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| slaweq | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jun 19 14:00:23 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:00 |
| slaweq | welcome :) | 14:00 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:00 |
| lajoskatona | o/ | 14:00 |
| TomStappaerts | hi | 14:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:00 |
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| slaweq | lets wait few more minutes for njohnston_ and amotoki | 14:01 |
| slaweq | as yamamoto will not be able to join today | 14:02 |
| ralonsoh | hi | 14:02 |
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| slaweq | ok, there is 3 out of 6 team members already so I think we can start | 14:05 |
| slaweq | as I said in email yesterday, I want to start with on demand agenda today | 14:05 |
| slaweq | and later continue with RFEs | 14:06 |
| slaweq | #topic On Demand Agenda | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "On Demand Agenda (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:06 | |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: Your topic here is first | 14:06 |
| ralonsoh | thanks | 14:06 |
| ralonsoh | in a nutshell | 14:06 |
| ralonsoh | I would like to use the QoS API to add a new rule type | 14:06 |
| njohnston_ | o/ | 14:06 |
| ralonsoh | numa affinity | 14:06 |
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| ralonsoh | that means a port will be spawned only in a specific numa node | 14:07 |
| ralonsoh | about yamamoto's question | 14:07 |
| ralonsoh | "is this just about having a way to pass necessary info to nova?" | 14:07 |
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| ralonsoh | yes, exactly | 14:07 |
| ralonsoh | you can create a port, with a qos and this new rule | 14:07 |
| ralonsoh | and nova will take this info to spawn the vm and the port in this numa node | 14:08 |
| ralonsoh | my question is: can we use this existing API? | 14:08 |
| ralonsoh | thanks | 14:08 |
| ralonsoh | (if you need a spec and a BP, I'll be glad to write them) | 14:09 |
| slaweq | about spec, I think we will need that to describe API changes there | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | what is the reasoning of association "numa affinity" to "qos"? | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | associating^^^ | 14:10 |
| ralonsoh | good question | 14:10 |
| lajoskatona | +1 | 14:10 |
| slaweq | what is the alternative to qos API for that? | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | in priciple, it seems we are stretching the concept of qos... | 14:10 |
| ralonsoh | I proposed qos because with this numa association, we are improving the possible throughput of those nics | 14:11 |
| ralonsoh | I know... | 14:11 |
| ralonsoh | that's why I asked frist | 14:11 |
| ralonsoh | first | 14:11 |
| ralonsoh | of course, I can create a new API for this | 14:11 |
| mlavalle | and API is a gateway to access functionality, but it is also a language, with meaning | 14:11 |
| TomStappaerts | What scenario is being solved here? Why do you need to set numa on port first, before VM is even there? (Sorry if I am not supposed to but in here :) ) | 14:12 |
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| mlavalle | I'm not saying no, I am just trying to come up with a good explanation of why we are going to stretch the semantics of this API in this way | 14:13 |
| ralonsoh | to define the numa node where the port and the vm are going to be spawn | 14:13 |
| ralonsoh | mlavalle, I had the same concerns | 14:13 |
| ralonsoh | I don't mind at all creating a new API | 14:13 |
| ralonsoh | to store this info and pass it in the port info to Nova | 14:13 |
| mlavalle | is there even a higher level abstraction that could encompass qos and numa? | 14:14 |
| mlavalle | and probably is has to do with "scheduling" | 14:15 |
| ralonsoh | as I commented, just for throughput optimization | 14:15 |
| ralonsoh | we didn't plan to add any placement update | 14:16 |
| ralonsoh | just add this info to the port to be used by nova | 14:16 |
| slaweq | ok, lets say that it would be in QoS api, so how it would looks like? I mean this new rule type what parameters it would have? | 14:16 |
| ralonsoh | just one: numa_node | 14:16 |
| mlavalle | in the case of minimum bandwidth, we are already sending info to Nova in a port attribute, right? | 14:16 |
| ralonsoh | yes | 14:17 |
| ralonsoh | (I don't have now the patch) | 14:17 |
| njohnston | So the question is, does this really pertain to QoS. I would define QoS in a network context as a network's ability to achieve maximum bandwidth for the most important data by dealing with performance elements like latency, error rate, and traffic prioritization. With that view in mind I don't think it's too much of a stretch to call this QoS. | 14:17 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: so if I will assign QoS Policy with such rule to e.g. network, all ports will have same rule, e.g. numa_node=0 | 14:18 |
