| hamburgler | Heyo :), was wondering is there a way when creating an instance - such as with 'openstack server create --flavor 04eefe73-e27c-4981-9d28-171dac2a8c34 --availability-zone az2 --block-device source_type=image,uuid=d739b3eb-29cb-445f-97e3-7df07fd2555b,destination_type=volume,volume_size=20,volume_type=premium,delete_on_termination=false,boot_index=0 --network=7ee05a21-629f-490e-bdaf-fa64e291012b vm_in_az2' for | 02:24 |
|---|---|---|
| hamburgler | example, to pass the nova availability zone to cinder when it's creating the volume? when using a volume as the boot device, nova does not seem to pass the az name to cinder. Yes I can create a volume in the az off an image, and follow up by attaching it to a new server, but this is an additional step, and seems like broken or missing functionality? each az for example has it's own ceph backend and works fine, and | 02:24 |
| hamburgler | works with ephemeral provisioning which points to each respective ceph cluster, but when it comes to volumes with server create it always defaults to the default availability zone. Do not want to use cross az attachment. TIA :) | 02:24 |
| bauzas | hamburgler: do you know the existence of https://docs.openstack.org/nova/latest/configuration/config.html#cinder.cross_az_attach ? | 07:31 |
| bauzas | by default, the value is True, so we don't verify the Cinder ZE | 07:31 |
| bauzas | AZ* | 07:31 |
| bauzas | eeek, someone emptied the whole ptg etherpad https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-caracal-ptg | 10:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: I was just going to ask about that, I found this looks better, but I forget how you restore it: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-caracal-ptg/timeslider#13560 | 10:08 |
| bauzas | we need an infra admin in order to do it | 10:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, OK | 10:08 |
| bauzas | I just asked in the -infra chan | 10:08 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I could copy/paste but I think we'll loose the colors | 10:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I was thinking the same | 10:10 |
| bauzas | I gonna send an email | 10:11 |
| bauzas | every single cycle, our etherpad got trashed | 10:11 |
| bauzas | I'm just done with that | 10:11 |
| bauzas | this time, this is the first time it's trashed *before* | 10:12 |
| gibi | bauzas: maybe somebody hates nova :) | 11:27 |
| bauzas | gibi: well if someone hates nova, I'm happy to discuss with them to know why | 11:34 |
| gibi | sure, but they are passive agressives :D | 11:48 |
| bauzas | emptying an etherpad isn't really a passive argument | 11:49 |
| bauzas | "I passively did cut all my neighbor' trees because they're too close to my fence' | 11:51 |
| sean-k-mooney | bauzas: fyi, stephenfin is on pto today, fortunetly our ptg session start tomorrow but they likely wont be at the ptg for all our sessions | 12:10 |
| sean-k-mooney | bauzas: ill check with him tomorrow and we can figoure out what session they want to attened/when they are free | 12:10 |
| bauzas | ok | 12:14 |
| sean-k-mooney | i orginaly tought we were starting today so i was going to suggest moving there topic later in the week but they will be back this enveing so its not an issue | 12:23 |
| bauzas | sean-k-mooneysee my email about the proposed schedule for this week, I also added some worth discussions to know | 12:24 |
| sean-k-mooney | can you add those times to the etherpad? | 12:25 |
| sean-k-mooney | i skimmed that eairler but i really dont like doing schduling over the mailing list | 12:25 |
| bauzas | sean-k-mooney: my email's schedule is just a copy/paste from the itself etherpad :) | 12:25 |
| bauzas | so you'll those in that lieu | 12:26 |
| sean-k-mooney | you dont have any of the times in the etherpad | 12:26 |
| sean-k-mooney | im looking at it now | 12:26 |
| bauzas | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-caracal-ptg#L40 | 12:26 |
| bauzas | I don't wanna do like cinder and hardcut times | 12:27 |
| bauzas | for every single topic | 12:27 |
| sean-k-mooney | on they are at the topic not on the topics | 12:27 |
| bauzas | I'm just giving a strawman proposal for the time we need | 12:27 |
| sean-k-mooney | honelyst i would not look there for times | 12:27 |
| bauzas | that's something we do since Yoga | 12:27 |
| sean-k-mooney | but ok i guess. | 12:27 |
| bauzas | even before IIRC | 12:27 |
| bauzas | we purge the list like we want | 12:28 |
| bauzas | and how long we need | 12:28 |
| sean-k-mooney | we used to also put times later on and rearrge the topics | 12:28 |
