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| efried | #startmeeting nova | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 6 14:00:46 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is efried. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 14:00 |
| *** diablo_rojo__ is now known as diablo_rojo | 14:00 | |
| bauzas | \o (in 1:1 meeting also) | 14:00 |
| alex_xu | o/ | 14:01 |
| huaqiang | o/ | 14:01 |
| gmann | o/ (in TC meeting also ) | 14:01 |
| efried | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova#Weekly_Nova_team_meeting | 14:02 |
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| brinzhang | o/ | 14:03 |
| efried | #topic Last meeting | 14:03 |
| efried | #link Minutes from last meeting: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2020/nova.2020-01-30-21.00.html | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Last meeting (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:03 | |
| sean-k-mooney | o/ | 14:03 |
| efried | We had some action items from last time... | 14:03 |
| efried | ACTION: sean-k-mooney to do the train implemented specs business | 14:03 |
| sean-k-mooney | damit ill do that now | 14:03 |
| efried | :) Thanks | 14:04 |
| efried | ACTION: lyarwood to propose train & stein releases | 14:04 |
| lyarwood | ^ is done and released | 14:04 |
| efried | this got done. I think I saw both merged today. | 14:04 |
| lyarwood | yup | 14:04 |
| efried | Thanks lyarwood | 14:04 |
| lyarwood | np | 14:04 |
| efried | ACTION: lyarwood to curate rocky EM list | 14:04 |
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| lyarwood | ^ this hasn't started due to stable/rocky being blocked by tempest issues | 14:05 |
| lyarwood | once these pass I'll get on with this | 14:05 |
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| efried | great, thanks. | 14:06 |
| efried | #topic Bugs (stuck/critical) | 14:06 |
| efried | No Critical bugs | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (stuck/critical) (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:06 | |
| efried | However, the other bug numbers (see project heartbeat) have been creeping up | 14:06 |
| efried | #help triage bugs! | 14:06 |
| brinzhang | can we close this bug fix https://review.opendev.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bug/1663456 | 14:07 |
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| efried | stephenfin: that ^ was where dansmith had jumped in and redirected at some point, right? | 14:08 |
| efried | so he should probably be the +A? | 14:08 |
| efried | brinzhang: let's follow up on that in the main channel when dansmith is about. | 14:09 |
| efried | #topic Reminders | 14:09 |
| efried | SPEC FREEZE IS NEXT WEEK | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminders (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:09 | |
| brinzhang | yeah, that need get dansmith's comments | 14:09 |
| efried | Last week I scrubbed the | 14:10 |
| efried | #link ussuri blueprints https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/ussuri | 14:10 |
| efried | and the specs I could find | 14:10 |
| efried | #link etherpad (feel free to leave notes etc.) https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-ussuri-planning | 14:11 |
| efried | I've been making noise about scrubbing the list once we pass the milestone. | 14:11 |
| efried | As a reminder, this would be an exercise where we make up *some* kind of criteria to pick which blueprints we're going to pursue and which we're going to defer for Ussuri. | 14:12 |
| efried | Right now we have 41 blueprints against ussuri, of which seven are already implemented. | 14:13 |
| efried | IMHO, given the size of the team, that's too many to land | 14:13 |
| efried | but 20 are still not design:approved at this point, so I'm guessing we'll be starting with a smaller number anyway. | 14:15 |
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| efried | Probably a good idea to set up a spec review day for early next week. Tuesday work for everyone? | 14:15 |
| sean-k-mooney | so 21 are design approve and 7 of those are done | 14:15 |
| efried | yes | 14:15 |
| sean-k-mooney | leaveing 14 remaining | 14:15 |
| gmann | design approve means spec not merged right? I always get confused with LP mapping | 14:15 |
| gmann | *design not approve | 14:16 |
| efried | sorry gmann, it's a new thing. Yes, when we merge the spec we change the blueprint to design:approved. | 14:16 |
| bauzas | efried: count me on it | 14:16 |
| efried | for specless blueprints we can change to design:approved once we have agreement on the *how*. | 14:16 |
| efried | direction:approved speaks to the *when* | 14:17 |
| sean-k-mooney | https://review.opendev.org/#/c/706276/ is the review to update the implemented spec in train by the way | 14:17 |
| efried | #action efried to ML about spec scrub day | 14:17 |
| gmann | efriedok, yeah you old last time also but somehow i forget | 14:17 |
| brinzhang | there is a spec, I think it's ready to go, I sended ML of this spec https://review.opendev.org/#/c/623120/, ML:http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012352.html | 14:17 |