| slaweq | does it makes sense at all? | 14:18 |
| ralonsoh | the user is the owner of this qos and resources | 14:18 |
| ralonsoh | but yes, if the user set a numa node in a qos policy, all resources will be attached to this numa node | 14:19 |
| ralonsoh | (not networks but ports) | 14:19 |
| njohnston | slaweq: I would think that a numa policy could only be assigned to a port, because assigning it to a network seems like an undefined concept to me | 14:19 |
| ralonsoh | exactly | 14:19 |
| slaweq | njohnston: yes, but currently QoS policy can be attached to the network | 14:19 |
| ralonsoh | this rule can be applied to a qos policy and this policy can be set in a network | 14:19 |
| ralonsoh | yes | 14:19 |
| ralonsoh | but in this case, the same as with other rules | 14:20 |
| slaweq | so because of that I tend to say - lets add new API instead of trying to reuse QoS API with some strange constraints | 14:20 |
| ralonsoh | this policy will apply to the ports | 14:20 |
| ralonsoh | no no | 14:20 |
| ralonsoh | you can't apply qos rules to a network | 14:20 |
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| ralonsoh | but those rules will be inherited by the ports | 14:20 |
| slaweq | I know that it is then inherited by ports | 14:20 |
| mlavalle | in the case of minimum bandwidth, we add to ports a "resource_request" attribute. That attribute could be used to specify a nume resource requiremente. Couldn't it? | 14:21 |
| ralonsoh | let me check | 14:21 |
| ralonsoh | well yes | 14:21 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: this attribute is currntly read only IIRC | 14:21 |
| lajoskatona | but that field is a counted one not set by user | 14:21 |
| ralonsoh | this is were I was planning to add this info | 14:21 |
| mlavalle | we could generalize it by letting the user have access to it | 14:22 |
| jkulik | What's the point in defining numa-node assignments in neutron instead of nova? What happens if a VM has multiple network ports with different numa assignments? | 14:22 |
| mlavalle | through a new API | 14:22 |
| slaweq | IMO we would need some new API with attribute like "numa_node" added to port - and internally we can put it in the "resource_request" when sending to nova | 14:22 |
| ralonsoh | jkulik, that will be handled by Nova | 14:22 |
| ralonsoh | we only provide the infop | 14:22 |
| ralonsoh | slaweq, ok | 14:22 |
| lajoskatona | if user can touch that could lead to broken info: different in qos rule than in port resource req. field | 14:23 |
| TomStappaerts | So why not just supply it to nova, as it pertains to vm placement? | 14:23 |
| lajoskatona | if user changed the values | 14:23 |
| mlavalle | slaweq: yeah, but what if in the futute we need to add something new... why don't we generalize this mechanism and we create something that could be potentially extended in the future | 14:23 |
| ralonsoh | TomStappaerts, nova can spawn a VM in any numa node, but it need also where the port is going to be created | 14:24 |
| TomStappaerts | ralonsoh: But does it make more sense to provide this at port create instead of at server create in nova? | 14:24 |
| ralonsoh | mlavalle, so you propose to have a generic container in "port" to be sent to Nova | 14:24 |
| ralonsoh | TomStappaerts, when in Neutron we create a port, we only create a register in a DB | 14:25 |
| lajoskatona | mlavalle: with extra care it can be possible but avoiding the user to change the bw (or latr whatever)allocation on port | 14:25 |
| mlavalle | ralonsoh: yeah that can solve this problem and later can be extended for other purposes | 14:25 |
| ralonsoh | TomStappaerts, we don't create anything in the backend | 14:25 |
| ralonsoh | mlavalle, ok so let me resume this | 14:25 |
| TomStappaerts | ok | 14:25 |
| ralonsoh | 1) explain how this generic container can be populated | 14:25 |
| mlavalle | summarize... resume means something else in English | 14:26 |
| ralonsoh | 2) create a new API??? | 14:26 |
| lajoskatona | we thought resource_req as such general, but at that time without the user's hands in the picture :-) | 14:26 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: You're right, and I think that we may have additional use case already with Cyborg | 14:26 |
| ralonsoh | mlavalle, sorry! | 14:26 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: see https://docs.google.com/document/d/11HkK-cLpDxa5Lku0_O0Nb8Uqh34Jqzx2N7j2aDu05T0/edit | 14:26 |
| * mlavalle undertsands perfectly well his fellow Spanish speaker ;-) | 14:26 | |
| ralonsoh | is (2) ok for you folks?? | 14:27 |
| mlavalle | yeah, we can have a new API to access and control this port attribute | 14:27 |