| bauzas | but I'm providing some kind of high-level view for people wondering | 12:28 |
| bauzas | and then, courtesy list is there for convenience | 12:28 |
| sean-k-mooney | by th eway when you type Nova (Placement) sessions | 12:30 |
| sean-k-mooney | i assume this is just talking about placement | 12:30 |
| sean-k-mooney | or nova placement interaction | 12:30 |
| bauzas | fixed | 12:31 |
| bauzas | good spot | 12:31 |
| sean-k-mooney | thanks | 12:31 |
| bauzas | I thought I had the day for doing other things but no | 12:31 |
| bauzas | my whole afternoon is packed with sessions | 12:32 |
| sean-k-mooney | other then the ci comunity sesssion im not sure if ill attende anything today. i would normally sit in the kolla room but i dont really have much interafction with kolla anymore | 12:36 |
| sean-k-mooney | i might join the rbac session too but again i dont really hav emuch to add there im more intersted in how far we are to the secure rbac goal | 12:37 |
| sean-k-mooney | on the nova side we still have some work on the service user i think although the cve acceleartated that a bit | 12:38 |
| bauzas | I'll just attend to act more as a liaison | 12:38 |
| bauzas | yep, gmann had a series on it | 12:38 |
| sean-k-mooney | idealy by now it shoudl be possibel to do everythign other services need to do on nova's api vai the service user | 12:38 |
| bauzas | but anyway, that's a good session for me to remember where we are and where we go | 12:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | but im not sure we are there yet | 12:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | based on the orginal timeline also we should be looking at the manager role which we have not started on | 12:39 |
| bauzas | for board session about AI generated content, I'll just attend because I'm asked to | 12:39 |
| sean-k-mooney | when is that | 12:39 |
| bauzas | but honestly I don't think this is a sortable problem by both the time we have and the people who're in | 12:39 |
| bauzas | if this is just saying "dude, you shall add a git commit tag that'd say you were lazy enough to use an AI bot", then I doubt that people will opt into it :) | 12:40 |
| bauzas | and if this is about making sure we don't hit copyrights on materials, that's not something I can solve | 12:41 |
| bauzas | this is more a licensing problem than a gerrit problem | 12:41 |
| opendevreview | Takashi Kajinami proposed openstack/nova master: Drop remaining deprecated upgrade_levels option for nova-cert https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/898613 | 12:41 |
| bauzas | so I guess the whole hour will just be about defining the scope of that discussion :) | 12:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | ai generated content is not copyrightable at least under us law | 12:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | more boadly it was establised as a leagl precidnet a few years ago that copyright can only be created for works crated by a human | 12:42 |
| bauzas | yeah I know and that's why I think this is not something solvable on our level | 12:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | that was esablised after a chim too a selfie with a photograper camra | 12:42 |
| bauzas | sean-k-mooney: the problem is more about AI generated content that infrigues copyrights due to its training model | 12:43 |
| bauzas | but again, not something TC can solve or even the board IMHO | 12:43 |
| sean-k-mooney | well they person who submits the patch is atesting that they have the rights to the code that is submited | 12:43 |
| sean-k-mooney | so in practic today that falls on the commiter to ensure they commit they authered with or without assicance is compient with the liscenes ectra | 12:44 |
| bauzas | sure, I guess the board session will be about identifying threats | 12:44 |
| sean-k-mooney | to be clear this would also apply to any non api generated content form variios tools | 12:44 |
| bauzas | yeah I had the color word in my mind | 12:45 |
| bauzas | any assistance to writing some code implies that it doesn't infrigue the copyright | 12:45 |
| artom | https://ptg2023.openinfra.dev/a/ is completely broken for me | 13:25 |
| artom | https://imgur.com/a/52vtguD | 13:26 |
| bauzas | artom: you shouldn't be looking at this website | 13:26 |
| artom | There are many things I shouldn't be doing ;) | 13:27 |
| bauzas | https://ptg.opendev.org/ptg.html is the source | 13:27 |
| artom | Thanks - annoying that that link is completely undiscoverable | 13:28 |