| efried | thanks sean-k-mooney | 14:17 |
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| efried | Probably given who's here (and not here) it'll be best to take specific spec review requests/discussions offline. | 14:18 |
| gmann | +1 | 14:18 |
| efried | anything else, process-wise, about spec freeze? | 14:19 |
| efried | Rocky EM (lyarwood) | 14:19 |
| efried | #link open rocky patches https://review.opendev.org/#/q/status:open+(project:openstack/os-vif+OR+project:openstack/python-novaclient+OR+project:openstack/nova)+branch:stable/rocky | 14:19 |
| efried | we already talked about this. | 14:19 |
| efried | #topic PTG/Summit planning | 14:20 |
| efried | Please mark **attendance** and topics on | 14:20 |
| efried | #link PTG etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-victoria-ptg | 14:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG/Summit planning (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:20 | |
| efried | I've been asked to fill out the survey thingy to let the planners know how much space we're going to need, so please do at least the attendance bit of that ^ as soon as you can. | 14:20 |
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| efried | Tough to say based on the shanghai PTG, but how big a room do folks think we'll need? | 14:21 |
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| brinzhang | I think at least 15 people sits :P | 14:22 |
| efried | agree; that would seem to be the bare minimum to me. | 14:23 |
| gmann | it was more dynamic attendance also, so expected +5 should be counted | 14:23 |
| sean-k-mooney | that would cover the active memebers barely | 14:23 |
| brinzhang | agree | 14:23 |
| sean-k-mooney | if we want to be able to have a cross team meeing in the nova room | 14:24 |
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| efried | the layout options jump from 20 to 40, which is weird, I would expect us to be somewhere in between at max capacity. I guess I'll ask for the bigger one. | 14:24 |
| efried | yeah, good call | 14:24 |
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| efried | okay, moving on. | 14:24 |
| efried | #topic Sub/related team Highlights | 14:24 |
| efried | Placement (tetsuro) | 14:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Sub/related team Highlights (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:24 | |
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| efried | I think the only thing going here is consumer types, which tetsuro and melwitt have been working through. | 14:25 |
| efried | There was some discussion about whether we should try to close the gaps in anti-affinity expressiveness so we can cover a few remaining corner cases in NUMA modeling. | 14:25 |
| efried | but I think we agreed that could be deferred, right sean-k-mooney bauzas? | 14:26 |
| bauzas | correct, PCI devices affinity can't be done in Ussuri | 14:26 |
| sean-k-mooney | we could defer if we keep the numa toplogy filter to check the numa of numa nodes | 14:26 |
| bauzas | (at least from me) | 14:26 |
| efried | for now we'll use group_policy=none and let the NTF do the anti-affinity | 14:26 |
| sean-k-mooney | yep | 14:26 |
| efried | we're not talking about devices yet. | 14:26 |
| efried | okay | 14:26 |
| efried | API (gmann) | 14:27 |
| efried | gmann did not send the updated report this week. Last updates on ML: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-January/012260.html | 14:27 |
| gmann | i did not get chance to send updates on ML. But working on few API spec review and policy work. | 14:27 |
| gmann | i will appreciate review on this - #link https://review.opendev.org/#/q/project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/policy-defaults-refresh | 14:27 |
| gmann | changes are easy and on same line as first set of os-service API merged | 14:27 |
| gmann | I will be pushing more API changes soon once bring up the stable gate up | 14:28 |
| gmann | that's all from my side | 14:28 |
| sean-k-mooney | gmann: that review of the code not the spec right | 14:28 |
| sean-k-mooney | the design is already approved | 14:28 |
| gmann | sean-k-mooney yes, code | 14:28 |
| sean-k-mooney | cool | 14:28 |
| gmann | first set of changes also merged with agreement with john and how we should do for other APIs | 14:29 |
| efried | ready to move on? | 14:29 |
| efried | #topic Stuck Reviews | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stuck Reviews (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:30 | |
| efried | [huaqiang] the spec 'mixed cpu policy instance spec' still needs more input | 14:30 |
| efried | #link Use PCPU and VCPU in one instance : https://review.opendev.org/#/c/668656/ | 14:30 |
| efried | placement-ess style interface ('resources:(P|V)CPU') vs legacy flavor style (eg: 'hw(:|_)numa_pinned_cpus') interface through a CPU mask | 14:30 |
| efried | we've been back and forth on this one. | 14:30 |
| stephenfin | I think that needs dansmith to resolve | 14:30 |
| huaqiang | stephen gives a -1 | 14:30 |