| ralonsoh | perfect then | 14:27 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: yes | 14:28 |
| lajoskatona | +1 | 14:28 |
| njohnston | +1 | 14:28 |
| ralonsoh | thanks a lot | 14:28 |
| slaweq | but please check this document from Cyborg, I think we can have addressed both use cases at once | 14:28 |
| ralonsoh | sure | 14:28 |
| slaweq | ok, ralonsoh so please propose a spec for that | 14:28 |
| slaweq | and I think that also RFE would be good for tracking purpose :) | 14:29 |
| ralonsoh | of course | 14:29 |
| slaweq | ok, I think we can move on | 14:29 |
| slaweq | next item (quick I hope) is from me | 14:29 |
| slaweq | We are deprecating neutron-fwaas. What with the API-REF? It's question from the ML http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-June/015508.html | 14:30 |
| slaweq | My understanding is that we should deprecate fwaas api too | 14:30 |
| slaweq | but I wanted to hear opinions from You also | 14:30 |
| njohnston | I think amotoki’s answer is correct and definitive. | 14:30 |
| jkulik | this would mean, that official openstack clients don't include that API anymore, right? | 14:31 |
| njohnston | fwaas api is part and parcel of fwaas and lives or dies with it. | 14:31 |
| njohnston | jkulik: correct | 14:31 |
| seba | so, what would my options be if I have this api implemented in my custom network driver? maintain the API myself? move it into an extra project? | 14:31 |
| slaweq | jkulik: I'm not sure about OSC as this API is still in stable branches which are supported | 14:32 |
| jkulik | slaweq, but we have to anticipate it getting removed at some point in time - even if that time is a couple year. | 14:32 |
| slaweq | jkulik: yes | 14:32 |
| njohnston | does your implementation require any of the fwaas plugin code in neutron that was a part of the neutron-fwaas repo? | 14:32 |
| slaweq | IMO that is what will happen with it | 14:33 |
| lajoskatona | Isn't that possibe to make fwaas a pure API, like bgpvpn, but without backend implementation< | 14:33 |
| lajoskatona | ? | 14:33 |
| slaweq | lajoskatona: do You mean to keep API definition in the neutron-lib? | 14:33 |
| slaweq | or what? | 14:33 |
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| mlavalle | that's an intresting idea | 14:33 |
| lajoskatona | yes and Db (and whatever) in fwaas but without actually doing backend things | 14:34 |
| lajoskatona | and let the possible users, maintainers to do the implementation with SDN or whatever project | 14:34 |
| njohnston | I was going to say, we have not removed the API definition (yet); as long as you depend on zero code from the actual implementation of that API you could slip in and run it, we could leave it there. I would want to amend the API ref document. | 14:34 |
| mlavalle | and this way we keep serving a wider community | 14:35 |
| jkulik | we haven't started implementing it, but it would probably only depend on the APIs being available to our customers | 14:35 |
| mlavalle | who have trusted us | 14:35 |
| jkulik | with a wide range of openstack client libraries, this would only be possible if the API is still documented as supported, I'd guess. | 14:36 |
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| njohnston | jkulik: I think here is how the process would go: you would create a new repo in the x/ namespace for your project, that implements everything that neutron-fwaas does. If you want to revivie neutron-fwaas that is fine, but support of it is yours. We can keep the API and OSC bits, and we clearly indicate that the backend to implement them is your project. | 14:38 |
| slaweq | yeah, I think that this can work and we may leave this API definition in neutron-lib as "official" API | 14:39 |
| jkulik | ok. sounds fine | 14:39 |
| slaweq | but write in api-ref document that Neutron is NOT providing any official implementation of this API | 14:40 |
| slaweq | njohnston: mlavalle lajoskatona is that what You meant? | 14:40 |
| njohnston | yes | 14:40 |
| mlavalle | +1 | 14:40 |
| njohnston | jkulik: will you be integrating with ML2/OVS, OVN, or a different ML2 plugin? | 14:40 |
| lajoskatona | yes | 14:40 |
| slaweq | ok, I will summarize that in the thread on ML today | 14:41 |
| seba | jkulik and I have a custom cisco asr1k driver. fwaas should be realized also on this device | 14:41 |
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| slaweq | and I will also propose patch to api-ref to include this note there | 14:41 |
| seba | the asr1k driver contains an l3 driver and an ml2 plugin | 14:42 |
| njohnston | seba: Excellent, so you don't need any of the fwaas bits that plugged in to the ML2/OVS agent or l3 agent. | 14:42 |
| njohnston | I am +1 for this approach overall | 14:43 |
| slaweq | haleyb: any ideas? I think we need Your vote too :) | 14:43 |