| artom | So Nova "proper" doesn't start until tomorrow, then | 13:28 |
| *** blarnath is now known as d34dh0r53 | 13:28 | |
| gibi | artom: yepp | 13:43 |
| gibi | today is rbac, tc, board, and similar discussions are expected | 13:44 |
| kashyap | The infra session is starting now: https://www.openstack.org/ptg/rooms/diablo | 14:00 |
| bauzas | artom: that's why I wrote an email telling about our agenda :) | 14:06 |
| artom | bauzas, not a dig at you, just frustration that literally every vPTG I have the same problem, of not being able to find the schedule and list of room from the official website | 14:24 |
| sean-k-mooney | bauzas: ill be afk for a bit but do you get where i was coming form regardign the config option | 14:31 |
| sean-k-mooney | bauzas: basically i just want to avoid having to make two call to neutron one with the service token and falling back to admin client for port binding | 14:32 |
| sean-k-mooney | so eiter we document that the nova user shoudl also have the service role | 14:32 |
| sean-k-mooney | when neutron is configured to reqiure it or we have a config option to say use_service_tokens | 14:33 |
| sean-k-mooney | in the neutron section until that becomes required | 14:33 |
| sean-k-mooney | i dont really like the documention approch since it may result in passing a token with both admin and service roles when only one of the two should be required | 14:34 |
| sean-k-mooney | but it could work | 14:34 |
| sean-k-mooney | so i would prefer a config option that told use to either use the admin client or not for the transition period | 14:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | ok ill be back at the top of the hour o/ | 14:35 |
| kashyap | Ominous, "the end times", dansmith | 14:40 |
| sean-k-mooney | oh wait there are two board calls | 15:09 |
| sean-k-mooney | did they already disucss the ai topic | 15:09 |
| bauzas | yup | 15:09 |
| bauzas | looks like all the teams are using Zoom | 15:10 |
| bauzas | so I think I'll revert to using it for tomorrow | 15:10 |
| clarkb | kolla is using meetpad | 15:11 |
| kashyap | sean-k-mooney: The etherpad captured some meeting minutes | 15:11 |
| kashyap | sean-k-mooney: It was a good discussion. (I frankly expected less signal; but there was more of it) | 15:11 |
| kashyap | ("Good", but distressing for me.) | 15:12 |
| sean-k-mooney | kashyap: ok i was going to contibnute too that but tought it was at the later slot today | 15:12 |
| sean-k-mooney | i have had good expericne useing copiolt since i paid for a one year subscriptiong in september | 15:13 |
| kashyap | sean-k-mooney: Minutes: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/oct2023-ptg-openinfra-board | 15:13 |
| sean-k-mooney | i still need to leverage my core review skill set to be critical of the suggestions it makes | 15:13 |
| kashyap | sean-k-mooney: I see. Jay Faulkner also noted his (very interesting to me) exerience w/ a paid co-pilot sub | 15:13 |
| sean-k-mooney | but for an experinced contibutor it has benifit | 15:13 |
| sean-k-mooney | ill read back the comments but i tought this was goign to happen at the na board slot at 21:00 utc | 15:14 |
| kashyap | Yeah, for very new people, he called it [generative AI] as an "extremely attractive nuisance". I'm glad there was a clear distinction between "generative AI" vs. "assissted AI" | 15:14 |
| clarkb | sean-k-mooney: it is at 21:00 as well | 15:14 |
| clarkb | there are two sessions schedueld for the topic | 15:14 |
| kashyap | I see, didn't know that | 15:15 |
| sean-k-mooney | clarkb: ah ok ill try to joint that one if im still online around that time | 15:15 |
| kashyap | s/assisted/assistive/ | 15:16 |
| hamburgler | bauzas: yes you were correct ty :) my oversight | 16:18 |
| bauzas | haleyb: good news, we do have a cross-project item ! | 16:58 |
| bauzas | haleyb: fancy finding a timeslot in common ? | 16:58 |
| haleyb | bauzas: we have timeslots on thursday, one later one on wednesday | 16:58 |
| bauzas | thursday would fit | 17:00 |
| haleyb | bauzas: thursday 15:00 ? | 17:01 |
| bauzas | wfm | 17:01 |
| bauzas | haleyb: don't you mind if we use our etherpad and our room ? | 17:01 |
| haleyb | that works, i'll add the link in our etherpad | 17:02 |
| bauzas | haleyb: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-caracal-ptg#L300https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-caracal-ptg#L59 | 17:02 |
| bauzas | doh | 17:02 |
| bauzas | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-caracal-ptg#L59 | 17:02 |