| huaqiang | he recomends the legacy flavor style interface | 14:31 |
| dansmith | it does? | 14:31 |
| efried | by the way, I thought the design work for NUMA topo brought out some great examples of why we should prefer the hw: style over the placement syntax. | 14:31 |
| stephenfin | dansmith: Yup. fwict, you're asking for us to mix placement-style syntax with traditional extra specs. I absolutely don't want that | 14:31 |
| dansmith | sounds like there's no room for compromise, and I'm not even -1 on that spec, so .. not much to discuss I guess? | 14:32 |
| stephenfin | I was guessing you'd a good reason for preferring the thing I don't like | 14:33 |
| sean-k-mooney | well at one point supporting both was an option. | 14:33 |
| stephenfin | Yup, I'm fine with that too | 14:33 |
| alex_xu | ok for support both too | 14:33 |
| stephenfin | just not bits of one style and bits of another | 14:33 |
| bauzas | the consensus on the NUMA topology spec is to *not* ask for placement-ished flavor syntax | 14:33 |
| sean-k-mooney | yes | 14:34 |
| bauzas | we'll provide a translation mechanism | 14:34 |
| bauzas | but | 14:34 |
| bauzas | the question remains, should we block flavors already expressing placement-esque ? | 14:34 |
| stephenfin | let's figure that out in that spec | 14:34 |
| bauzas | because I'd like to see the same agreement for huaqiang's spec | 14:34 |
| stephenfin | oh, okay | 14:35 |
| efried | I don't especially have a problem if the code supports the placement-ese syntax, but IMO we should not encourage it. IOW we should document the other way for any given feature. | 14:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | i think that is a seperate question. i spoke to dansmith about this and i think long term no we dont block | 14:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | but i would not encurage the use of groups | 14:35 |
| bauzas | if we say that operators are enough grown-up for using placement-esque syntaxes, then we aslo agree that the translation mechanism is just for legacy reasons | 14:35 |
| sean-k-mooney | and we need to consider evolving the current support to add a translation layer for the plamcenet syntax | 14:35 |
| stephenfin | I've no objections to someone doing e.g. '... --propety resources:PCPU=N --property resources:VCPU=M' | 14:36 |
| bauzas | right, that's why I tie the two specs together | 14:36 |
| stephenfin | not sure how useful it is but if people want it, why not | 14:36 |
| bauzas | we're talking of flavor extra specs | 14:36 |
| efried | yes | 14:36 |
| sean-k-mooney | the only point i object to for placement syntax is using it to expres toplogy via groups | 14:36 |
| stephenfin | but I disallowed '--property hw:cpu_policy=<anything> --property:(V|P)CPU=<anything>' for cpu-resources | 14:36 |
| stephenfin | and I still think disallowing that makes sense | 14:37 |
| bauzas | stephenfin: if you're okay with validating the craziness of it with your own spec, then okay :) | 14:37 |
| dansmith | my major complaint is that we have a hundred bespoke DSLs encoded into 255 characters with little consistency, and that we are (IMHO) reversing course on the preferred way to specify those things. I want it to be highly abstract and consistent, and placement syntax is at least a step in that direction | 14:37 |
| dansmith | but I think that's the thing that most of you actually want, because it's easier on *us* instead of the *users* | 14:37 |
| bauzas | I think we have a way to restrict the fooliness of extra specs with stephenfin's spec about flavor validation | 14:37 |
| efried | it's the abstract-ness I have a problem with, exactly because it's harder on the users. | 14:37 |
| dansmith | yes, well, we disagree obviously | 14:37 |
| stephenfin | dansmith: what's easier on us? the legacy extra spec stuff? | 14:38 |
| bauzas | honestly, the current NUMA extra specs are a poor DSL | 14:38 |
| dansmith | anyway, I said _many_ times in the original conversation that I would not block on this, and haven't even lodged a -1 so I'm not sure why we're talking about this | 14:38 |
| bauzas | I'd prefer placement-esque syntax | 14:38 |
| efried | with hw:* only *we* have to understand the shape of the provider model. With resources:* etc, the *user* would have to understand it. And how placement works. | 14:38 |
| bauzas | butg | 14:38 |
| alex_xu | DSL is an abstract which is better than placement synatx | 14:38 |
| alex_xu | numa vs a set of request groups... | 14:38 |
| bauzas | but, between a standard alloc candidates query and a larger one asking for in_tree and member_of, there is a big change | 14:39 |
| stephenfin | ah, then we can move on. I just didn't want huaqiang rewriting stuff only to have to undo it again | 14:39 |
| efried | ++ | 14:39 |
| bauzas | we can move on, but the question remains | 14:39 |
| huaqiang | seems I can move on now... | 14:39 |
| bauzas | and I'd appreciate we get a consensus on this either in the NUMA topology spec or in the huaqiang's spec | 14:39 |
| alex_xu | what about the bitmask? | 14:40 |
| alex_xu | huaqiang: ^ that is still question? | 14:40 |