| seba | njohnston, exactly, we only need to be called by neutron (and our users need the api availability to use things like the official openstack cli client to use the api) | 14:44 |
| slaweq | haleyb: maybe better question is "any thoughts?" :) | 14:45 |
| haleyb | slaweq: +1 from me | 14:45 |
| slaweq | great :) | 14:45 |
| njohnston | fwaas has died, fwaas is risen, fwaas will come again | 14:45 |
| slaweq | njohnston: :) | 14:45 |
| slaweq | ok, so lets now talk about some RFEs | 14:45 |
| jkulik | thank you | 14:45 |
| slaweq | #topic RFEs | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:45 | |
| slaweq | as we have TomStappaerts here, lets start with https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1751040 | 14:46 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1751040 in neutron "[RFE] Extended resources should not always calculate all attributes" [Wishlist,Confirmed] | 14:46 |
| TomStappaerts | Hi | 14:46 |
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| njohnston | I think this is a fantastic idea. We definitely see that with each OSP version generally speaking Neutron seems to get slower for basic operations like list ports, and I think the resource extension framework is where the slowdown lies. | 14:48 |
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| TomStappaerts | The core problem for us as SDN provider is here that we cannot go to our SDN for every single port during listing as that would take ages and ages | 14:49 |
| TomStappaerts | So we would only do that when "requested" | 14:50 |
| slaweq | so is my understanding correct that it's something like e.g. when I do neutron port-list -c id -c fixed_ips neutron will not call e.g. QoS extension to check QoS policy for those ports? | 14:50 |
| slaweq | as it's not needed at all in the result | 14:50 |
| TomStappaerts | That would be the idea | 14:50 |
| njohnston | TomStappaerts: Would it help if there was a bulk resource extend call that would take an array of ports so you could do it once instead of N times? | 14:50 |
| njohnston | (note: bulk resource extend could be in addition to this RFE, it doesn't take away from the value of this RFE in my mind) | 14:51 |
| TomStappaerts | njohnston: It would help indeed, one way it would help is that in that case we do not go to SDN or only do it for resources that can be gotten in bulk. But that is not this rfe indeed. | 14:51 |
| * njohnston was just brainstorming | 14:52 | |
| slaweq | TomStappaerts: one more question, do You plan to implement that in this cycle if we will approve RFE? | 14:53 |
| TomStappaerts | We don't have any bandwidth in our team atm though, so I am able to join brainstorming and review but implementation itself I just don't have the time (read employer has other priorities). | 14:53 |
| mlavalle | oh yeah. employers do that some times ;-) | 14:53 |
| slaweq | yes, I know | 14:53 |
| slaweq | just asking :) | 14:53 |
| slaweq | I'm ok to approve this RFE as an idea. But I don't think we will implement it fast :/ | 14:54 |
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| mlavalle | yes, let's approve it and we can revisit in a few months | 14:55 |
| TomStappaerts | That is fine initially I think, If there is community support I can keep bringing it up here too; that it won't be wasted effort because no one wants it. | 14:55 |
| njohnston | +1 from me, and yes let's not target to a release. If anyone is getting interns it'd be a great research project. | 14:55 |
| slaweq | haleyb: any thoughts? | 14:56 |
| haleyb | slaweq: +1 from me | 14:57 |
| slaweq | thx :) | 14:57 |
| * haleyb isn't thinking much at the moment | 14:57 | |
| slaweq | so I will mark this RFE as approved after the meeting | 14:57 |
| slaweq | as we have only 2 minutes left I don't think we can really start next RFE today | 14:58 |
| slaweq | so lets move other 2 for next week | 14:58 |
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| slaweq | thx for attending the meeting and have a great weekend :) | 14:58 |
| njohnston | good discussions all | 14:58 |
| njohnston | thanks | 14:58 |
| slaweq | see You all on Monday | 14:58 |
| ralonsoh | you too | 14:58 |
| ralonsoh | bye | 14:58 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:58 |
| lajoskatona | bye | 14:58 |
| slaweq | #endmeeting | 14:58 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jun 19 14:58:53 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:58 |
| slaweq | o/ | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-06-19-14.00.html | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-06-19-14.00.txt | 14:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-06-19-14.00.log.html | 14:58 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:59 |
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