| gmann | bauzas: I added the Nova rbac service role discussion continuation at the bottom in etherpad, https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-caracal-ptg | 17:40 |
| bauzas | gmann: saw it yeah | 17:40 |
| opendevreview | Pavlo Shchelokovskyy proposed openstack/nova master: Fix image conversion check in finish_migration https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897842 | 18:23 |
| opendevreview | Pavlo Shchelokovskyy proposed openstack/nova master: Deprecate use_cow_images and 'default' images_type https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/898229 | 18:23 |
| simondodsley | Is there a way to remove a boot volume from a shutdown instance and replace it with a new boot volume (created from an earlier snapshot)? | 19:04 |
| opendevreview | Pavlo Shchelokovskyy proposed openstack/nova master: Fix image conversion check in finish_migration https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/897842 | 19:11 |
| opendevreview | Pavlo Shchelokovskyy proposed openstack/nova master: Deprecate use_cow_images and 'default' images_type https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova/+/898229 | 19:11 |
| sean-k-mooney | bauzas: there has been a very "interesting" bug that has been evolving over the last few days which i added to the ptg | 20:34 |
| sean-k-mooney | bauzas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/2038898 https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/nova-caracal-ptg#L444 | 20:34 |
| sean-k-mooney | it woudl be good to read back over that wehn you have time and for others. the reporter has done a lot of testing at my request to determinthe corrent beahvior fo nova and its very much not what i expect | 20:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | images_type=raw is still jsut an aliase fo images_type=flat and does not force convertion to raw. i was aware of th history between those two backend but i tough thwen we renamed raw to flat and added raw as an alais it woudl force image convertion but it does not | 20:36 |
| sean-k-mooney | use_qow_images=true is bacially ignored if you use images_type=flat in that it never force the vm to be qcow | 20:37 |
| sean-k-mooney | if you use image_type=default then use_qow_images=true request in us using image_type=qcow | 20:37 |
| simondodsley | Is this spec ever going to be implemented... https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/detach-boot-volume | 20:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | simondodsley: i dont belive anyone is working on it and i belvie there are still some desgin isues with enabling that | 20:43 |
| sean-k-mooney | simondodsley: so its very unlikely | 20:43 |
| simondodsley | sean-k-mooney it's a pretty fundamental requirement, especially if we want to be able to compete more with VMware. There are a lot of people looking to pivot at the moment and not having a "simple" thing like this won't help | 20:47 |
| clarkb | I think you can emulate it by booting off of a new volume and moving neutron ports over / using fips? | 20:50 |
| clarkb | that said we tend to avoid boot from volume as much as possible and instead prefering to attach volumes for persistent data and then let the OS be more ephemeral | 20:50 |
| simondodsley | clarkb: not convinced that is the main implementation when there are highly intelligent external arrays being used under cinder. All of our customers are either only using boot from volume, or are migrating to it to get away from limitations of local nova disk, or limitations of ceph | 21:03 |
| clarkb | I'm not saying its the main implementation/ I'm just giving my experience as a user. boot from volume is more problematic than the value we get out of it so we try to use volumes more explicitly for where the data lives rather than our operating systems which are actually quite ephemeral | 21:04 |
| clarkb | which is similar to how containers deal with this stuff too | 21:05 |
| clarkb | For example rescuing boot from volume instances is still a bit of an ordeal | 21:05 |
| clarkb | I shouldtest that again actually | 21:08 |
| simondodsley | using boot from volume can be highly advantagous to users as external arrays can both deduplicate and compress volumes on the array and so 100s of VMs can boot from snapshot clones of the boot image, thereby actually using only the size of the source volume on the array. | 21:13 |
| simondodsley | this is why we need features like changing the boot volume to be available. | 21:13 |
| simondodsley | yes, cinder can do restore from snapshot, but that is limited as well. | 21:14 |
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