| sean-k-mooney | we are goign to support that right? | 14:40 |
| stephenfin | alex_xu: I _think_ that's what huaqiang is suggesting still, yeah | 14:40 |
| alex_xu | ok cool | 14:40 |
| huaqiang | I like the cpu mask solution | 14:40 |
| brinzhang | agree | 14:40 |
| alex_xu | yea, me too, just want to ensure | 14:41 |
| sean-k-mooney | that is consitent with the numa toplogy in plamcent spec too | 14:41 |
| sean-k-mooney | we shoudl revisit the question of placement syntax as a ptg topic i think | 14:41 |
| stephenfin | good idea | 14:42 |
| huaqiang | actually sean-k-money offers a good comments on cpu mask interface I'll follow that | 14:42 |
| sean-k-mooney | efried: i thnk we can move to the next topic | 14:43 |
| efried | #topic Open discussion | 14:43 |
| efried | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/config-tsc-freq | 14:43 |
| efried | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/invtsc | 14:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:43 | |
| efried | umbSublime: ^ | 14:43 |
| efried | proposal is to add the ability to expose an invariant tsc cpu flag and specify the frequency to allow live migration. | 14:43 |
| efried | we previously discussed this and said it could be a specless blueprint if the blueprint content was sufficient. do we agree that it is? | 14:43 |
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| sean-k-mooney | so looking the blueprint it has nto been updated yet but the proposed text is in the etherpad | 14:44 |
| sean-k-mooney | umbSublime: could you summerise you usecase for this | 14:45 |
| umbSublime | Yes, in our openstack platform we host many game servers, some only run on windows VMs and require this flag to be present. If it isn't the process either crashes or the game server is really slow because it relies on another clock | 14:46 |
| sean-k-mooney | am i correct in saying you currently work around this with the cpu_extra_flags config option | 14:47 |
| sean-k-mooney | but that approch causes issues since you cannot live migrate for maintance | 14:47 |
| umbSublime | My work-around it to manually virsh edit the VM after it's lauched, but obvisouly that doesn't persist any operations and I also loose the ability to live-migrate | 14:47 |
| dansmith | this seems like a straightforward spec.. does it need discussion? | 14:48 |
| brinzhang | yeah, that's need a spec | 14:49 |
| sean-k-mooney | we had said it could be adress specless if we agreed the blueprint contianed the enough info | 14:49 |
| sean-k-mooney | back in november | 14:49 |
| sean-k-mooney | but if it needs a spec it would noe be hard to submit it and fill out the remaining parts of the template | 14:49 |
| dansmith | it adds two new extra_specs, image props, and some virt specific behavior..seems like a spec to me | 14:49 |
| stephenfin | agreed | 14:50 |
| sean-k-mooney | ok umbSublime if that is ok with you ill help you prepare that | 14:50 |
| umbSublime | sure this is fine with me | 14:51 |
| huaqiang | only allow to migrate on hosts with same TSC frequency? | 14:51 |
| efried | #agreed need spec for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/config-tsc-freq | 14:51 |
| brinzhang | huaqiang: I think so | 14:51 |
| dansmith | huaqiang: isn't the tsc frequency specified in the flavor/image? | 14:51 |
| dansmith | huaqiang: if you need to inspect something about the host like that, it will be a much larger effort | 14:51 |
| huaqiang | dansmith: I don't need it, just curious about the answer. | 14:52 |
| huaqiang | some CPUs with differnt model has same TSC | 14:52 |
| sean-k-mooney | huaqiang: not the tsc frequecse is not the host tsc frequence | 14:52 |
| sean-k-mooney | its the emulated frequency | 14:52 |
| dansmith | huaqiang: I'm confused.. what happens if you migrate to a host with a cpu that isn't compatible? | 14:53 |
| dansmith | and how do you know? | 14:53 |
| umbSublime | KVM does some math based on the TSC value presented to the VM and the one on the host. to present an invariant TSC to them VM even after migrating to another host with different base freq | 14:53 |
| dansmith | sean-k-mooney: right, I thought it was pure emulation | 14:53 |
| dansmith | right, okay... | 14:53 |
| sean-k-mooney | well its usign https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/9/28/15 | 14:53 |
| sean-k-mooney | anyway we can call that out in the spec i guess | 14:54 |
| efried | Note that time is short here. In order to have a shot, I think the spec should be ready for serious review by start of business Tuesday for the review push | 14:54 |
| efried | Any other open topics before we end? | 14:54 |
| efried | Okay, thanks all. | 14:55 |
| efried | o/ | 14:55 |
| efried | #endmeeting | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 6 14:55:10 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2020/nova.2020-02-06-14.00.html | 14:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2020/nova.2020-02-06-14.00.txt | 14:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2020/nova.2020-02-06-14.00.log.html | 14:55 |
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