33
VWwell, one of the concepts we were talking about flwang was things like a nova delete not getting a response from Neutron and then leaves a ports/IPs stranded03:34
VWNova will say - it's a Neutron problem - we sent the request to the API03:34
flwangVW: that's bad03:34
flwangVW: imagine delete a tenant from keystone :)03:34
xavpaicetry deleting a keystone project, and see what instances get left behind :)03:34
flwangyou will feel better03:35
xavpaicesometimes it shows we work together :)03:35
* jamespd looks at all of the owner-less routers :/03:35
VWI think my point is for all the work to keep the services seperate - as large deployers - we can admit that most of the resources in our clouds are tied to an instance03:36
flwangjamespd: you're the king of owner-less routers03:36
mdormanVW:  is there a case for what you’re talking about re: Nova knowing more about other resources that doesn’t fall into the delete/orphaning scenario?03:36
VWyeah, I've got orphaned IPs I have to go clean up on a somewhat frequent basis03:36
VWfor me, the ideal scenario would be that Nova tracks resources used by a VM in other services03:37
VWand doesn't complete the VM delete until they are cleaned up03:37
flwangVW: as for the image deprecation, should we totally forbid user boot images from old public images?03:37
VWyes flwang03:38
VWon the other, maybe I'm crazy03:38
flwangVW: haha, thanks for the confirmation03:38
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VWI just get the sense from sessions - and halway talk - that nova is looking to pay less and less direct attention to other things03:39
VWand we may not want that03:39
xavpaiceperhaps nova should just track the resources it consumes - i.e. things a VM is using like IPs - which could at least prevent the orphans03:40
VWyeah xavpaice - something like that03:41
xavpaicebut maybe we need to try to raise a bug whenever we see such things rather than just fixing them in the db03:41
xavpaice(I know I'm unlikely to do so because it's hard to replicate)03:41
VWI know our nova folks fixed at least one recently.  I'll follow up on if it is/will be upstream03:42
VWanyway, I think I sidetracked things.  We'll keep an eye on that stuff.  This was a brief part of chatter in our Thursday session and wasn't sure if folks had thoughts03:43
VWsounds like we have a start on the deprecated image stuff03:43
VWflwang: what's your geography03:43
flwangVW: NZ03:43
VWwill you be able to make next months meeting or do we want to revisit in July03:43
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flwangsame company with xavpaice and jamespd03:44
VWah03:44
xavpaiceUTC+12 fwiw03:44
VWwell, if we don't cover much on the mailing lists between now and then, lets circle back in two months here03:44
VWunless you just have a burning desire to jump in a meeting at 2:00 am your time :)03:45
jamespdheh03:46
VWbefore we run out of time was there anything from the cells V2 sessions we wanted to circle back on?03:46
VWthey occured after our last LDT session03:46
flwangVW: i will stay at this channel a while and update the status about image deprecation03:47
flwangspec03:47
VWexcellent03:47
VWwe'll be sure to circulate, comment, etc03:47
mdormaniirc the cells v2 discussion was pretty deep in the weeds and i don’t recall anything particularly piqueing my interest03:47
VWI'm sure the CERN folks will want to chime in when they wake up03:48
VWme either mdorman, but I know I wasn't the smartest person in the room03:48
VWso, I thought I'd double check with you all03:48
mdormanyeah, klindgren and sorrison_laptop were in there too03:48
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VWok - so aside from the great migration fears we all share, no specific cells V2 stuff to worry about right now then?03:50
mdormanyeah that’s the sense i have03:50
VWcool03:50
VWdon't forget sorrison_laptop, if any of your sites build local to the cell via an api at that level, the new DB introduced in M will potentially break that03:51
VWthat's the first cells V2 thing we tripped over since we build bypass apis for testing new cells03:52
VWwell, we have 8 minutes left, so...03:52
VW#other business03:52
VWanything else we need to cover03:52
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VWargh - sorry - late here03:53
VW#topic other business03:53
mdormani have nothing.  thanks for leading VW03:53
fifieldt+1 all hail VW03:53
mdormanhaha03:53
mdormanfifieldt:  !   o/03:53
VWwho let that guy in ^03:53
jamespdoh, snap.03:53
VWI was just about to say that I joined fifieldt and others in a good chat about the next mid-cycle03:54
VWa good group of engaged folks is looking to make that an open and solid process03:54
fifieldtshameless plug: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ops_Meetups_Team03:54
VWstay tuned for details, but it's looking strongly like it will be North America in August03:54
mdormanyeah iwas just lurking during that, i was pleased as well03:55
VWalso, one of the things fifieldt challenged me on was having this team really think about what our ideal summit schedule would be like in the future with the new structure03:55
VWthat pushes the bulk of design work to different gatherings and focuses more on dev and ops interaction03:56
VWcorrect me if I got that wrong fifieldt03:56
xavpaiceseems to me that the ops midcycle becomes a whole lot more important with the new summit schedule?03:56
VWnot for this meeting, but something we should start thinking on now because it will take us a bit to get it all fleshed out03:56
VWprobably so xavpaice03:56
fifieldtI think ttx put out a blog post today on the perceived changes, check it out03:57
VWoh - really03:57
VWcool03:57
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fifieldt#link https://www.openstack.org/blog/2016/05/faq-evolving-the-openstack-design-summit/03:58
VWawesome!03:59
fifieldtplz2join the webinar and get your opinons across :)03:59
VWwe will03:59
VWthanks for popping in, sir03:59
fifieldtcheers04:00
* fifieldt lurks04:00
VWwell, folks - that's about all she wrote.  let's see where the glance bits go.  feel free to hit the mailing list about it, flawg.  Otherwise, I'll return you to your regularly scheduled shenanigans and see  you all next month04:01
VW#endmeeting04:01
openstackMeeting ended Fri May 20 04:01:43 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:01
flwangVW: cool, thanks04:01
mdormanthanks again VW.  sorrison_laptop, eat some pork for me04:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting/2016/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting.2016-05-20-03.01.html04:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting/2016/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting.2016-05-20-03.01.txt04:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting/2016/large_deployments_team_may_2016_meeting.2016-05-20-03.01.log.html04:01
sorrison_laptopsorry in the middle of a presentation04:02
VWdoh04:02
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